When in Rome....

[cuddlepop]

When we were in Inverness yesterday Mr Cp was in Mablins buying something when an overbearing cutomer was complaining about his house's Gaelic name.I think his words were something like:I'm sick and tired of having to spell my Gaelic house name........discussion continued about how we all live in one country so why did we need to use another lanuage.?:
To say Cp was speachless is an understatement

[percy toboggan]

When we were in Inverness yesterday Mr Cp was in Mablins buying something when an overbearing cutomer was complaining about his house's Gaelic name.I think his words were something like:I'm sick and tired of having to spell my Gaelic house name........discussion continued about how we all live in one country so why did we need to use another lanuage.?:
To say Cp was speachless is an understatement

Another numpty. They are everywhere. They do need to be told though otherwise they will never realise their own stupidity, and how the wiser world looks upon them with incredulity. If he was Rnglish it would be all the worse. He should be deported, and dragged back down the A9/A74/M6.

[cuddlepop]

Percy he was but didn't want to say as that would start a racist thread and there banned

[percy toboggan]

Percy he was but didn't want to say as that would start a racist thread and there banned

Doesn't that illustrate how silly things have become?
I'm Rnglish meself

[cuddlepop]

My late father was English but prefered to say he was from the Channel Islands...enoegh said

[percy toboggan]

My late father was English but prefered to say he was from the Channel Islands...enoegh said

eew, aren't they a bit French ? LOL.

[cuddlepop]

When it suits Percy,when it suits.
My surname sounds French and the grief i got in high school because i couldn't pick the lanuage up was unbelievable.In the end mt dad told me to tell the teacher that i could only learn Patroit(cant spell it) that the French they use

[JAWS]

OK. Try telling me how "Worsley Mesnes" is pronounced. The second word is pronounced like a word in perfectly normal usage.

Try a simple name like Whalley or Claughton.

How about Gwel-An-Mor? What area does that come from? Scotland, England, Wales or Ireland?

No, I've not made any up, they are all genuine place names and it's all quite simple, no trick questions.
Scots only please, no 'ignorant foreigners'. .

Oh, and chummy in Inverness? What a 'Plonker'! There is nothing to stop him calling his house something nice like "Primrose Cottage"!
I once asked somebody locally, and not a white settler either, how a Gaelic place-name on the West Coast was pronounced to be met with, "How would I know!" so it's not only the English who have problems.
However, I'm afraid the 'Plonker' would have got no joy from me if he had moaned about it either. He sounds to me like he would be the sort embarrassment any Nationality would wish had been born elsewhere!

[Metalattakk]

I once asked somebody locally, and not a white settler either, how a Gaelic place-name on the West Coast was pronounced to be met with, "How would I know!" so it's not only the English who have problems.

Why would he know? I'm born and bred in Thurso. Lived here all my life, yet I know virtually nothing about the Gaelic language.

And considering the Gaelic language hasn't been spoken in this part of the county for possibly hundreds of years, why should I know any Gaelic? Just look at the place-names in the east of the county - there's virtually no Gaelic ones, they're nearly all of Viking or Norse derivation.


So here's a question for those who know the answer ('cos I certainly don't) - When was the last time Gaelic was the native language of Caithness?

[fred]

So here's a question for those who know the answer ('cos I certainly don't) - When was the last time Gaelic was the native language of Caithness?

Gaelic has never been the native language of Caithness, the east of the county, like Orkney, has never spoken it.

Gaelic was dying out in the west of the county too by the late 1700s, because English was the language used in schools but then the herrin boom and the clearances brought a lot more Gaelic speakers into all parts of the county.

In 1839 the Church stopped the gaelic services at Bruan church, prior to that the services had been read in both English and Gaelic, it being more or less on the boundary between the English speaking and the Gaelic speaking parts of the county.

[Metalattakk]

Gaelic has never been the native language of Caithness, the east of the county, like Orkney, has never spoken it.

This was my understanding also.

Are there any on-line references you could point me to to back this up. I've searched and searched but perhaps I'm not using the right search terms, or maybe there aren't any on-line references available?



Edit: Of course, I should have checked Wikipedia first off, shouldn't I? They have the following text -

Scottish Gaelic was spoken in the west of the county into the 20th century, although it is believed to be extinct now. It is sometimes erroneously claimed to have never been spoken in Caithness although interestingly the Gaelic name for the region, Gallaibh, translates as "Land of the Gall (non-Gaels)" . The language boundary changed over time, but the New Statistical Record in 1841 says,

"On the eastern side of [the Burn of East Clyth] scarcely a word of Gaelic was either spoken or understood, and on the west side, English suffered the same fate".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caithness

Interestingly (or maybe not ) the Gaelic name for the region, "Gallaibh" will be pronounced "Gollach" will it not?

[Oddquine]

Why would he know? I'm born and bred in Thurso. Lived here all my life, yet I know virtually nothing about the Gaelic language.

And considering the Gaelic language hasn't been spoken in this part of the county for possibly hundreds of years, why should I know any Gaelic? Just look at the place-names in the east of the county - there's virtually no Gaelic ones, they're nearly all of Viking or Norse derivation.


So here's a question for those who know the answer ('cos I certainly don't) - When was the last time Gaelic was the native language of Caithness?

Dunno....but in the 1891 census, my great great great grandmother and the two daughters still living with her spoke Gaelic and English. She was born in the Halkirk area in 1796.

[Metalattakk]

Aye but in the 2001 census, weren't there more than a few people listing "Jedi" as their religion? Point being that a census doesn't necessarily provide the truth.


But....I take your point.

[JAWS]

According to the 2001 Census, "Jedi Knight" is the Fourth Largest Religion in the UK!

[fred]

Edit: Of course, I should have checked Wikipedia first off, shouldn't I? They have the following text -

Or if you had checked out my web site, http://graven-images.org.uk you would have found the entire 1840 Statistical Account. for Latheron.

[Oddquine]

Aye but in the 2001 census, weren't there more than a few people listing "Jedi" as their religion? Point being that a census doesn't necessarily provide the truth.


But....I take your point.

Not nowadays, that's true, but in those days, the census wasn't done by filling in a form in your own time, but by people actually going round the doors.......more like the voter's roll used to be compiled.

So given slightly more respect for officialdom not producing facetious replies, it is probably safe enough to assume that the details are broadly correct.

[cuddlepop]

Living on Skye every road sigh or place name has a Gaelic alternative.
My spelling is terrible at the best of times and with having no Galelic i alwas use the English alternative that gets up some locals noses but I'm useless with lanuages.
The man in Mablins like Jaws said could have renamed his house using the English,which I think translated to house on the hill.
He chose not too and would rather moan about Gaelic names.Somehow I cant see the Gale complainingdown south that everything was only in English

[emb123]

Living on Skye every road sigh or place name has a Gaelic alternative.
My spelling is terrible at the best of times and with having no Galelic i alwas use the English alternative that gets up some locals noses but I'm useless with lanuages.
The man in Mablins like Jaws said could have renamed his house using the English,which I think translated to house on the hill.
He chose not too and would rather moan about Gaelic names.Somehow I cant see the Gale complainingdown south that everything was only in English

Precisely! No country has the monopoly on ignorant plonkers with loud-mouths (which is usually the way it works). England does however seem to have an unusually generous allocation . One of the main reasons I wish to vacate the place.

Whilst as a school-kid on French exchange I was wandering round the Palais de Versailles with my french partner and we happened to wander past an unbelievably loud American lass who was declaring to room (the hall of mirrors) whilst chatting amiably to her friend in what I now know to be a deep Texan drawl "Well personally, I cain't STAND the French!". I responded by announcing in my best posh British accent at similar volume to my french partner "do you know, I've always felt that Americans were so arrogant and loud-mouthed" which provoked a few broad smiles and claps. The young lady concerned appeared to be looking for a hole in the ground to crawl into. (I don't have any particular problem with Americans actually, just that one).

I suppose one should allow people freedom of speech, even when they are stupid, but there's no reason to listen and not exercise ones own freedom of speech. Timing is key however.

It is a shame to generalise and criticize an entire race for the sake of the odd offensive individual sub-type. Tad xenophobic. Better just to see the idiot for what he is (as if anyone here has any difficulty doing that!).

[garycs]

A name doesn't have to be Gaelic to cause confusion. I lived in Cumbria until recently which, like Caithness, has a lot of Norse/Viking derived names. Both counties have a place called Brough. In Caithness it seems to be pronounced like "broch", in Cumbria it's "bruff". To make matters worse, near the Cumbrian Brough there is a hamlet callet Brougham, pronounced "broom"!!

[JAWS]

That was exactly my point earlier. "Mesnes" in Worsley Mesnes is pronounced "Mains" and as far as I can gather derives from Norman French. The place was close to where I used to live and the name's meaning always eluded me. It was only after I moved to Caithness and discovered why there were so many "Mains" in the area that I realised it probably has exactly the same meaning.

Two of the names I mentioned, Whalley" and "Claughton" have exactly the same problem which garycs mentioned. Each has three different pronunciations to my knowledge depending on what area it's is in and possibly more I don’t know about.

"Gwel-An-Mor" is Cornish and I've no real idea of it's origins because Kernow (Cornwall) has a language unique to the area. I've no doubt somebody will know it's origins, I certainly don't!
Cumbria also had a distinct language which many of the old shepherd used to use when counting their flocks, I don't know if they still do.

The shame is, IMO, that so many localities are losing their individuality and are now using "Standard English" which itself is only a "Dialect" which it has been decided we should all use.

"Gutters", locally has a completely different meaning, which caused me some confusion at first, where I'm from. "Gutters" are the dips at the side of a road or the troughs round a roof where the water runs away into a "Suff" (drain).
I discovered the local meaning of "Mind the Gutters" when I was ankle deep in the darned stuff!