Bring Back Matron?

[Angela]

No, not Hattie Jacques but bringing back matron -a senior sister or charge nurse - is being proposed for Scottish hospitals to improve hygiene and help fight HAIs such as MRSA.

He or she would be directly responsible for ensuring good hygiene and clinical practice on the wards.

Do you think this would be a good idea? or would it be just be an additional and unnecessary role that doesn't address the real problems?

Call me old fashioned but I tend to be in favour of having one person in charge and I think that Matron could be the right choice!

[binbob]

No, not Hattie Jacques but bringing back matron -a senior sister or charge nurse - is being proposed for Scottish hospitals to improve hygiene and help fight HAIs such as MRSA.

He or she would be directly responsible for ensuring good hygiene and clinical practice on the wards.

Do you think this would be a good idea? or would it be just be an additional and unnecessary role that doesn't address the real problems?

Call me old fashioned but I tend to be in favour of having one person in charge and I think that Matron could be the right choice!

i totally agree that matron should come back.i also am old fashioned too and in my student nurse days,in the early 70 s matron was to be feared...albeit a HEALTHY fear!!!
i think nurses still should be involved in the cleanliness of wards as we were.patient care always came 1st and that always included cleanliness.
too too much paperwork nowadays.............
i have always felt that discipline needs a certain amount of fear element...gets things done.
never did me any harm in my younger days.

[Tristan]

I think a Matron or Mantron () would be a good thing. Having someone in charge and is accountable is a good thing. Unfortunately, like many other things the government does, will there be funding to do the job, will professional cleaners be given the time to do the job etc.

[katarina]

I'm all for bringing matron back and making nurses as responsible for cleanliness as cleaners. If they see something needing done they should do it, then report the sloppy cleaner!

[gleeber]

The world has changed in the time that matron has disappeared. In matrons day everybody knew their place. Society was different. There's no way one single woman and lets face it when we talk of matron we are talking of a woman, could handle the pressures and needs of a modern hospital.

[Anne x]

The world has changed in the time that matron has disappeared. In matrons day everybody knew their place. Society was different. There's no way one single woman and lets face it when we talk of matron we are talking of a woman, could handle the pressures and needs of a modern hospital.

What !!! I dont believe it and why my young man Not ?
I could think of Plenty of women who are more than able and qualified to take on a Matron post and handle the pressure of a dirty new hospital
Steam coming out of ears

[Angela]

The world has changed in the time that matron has disappeared. In matrons day everybody knew their place. Society was different. There's no way one single woman and lets face it when we talk of matron we are talking of a woman, could handle the pressures and needs of a modern hospital.

No reason why it would have to be a woman now, surely? Traditionally Matron was female because all nurses were female, and at the same time the vast majority of doctors were men. Do you remember how to begin with folk would refer to a 'lady doctor' and a 'male nurse' as if both somehow went against the laws of nature?

Perhaps you're too young!

In any case, women -both nurses of all grades and doctors of all grades -are 'handling the pressures and needs of a modern hospital' on a daily basis..or they certainly were when I spent five long months incarcerated in RIE.

I think it would be good to have the stability provided by one person who is responsible for the day to day running of the ward -as things stand it's hard to know who is meant to be in charge at any one time.

[Anne x]

No reason why it would have to be a woman now, surely? Traditionally Matron was female because all nurses were female, and at the same time the vast majority of doctors were men. Do you remember how to begin with folk would refer to a 'lady doctor' and a 'male nurse' as if both somehow went against the laws of nature?

Perhaps you're too young!

Women -both nurses of all grades and doctors of all grades -are 'handling the pressures and needs of a modern hospital' on a daily basis..or they certainly were when I spent five long months incarcerated in RIE.

I think it would be good to have the stability provided by one person who is responsible for the day to day running of the ward -as things stand it's hard to know who is meant to be in charge at any one time.

Yes Angela and the old fashioned Suprintendant the male equivalent of the Matron did some great work

[teenybash]

Definately time for The Matrons Return or the male equivalent, if needed ...
Women, in general know the code of hygiene naturally, although men are learning................Bring on those feisty women and our hospitals will only get better.

[gleeber]

On reflection maybe both Anne and Angela would make efficient matrons.
When I think of a matron I think of someone who runs the roost. Their word is law even amongst the most senior doctors and surgeons.They in turn know who the boss is.
But the world has changed. Paperwork, insurance, workers rights, patients rights, outside caterers/cleaners, managers to name but a few of the modern practices that poor matron will have to deal with.
I can think of a few women who could do it too. For half an hour maybe.
I honestly dont think that the romantic vision you two have of matron tranfers into the 21st century. I will also accept your notion of a male matron just to show I'm not prejudiced.
I can see it's a prickly point with you two. Must be an age thing. I widna know being so young.

[cuddlepop]

There was a programe on the television not so long ago about this.
It basically was an experiement to see if installing an old fashioned matron would bring back "the good old days".
They brought a retired matron back into sevice for the day and by the end of the day the "retired " matron admited herself that society now wouldnt accept her or his overarching power in the NHS.

It seems respect is whats missing now and that cant be reinstalled by magically bringing back matron.

[domino]

Matrons, in my opinion, never really did much regarding the cleanliness of hospital wards. It was done to the Ward Sisters who had absolute authority. Ward Sisters were later given only sapiential authority over domestics and cleaners but more or less lost this with the advent of Domestic Managers,whom I felt were a total waste of money!1
In the old days everyone was part of the team and it showed.

[Alice in Blunderland]

Times have changed, peoples percetions have changed and the germs have changed.

Antibiotic use over a period of time has produced MRSA.
It is the gift of the development of, and use of, more powerfull antibiotics which has influenced the rise in MRSA.

In the modern NHS there are charge nurses,infection control nurses,nurse managers all doing the same job collectively as Matron used to do.

The matrons iron grip would be regarded as bullying and harrassment in the 21st century.
You cannot cane a student in school nowadays as you could in the past nor can you bring back the traditional matron to the hospitals in this day.

In my opinion bringing Matron back will not improve anything.

To combat MRSA there are many avenues to be looked into especially antibiotic perscribing habits both in the hospital and GP surgeries.

Cost cutting has been the biggest influence in now dirty hospitals. Cleaners are often provided by outside firms and are given unrealistic goals to achieve.

All hospitals are not dirty hospitals and many of the older hospitals which fall into the 'dirty' bracket are in need of replacement.

Its the case (IMHO) that in a bid to save a few pounds in employing/deploying cleaners and over zealous perscribing by the doctors which have contributed to the rise in dirty hospitals and the rise of MRSA.

[Anne x]

On reflection maybe both Anne and Angela would make efficient matrons.
When I think of a matron I think of someone who runs the roost. Their word is law even amongst the most senior doctors and surgeons.They in turn know who the boss is.
But the world has changed. Paperwork, insurance, workers rights, patients rights, outside caterers/cleaners, managers to name but a few of the modern practices that poor matron will have to deal with.
I can think of a few women who could do it too. For half an hour maybe.
I honestly dont think that the romantic vision you two have of matron tranfers into the 21st century. I will also accept your notion of a male matron just to show I'm not prejudiced.
I can see it's a prickly point with you two. Must be an age thing. I widna know being so young.

I will take that as a compliment for now !! I have no romantic Version of the role believe me
Women in Society as a whole are just as capable of holding down full time posititions of trust as men and some do it better !!
21st Century I think so I do live in the real world and realise all the potholes that would come with such a positition
surely in the NHS there are managers to deal with all the loopholes etc and all that that brings of the NHS Managers
Ward staff do not have time to or resources to put to cleanliness Rotas etc but in my opinion all the money today is wasted on Deadlines Tragets etc I think that is the whole point of the debate here
just let a Matron or Suprintendant be just that overlooking the ward life of the hosp Cleaniless etc in charge of the Nursing Side
and no gleeber neither Angela or I are in our dotage just yet !!!

I also agree that with MRSA etc it does seem like fighting a loosing battle
but if you were to be a patient in a NHS Hosp see the cleaners guddling about with the same bucket of water cleaning floors on several fights of stairs and ward entrances what would you think it happens believe me also outside wards there are containers with liquid for the public to rub on there hands to combat infection 90per cent of the time they were empty
As to Staff dress well I saw charge nurses in grubby trainers on a high dependancy unit

[Fly]

Perhaps if most of the pointless managers were got rid of there would be money available to employ enough cleaning staff.

I agree about the overprescribing of antibiotics. They were prescribed on occasions when they were useless eg viral infections.

[Shabbychic]

I don't believe a Matron would make any difference these days. Since hospitals were taken over by Trusts, the system has failed. They took the running of hospitals out of the hands of nurses and gave it to business men, who only know about facts and figures, savings and profits.

When hospital cleaners were part of the ward staff, they took pride in their work, but this was given to the cheapest contractors they could find, and the cleaning staff don't feel part of the team any more.

When I was a ward sister, my wards had permenant cleaning staff, and the wards were immaculate. Later, when I was a Clinical Nurse Manager, the new contract staff were introduced, and I noticed the difference right away. I am not blaming all the cleaning staff for this, but their working conditions.

With regards to MRSA and other bugs, I feel there are a few things that could be contributing to this. I am not going to harp on about the good old days, however, when I was in nursing, nurses did not wear their uniforms outside of the hospital. They travelled to and from work in mufti, which meant they were not taking any infections out or in on their uniform.

Another area which needs some attention is the Aseptic Techniques some nurses use. I have been shocked at some of the Techniques I have witnessed being carried out. I am not saying all nurses are like this, but even a few is a few too many.

[Alice in Blunderland]

The system is failing for a couple of reasons not necessarily because of no Matrons.

The oversubscription of the existing resources. There are more patients now than ever before.

The new diagnostic techniques have unravelled new diseases which remained undiagnosed in the past.

The new treatments both pharmacological ( tablets etc )

and interventions ( operarations and other procedures )

have opened an array of untowards side effects.

The patient turnover in hospital beds is far more than before.

The staffing levels are not up to mark.

For instance years ago in Matrons day a heart attack patient arriving in her hospital was not going to receive the same intervention as today.

The same patient today goes for invasive interventions ( which definately saves lives ) but is exposed to more chances of getting untoward effects /infections.

This is the downside of the upbeat.

No intervetional procedure is free of risks.You can minimise the risks but cannot completely get rid of .

Funding for hospitals has increased tenfold but so has costs.

Most hospitals have a uniform policy in place which involves not wearing the uniform outside but if the staff do not follow this that is a different matter which can be dealt with seperately.

In these modern times of targets which are laid down by the government its an unfortunate fact that this has also entered into the equation.

Matron never had the same targets or pressures.

Am I correct that in Matrons days consultants and surgeons at times could be seen smoking in Hospitals?

Sacking the managers would free up some cash but would it be diverted to the cleaners.... I think not. Who then would be left to the supervision of all the various tasks within the hospital environment ,not just cleaning.

Staff morale is a major factor in a pride in your work.

If morale is low then the end product will not be to the best of anyones standard.

In todays climate of budgets, targets, rapid patient turnover, understaffing, stressful working conditions, pay reviews (downgrading or upgrading of job ) press headlines the list could go on and on.

How do you rate staff moral within the NHS?



In the third world countries where there are no hospitals there is no MRSA.

[Angela]

The system is failing for a couple of reasons not necessarily because of no Matrons.


How do you rate staff moral within the NHS?

I agree there Alice - I don't think bringing back Matron, or the present day equivalent, is a panacea for all the ills of the NHS, or that it's the lack of Matrons that has caused the appearance of superbugs. I wouldn't like to see some old dragon ruling the nursing staff with a rod of iron!

However, I do like the idea of there being someone who is in charge of the day to day running of wards, because my own experience both as a patient and as a visitor has shown that that to be very sadly lacking, and when there's a day to day problem the buck seems to be passed endlessly backwards and forwards with nobody taking responsibility.

It may make no difference of course, but this plan does seem to be going ahead. I've been assuming, perhaps wrongly, that it's really more a variant of the ward sister role that's going to be re-introduced -someone that's in charge but at the same time is hands-on. I wouldn't have thought a distant Matron figure in charge of an entire hospital could have any positive effect in a large modern hospital -it would just be another layer of management.

I must say I've found staff morale to be very low. I don't blame the staff for that at all, but the increasing demands placed on them and the system they are struggling to work within. I do appreciate the importance of teamwork, but unless there's good leadership and all the team members are motivated, the team doesn't function all that well.

You do get a pretty good impression of how nurses feel anyway as they chat away while changing your bed sheets! It's less easy as a patient to gauge how the doctors feel. Short term contracts and overly demanding shift patterns certainly don't help and most people seem very stressed by the constant changes and the amount of time they have to find for paperwork and other non clinical duties.

[Alice in Blunderland]

I wouldn't like to see some old dragon ruling the nursing staff with a rod of iron!

Could you imagine how many cases of harrasment and bullying would be instigated within the NHS if Matron did come back with that way of ruling the ward.
There was no such thing as this in her day you just took it and got on with it or left.

[Anne x]

The system is failing for a couple of reasons not necessarily because of no Matrons.

The oversubscription of the existing resources. There are more patients now than ever before.

The new diagnostic techniques have unravelled new diseases which remained undiagnosed in the past.

The new treatments both pharmacological ( tablets etc )

and interventions ( operarations and other procedures )

have opened an array of untowards side effects.

The patient turnover in hospital beds is far more than before.

The staffing levels are not up to mark.

For instance years ago in Matrons day a heart attack patient arriving in her hospital was not going to receive the same intervention as today.

The same patient today goes for invasive interventions ( which definately saves lives ) but is exposed to more chances of getting untoward effects /infections.

This is the downside of the upbeat.

No intervetional procedure is free of risks.You can minimise the risks but cannot completely get rid of .

Funding for hospitals has increased tenfold but so has costs.

Most hospitals have a uniform policy in place which involves not wearing the uniform outside but if the staff do not follow this that is a different matter which can be dealt with seperately.

In these modern times of targets which are laid down by the government its an unfortunate fact that this has also entered into the equation.

Matron never had the same targets or pressures.

Am I correct that in Matrons days consultants and surgeons at times could be seen smoking in Hospitals?

Sacking the managers would free up some cash but would it be diverted to the cleaners.... I think not. Who then would be left to the supervision of all the various tasks within the hospital environment ,not just cleaning.

Staff morale is a major factor in a pride in your work.

If morale is low then the end product will not be to the best of anyones standard.

In todays climate of budgets, targets, rapid patient turnover, understaffing, stressful working conditions, pay reviews (downgrading or upgrading of job ) press headlines the list could go on and on.

How do you rate staff moral within the NHS?



In the third world countries where there are no hospitals there is no MRSA.

Great Post Alice and I have to agree Morale in the NHS is at a all time LOW

A person who works for 35 yrs in NHS can be down graded at a whim simply by meeting targets of managers

I agree that staff work under some awful conditions A & E staff with Drunks and Druggies
Our mental Health staff with attacks etc
At the end of the day its all about targets and underfunding and the Board that governs our particular Health Board

The Matron I knew never smoked or took a drink but her ward Sister did

So Morale NHS at a all time low a Matron or Suprintendant would not solve it because of harrassment and fear of Picking on people in this day and age so what is the answer more Money !! more Managers !! Better Cleaners what would you like to see ?