for clarity in an earlier post Squidge stated "you WILL BE GIVEN the absolute right to stay here"
Why should he be given the right to stay when he already has the right to stay as things stand now?
W.A.T.P.
You are right "be given" is perhaps the wrong phrase and it is my phrase so if Ducato and mi16 or anyone else is offended by that phrase then that's my fault. So let's take it away from the shrieking hysteria that often accompanies discussions on nationality and residence and get down to FACTS.
Fact - The white paper says that everyone living in Scotland at independence will automatically have the right to Scottish citizenship and residency. English, Scottish, Polish, Pakistani, Indian etc etc
Fact - This will not replace your British, Polish, German, French Lebanese etc etc citizenship but will be additional.
Example - I am English, born in England. I have no Scottish ancestry. The day before independence I will be English, a British citizen and an EU citizen living in Scotland as is my right as a British citizen and EU citizen. The day Scotland becomes independent I will be English, a British Citizen, an EU citizen living in an Independent Scotland as is my right as a British and EU citizen living here.The only difference is that on Independence Day I can choose to ALSO be a Scottish citizen if I want.
Fact - The right of residency is not changing one iota.
Fact - The only change is that I can choose to have something else as well.
Opinion - I probably won't to be honest. I don't feel any need to have a Scottish passport. I don't identify myself as Scottish although I do identify myself as one of Scotland's people because I live here and I am invested in this country. I will always be English and British and just like my English and British parents and sister who live in an independent France, I don't see any conflict between the place I was born and the place I live. I do however accept that this issue appears to be fundamentally important for Ducati.
Last edited by squidge; 25-Apr-14 at 14:17.
not offended in any shape or form, just put the completely wrong way.
W.A.T.P.
Good and sorry
no worries
W.A.T.P.
Golach honey you should try to keep up. I responded to previous posts. I absented myself from the thread to start with but as it was clear the thread had changed and moved on without me it seemed to be appropriate to respond to the questions being asked. Which as you know is what I always try to do pleasantly and politely.
Just want clarify this,I don't see anything else in the white paper Part 3 only referring to "Habitual residents will be Scottish citizens",nothing to say I can keep my identity at all,maybe its just me not understanding something.
Their is no other detail unless there is another white paper.
It's page 271 onwards Geoff - it says
"At the point of independence, this Government proposes an
inclusive model of citizenship for people whether or not they
define themselves as primarily or exclusively Scottish or wish
to become a Scottish passport holder. People in Scotland are
accustomed to multiple identities, be they national, regional,
ethnic, linguistic or religious, and a commitment to a multicultural
Scotland will be a cornerstone of the nation on
independence.
We plan that British citizens habitually resident in Scotland
on independence will be considered Scottish citizens. This will
include British citizens who hold dual citizenship with another
country."
It then goes on to say that
"The UK allows dual or multiple citizenship for British citizens.
If a British citizen acquires citizenship and a passport of another
country, this does not affect their British citizenship, right to
hold a British passport or right to live in the UK. The Scottish
Government will also allow dual citizenship."
There are also a series of questions with answers on citizenship from page 495 onwards - questions number 372 to 379 and following that there are questions on passports.
It is worth also knowing that the UK Border Agency leaflet BN18 - Information about dual nationality says this
"A person is a dual national if he or she holds more than one nationality or citizenship at the same time. There are normally no restrictions, in United Kingdom law, on British nationals having the citizenship of one or more other countries as well. So you will not need to give up any other nationality if you become British (but see paragraphs 2 - 4 below). Similarly, if you are a British national and you acquire another nationality, you will not normally lose your British nationality."
The "normally" refers to situations where the country you become a citizen of requires you to give up your British citizenship as a seperate issue from the law in the UK. UK law allows you to have dual citizenship with ANY other country in the world. Given that this is the case although the White paper says
" It will be for the
rest of the UK to decide whether it allows dual UK/Scottish
citizenship, but we expect the normal rules to extend to
Scottish citizens."
any suggestion therefore that the UK would deny Dual Citizenship to British Citizens living in Scotland is frankly laughable
Hope that helps Geoff
Here we go again, a thread entitled Why are you voting no, being taken over by Squidge, and her pro Eck propaganda. Squidge as nice as I know you are, take your propaganda to a thread that covers the pro independence discussions. Just stop stealing our Pro NO threads
Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more
Golach, sweetheart, I am answering what is being asked. That's all. I stayed away when the thread was about why people are voting no and only once they stopped simply saying why they were voting no and began asking questions did I come back to the thread. Don't want to read my stuff then block my posts but I WILL answer questions Golach if they are asked - you know me well enough to know that. People need to be informed however they vote. Propaganda? Maybe. But references are as they say, available on request if not included in post.
I am also voting No because as an Englishman I find it is my duty to keep the Union together so that UK decisions are determined in Parliament on English terms and conditions rather than on a federal basis because English MPs will swamp out the voices of the rest of the MPs.
Last edited by Rheghead; 25-Apr-14 at 17:49.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
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