Goth girl murder

**percy toboggan** · 27-Mar-08, 20:48

..the news is familiar yet surely still merits a mention...the current trend for drunken youths to jump on peoples heads is really catching on.

This time an innocent girl who dared to be different battered whilst trying to protect her boyfriend who was being kicked senseless.

Bacup is an anonymous Lancashire mill town...the mills are not milling much these days of course but just what is the town turning out?

These senseless acts are now becoming regular, if not quite commonplace in our southern* towns and cities. The notion of increasing violence is gaining momentum and folk are becoming fearful.

In the same area young white girls are being groomed as teenage prostitutes (Panorama 10.35 tonight) different aspects of the same problem...a dis-connect of a section of youth and society as it appears to most of us.

The almost daily diet of bad news, which threatens to overwhelm the worried observer is depressing indeed, even for those who possess a healthy, detached cynicism.

*from a Caithness perspective

**MadPict** · 27-Mar-08, 20:51

The UK is going down the drain....

**silverfox57** · 27-Mar-08, 20:57

just have to read court cases in our groat every week to see caithness is going down the drain too.

**Green_not_greed** · 27-Mar-08, 21:00

Originally Posted by MadPict

The UK is going down the drain....

I completely agree. I think it has a LOT to do with New Labour's namby-pamby, politically-correct approach to everything. Over the past 11 years its almost replaced the traditional British values - especially those of respect and self-discipline - with complete anarchy, despair and don't care attitude.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating any "strict army" regime on our younger bretheren, but I would like to see a return of respect for property, people and personal values.

**Boozeburglar** · 27-Mar-08, 21:00

A kitten was saved from a tree other week, all is not lost.

**percy toboggan** · 27-Mar-08, 21:03

Originally Posted by silverfox57

just have to read court cases in our groat every week to see caithness is going down the drain too.

Is it really? How depressing.
I think I might turn my attention to France for my reitrement needs....I am beginning to think the UK really is on a long downward slope that will see me, and possibly even my children out before any upswing.....

**Sapphire2803** · 27-Mar-08, 21:11

Originally Posted by silverfox57

just have to read court cases in our groat every week to see caithness is going down the drain too.

Try living in Portsmouth for a year and reading their court round up. I read the Groat every week and breathe a sigh of relief at how tame things are round here.

**silverfox57** · 27-Mar-08, 21:16

Originally Posted by percy toboggan

Is it really? How depressing.
I think I might turn my attention to France for my reitrement needs....I am beginning to think the UK really is on a long downward slope that will see me, and possibly even my children out before any upswing.....

it is very depressing for the elderly when the are to scared to go out after dark,for fear of being attacked by yobs.

**Whitewater** · 27-Mar-08, 21:20

Have to agree with "green not greed2 on this. We are now giving in to all sorts of dangerous and nutty pressure groups in our efforts to be politically correct. In doing so many of our politicians have lost sight of our own values and what made Britain Great. I feel that if our imigrants don't like the place, no matter their creed or colour, they should clear off to where their politics and views will be accepted rather than try to change ours. Australia has been running a successful imigration policy for years, and if their imigrants don't like it they get short shrift.

**Boozeburglar** · 27-Mar-08, 21:24

What on earth has the murder of this girl by British teens got to do with the issue of immigration?

How is this the result of immigration?

**percy toboggan** · 27-Mar-08, 21:30

Originally Posted by Whitewater

Have to agree with "green not greed2 on this. We are now giving in to all sorts of dangerous and nutty pressure groups in our efforts to be politically correct. In doing so many of our politicians have lost sight of our own values and what made Britain Great. I feel that if our imigrants don't like the place, no matter their creed or colour, they should clear off to where their politics and views will be accepted rather than try to change ours. Australia has been running a successful imigratation policy for years, and if their imigrants don't like it they get short shrift.

Whitewater whilst I too am very conscious about the downsides of a decade of mass, unfettered immigration, and see a definite link with rising crime so many of the recent high profile murders have been committed by white indigenous people. These and their ilk I would gladly trade....transporting them to any hot and arid hell hole if only we could import people of calibre, who want to be educated and want to thrive by their own efforts.I am growing very wary of a large sub section of aimless, drunken youth who glory in being aggressive and outside of the parameters of civilised behaviour.....per capita I am persuaded the problem is greatest amongst the white sub working classes. They show no allegiance to any British values I recognise and dread to think of my grandchild attending a school alongside their offsping.

**Green_not_greed** · 27-Mar-08, 21:35

Originally Posted by Whitewater

Have to agree with "green not greed2 on this. We are now giving in to all sorts of dangerous and nutty pressure groups in our efforts to be politically correct. In doing so many of our politicians have lost sight of our own values and what made Britain Great. I feel that if our imigrants don't like the place, no matter their creed or colour, they should clear off to where their politics and views will be accepted rather than try to change ours. Australia has been running a successful imigration policy for years, and if their imigrants don't like it they get short shrift.

My posting had nothing to do with immigrants, It was to do with loss of values. Many family immigrant groups still retain family values and respect we seem to have lost!

GNG

**northener** · 27-Mar-08, 21:37

Originally Posted by percy toboggan

Whitewater whilst I too am very conscious about the downsides of a decade of mass, unfettered immigration, and see a definite link with rising crime so many of the recent high profile murders have been committed by white indigenous people. These and their ilk I would gladly trade....transporting them to any hot and arid hell hole if only we could import people of calibre, who want to be educated and want to thrive by their own efforts.I am growing very wary of a large sub section of aimless, drunken youth who glory in being aggressive and outside of the parameters of civilised behaviour.....per capita I am persuaded the problem is greatest amongst the white sub working classes. They show no allegiance to any British values I recognise and dread to think of my grandchild attending a school alongside their offsping.

Well put, Mr T.

**Whitewater** · 27-Mar-08, 21:42

Originally Posted by Boozeburglar

What on earth has the murder of this girl by British teens got to do with the issue of immigration?

How is this the result of immigration?

Nobody said that the murder was the result of imigration. The reference was made to the government being too PC, because of this they have become too soft, jail sentences are too lenient, and many youngsters have lost all sense of value and respect. All these things have changed because our government tries not too offend anybody, the result being, nobody has any sense of respect for anything, they can kick somebody to death and have a good chance of getting away with it, if punished they will be out again in 2 or 3 years if they promise the good social workers they will be behave when they get out.

**unicorn** · 27-Mar-08, 22:06

I find it disgraceful that any of these animals are protected from being named, that always makes me mad. If they are big enough to take a life they should live with the consequences.
Here is another horrendous story I just stumbled across http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...310880,00.html

**JAWS** · 28-Mar-08, 05:28

For those who think that modern youth is any worse than youth in the past here is something to think about.

A ban on the Rolling Stones playing in a seaside resort has been lifted — after 44 years. The former hellraisers, fronted by Mick Jagger, were barred from performing in Blackpool after a 1964 ballroom concert ended in a riot.
Fifty people were taken to hospital after rowdy fans tore up seats, smashed chandeliers and threw bottles.

That was taken from one of yesterday's papers. For Blackpool to take such action the behaviour must have been extreme because it has never been what you might call a shy retiring place. It has always been brash and rowdy and the odd large fight or two each week were not uncommon.
The Mods and Rockers of that era were just as badly behaved as today’s young and attacks on those who were "one of the others" were just as common and violent then as now, and killings were certainly not unknown.

That is not to excuse the behaviour of those who committed the murder but to pretend it is due to any single, or even a few, particular changes in the make up of Society is to bury one's head in the sand.

I agree that sentences for such things are far too lenient in almost all cases.
As for not naming those involved in such matters because of their age, that is something which definitely needs looking into.
I can accept that youngsters who simply make an error of judgement and as a result end up in Court should not be named but there are limits.
Those who constantly commit criminal offences should eventually be named and I certainly cannot think of any reason why those who go so far as to commit serious criminal offences, and obviously murder, serious assaults and gang attacks, should definitely be named.

It can only be in very rare and exceptional cases that anybody who has reached secondary school age does not understand what the outcome of extremely violent assaults are likely to be. In those cases where that is not the case then the youngster would be unlikely to stand trial in the first place because it would have been decided that they were in no fit mental state to enter a plea or to understand what the trial was about.

**rob murray** · 28-Mar-08, 09:38

Originally Posted by percy toboggan

Whitewater whilst I too am very conscious about the downsides of a decade of mass, unfettered immigration, and see a definite link with rising crime so many of the recent high profile murders have been committed by white indigenous people. These and their ilk I would gladly trade....transporting them to any hot and arid hell hole if only we could import people of calibre, who want to be educated and want to thrive by their own efforts.I am growing very wary of a large sub section of aimless, drunken youth who glory in being aggressive and outside of the parameters of civilised behaviour.....per capita I am persuaded the problem is greatest amongst the white sub working classes. They show no allegiance to any British values I recognise and dread to think of my grandchild attending a school alongside their offsping.

Statistics just released show that white working class youth attain the lowest eductional achievements when compared to other ethnic groups and hence fence in poor economic aspirations. Ethnic groups in poverty conditions and without traditional family structures achieve more. There has been a growing rise in literature and research which highlights massive problems in this population grouping. Why exactly is there such a culture of under achievement./ casual violence / aggresive behaviour..could it be that many feel that there is nothing to work towards....no future...forgotten marginalised estates ! Analysis of Glasgow gang culture ( and other places )suggests that boys are in gangs for identity purposes..ie gives them a sense of purpose..defend territories from invaders...fight...with weapons...gain prestige and standing ( on their minds the only way to do so ) etc throw in drink and stand back.

There is a massive problem right under our noses here and its is not going to go away..immigration..lets get real...harder / longer jail sentences...build more prisons..in the US 10% of afro american males are in jail...do we go down this road or try and tackle the problem properly....and yes 11 years of interference has heightened the problem..discipline starts at home and in school...how about starting there and maybe in a generation we might see a change...doubt it though...

**rob murray** · 28-Mar-08, 10:20

Just to add, what happened to the Goth Girl was evil and despicable, these guys knew what they were doing and should be in jail for life..meaning life.