Scotlands Future - The Long awaited independence referendum prospectus

[orkneycadian]

I am pleased to see that the long awaited prospectus on the independence referendum has finally been published by the SNP. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to open it, as the page linked to on the BBC website, www.scotreferendum.com repeatedly causes my browser to crash. However, that aside, I am looking forward to getting stuck into it, and reading about all the answers the SNP will have for all the questions that have been lying open for so long now.

I look forward to a good debate on the matters, and wonder now that there is such a big document laid out, that if the site admin here might consider making a new (temporary) top level section of 'e org, on Scottish Independance, then sub sections on all the relevant areas (of which I am sure there are quite a few in the prospectus)

[Phill]

Took me quite a while to download a copy, hope this isn't a sign of future IT infrastructure! All very glossy and wordy, lacking 'answers' though, seems most 'answers' are left for the future elected govt to sort out.

[wavy davy]

I've read hundreds of Proposals, Business Plans and the like. If I had read one like this, with so many uncosted promises and untested assertions I would have binned it in a heartbeat. So, logically it's down to the Bravehearts of this country.

[ducati]

I've not even looked at it. It is of no interest to me at all.

[wavy davy]

I've not even looked at it. It is of no interest to me at all.

Know what you mean, but for me it was the final check on the rhetoric v the hard facts.

[mi16]

I have not and will not read it, I'm not interested in what fatboy is selling.

[RagnarRocks]

Seems to me more like a delusional fools wish list he can't actually promise anything that has still to be negotiated unless he doesn't actually know what negotiation means

[Mr P Cannop]

you can get it sent to you in the post

[billmoseley]

I think it can be summed up for Mr Salmon in 2 words. WISH LIST

[golach]

you can get it sent to you in the post

why get it sent by post when you can download it.

[Big Gaz]

surely you mean P*SH LIST????

[Green_not_greed]

Same thing. Its a sales brochure from the team trying to sell the product. Not an impartial review of what independence would mean. Don't forget that!

[cptdodger]

And if anybody saw "Have I got News For You" tonight, you will see what a laughing stock the referendum has turned this country into.

[Mr P Cannop]

you can refer to it at any time

[orkneycadian]

I have managed to get this opened from the Scottish Government site rather than the scotreferendum site that kept crashing the browser. Its a slightly worrying start if the campaign cannot make the information freely available to us "masses" without technology issues. Still waiting for the paper version to appear through the letterbox.

Anyway, from the quick initial leaf through, it appears heavy on aspirations, light on facts, and not a lot different from the stuff thats already been bandied around in the media already. Conspicuous by its absence is the figures that would make up the "business plan". The figures that prove, as far as predictions can, that Scotland can afford independence. There appears to be some very light numbers in Annex C, which is supposed to be a "detailed analysis", but the furthest ahead any of them seem to go is 2016/2017. Given that the referendum is in 2014, and should it yield a Yes vote, independence in to be in 2016, then the "business plan" at best shows figures 2/3 years ahead of the referendum and 0/1 years ahead of the actual independence. If I went to the bank with a business plan to borrow (even more) money to erect a new byre, the bank would be looking for projections for 5 years.

There appears to be more column inches in the local (Orkney) press given over to the Our Islands - Our Future - (Our Oil) campaign (that last bit is a minor embellishment of mine....) than there is on the referendum. What the SNP prospectus doesn't seem to address is how the 4/5 of the population who reside in the central belt are expecting to benefit from the 4/5 of the oil reserves that are located off the islands, and how the rScotland would fare if they didn't have access to the revenues generated from Island Oil. Aside from that, the income from oil is fairly predictable (downwards) for more than a year or 2, so I would have expected that even if the Islands were prepared to share the oil with rScotland, then a reasonable business plan for a reasonable period ahead could be written.

[Phill]

I have managed to get this opened from the Scottish Government site rather than the scotreferendum site that kept crashing the browser. Its a slightly worrying start if the campaign cannot make the information freely available to us "masses" without technology issues.

I did get a copy downloaded but then after it opened I had ACCESS DENIED! (But my IP address was showing as in Laarndun)

[Green_not_greed]

I have managed to get this opened from the Scottish Government site rather than the scotreferendum site that kept crashing the browser. Its a slightly worrying start if the campaign cannot make the information freely available to us "masses" without technology issues. Still waiting for the paper version to appear through the letterbox.

Anyway, from the quick initial leaf through, it appears heavy on aspirations, light on facts, and not a lot different from the stuff thats already been bandied around in the media already. Conspicuous by its absence is the figures that would make up the "business plan". The figures that prove, as far as predictions can, that Scotland can afford independence. There appears to be some very light numbers in Annex C, which is supposed to be a "detailed analysis", but the furthest ahead any of them seem to go is 2016/2017. Given that the referendum is in 2014, and should it yield a Yes vote, independence in to be in 2016, then the "business plan" at best shows figures 2/3 years ahead of the referendum and 0/1 years ahead of the actual independence. If I went to the bank with a business plan to borrow (even more) money to erect a new byre, the bank would be looking for projections for 5 years.

There appears to be more column inches in the local (Orkney) press given over to the Our Islands - Our Future - (Our Oil) campaign (that last bit is a minor embellishment of mine....) than there is on the referendum. What the SNP prospectus doesn't seem to address is how the 4/5 of the population who reside in the central belt are expecting to benefit from the 4/5 of the oil reserves that are located off the islands, and how the rScotland would fare if they didn't have access to the revenues generated from Island Oil. Aside from that, the income from oil is fairly predictable (downwards) for more than a year or 2, so I would have expected that even if the Islands were prepared to share the oil with rScotland, then a reasonable business plan for a reasonable period ahead could be written.

So are you advocating independence for the Isles then ? Its not the first time I've heard that one....

[RagnarRocks]

If Scotland can have independence how could you deny the islands their right to self determination. If that's what they wanted surely it would be their democratic right to it along with all the trimmings an independent country would have.

[Green_not_greed]

If Scotland can have independence how could you deny the islands their right to self determination. If that's what they wanted surely it would be their democratic right to it along with all the trimmings an independent country would have.

I'm not denying the islands rights to anything. Just highlighting what a complete mess this selfish SNP wish could cause. And if they don't get the oil rights, their main source of income vanishes.

[orkneycadian]

Island independence is an interesting concept that does highlight some of the aspects of independence, that the Yes campaign would rather gloss over. For example, suggesting to rScotland that they might have no entitlement to the Islands oil, is just the same as Scotland suggesting that to the rUK. In the case of the latter, the Yes supporters would think that its rightfully Scotlands oil, but I doubt that they would want to consider, even for a second, that its Island oil and not rScotlands.

Like rScotland, Orkney and Shetland can look to their past to a time where we were not part of our present "parent union country". Before 1468, Orkney and Shetland were not part of Scotland, just the same as Scotland was not part of the UK before 1707. An important difference is that whilst Scotland fully signed up to the Union in 1707, there remains some doubt about Orkney and Shetlands legality of becoming part of Scotland. We were, after all, merely pawned until Norway could get the cash together for his daughters dowry.

I suspect that if there ever came a serious independence bid by the Islands, then the SNP would be forming the core of the "Better together" campaign. Thats where it becomes a bit hypocritical, as rScotland would become the poor piggy in the middle between the temporarily oil wealthy "United Islands" and the rUK.

Anyway, we are some way off Island Independence yet! But it would have been interesting if Scotlands Future had actually acknowledged "Our Islands - Our Future - (Our Oil)", as it appears to be more important to the local authorities in Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles than the independence referendum is.