Remain in the EU?

[DSTOTM]

I don't quite understand it, why did the majority of the Scottish population vote to remain in the EU and why does Nicola Sturgeon want to remain in the EU? I thought her general idea was for Scotland to be an independent country, free from the shackles of "Westminster" and all that but she teamed up with "Westminster" to remain in the EU and now we have voted to leave the EU she is calling for another referendum on Scottish independence but is adamant Scotland did not vote to leave the EU?

I am no political expert but do understand the meaning of the word "independence":

The fact or state of being independent.
"Argentina gained independence from Spain in 1816"
synonyms: Self-government, self-rule, home rule, self-legislation, self-determination, sovereignty,autonomy, non-alignment, freedom, liberty.

From what I can understand, Nicola Sturgeon wants to break up the United Kingdom and wants Scotland to be an independent country BUT she wants Scotland to remain a member of the European Union? How does that all add up?

The UK voting to leave the EU is now being called "independence day", ie: we will soon be free from the bureaucracy of the EU and free to run our country as we see fit without having to kowtow to Brussels.... theoretically the UK will be an independent country once again. That's true independence isn't it?

Nicola Sturgeon has a slightly strange take on the meaning of independence, she wants Scotland to be independent from the rest of the UK but wants Scotland to be part of the European Union. That just doesn't make any sense, whatsoever, to me and seems to be extremely contradictory. Independence is independence, you can't say you want to be totally independent but insist on receiving a £1,000 monthly allowance from your parents can you?

Maybe I am missing something very obvious here but, for the life of me, cannot understand why Nicola Sturgeon wants to remain in the European Union if an independent Scotland is such a great thing?

My gut feeling is that she will throw a spanner into the works and make it up as she goes (whatever the scenario is) just to further her career and get a foot inside the door that is known as the "establishment". If the majority of the UK had voted to remain in the EU I am confident she would have turned that around to a good reason for another referendum too.

It's a bad sign when a politician doesn't accept the decision of the people and keeps insisting on yet "another" referendum until they get their way. I trust I am not the only person who sees this?

[tonkatojo]

Most reasoned and common sense post on this subject to date, no doubt it will be pulled to pieces shortly.

[DSTOTM]

Most reasoned and common sense post on this subject to date, no doubt it will be pulled to pieces shortly.

Thank you. I doubt "Nicola Sturgeon" will manage to pull to pieces the Oxford dictionary with regard to the meaning of "independence". Independence is independence, period! No such thing as independence AND relying / sharing with others..... that's known as a union

Union:The action of joining together or the fact of being joined together, especially in a political context.

United:
Joined together politically, for a common purpose, or by common feelings.

Independent:
Free from outside control; not subject to another's authority.

Everybody is free to pull the Oxford dictionary to pieces BUT it is the language we all understand...... if I say I am "independent" then I am........ Nicola Sturgeons take on the word "independent" is alien to me as I don't recognise her idea of independence, it is totally alien to the actual meaning of the word "independence".

[Headwark]

I could not have put it better myself. Thanks for a great post.

[DSTOTM]

I could not have put it better myself. Thanks for a great post.

My pleasure Sir, thank you.

[tonkatojo]

Thank you. I doubt "Nicola Sturgeon" will manage to pull to pieces the Oxford dictionary with regard to the meaning of "independence". Independence is independence, period! No such thing as independence AND relying / sharing with others..... that's known as a union

Union:The action of joining together or the fact of being joined together, especially in a political context.

United:
Joined together politically, for a common purpose, or by common feelings.

Independent:
Free from outside control; not subject to another's authority.

Everybody is free to pull the Oxford dictionary to pieces BUT it is the language we all understand...... if I say I am "independent" then I am........ Nicola Sturgeons take on the word "independent" is alien to me as I don't recognise her idea of independence, it is totally alien to the actual meaning of the word "independence".

She will be saying the Oxford dictionary is not applicable to Scotland and a Scottish SNP edition is being formed as we type .

[Alrock]

On the pure definition if Independence then there is no such thing as an Independent country.
You have International laws, Maritime laws, World trade laws, Laws of war, etc...

In fact the only country I can think off that can even remotely be described as Independent is North Korea & do you really want to emulate them?

[mi16]

On the pure definition if Independence then there is no such thing as an Independent country.
You have International laws, Maritime laws, World trade laws, Laws of war, etc...

In fact the only country I can think off that can even remotely be described as Independent is North Korea & do you really want to emulate them?

well lets accept that international laws as that and disregard them from the debate.
It is a bit odd that the Nats bang on about wanting to be free but are also desperate to be part of the EU.
Personally I felt that the country has messed up by voting us out, but hey thats democracy.

[Rheghead]

Independence is different to sovereignty, what we mean in everyday language as Scottish Independence is actually Scottish Sovereighty, the right to choose against the ability to choose.

I think we need full Scottish Sovereignty on a permanent basis to be able to have the right to choose its destiny and what comes with that sovereignty is the ability to choose to be a part of sometime that is bigger and better, ie the EU. whereas the whole point about being in the UK is that we are better together, the assumption that whatever we collectively decide as the UK is in all our interests. But it is absolutely clear that the majority of England and Wales are capable of making the biggest acts of stupidity to their own country in vault face to all the experts advice on economy, science and the wishes of the people of Scotland and northern Ireland.

Why would we want to be a part of that? Brexit was a monumental act of self-harm to our economy, environment and hard fought rights and culture and it was taken by people outwith the borders of Scotland. Surely we aren't too small and thick to realise that actually as the people of Scotland we can make the right decisions that govern our lives?

[janeyj]

Can someone tell me if I'm wrong? My simple mind (Oh dear!) believes that Scotland recently voted to stay part of the UK (which was part of the EU). OK. Now my simple mind tells me that, with the UK voting to leave the EU, Nicola thinks it's better for Scotland to ditch the rest of the UK in favour of the rest of Europe. Confused.com?

[Rheghead]

Can someone tell me if I'm wrong? My simple mind (Oh dear!) believes that Scotland recently voted to stay part of the UK (which was part of the EU). OK. Now my simple mind tells me that, with the UK voting to leave the EU, Nicola thinks it's better for Scotland to ditch the rest of the UK in favour of the rest of Europe. Confused.com?

but the UK that Scotland voted to remain part of has changed significantly. The Leave side said that 70% of all UK laws were EU law, that will not be the case after Brexit. The UK is 70% different now, legally and constitutionally.

[Kevin Milkins]

Something that I find amusing about percentages is that when you look at them in their full context it a whole new game changer. The population of the UK is a bit over 65 million and the population of Scotland is a bit over 5 million.

[sids]

The SNP can be pro-EU and anti-England.

Seems simple enough.

[DSTOTM]

It's turning into a bit of a shambles and Nicola Sturgeon wanting another referendum will not help matters. Two years ago the majority of Scotland voted to remain in the UK, the UK has voted to leave the EU (Scotland is part of the UK) so let's concentrate on that and get the best we can from it...... to throw a Scottish referendum into the ring is just absolute madness in my opinion. Let's do our best to make sure this break with the EU is in our best interest instead of concentrating on superficial things like Nicola Sturgeon's ambition to become a credible figure in Scottish history.

The SNP don't appear to be very "democratic"..... there is a referendum, they lose and they don't accept the outcome of the referendum so they demand another referendum claiming that the last referendum was fuelled by "project fear" as if to say "the 55% that voted to remain in the UK are gullible idiots who were forced by "fear" to vote to remain in the UK. What happens after the next referendum if the majority of Scots vote to remain in the UK? Another referendum?

It's absolutely diabolical, these people are causing division and hatred and are certainly not following the will of the people, they are out for themselves and quite happy to cause division and hatred as long as they reach their own personal goals.

Let's look at a four horse race..... you have cumberland sausage, Golden Heather, Mick's trick and pride of the valley in the race.......

Pride of the valley wins the race by one length. That's it, race is over, the winner is announced and everyone lives with it.

Nicola is one of these people who will always insist that it wasn't a fair race and Pride of the valley only beat Golden Heather by one length so will demand that the race is run again until "eventually" her choice of horse wins.

What's the point of voting if the outcome is challenged by the loser? What's the point of a game of football if the outcome is challenged by the loser? What's the point of democracy if the democratic process is not respected and upheld?

I really do fear for Scotland if the likes of Nicola get their way..... do you honestly think you'd get a word in edgeways if she was in control? It would be her way or no way..... people who seemingly have all the answers are the most dangerous types of people.

As I say, I am not a political type but can clearly see through the Smokescreen that is Nicola Sturgeon and she is a trouble maker who will do anything she can to further her own goals..... she will even BEG the EU to remain part of the bandwagon whilst claiming to the Scottish population that "independence" is good for Scotland.

Scottish people are NOT stupid but Nicola obviously thinks they are......... she is as transparent as cling film and anybody who thinks she is doing the UK or Scotland any good needs to get their hearing checked out

[Rheghead]

There has been a lot of talk online about some sort of vote at Holyrood to allow the brexit vote to apply to Scottish law. Technically Scotland could veto Brexit. But why? That would be like the tail wagging the dog as it was a UK vote, we are 5 million they are 60 million.

But why? Westminster could get all bitchy about it and block the indyref2 in that case. I say there doesn't need to be a high stakes poker game where the first one to blink loses, I say get the cards on the table, sit around the table and talk it through. Westminster and Holyrood could simultaneously draft legislation to make sure that both demands are passed through both houses one being dependent on the other. Everyone is happy then.

[dc1]

very good post DSTOTM its spot on

[DSTOTM]

Mr. Spock....... I agree with you BUT this is not a Scottish / English thing..... it's a UK thang!

Scotland, Wales, NI and England!

Why "Westminster and Holyrood"? (England and Scotland) what about the Welsh and Northern irish people too?

There is definitely anti English sentiment / racism in all your posts.

[DSTOTM]

They are 60 million

And your point is?

[Rheghead]

There is definitely anti English sentiment / racism in all your posts.

I am English you idiot.

[DSTOTM]

Can you also define "they"? What are they exactly? Your enemy?

I have done a bit of research and you are English.