Lorry Protest

**bekisman** · 27-May-08, 12:23

Lorry Protest.
See once again the lorry Drivers are out on protest - more power to their elbow!..
This so-called Government are nothing but amateurs, they seem totally unable to guage the feeling of the nation, firstly we had the removal of the ten pence tax band, what blithering idiot was unable to foresee that 5.2 million people would be worse off (I was one of those affected), oh yes that was the son of the Manse who put that lot in progress before throwing his toys out of his pram and getting the PM's job, so poor old Darling has to clear up the mess, so what does he do? ups the tax allowances.. so that costs more for the country, but hey, why fiddle about with real economics?.

Now they are being reminded that the country is grinding to a halt because of the cost of fuel, but let's not hear the squeals of "but it's the price of oil"!, yea right, but before you get your nickers in a twist look at the list I've provided below, that's right good old UK.com has the highest excise duty on ALL OF EUROPE - other great nations such as France and Germany have high duty on unleaded, but look at Diesel..

Right now Darling is getting massive, I say MASSIVE returns from the oil companies; as oil goes up he gets more money flowing into his coffers, during the debacle of the Grangemouth refinery strike he got an extra £7,000,000,000 - not bad eh?

He wants to keep the fuel escalator formula going, no matter what the state of the country, no matter how many companies go to the wall, "got to stick to the formula" - that's the problem with this Government, they cannot deviate away from 'The Plan'?. Hit the motorist; make 'em pay for the most polluting cars, keep this coming Autumn 2p a litre rise.. is it any wonder you've got some 40 (last count) LABOUR MP's panicking about it, at least 'they' can see the writing on the wall..

No doubt we'll get the usual burble; 'cannot change policies for short term'? eh? what world do these people live in (I seem to remember Darling was surprised at the cost of fuel on the Islands when he was up here a few weeks ago, he should get out more). The purpose of Government is to serve the people who elected them, not stick rigidly and inflexibly to policies that are causing all of us great harm.

For all our sakes, wake up Brown and Darling!!

Amount of excise duty paid across Europe in pence per litre:

Country Unleaded Diesel
UK 0.57 0.57
Netherlands 0.54 0.29
Germany 0.52 0.37
France 0.48 0.34
Belgium 0.47 0.26
Finland 0.47 0.25
Portugal 0.46 0.29
Italy 0.45 0.34
Malta 0.38 0.26
Ireland 0.35 0.29
Denmark 0.42 0.29
Luxembourg 0.37 0.23
Austria 0.36 0.28
Slovakia 0.33 0.31
Slovenia 0.33 0.26
Czech Rep. 0.33 0.28
Poland 0.33 0.23
Spain 0.31 0.24
Hungary 0.30 0.25
Sweden 0.29 0.32
Romania 0.26 0.21
Bulgaria 0.26 0.22
Greece 0.26 0.22
Cyprus 0.24 0.20
Latvia 0.24 0.20
Lithuania 0.23 0.19
Estonia 0.23 0.19

**emb123** · 27-May-08, 12:57

Well you've got to look at it from their point of view: we pay the most tax on everything because we earn more per capita than everyone else in the world, and we have the highest standard of living in the world.

Ok, slight mistake. I should not really have said 'we', I suppose should really have used the pronoun 'they' instead.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. So much for NEW Labour's Socialist roots. Give a politician a nice fat paycheck and he turns into a money-grasping Tory it seems. The old nobles became Lords, Lairds & Kings because they were the biggest, the leeryest and the loudest thugs. The only thing that seems to have the changed by much is the method.

Britain seems to have always had such a difficult task shaking off politicians greed and corruption. Hummph!

**Stargazer** · 27-May-08, 15:47

The government has to get their money from somewhere.

**bekisman** · 27-May-08, 15:47

At least France is thinking..
'The French president has suggested that the EU should consider capping value added tax on fuel to help countries deal with surging oil prices. Nicolas Sarkozy warned there was no sign the oil price would dip and urged EU member states to consider his idea. "If the barrel continues to rise, must we maintain a VAT rate that is proportional to the price in the same conditions?" Mr Sarkozy said in an interview with French radio station RTL' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7421198.stm

**Valerie Campbell** · 27-May-08, 16:38

Bekisman, I couldn't agree with you more. Re the protest, I heard the hauliers are thinking of blockading refineries. Why bother doing that with the threat of arrest? Why not just say, 'we're not moving until the price comes down Mr Brown. Until then, sorry, we can't deliver the goods cos we can't afford the fuel. What are you going to do?'

**MadPict** · 27-May-08, 18:28

Whereas previous blockades was carried out by both truckers and ordinary motorists with the aim of reducing the taxes across the board for ALL users, this time I get the sense that the demands of the truckers is for parity with bus companies who pay 25ppl less than truckers/mere motorists, as the bus companies are classed as "an essential service" and so get relief.

The government will be loath to reduce the amount of tax/duty they levy on fuel, as it is a cash cow that they do not want to stop milking - the motorist is an easy victim for the government. They can set their expenditure for future years knowing that the income from the motorist is a guaranteed thing.

People need to use their cars, be it for business or pleasure or necessity, and I recall a poll being taken, either before or after the last protests, asking how high would fuel have to go before drivers stopped buying fuel - a huge majority said they would still buy fuel at £2 a litre.

Rising crude prices may well result in the £2 a litre price sooner than we think but if something isn't done soon the effects will be final for many. A trader at the local market was saying the amount he pays for fuel now will probably mean he cannot carry on much longer. He will have to give up what he has been doing for 25 years.

In another thread someone asked about rising coal prices. Turns out it isn't the cost of the coal going up but the cost of transporting it. Along with food the ability to afford heating is an essential in this country - so how long before families start being affected by this?

I may well join the truckers on the picket line if they go to the next stage - hopefully they will align themselves with the motorist as they have done before...

**emb123** · 27-May-08, 18:55

I go with the majority view here too. There are some things that it is pretty stupid to tax.

Taxing fuel supplies to industries that are absolutely essential such as the folks who supply us with, well, everything pretty much seems utterly ludicrous. It means that there is no way that it isn't going to impact on the cost of pretty much everything, such as topically, coal, but it will also put up the price of food, oil, coal, gas, furniture, carpet, garden supplies, booze. Really, everything.

Gordon Brown isn't the Chancellor of Exchequer any more so I feel that he really ought to pull his finger out of that particular pie, before he burns it, i.e. burns both his finger and the pie too.

Go truckers!

**Cattach** · 27-May-08, 19:05

Originally Posted by Stargazer

The government has to get their money from somewhere.

You are quite correct. And as for long postings like the one that started this thread - I scan them at best because they are generally far too long to spend time on.

**emb123** · 27-May-08, 19:26

Originally Posted by Cattach

You are quite correct. And as for long postings like the one that started this thread - I scan them at best because they are generally far too long to spend time on.

People do tend to go on at length when it reflects something that they feel very strongly about.

(Me, on the other hand, I just go on! I was a chatterbox when I was a kid and I never grew out of it. As I type around 70 wpm, it kind of gets reflected in my web postings too).

It IS dubious what discussing this here is going to realistically achieve, but then I suppose the alternative is to sit indoors, turn the computer off, watch the TV and bark at anyone who interupts the programme. Although this is divergent from the original topic, is there really any value to discussion and debate ?

**badger** · 27-May-08, 19:46

Originally Posted by Cattach

You are quite correct. And as for long postings like the one that started this thread - I scan them at best because they are generally far too long to spend time on.

If you can't cope with reasoned and informed posts don't read them - some of us can manage to concentrate for more than 2 secs.

Back to the subject - I wish there was some way only Brown and Darling could be affected by lack of supplies. Maybe a little starvation would help to bring them back to earth.

**emb123** · 27-May-08, 19:52

Originally Posted by badger

If you can't cope with reasoned and informed posts don't read them - some of us can manage to concentrate for more than 2 secs.

Back to the subject - I wish there was some way only Brown and Darling could be affected by lack of supplies. Maybe a little starvation would help to bring them back to earth.

Quite right!

**bekisman** · 27-May-08, 20:07

For cattach:
Lorry Protest. amateur government. big mistake 10% tax band. uk most excise duty paid in EU. Gov can't deviate from plan. Darling lot of money. no flexibility.
see list:

Amount of excise duty paid across Europe in pence per litre:

Country Unleaded Diesel
UK 0.57 0.57
Netherlands 0.54 0.29
Germany 0.52 0.37
France 0.48 0.34
Belgium 0.47 0.26
Finland 0.47 0.25
Portugal 0.46 0.29
Italy 0.45 0.34
Malta 0.38 0.26
Ireland 0.35 0.29
Denmark 0.42 0.29
Luxembourg 0.37 0.23
Austria 0.36 0.28
Slovakia 0.33 0.31
Slovenia 0.33 0.26
Czech Rep. 0.33 0.28
Poland 0.33 0.23
Spain 0.31 0.24
Hungary 0.30 0.25
Sweden 0.29 0.32
Romania 0.26 0.21
Bulgaria 0.26 0.22
Greece 0.26 0.22
Cyprus 0.24 0.20
Latvia 0.24 0.20
Lithuania 0.23 0.19
Estonia 0.23 0.19

**the second coming** · 27-May-08, 20:11

I travel up and down the country quite frequently due to work and personal requirements. Whenever possible I take public transport as it is a simple refund on the cost from my employer or the NHS. If I use my own vehicle, a modest 1.6 petrol, I get stiffened by a mileage rate that hasn't changed for a good few years to accommodate rising fuel prices.

Why is it I pay an inflated price for my fuel as opposed to city prices. I am told this is due to haulage which I can accept in a smaller scale but the cost of fuel in smaller towns on the way to Caithness is even more grossly inflated in unit price. At least they have the decency to use signage to indicate how much you're about to get robbed.

There was a lot of talk over petrol stations closing when Tesco's opened in Wick, which I don't think has happened, barring one, all that did happen is the prices where dropped to within a penny which only indicates how much they've been fleecing me with no signage and a tale of woe regarding the rising cost. Pish.

Finally (at last I hear), I pay a relatively similar price for service bills such as telephone usage, electricity units, water etc etc. Why does the government not unify the unit price of fuel across the country and thus allow rural "necessity" users the same playing field as city "lots of public transport available" users. It would provide a few Chelsea tractor drivers with an option I am sure.

End of rant

**golach** · 27-May-08, 20:13

Originally Posted by bekisman

For cattach:
Lorry Protest. amateur government. big mistake 10% tax band. uk most excise duty paid in EU. Gov can't deviate from plan. Darling lot of money. no flexibility.
see list:

Amount of excise duty paid across Europe in pence per litre:

Country Unleaded Diesel
UK 0.57 0.57
Netherlands 0.54 0.29
Germany 0.52 0.37
France 0.48 0.34
Belgium 0.47 0.26
Finland 0.47 0.25
Portugal 0.46 0.29
Italy 0.45 0.34
Malta 0.38 0.26
Ireland 0.35 0.29
Denmark 0.42 0.29
Luxembourg 0.37 0.23
Austria 0.36 0.28
Slovakia 0.33 0.31
Slovenia 0.33 0.26
Czech Rep. 0.33 0.28
Poland 0.33 0.23
Spain 0.31 0.24
Hungary 0.30 0.25
Sweden 0.29 0.32
Romania 0.26 0.21
Bulgaria 0.26 0.22
Greece 0.26 0.22
Cyprus 0.24 0.20
Latvia 0.24 0.20
Lithuania 0.23 0.19
Estonia 0.23 0.19

Fair enough Bekisman, but where is the source of your figures, not saying your being a politico and being economical with the truth, but in todays world I am a bitty sceptical of lists of figures thrust at me with no source to check for my self.

**theone** · 27-May-08, 20:17

The UK government charges 57p a litre tax.

This hasn't changed in the last year. Whether the petrol is £1 a litre or £2 a litre, 57p is all the government takes.

All the rises at the pumps have been down to the cost of oil.

Yes, fuel duty might be too high but that is not to blame for the recent hike.

**emb123** · 27-May-08, 20:31

Originally Posted by theone

The UK government charges 57p a litre tax.

This hasn't changed in the last year. Whether the petrol is £1 a litre or £2 a litre, 57p is all the government takes.

All the rises at the pumps have been down to the cost of oil.

Yes, fuel duty might be too high but that is not to blame for the recent hike.

While it is a 'nice little earner' and I do appreciate that the government need to get their money from somewhere, and I also understand the desire to tax that which is less environmentally friendly to encourage more environment-friendly methods and services to become the cheaper option; I think that given the current problems across the board with many cost of living/inflationary concerns as a result of ever-soaring fuel costs, the smarter option would be to reduce duty on fuel.

I'm not in the business of proposing where the money should be found to do this because I don't have the balance sheet in front of me, but I do believe it should be done. The cost of fuels are crippling many businesses and impacting severely on poverty.

If inflation matters and poverty in the UK matters much to the electorate then I think it should be considered to be sufficient a problem for remedial action to be required and taken, even if it means shifting the focus of taxation.

**MadPict** · 27-May-08, 20:41

Golach,
See - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...in-Europe.html

**theone** · 27-May-08, 20:48

emb123,

you make good points, but mine remains....

The fuel duty now is the same as it was last year, even with a new 2p rise this would still be generally in line with inflation.

The problem with the recent rises in the cost of fuel has nothing to do with the UK government.

The rises have been down to the cost of crude oil. There's lots of reasons for the price rising, and I'm afraid to say the UK Government, whether Labour/Tory/Whoever can have little influence on that.

Even if the government slashed duty by 50% to 29p a litre, the price at the pumps would be higher than at this time last year. The only difference would be the loss of cash on public services.