Boris Johnson

**Oddquine** · 12-Apr-20, 10:28

Originally Posted by Fulmar

Boris has made a good start, saying rightly that he owes his life to the NHS and staff at St Thomas's and thanking them. To be expected, I know, so only time will tell how much of a change the experience has wrought in him.

That wasn't a good start.....he hasn't had one of them at all yet, that was damage limitation...too little, too late. Weasel words don't provide ventilators, or PPE for NHS workers and others who require them because they can't closet themselves at home...or bring anyone who didn't NEED to die back to life

**Fulmar** · 12-Apr-20, 11:09

What would you rather then? That he went around saying that he had 'battled it' and got better because he is 'strong' or some such rubbish? I have not ever been a supporter of Boris or the Tories but am prepared to give him a chance to do better now, having been through what, for any and all of us, would be a a life changing experience. There was always gong to be a loss of life in this country (and sadly, half of those on ventilators have died), as there has been in Scotland too from Covid-19 as this has arisen out of the stupidity of the whole world and is not, actually, the sole fault of Boris and the Tories.

**aqua** · 12-Apr-20, 11:25

Agreed. Now let’s wait and see what Boris does differently from now on.

**Corky Smeek** · 12-Apr-20, 12:02

Originally Posted by aqua

Agreed. Now let’s wait and see what Boris does differently from now on.

Nothing at all I suspect, except perhaps loads of promises and pledges that will go unfulfilled. Economics will always trump politics and the free market will dictate as it always does. All the proposed good deeds will disappear like snow off a dyke if it's going to cost money particularly with the economic impact of Covid19 still to be fully appreciated.

**Fulmar** · 12-Apr-20, 12:08

The shut down/collapse in the economy has, can and will cause deaths too.

**Corky Smeek** · 12-Apr-20, 12:12

Originally Posted by Fulmar

The shut down/collapse in the economy has, can and will cause deaths too.

But it will disproportionately affect the poorer folk in the country emphasising once more that we are not all in this together.

**aqua** · 12-Apr-20, 12:30

Originally Posted by Corky Smeek

Nothing at all I suspect, except perhaps loads of promises and pledges that will go unfulfilled. Economics will always trump politics and the free market will dictate as it always does. All the proposed good deeds will disappear like snow off a dyke if it's going to cost money particularly with the economic impact of Covid19 still to be fully appreciated.

I’d like to be a bit more optimistic, but you’re probably right...

**Alrock** · 12-Apr-20, 13:49

Originally Posted by Fulmar

The shut down/collapse in the economy has, can and will cause deaths too.

Once again the numbers will be dictated by how well the Goverment manage the situation.

**Oddquine** · 12-Apr-20, 18:35

Originally Posted by Fulmar

What would you rather then? That he went around saying that he had 'battled it' and got better because he is 'strong' or some such rubbish? I have not ever been a supporter of Boris or the Tories but am prepared to give him a chance to do better now, having been through what, for any and all of us, would be a a life changing experience. There was always gong to be a loss of life in this country (and sadly, half of those on ventilators have died), as there has been in Scotland too from Covid-19 as this has arisen out of the stupidity of the whole world and is not, actually, the sole fault of Boris and the Tories.

HE doesn't need to say he "battled it" or "got better because he was strong", his Tory sycophants and the Boris fan-club in the country say it for him, ad nauseam.

He could apologise for the Tories ignoring the 2016 pandemic simulation report when they could have been gradually building up stocks of essential equipment (or giving the NHS enough money to do so)...and he could apologise for initially, and for too long, putting the health of the economy ahead of the health of the population.

I don't think Boris Johnson will change...I don't think he'll even get round to being up-front about the actual numbers of deaths outside hospitals in the UK due to coronavirus...far less do anything to get the likes of PPE for those at the coronavirus coal-face, be that current medical staff, carers, etc still expected to go to work, retired emercency service personnel returning to help at this time, or the volunteers who have registered to help. Heck, with people having to go out to work in essential services, and calling on volunteers to help,without providing adequate protection, he is still pursuing the original "herd immunity" plan, even if under another name.

I won't be holding my breath waiting for Boris to have a "road to damascus moment".

**dc1** · 13-Apr-20, 20:47

i did know there were so many experts on the org i am sure nicola will be calling you for advise soon.

**aqua** · 15-Apr-20, 11:37

Unfortunately, we are experts relative to most people who work in the media and in politics. How often have you seen the media and politicians announcing the bleeding obvious several weeks after we’ve come to the same conclusions here?

**Oddquine** · 15-Apr-20, 19:23

Originally Posted by dc1

i did know there were so many experts on the org i am sure nicola will be calling you for advise soon.

You don't have to be an expert to recognise the difference between competence and incompetence. You don't have to be an expert to recognise the difference between a known and proven liar, who gets called a hero by his supporters because he managed to "beat" the coronavirus he caught because he didn't stick to his own rules, with the help of an ICU bed and a handy ventilator "in case" he needed one......and a real hero who worked in a hospital/care home/other essential services without any/adequate PPE, caught coronavirus and died.

Despite what the media and his supporters say, Boris didn't "take one for the team", unless they mean the team of brain-dead Tory sycophants...the ones who have genuinely taken it "for the team" of the general population are the dead doctors, nurses, care workers etc who are no longer with us to get clapped for at 8pm, or have chinese lanterns floated for them, because that is all they are worth to our society, it seems...they certainly don't appear to be worth infection prevention equipment or a decent pay.

**Corky Smeek** · 15-Apr-20, 19:36

Wow. I think that must be what they mean when someone says, "giving it both barrels". Brilliantly done.

**Fulmar** · 16-Apr-20, 11:32

I have someone very dear and close to me, a nurse on the front line in London who was self isolating last week due to very mild symptoms (thinks she probably got it on London transport not on the ward) but now back at work this week- and she is doing her job because she wants to help and knows that she can.

**dc1** · 16-Apr-20, 11:34

so depressing on here and by the way i have never voted tory in my life and am 75 years of age

**Fulmar** · 16-Apr-20, 12:28

Tell me this Oddquine. Firstly, in your view, have all the doctors and nurses who have died in China, Europe and throughout the world all died due to lack of PPE? Secondly, are their deaths also somehow attributable and traceable back to Boris and the Tories?

**Oddquine** · 16-Apr-20, 13:53

Originally Posted by Fulmar

I have someone very dear and close to me, a nurse on the front line in London who was self isolating last week due to very mild symptoms (thinks she probably got it on London transport not on the ward) but now back at work this week- and she is doing her job because she wants to help and knows that she can.

And you don't think she, and others like her, deserves adequate protection for doing that job, despite her personal reasons for doing it (bearing in mind we don't yet know if catching coronavirus and recovering from it gives immunity to future infection)? If she probably got it on London Transport, does that not signal a blatant failure by the authorities regarding practising what the Government preaches, and an equally blatant failure by the Government for leaving local government bodies free to decide when/if/how they respond to the lockdown? We have all seen photos of the likes of the tube which seemingly has cut trains, so packing more people into fewer carriages.....and we have all seen photos of people arriving in airports from elsewhere in the world with no attempt made to quarantine or test them...and where I am, we still have the MOD carting people from elsewhere in the UK to perform non-essential maintenance on bases. One rule for us, it seems..and another one for anything connected to the Government.

I was interested in the release of the stockpile of PPE equipment to English care homes and domiciliary care providers. Given that the first confirmed cororonavirus sufferer arrived in the UK in late January and was confirmed in February, why was there still a stockpile of PPE equipment from PHE available for sale/distribution half way through April? Should that not have been brought out much sooner...and then maybe Scottish and Welsh Care homes etc would have been able to buy enough PPE supplies to protect those who needed protection? As someone with three grandchildren, who all have young families, working in the care sector in Scotland, I wonder how much the stockpiling by PHE contributed to the shortage of necessary protective equipment in the months between February and April in all areas of essential services in the whole UK...and the cynic in me wonders how much of this stockpiled equipment originated as a donation by the likes of Turkey and were meant for the UK and not for England only.

Better Together? A nation of equals? Aye, right!

**Oddquine** · 16-Apr-20, 14:49

Originally Posted by Fulmar

Tell me this Oddquine. Firstly, in your view, have all the doctors and nurses who have died in China, Europe and throughout the world all died due to lack of PPE? Secondly, are their deaths also somehow attributable and traceable back to Boris and the Tories?

I don't know...do you? You are trying to deflect...of course those deaths in other countries have nothing to do with Boris and the Tories.

BUT Boris and the Tories could SEE what was happening in the rest of the world. They KNEW what was working and what was not by the time we got our first case in the UK in January/February....and they sat on their hands. with their thumbs up their back passages and did NOTHING of use or ornament until 23rd March, ten days after the likes of Spain and Italy instituted a lockdown...and even then the UK one was half-hearted and not a strict lockdown. The 1,708 deaths in the UK to date are a result of Boris and company, despite the evidence from elsewhere in the world, trying to do it the cheap way, the way which would have the least bad effect on the economy, by letting the virus run riot if it wanted. Everything the UK Government has done has been too little and/or too late...so of course they have to take some measure of blame for unneccesary deaths...particularly those deaths within the NHS and care sector which were as a result of inadequate PPE. It is just luck, it seems to me that people in hospital for other reasons have not caught coronavirus there, given that testing of staff is not a priority despite the virus being symptomless in the earliest days.