We know who you are

**JAWS** · 11-Mar-07, 18:06

The was an interesting article in yesterdays Daily Mail which describes a trend I find rather disturbing
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...0&in_a_source=

Over three and a half thousand schools have bought equipment which is being used to Fingerprint children. One excuse is that it will help prevent truancy though I cannot imagine how. Can you imagine the outcry if employers tried to use such methods to “prevent absenteeism” amongst their workforce?

Dudley Council have placed information on their website describing how to fingerprint children.

One school in Cumbria has photographed and fingerprinted children as young as three. They were told by the headmaster that they were playing a game of "Spies" and there was no need for them to tell their parents what had happened. (At least he didn't tell them he would come and get them if they did!)
He makes the pathetic excuse that he was naive and was surprised by the backlash from parents. Oh yes! Then why was there a need to tell the children not to tell their parents?

It would appear that parents have no right in law to prevent the information being given to other parties, all that is required is that they are told it has happened. I have no idea what laws there are to prevent the "other parties" from misusing or passing the information to heaven knows who.

I have been accused, in the past, of living in a “fantasy world” when I have warned of the risk of Government misuse of the amount of detailed information it wishes to gather about us by way of Identity Gathering but in my wildest moments I never envisaged three year olds being photographed and fingerprinted like common criminals.

It gives a whole new meaning to the Government boast that, “We know who you are and we know where to find you!”

**brandy** · 11-Mar-07, 18:51

i was fingerprinted in primary.. and had fotos taken.. by the police..
but the reasoning behind it was not to police kids, but more for their protection.
we were all finger printed.. with our parents there.. (they had to sign wavers)
so that (god forbid) anything ever happened .. kidnapping ect... that the police would have each childs info on file.
for those reasons i think it is a good idea..
also in america.. when a baby is born they take their hand and feet prints and put on their birth cirtificate at birth..
just in case of any mix up.. rare but it can happen.. and it makes a wonderful keepsake

**horseman** · 11-Mar-07, 20:52

Saw the article Jaws, and like you was disturbed by it.

**justine** · 11-Mar-07, 21:03

Disturbing

yes and with the parents consent would not have made such a stink.The safety of the kids comes first and i hope they can come up with a way that is safe and reliable for all children.......Will have to wait to see what comes of this to make a real judgment....me not being the judgemental type......

**Ricco** · 11-Mar-07, 21:28

Ah, if those schools had only a bit more sense than they have money. We haven't purchased any fingerprinting equipment but we have been 'printing for year. The kids do it willingly and we have a long history of who has sat where - the evidence is all over the monitors. Dog, what a mess!

**JAWS** · 11-Mar-07, 21:33

My main concern is that these actions are being done with a deliberate attempt, and not just by one school, to cover the fact up. Where it is discovered the excuse is always along the same lines, "We didn't think anybody would mind because it's for your own benefit."

Brandy, I take it that the hand and footprints of babies are given to the parents and not "stored on a secret database", especially with this Governments form for failing to safeguard such information getting into the hands of criminals and heaven only knows who else.

We only hear about the ones they discover through their own greed or stupidity. For every one they discover you can guarantee there are a dozen other such breaches that they have no idea about.

Criminals have hacked into Civil Service Personnel Files and used the information to create false IDs in order to make false claims for Tax Credits then how safe is any other information which they keep. The fraud was carried out on a massive scale prior to it’s discovery and there was never the slightest hint of how it came to light.
It’s quite possible that it was only when some of their employees got the “knock on the door” for defrauding the system that it was ever discovered.

Had the criminals used details from a more random section of the population it’s quite possible that any one of us could have been trying to convince the authorities that we were squeaky clean.
“So you have made all these claims and you don’t know how it happened? Do you really expect me to believe that? You must think I’m stupid, come with me!”

**darkman** · 11-Mar-07, 21:34

Seems like we or rather the government is going down a very dangerous path here, we are already having our freedoms eroded away in the name of security and heading to what amounts to a police state which our forefathers fought and died to prevent, the implications of this are just too horrifying to contemplate fully.

**brandy** · 11-Mar-07, 21:59

i know my mum has my birth caertificate with my hand and feet prints on it.. its laminated! *smiles*
theres a case in america right now where this would come in very handy!
a woman dressed as a nurse walked into a hospital.. into a mothers room.. and took the baby from the mother.. explaining that they needed to run a few tests.. then walked out with the baby.. the baby was thankfully found the next day.. but its braclet had been removed.. and medically they were very concerned as baby was jaundiced and needed treatment.
not to mention the anguish the parents have gone thru..
the outcome could have been a whole lot worse.. but this time it wasnt.

**JimH** · 12-Mar-07, 01:36

I'm not sure I understand the hype about ID cards , fingerprints and DNA.
I've nothing to hide, If the only way to make our country safe is by their use, then so be it.
THe same people that protest against what could help, are the same people the criticise the security forces for not doing the best they can with one hand tied behind their back.

**darkman** · 12-Mar-07, 02:13

Immigrants should be fingerprinted and have a sample of their dna taken as this would be a step towards routing out the illegals but I see no reason why people who are born in this country, (any race, colour or creed) should be dealt with in the same manner unless they are suspected of a crime.

**JAWS** · 12-Mar-07, 06:38

If you are not worried about ID Cards then take a look at what the Government intends to do in order to recoup the estimated 500 Million a year costs.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

And you think if you have done nothing wrong there is nothing top fear? The intended cost will be £93 each for you to get one but that will only pay some of the cost and the card will hold 49 different pieces of information about you. If anybody thinks they will be a simple card saying “This is me” is sadly mistaken.

There will be 44,000 different organisations which will have the right to access the information you will have to provide. They, of course, will have to pay for the privilege and guess who will end up paying for that. What is to ensure that such information, once gathered by an organisation, is not used for illegal purposes.

A German Scientist has already found a way of creating a forged biometric card. How long did it take him to manage such a difficult and highly technical feat? Oh, all of two to three hours! So how long before the criminal fraternity are churning them out like confetti.

Whilst I cannot verify the information I heard a report recently that the Biometrics for such cards will only last for a couple of years before it becomes useless.
If that is true then every couple of years, “New Card? £93 please!”

Is that very different from the Poll Tax. And if they are estimating a £93 cost you can guarantee that, like the London Olympics, buy the time the cards come into use the cost will have rocketed.

**brandy** · 12-Mar-07, 08:32

good god.. thats ridiculous!
an id card should be like a photo drioving licence..
a pic of you .. and basic info.. name addy height and eye color.. maybe weight if their cheeky..

**fred** · 12-Mar-07, 10:22

Originally Posted by JimH

I'm not sure I understand the hype about ID cards , fingerprints and DNA.
I've nothing to hide, If the only way to make our country safe is by their use, then so be it.
THe same people that protest against what could help, are the same people the criticise the security forces for not doing the best they can with one hand tied behind their back.

"I'm not worried I've done nothing wrong" he said as he climbed into the cattle truck.

Terrorists don't worry me, it's the government that worries me, they've killed a lot more people.

**Blazing Sporrans** · 12-Mar-07, 11:22

This is a serious issue and one which should disturb most parents. I'm all for empowering the forces of law and order, however as a parent, I'd be aghast if my child's primary school had carried out such an act and then tried to conceal it from parents in an underhand manner.

On the other hand, I'm dismayed that Jaws reads the Daily Mail.....

**JimH** · 12-Mar-07, 17:32

Originally Posted by fred

"I'm not worried I've done nothing wrong" he said as he climbed into the cattle truck.

Terrorists don't worry me, it's the government that worries me, they've killed a lot more people.

Well I did not vote for this lot of parliamentary Pillocks, I never have done because the have always been Spend, Tax and Legislate, totally predictable. Apart from squeezing every drop of blood they can get out of us, they have not managed to kill me yet. THey came close a few times whilst I was a squaddie.
The terrorist is a totally different animal and totally unpredictable, as are all maniacs.
Being very individual, I can't see me in the back of a cattle truck for what ever reason, and even sheep have to be lead.