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Thread: Deflection?

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corky Smeek View Post
    Thanks for saying that Goodfellers. You have just provided me with all the motivation I need to continue the fight for independence. It is beyond me how anyone could rejoice at that first sentence. I cannot imagine feeling joy because I live in a country where another country makes the rules by which I must live and slaps me down every time I have the audacity to speak out. I'm sorry, but I freely admit to being utterly unable to comprehend how anyone can have that mindset. Independence is normal, after all. I suppose, by implication, that means you are advocating something that is abnormal.
    I respect your right to fight for independence. I personally feel you're wasting your time, but it's your time.

    The majority of Scots feel the same as I do. Therefore I don't think it's fair to consider us 'abnormal'. Abronmal different from what is usual or average, especially in a way that is bad:

    I'm happy that we remain in the UK, that might change if a Scottish government could run the country well. To date that has been far from the case. I believe FM contenders admitted as much. I'm sorry, but the SNP/Greens have made a pigs ear of running Scotland. Polls show disatisfaction with the SNP/Greens is growing. I hope the independence vote will now get split between Alba/SNP/Greens allowing Labour in.

    Scotland will improve with a Westminster and Holyrood Labour government. It's coming.

  2. #22

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    Well, I'll tell you something Goodfellers. The mere idea that anything is better with Labour in power is truly stretching the bounds of credibility. They have done nothing for Scotland, ever. Well, OK the NHS. I'll give you that. Instead the Scottish people are still paying the price for Labour's utterly disastrous PFI policy.

    And how long have they been promising to abolish the HoL? I'll tell you how long - exactly the same amount of time they have been nominating and electing Labour peers to it.

    The last Labour/Lib Dem Scottish Government even sent money back to Westminster saying everything in Scotland was just tickety-boo and that there was nothing north of the border that needed any money spent on it.

    I know you are an ardent Unionist but open your eyes, please. Nothing is better in Scotland when Labour is in power.

  3. #23
    Join Date
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    Highlands
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corky Smeek View Post
    I just checked the etymology of the word "bellend".

    I'm sorry to have to tell you that, whilst it may have its origins in these islands, it is considered to be a slang, vulgar and offensive term. And there you are, advocating using only the King's English, but using such a derogatory term. I may have to get on to Buck' House to check what they think. I think The Tower of London awaits you for implying the King would ever approve such a disrespectful term.

    I believe our Majestic King has referred to his son Harry as a "total bellend" in the past, therefore its accepted as Kings English.
    His dearly departed mother the late Queen Elizabeth II also referred to Harry as a "bloody throbber"

    Both of which are apt for yourself
    W.A.T.P.

  4. #24
    Join Date
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    Location
    Highlands
    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corky Smeek View Post
    Well, I'll tell you something Goodfellers. The mere idea that anything is better with Labour in power is truly stretching the bounds of credibility. They have done nothing for Scotland, ever. Well, OK the NHS. I'll give you that. Instead the Scottish people are still paying the price for Labour's utterly disastrous PFI policy.

    And how long have they been promising to abolish the HoL? I'll tell you how long - exactly the same amount of time they have been nominating and electing Labour peers to it.

    The last Labour/Lib Dem Scottish Government even sent money back to Westminster saying everything in Scotland was just tickety-boo and that there was nothing north of the border that needed any money spent on it.

    I know you are an ardent Unionist but open your eyes, please. Nothing is better in Scotland when Labour is in power.

    What exactly is good about Scotland with SNP/Greens in power?

    Pay the most taxes of anyone in UK
    NHS crap
    Police force crap
    Public transport crap
    Roads in worst state ever
    A96 and A9 still awaiting upgrade
    Drug deaths off the charts
    Ferrys costing billions still in dock
    Missing money
    Sex pest scandals
    "Forgetful" first ministers

    Its just a total catalogue of failures and sleaze
    W.A.T.P.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by mi16 View Post
    What exactly is good about Scotland with SNP/Greens in power?

    Pay the most taxes of anyone in UK
    NHS crap
    Police force crap
    Public transport crap
    Roads in worst state ever
    A96 and A9 still awaiting upgrade
    Drug deaths off the charts
    Ferrys costing billions still in dock
    Missing money
    Sex pest scandals
    "Forgetful" first ministers

    Its just a total catalogue of failures and sleaze
    Well, if you view the SG as a failure it's your fault for voting No in 2014. Your No vote ensured that the Scottish Parliament remained largely toothless with extremely limited powers to raise its own revenue. As consequence you left Scotland with a "pocket money economy" (Ruth Davidson) with more than half of the revenue raised in Scotland being retained by Westminster. This meant HMG could:-

    fix London's sewers - designated a UK infrastucture project
    build the London Docklands Light Railway - designated a UK infrastucture project
    waste vast amounts of money failing to build HS2 - designated a UK infrastucture project
    squander billions upon billions of ús making a complete mess of the covid response
    make Tory donors rich, at your expense, by fraudulent public contract deals
    make a total dog's dinner of Brexit
    make everyone in the country, except the super rich, significantly poorer

    If you and all you fellow No voters had not been duped by project fear you could have been living in a very different country with who knows, perhaps even a Labour Government in power.

    The utter hypocrisy of claiming that the current SG has failed is mind blowing. With the limited resources at its disposal it has:-

    abolished bridge tolls
    provided free prescriptions
    built a new Forth crossing - not designated a UK infrastructure project so paid for by the SG
    re-opened the Borders railway - not designated a UK infrastructure project so paid for by the SG
    begun dualling the A9 - not designated a UK infrastructure project so paid for by the SG
    built the Aberdeen by-pass - not designated a UK infrastructure project so paid for by the SG
    increased child payments by 150%
    provided free bus travel to over 2 million Scots
    100% increase in the health and social care budget
    the best performing health service in the UK
    introduced the Adult Disability Payment
    free tuition fees
    baby boxes
    free personal and nursing care
    free period products
    free school meals for the youngest school pupils
    free dental care for the under 26s
    overseen the building of more than 100,000 affordable homes.
    made Scotland virtually self-sufficient in domestic renewable energy
    free eye tests for all
    lowest crime rates in the UK

    I could go on and on. Considering how financially constrained the SG is I think they have done brilliantly.

    You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Highlands
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corky Smeek View Post
    Well, if you view the SG as a failure it's your fault for voting No in 2014. Your No vote ensured that the Scottish Parliament remained largely toothless with extremely limited powers to raise its own revenue. As consequence you left Scotland with a "pocket money economy" (Ruth Davidson) with more than half of the revenue raised in Scotland being retained by Westminster. This meant HMG could:-

    fix London's sewers - designated a UK infrastucture project
    build the London Docklands Light Railway - designated a UK infrastucture project
    waste vast amounts of money failing to build HS2 - designated a UK infrastucture project
    squander billions upon billions of ús making a complete mess of the covid response
    make Tory donors rich, at your expense, by fraudulent public contract deals
    make a total dog's dinner of Brexit
    make everyone in the country, except the super rich, significantly poorer

    If you and all you fellow No voters had not been duped by project fear you could have been living in a very different country with who knows, perhaps even a Labour Government in power.

    The utter hypocrisy of claiming that the current SG has failed is mind blowing. With the limited resources at its disposal it has:-

    abolished bridge tolls
    provided free prescriptions
    built a new Forth crossing - not designated a UK infrastructure project so paid for by the SG
    re-opened the Borders railway - not designated a UK infrastructure project so paid for by the SG
    begun dualling the A9 - not designated a UK infrastructure project so paid for by the SG
    built the Aberdeen by-pass - not designated a UK infrastructure project so paid for by the SG
    increased child payments by 150%
    provided free bus travel to over 2 million Scots
    100% increase in the health and social care budget
    the best performing health service in the UK
    introduced the Adult Disability Payment
    free tuition fees
    baby boxes
    free personal and nursing care
    free period products
    free school meals for the youngest school pupils
    free dental care for the under 26s
    overseen the building of more than 100,000 affordable homes.
    made Scotland virtually self-sufficient in domestic renewable energy
    free eye tests for all
    lowest crime rates in the UK

    I could go on and on. Considering how financially constrained the SG is I think they have done brilliantly.

    You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone.

    all these things you claim as free are a complete myth.
    it’s only free if you are a layabout non tax payer.
    All of these “free” things are the reason the taxpayer pays more tax in Scotland than anywhere else in the UK
    well that and to fill out the pockets of Sturgeon and her cronies

    The A9 duelling was set a deadline of 2025, this will be missed by many years.
    the A96 duelling was pledged in 2011, we are in 12 years on and not a single bit has begun.
    AWPR a disaster of a job, ended up costing 3x the estimated cost coming in at over 1bn
    Last edited by mi16; 14-Apr-23 at 20:57.
    W.A.T.P.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulmar View Post
    Yes, but meantime a huge number of ordinary Scottish women are very upset and scared by this and if you read some of the things high lighted by For Women Scotland you can totally understand why.
    I'm sorry Fulmar I forgot to address the points you made. I share your concerns completly. The reasons you have pointed out are the same ones which give rise to my reservations over this legislation.

    As I see it there are two separate issues here - firstly there is the matter of whether this legislation is good law and secondly does another legal jurisdiction have the right to step in to veto it.

    On the first point I think the intention behind this bill is to reduce inequality in Scotland. I think that is very laudable and it has my complete support. Unfortunately, I think this bill has been hastily written and passed without due consideration being given to the concerns of many people in Scotland. It was a good idea badly carried out. I would suggest that it is in fact a bad law; not in intention but in enactment.

    However, it was passed by the Scottish Parliament entirely in accordance with all the procedures and practices of that body. As Gronnuck has pointed out it passed into law with a considerable majority and with cross-party support. There can be no doubt that the will of Parliament was satisfied. That being said it is outrageous that HMG is intent upon preventing enactment of this law.

    It is a bad law but it is our bad law and no other body has the right to interfere (I accept that techincally The Scotland Act 1998 provides for Westminster to veto certain actions taken by our Parliament). However, the Scotland Act was proposed by a governing party with strong unionist credentials and it was enacted by the Westminster Parliament who wished to limit the powers of the new Assembly (now Parliament).

    It's also worth bearing in mind the reasons HMG object to this bill. It is not because it is bad law but rather because it effectively creates different standards of equality on these islands. That is a pretty poor excuse given that matters such as marriage law have been different for centuries. HMG are not worried by the many concerns over the bill. All they are intent upon is not allowing Scotland to appear a more progressive and socially responsible country than the rest of the UK which might show up the social conservatism that exists at the heart of government.

    In summary, therefore, I think the Gender bill is well-intentioned but technically bad law. However, the Scottish Parliament has the right to make its own mistakes and to fix them when it sees fit and not when Westminster says so.
    Last edited by Corky Smeek; 14-Apr-23 at 22:07.

  8. #28

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    But how are we (and I speak as a woman here) supposed to welcome the passing of a bad law that leaves many women so worried- especially on the issue of rape crisis/sexual abuse services in which the victim cannot now be guaranteed to be seen/supported by a woman only. I want things to be better and more accepting of transgender people but not at the expense of others and one groups rights should not put those of another group at risk. It seems to me that there are unintended consequences of this law and that is why there has been intervention.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulmar View Post
    But how are we (and I speak as a woman here) supposed to welcome the passing of a bad law that leaves many women so worried- especially on the issue of rape crisis/sexual abuse services in which the victim cannot now be guaranteed to be seen/supported by a woman only. I want things to be better and more accepting of transgender people but not at the expense of others and one groups rights should not put those of another group at risk. It seems to me that there are unintended consequences of this law and that is why there has been intervention.
    Well said!

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulmar View Post
    But how are we (and I speak as a woman here) supposed to welcome the passing of a bad law that leaves many women so worried- especially on the issue of rape crisis/sexual abuse services in which the victim cannot now be guaranteed to be seen/supported by a woman only. I want things to be better and more accepting of transgender people but not at the expense of others and one groups rights should not put those of another group at risk. It seems to me that there are unintended consequences of this law and that is why there has been intervention.
    You have summed up the dilemma posed by this legislation very well and I agree with the sentiments you have expressed. It's a horrible situation and there is no easy solution.

    Firstly, you have a substantial section of society who have real and legitimate concerns about the unintended consquences of this bill. Secondly, there are the rights and concerns of those for whom this bill is supposed to provide legal protection. And then there is a constitional issue of huge significance for Scottish democracy. As I said in an earlier post I think this bill was conceived through good intention but hastily assembled and without sufficient thought for the wider consequences. I don't know how you can reconcile all of these issues given all that has happened recently.

    The only thing I do know for sure is that HMG did not, no matter what they or the Daily Mail say, intervene to protect anyone's rights. They did it to prevent dual standards of equality in the UK, particularly since the bill made rUK look less equal than Scotland.

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