Have you never heard the saying, you can here the wind, but you cannot see it. cameron the great pretender, great to see the vast difference in the pole, just a snippet of the real thing we hope.
IN
OUT
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."
Have you never heard the saying, you can here the wind, but you cannot see it. cameron the great pretender, great to see the vast difference in the pole, just a snippet of the real thing we hope.
Cameron is Pro EU but for a reformed EU and is taking a huge gamble, he has to be seen to do something to negotiate better terms for UK in EU ( well over due ) but historically a large section of his party are anti EU, no matter what he secures it doesnt matter, as he wont have their support, as for the country at large, people will see the issue as nationalist and not european, if polls work out as predicted then the vote will well be for out, so Camerons "vision" is rejected by a large swathe of his own party and the public at large, he will be toast as his creditibility will be shot.............. bye bye Cameron hello Gideon or Boris take yer pick
Camerons cronies must be handing out waterproofs to those EU leaders to save them from drowning in the SWEAT streaming off Cameron. Never have I seen a World Leader look so bad, looks more like a man searching for a llifeboat. Heres hoping he gets the same stone filled life belt, he's happily thrown to many of he own people.
Last edited by dozy; 18-Feb-16 at 21:32.
Aye right enough. That Thatcher fellow really screwed things up at Waterloo.
Waterloo eh? we won that one!.. Obviously you've not been following all this, try watching Euronews, France24, even RT instead of the Sun or maybe Morning Star.. I'm pretty certain that the Country WILL vote to stay in, I was concerned about the Human Rights act and the mention that The British Bill of Rights would replace it, so wrote to the Central Correspondence team The Ministry of Justice in Petty France, and they very nicely wrote back, which certainly put my mind at rest.. Whatever way it goes, David will still be running the show until the next election.. Anyway I'm off to Italy tomorrow, might find out what the Italians think!
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."
Well what Cameron has publicallly said he wanted from EU will be considerably watered down as talks are proving very difficult, some countries in EU are taking a nationalistic view on the whole matter no matter what Cameron says, hence his sweat, if he does get a deal, he will then call a referendum and present the spin to the public, issue is the majority of the UK public will not "get" Camerons reforms and see the vote purely on narrow nationalistic terms ( migration, right to entry to UK, welfare benefits period ) and not the bigger picture, thats why I think an out vote will be achieved. Me, ..stay in dont sacrifice EU to please little englander tory dissidents and hold onto power.
Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
Muhammad Ali
Narrow minded oh really well, plenty of like minded people abound ? Ive just heard the news and an ex EU MP is trumpeting on about Camerons high stakes gamble re EU reforms, challenging the reasoning and being upfront on the fact that the entire exercise is aimed at placating the anti EU wing of his own party ( tories ) and Cameron risks UK pulling out as the issues no matter how he spins them, will only be seen from a nationalistic view point and not a wider EU perspective, as I said earlier anti EU attititide in Tory party has been uppermost prevalent since majors premiership. Its a fact that polls record out as being predominatly english, though a % of Scots want out just as a % of Welsh etc but polls suggest Scotland is very pro EU. Im no Scottish nationalist and I use the term little englander towards narrow minded anti EU folk, although I accept that England has a hell of a lot of migrants etc than Scotland and anti migrant feelings run high there. Where does the UKIP vote come from ? DO you think UKIP voters will vote to stay in..no...and theres a lot of them about, they might not have gained any power at a first past the post election but a referedum is entiely different. Time will out as they say but the snake oil sales man I rather suspect is going to get a bloody nose on EU. AS we speak theres still no deal either ! For the record I am pro UK / anti indy and want UK in EU !
Last edited by rob murray; 19-Feb-16 at 13:35.
I voted for independence (not SNP supporter) but I think it better to be out of the EU and part of the UK than be in an independent Scotland and governed by the EU instead of Westminster . The whole EU thing is just cover for Germany to take over Europe through political means instead of war this time
The ex EU mp must be one of the ones you can name, me personally couldn't name my European MP or any other and I doubt 80% (guesstimate) of the UK could either that is how important they are, the EU has had its chance but it is out of control of the ordinary folk that voted for the original recipe now find it has grown to be a menu that is completely unpalatable. Cameron is giving it his best shot but I did not think he was very optimistic from the start but was backed into it to save face and have the referendum he promised in the previous elections but didn't and he blamed the LIB Dem lot but has no one to blame this time so a referendum we will have at last. As for the term you use "little englander" as narrow minded folk, I presume because you don't agree with them, and anti EU folk is just daft do you call the 70 odd % on this Poll being of the same ilk ? there will be a few upset if so. It is not just immigration that people want away for, ask around you might be surprised as to the other reasons than the narrow minded view it is about immigration only.
Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
Muhammad Ali
If the deal isnt what WE want and we come out do we get to close the tunnel so that the French dont make it a pathway to the UK
Ok I'll drop the litttle englander tag I respect it doesnt apply on this local thread but it is a common media term for narrow minded anti EU people ( uKIP ? ), I didnt make the term it up. Cameron will announce the referendum date today, and cabinet ministers will declare their hands, so we will see pretty soon what will happen come what may
If someone wants 'ever closer links to the EU' then there is nothing to vote for in this referendum.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
23rd of June is the date.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
rob I am no little Englander have lived in Scotland all of my 71 years ,and I will be voting to leave , when we had the vote about becoming a member in the first place I voted no
and by the way I am not a tory voter
I voted for the Referendum party in 1997 with a view to get to where we are now, having a referendum and then vote to leave. Back then was the right time to leave before we got too involved into the EU. I still feel the same way but I also feel that because we are too involved into the EU that we may damage ourselves more by leaving than by staying. It is a tricky one, and one which I will decide by the heart rather than by the head. Probably about 10 seconds before I walk into the booth. Though if during this campaign one side is obviously being thin with the truth then I will vote for the other side. I will be watching sites like Fullfact with extra diligence to help me make that decision.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
Blinking heck Reggie, although I'm down in Edinburgh ready for flight to Italy, I am impressed with your honesty! - not often I give you kudos over all these years, but I do now.. I must admit over the last week I have agonised which way to go, one second 100% for staying in, and then 100% for out.. Give him his due, Cameron has flogged his guts out - 99% of the European papers acknowledge this - still don't know what will happen in c5 years when Turkey joins the EU. 75 million more poor(ish) people who can enter Britain? but then Theresa May says she has more power?.. Like you still a LOT of listening to do. This is not a knee-jerk vote, it NEEDS careful consideration...
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."
I would like to see the list that Cameron went in with and see what he came out with without any political waffle or spin
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