Cost of the 2012 Olympics

[Dusty]

I saw on today's news that the projected cost of the 2012 Olympics had risen from two point odd billion pounds to nine point something billion pounds. Part of the funding is to be met from the National Lottery proceeds to the tune of half a billion pounds or thereby.
Apparently all this equates to £115 for every man, woman and child in the UK.
Never saw that one coming.

[johno]

I saw on today's news that the projected cost of the 2012 Olympics had risen from two point odd billion pounds to nine point something billion pounds. Part of the funding is to be met from the National Lottery proceeds to the tune of half a billion pounds or thereby.
Apparently all this equates to £115 for every man, woman and child in the UK.
Never saw that one coming.

Aye and it,ll end up like the scottish parliament building. It started at £40 m & ended up at £400+ Boy was that some under estimate

[JAWS]

And that massive increase is before they've even bought a single spade to start on the foundations.

[badger]

I'm not even surprised any more. It's rather the same as the complaint in the Initiatives thread - the government is completely incapable of any kind of forward planning. Somebody thinks - that's a good idea, let's do it. So they do, and then afterwards they start to wonder what happens next (e.g. Iraq but let's not get started on that again). Someone actually admitted that they didn't budget because they didn't think they would win .

I heard one minister (can't remember who) say that every child and teenager in the country would be enthused or inspired or some such by the Olympics being held here. Really? Somehow doubt it myself. Now if the money was being spent on decent sports and arts facilities for every school in the country - then, yes maybe. No doubt it will be good for the area but they should be doing that anyway, they don't need the Olympics.

They think it will make money in the long run but somehow I doubt that will be paid back to us. What do MPs/MSPs know about running a large building project - I mean really understand how to cost it properly? Absolutely nothing because they're all amateurs. They've had no training for the jobs they do, so they make a mess of it. Sarah Beeny (tv) would make mincemeat of them - wouldn't that make an interesting programme?

[j4bberw0ck]

They think it will make money in the long run

So did Montreal, 1976 hosts, who only finished paying off their debts in 2006!

Los Angeles and Atlanta apparently made money but both were heavily criticised for commercialism (what did you expect in America?) and rules introduced top prevent out-and-out commercialism in the future, which doesn't bode well for London's elastic budget.

This is interesting, too - Chicago, wannabe hosts for 2016.

What do MPs/MSPs know about running a large building project - I mean really understand how to cost it properly?

Badger, if you'll excuse my saying so, the problem runs a step deeper than that. What do governments know about finding people who do know? Clearly, nothing. The first budget estimates for London excluded VAT which alone will be almost £1 billion based on current figures. I mean, how stupid is that? Not the first time either; the Student Loan Company had to be bailed out years ago when they realised they hadn't budgeted for VAT when EDS submitted their first invoice for development and services ... including large sums for VAT

Back to incompetence again - after the NHS, the CSA, the ID card episode, road pricing, Passport Office biometric passports, the Home Office, replacement of Navy assets (no, not Trident, just frigates, though I'm beginning to wonder...........)

You'd think even the most stupid elector would have learned the lesson by now: If you give governments things to do and don't have mechanisms to rein them in, there is no apparent limit to their stupidity, mendacity and ability to throw good money after bad. 'Cos it's only taxpayers' money, after all! Lots more where that came from!

[Angela]

Somebody thinks - that's a good idea, let's do it. So they do, and then afterwards they start to wonder what happens next ... Someone actually admitted that they didn't budget because they didn't think they would win .

You're right, badger - there's so much short-term thinking.

I'm not at all surprised either...and I dread to think how many billions the final bill will come to.

Kids might be rather more inspired if there were better sports facilities for them in their own locality....and improvements at that level would, imo, be a much better use of the lottery money apparently being diverted to the Olympics.

[Angela]

The first budget estimates for London excluded VAT which alone will be almost £1 billion based on current figures. I mean, how stupid is that? Not the first time either; the Student Loan Company had to be bailed out years ago when they realised they hadn't budgeted for VAT when EDS submitted their first invoice for development and services ... including large sums for VAT

Oh my, Jw0ck, you've just reminded me of a project I worked on a few years ago, for an agency of the Scottish Executive. My job was projecting costs over a five year period if a new pay structure was implemented....
which I completed....
that was when I discovered that the project manager had failed not only to allow for the differences in employer's N.I. ....but to allow for any N.I. at all

Back to the drawing board there, then...

[Dusty]

The news item equated the revised cost of staging the games to the number of schools, hospitals and rail carriages that could be provided for the same amount of money.
We are talking about thousands of millions of pounds, sums that I cannot even imagine the purchasing power of, but I do know that I feel that it could be better spent to benefit the population of the country as a whole instead of those in a relatively small area.
The sheer arrogance of the Government in assuming the the majority of the population want to have the Olympic Games staged in this country and then going ahead with the application is unbelievable.
To my mind, these "National Prestige" events should be the subject of referenda if the Government of the day want a clear mandate.
As has been said, this looks like a repeat of the Millenium Dome, Wembly Statium and the Scottish Parliament Building in terms of escalating costs.
If only a decision to recind the Olympic application could be forced on the Government (if that's what the majority of people wanted)....

[badger]

J4bberw0ck - you are so right. They are either too stupid or too arrogant to take advice. Sometimes (well, mostly actually) think as soon as MPs get any sort of office they lose all touch with reality. They simply have no idea either how the world works or what people are really thinking, hence idiotic statement about the effect these Olympics will have on the young.

Angela - we definitely haven't heard the end of this costing. It will go up and up and they will have no clue how to deal with it.

I've never understood why, when ministers are either first appointed or swap jobs, they seem able to do it without any training for the post they're taking over. Where else would that happen?

[Cattach]

I do not want to start an independence argument on this link but just count up the projects fully backed by the national government at the expense of Scotland. The Dome, Wembly stadium, the 2018 World Cup and the 2012 Olympics. It is claimed Scotland gets more money from the exchequer than England on a per capita basis. I think if you count up the projects that go south and the spin off to local business you will find that we do not get a lot. Even our own national football stadium, Hampden Park, took years to update and was hardly financed by direct government money.

We do not need the 2012 Olympics in Britain, it will cost too muchand I am sure the vast majority outside London area are either against it or not interested.

There will be a vociferous lobby of the sporting fraternity making a noise in support but remember they are the elite and their supportsers not the run of the mill people who tajke part in sport for fun. Many supporters will be parents on a 'ego trip' trying to get fame through their families success in sport.

[scorrie]

The Olympic Games died some time ago. They have nothing whatever to do with Sport anymore. Professional athletes, rank corruption and greed have replaced the original ideals. Every sport under the sun is creeping in and it is sad to see professional Basketball, Tennis etc players lining up to compete.

It's all about money now and at the recent European Indoor Championships the Ladies Polevault record holder was not there because there was no money on offer for breaking any records!!

I find it sad that a country with China's human rights record should be hosting the next games but then it's all about politics and greasing palms nowadays.

Baron de Coubertin must be turning in his grave at this gravy train.

[j4bberw0ck]

that was when I discovered that the project manager had failed not only to allow for the differences in employer's N.I. ....but to allow for any N.I. at all

Let me guess.......... he / she was promoted!

[JAWS]

[QUOTE=Cattach;201993]I do not want to start an independence argument on this link but just count up the projects fully backed by the national government at the expense of Scotland. The Dome, Wembly stadium, the 2018 World Cup and the 2012 Olympics. [QUOTE]And Wales, N. Ireland, the West Country, the North of England all benefited from the things you mentioned? To pretend Scotland is the only place to suffer is nonsense.
I would suggest that N. Ireland has more cause for complaint than Scotland. There is no way that they can get to London by Bus or Train and even by car they have more of a problem.

[peter macdonald]

"The news item equated the revised cost of staging the games to the number of schools, hospitals and rail carriages that could be provided for the same amount of money.
We are talking about thousands of millions of pounds, sums that I cannot even imagine the purchasing power of, but I do know that I feel that it could be better spent to benefit the population of the country as a whole instead of those in a relatively small area."

How right you are and like the folks in Northern Ireland we will have no benefit from this at all ...Its just another ego trip by politicans who are so so out of touch with real life But hey its a "National" event now according to some of the MPs from the SE of England so we shall all reap the benefit(in our case zero) and smile when we put our hands in our pockets to pay the bill
PM

[Cattach]

[QUOTE=JAWS;202244][QUOTE=Cattach;201993]I do not want to start an independence argument on this link but just count up the projects fully backed by the national government at the expense of Scotland. The Dome, Wembly stadium, the 2018 World Cup and the 2012 Olympics.

And Wales, N. Ireland, the West Country, the North of England all benefited from the things you mentioned? To pretend Scotland is the only place to suffer is nonsense.
I would suggest that N. Ireland has more cause for complaint than Scotland. There is no way that they can get to London by Bus or Train and even by car they have more of a problem.

Read posting carefully!! Did not say Scotland was the only one that did not benefit. I was talikg of the Scottish situation as regards Government in Westminster. Read twice, think twice, wont need to reply at all.

[mccaugm]

Aye and it,ll end up like the scottish parliament building. It started at £40 m & ended up at £400+ Boy was that some under estimate

When I heard the quotes thats exactly what I thought. Its gonna be a massive white elephant just like the Dome is/was?? What does Scotland, the rest of England and our wee bit of Ireland get for their £115 proposed expense? Nout I reckon, or am I just a wee bit cynical?

[Dusty]

or am I just a wee bit cynical?

Isn't a Cynic just a Realist with experience?

[JAWS]

[QUOTE=Cattach;202425][QUOTE=JAWS;202244]

I do not want to start an independence argument on this link but just count up the projects fully backed by the national government at the expense of Scotland. The Dome, Wembly stadium, the 2018 World Cup and the 2012 Olympics.

Read posting carefully!! Did not say Scotland was the only one that did not benefit. I was talikg of the Scottish situation as regards Government in Westminster. Read twice, think twice, wont need to reply at all.

I simply looked at the examples you gave, which are all in London and fully backed by Central Government.
What make Scotland different in that respect to any other part of the British Isles outside the South East of England?
Why is Wales, the North of England and more especially N Ireland in any different a position to Scotland? London means London and not everywhere in Britain except Scotland.

It was you who singled Scotland out as having especially suffered with respect to the Government in Westminster and those particular projects as if it were the only place.
I simply pointed out that other areas suffer precisely to the same extent also and that Scotland was no different to any of them.

[theone]

this equates to £115 for every man, woman and child in the UK.
Never saw that one coming.

£385 less for every man, woman and child than the Dounreay decommisioning programme!

[theone]

[QUOTE=johno;201880]Aye and it,ll end up like the scottish parliament building. It started at £40 m & ended up at £400+ Boy was that some under estimate

Very true. This, I DO NOT understand!

The contractors willing to take on the work should give a quote then work to it. If I agreed to build a house for £100k then the builder came back and said "job done, that's £1m please" I'd tell him where to stick it.

Same with Wembley. The Australians won the contract by submitting the lowest bid. After a while, "difficulties" have caused the price to rise. My view is that any "risk should be bourne by the people undertaking the work.