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Thread: Reports of the death of Indy have been greatly exaggerated.

  1. #1

    Default Reports of the death of Indy have been greatly exaggerated.

    Some recent poll results, as collated by Ballot Box Scotland, may be of interest.

    The latest information contains the results of eight recent polls on the subject of Scottish independence. It is interesting to note that support for independence, in every one of those polls, is at or above the IndyRef1 result.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corky Smeek View Post
    Some recent poll results, as collated by Ballot Box Scotland, may be of interest.

    The latest information contains the results of eight recent polls on the subject of Scottish independence. It is interesting to note that support for independence, in every one of those polls, is at or above the IndyRef1 result.
    Maybe slightly higher than 2014, but still nowhere near the 50%+1 needed.

  3. #3

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    Thought I'd post this extract from your link Corky, saves people a bit of time.You would have thought after everything that has gone on since 2014, what with Brexit, Boris, Liz etc, the support would have rocketed. The fact that it's barely moved, shows most Scots are pretty content with the status quo.Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #4

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    My point was that, despite the best (worst) efforts of the MSM to convince everyone that Indy is dead in the water; it isn't.

    YES is a movement and the SNP are only one of the contributors (albeit the largest one). So despite the recent travails of the SNP, support for Indy has not diminished. Like so many unionists, the MSM see YES and the SNP as one and the same thing when clearly they are not. Who knows what will happen to the SNP but one thing I feel for sure is that their place will be taken by another organisation/party.

    In short: we are not going away. Our day will come.

    PS: How many motorhomes do you think you could buy for the price of the coronation?

  5. #5

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    Not sure on your take on the BBC (whether they are a trusted source or not), but thought this was interesting news a day after your post. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65425495

    Highlights in case you don't want to read it.

    Sir John Curtice, professor of politics at Strathclyde University, told the BBC: "The realisation has dawned on them that while support for independence has tended to be higher than it was in 2014, it tends to be just below 50%.


    "If you want to win a referendum - and clearly make the case a referendum is justified - you need to start well ahead."

    Support for Scottish independence needs to be higher and more consistent to force another referendum, the new SNP leadership believes.


    ​If they could improve this country for all, not just the poorest, then maybe a few tax payers may consider voting for indy...That's my view, not the SNP's or Sir JC


  6. #6

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    I am a great admirer of Prof. Curtis and I think he has pretty much hit the nail square on the head.

    BUT, he is just stating numbers not the reasons for the numbers. The Independence cause never gets a fair hearing within the media. Virtually the entire weight of the MSM falls behind the case for the Union. Faced with the relentless bombardment from the media I think the fact that support for YES is remaining solid (if static) is remarkable.

    It is a propaganda war and one side has control over what news we are allowed to see/hear. That's not only the case with Indy but so many other aspects of our lives where vested interests control the political agenda. Life under the current Tory government is ample proof of where real power lies; and it ain't in Westminster.

    I'm disappointed by your last sentence. Surely the mark of a civilised nation is the degree to which the most disadvantaged members of the population are looked after by the state. I don't mean a "free pass" but just a safety net which stops them falling even further. The richest and happiest countries in the world all have first class social responsibility policies. It is a false economy to allow the poor to get poorer. One of the things I despise about the UK is the way successive governments have failed in their primary responsibility of protecting and looking after their population. All too often the interests of the few take precedence over the interests of the many.

  7. #7

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    I think I must inhabit an entirely different space to you as all I've seen for years now is stuff about how great things would be if we, the pesky voters would all only 'do the right thing' and embrace independence. 'Yes' signs and saltires (which have been entirely appropriated by the 'yessers although should be the flag for all the people of Scotland) are also still everywhere as you go about. What you assert has simply not been my experience- I mean about the 'relentless bombardment' or at least, if it is there it has been from the supporters of independence in my view.
    The FM asserts today that the SNP are going from strength to strength and that there is nothing to worry about but we shall have to see.

  8. #8

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    @ Fulmar. I was writing only about the MSM not the wider public. It surely cannot have escaped your notice that the print media, in particular, has been on all out attack these last few months. With one exception every single newspaper in Scotland is anti-independence. The front pages of the Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times and Record have, in recent weeks, contained nothing but anti-independence and SNP-bad stories.

    There is no counter balance to this rhetoric and that is not democratic. I would go so far as to say that if the UK were to ask to re-join the EU then one of the arguments that would be used to justify a rejection is that we do not have a free and independent press. It is often said that if Italy were not already in the EU it would be denied entry for the same reason.

    All people on my side of the debate want is the chance to compete on a level playing field. That is impossible to achieve with the MSM under the control of vested interests.
    Last edited by Corky Smeek; 29-Apr-23 at 21:02. Reason: Correction

  9. #9

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    On the whole, newspapers have to report the truth or they end up in court. Are you saying all the news about the SNP over the last two months has been 'fake'?

    It's not the medias fault the SNP are in meltdown, they are reporting what's going on, and yes, there may be some smugness in the way the reports are written, but when Nicola Sturgeon and her inner circle set themselves on a high moral pedestal, then they deserve everything coming their way.

    We don't need the MSM to tell us the SNP are 'bad' and that indy is 'bad'. The SNP do a good job already, just look at the awful 'documents' they released last year trying to convince us indy is the way forward. They contained nothing but hopes and dreams, nothing of substance, despite employing civil servants and researchers for years to come up with some idea of how an independent Scotland would function.

    If you 'Yessers' want indy, my advice, get rid of the SNP as they are holding you back.

    Nobody is forced to buy newspapers. I, like most, buy a paper that aligns with my views and political standpoint. The National is the paper than serves your views. It doesn't matter how many other papers hold opposing views as you aren't going to buy them and be swayed by their editorials, just as I'm not going to buy The National. Mind you, looking at the circulation figures hardly anyone bothers with The National either.

    Anyone with an interest will do their own research online rather than taking a newspapers version of events as gospel.

  10. #10

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    I really can't be ar*ed writing a great long rebuttal. The post above proves you just gloss over posts you don't like then falsely infer some point and go on a tirade of your own invention. A lot like the MSM do in fact.

    I will say a few things though:-

    The notion that newspapers don't lie is utterly laughable. You know that of course but it so happens you like the lies they tell. As you say, they align with your views and political standpoint. They have pockets deep enough to withstand most legal challenges and are not subject to any serious level of self-regulation. All we have in the UK is dog-whistle journalism which tells the readership what they want to hear to bolster their confirmation bias.

    Just in case you are wondering, I don't buy a newspaper of any description. As you say there are more reliable sources of information available elsewhere.

  11. #11

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    Nice to hear Joanna Cherry SNP MSP agree with my view expressed above;

    Ms Cherry also said the party had not done "the necessary groundwork" on economic issues under former first minister Nicola Sturgeon to win over opponents of Scottish independence.


    She added: "I've always argued that the way to win a referendum was to persuade people who voted no in 2014 of the merits of our case.


    "The SNP needs to discuss both how we convince people to the cause of independence and also how we actually win our independence.

    I hope the 'Yes' movement take that onboard or they will forever be the minority in Scotland.


  12. #12

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    The latest Ipsos poll on Scottish independence shows support at 53% - https://ballotbox.scot/independence.

    You probably don't know about this of course because the MSM are too busy doing relentless SNP Bad stories and don't want anything to dilute their anti-Indy message. More media lies and double standards.

  13. #13

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    Polls show support going up and then down then up again. Why would the media be interested in one particular poll? BTW, the BBC did feature the front page of The National last Thursday, with that story.

    Why are you worried about what the press say about the SNP, you've made it clear you are not part of that party many times. They are bad, that's why there are so many stories, ADP is an absolute shambles and a pound to a penny, the SNP will adopt the same criteria as PIP as they are finally realising the true cost of taking what people say at face value, it's either that or bankrupt the country. So, yes they are bad, and by bad I mean completely out of their depth in so many areas of government.

    And finally, please remember you are not going to get another bite at the cherry until Westminster says so, and that wont be anytime soon.

  14. #14

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    Well why are the MSM so keen to point out other polls that show drops in support?

    You only think the SNP are bad because you want to (and actually do) believe the stories in the Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times, Guardian, Record, Herald, Scotsman, P&J, BBC, ITV, STV and Sky. And since those outlets don't do their jobs properly and investigate the utter corruption and incompetence at the heart of Westminster you go about your business having been thoroughly brainwashed. I don't see that as your fault though. The brainwashing is relentless and it's just that you are in denial.

    Of course, the worrying aspect to that is you would still prefer to saddle the Scottish people with Westminster corruption than give us the chance to run our own lives.

    Your final sentence sums up why I and many other Yessers voted for Indy in 2014: "...until Westminster says so, ..." Thank you for reminding me (not that I really needed it) of one of the reasons I will never stop fighting to free ourselves from Westminster rule. The latest Ipsos poll shows I am not alone.

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