Devo Max a thought

[squidge]

A friend of mine posted this elsewhere and I wondered what others think about Devo max

Devo max is a tool to split the unionist vote. If it's allowed the Independence vote will come out on top. The SNP will campaign for this option to be allowed right up until the last minute where they will 'allow' themselves to be pushed into a position where it's a straight yes/no vote (Possibly in return for po...wers for a legally binding referendum) Then they'll campaign for a yes vote on the basis of the Unionists removing Devo max and the only way to have more powers in Scotland will be independence. Many devo Max supporters will flock to the SNP and it'll be a landslide for independence.

For the SNP, the consequences of a loss are simply another 40 year setback, like we've had since the last referendum. Don't expect them to disappear anymore than you expect pro union Labour to disappear in an Independent Scotland. (I actually think Labour will return to proper socialist politics in an independent Scotland and freeing Labour from London will be good for it.)The SNP will put enough spin on a No vote and accuse Westminster of interference. Ultimately, for the Union to remain and the SNP to cease to exist it will take decades of FAIR government from London, and frankly, that's never going to happen. More likely Scotland will continue to be treated as a vassal state which will cause resentment to continue to grow. The unions best bet here is that by the time we get around to another referendum the oil will have run out in the North sea. (Cross your fingers Scotland can't get any from the North Atlantic!) But by then Scotland wioll probably be a world leader in renewable energy from the vast waves around it as well as the wind.

An independent Scotland might actually be more likely to bring about the end of the SNP.

At the moment there is only one party out there with the interests of the Average Scot at heart. But once they have independence the SNP might very well Schism. Under the banner of independence left wing and right wing political views rub shoulders. (Much like the they do under the banner of the Union) Once the main SNP goal is achieved they might very well split, or lose people to other already existing parties. There is much opinion that the SDA will begin putting candidates forward for election and only don't at the moment because they do not want to dilute the Nationalist vote. Along with a resurgent Labour party that Scots can believe in again and some form of new right wing party, (Because a lot of right wing voters are disenfranchised by the tories) perhaps led by Murdo Fraser, Independence is a much bigger threat to the SNP than remaining in the union

[golach]

A friend of mine posted this elsewhere and I wondered what others think about Devo max

Now squidge that is the big question, what is Devo Max? What will it entail, and bigger still, what does Oor Eck really want if and when Independence is declared, he is keeping very quiet on both issues. This makes me suspicious on him, and I do not trust him anyway, he has shown to me he is just a typical UK politician, out for himself, he is not The Messiah

[billmoseley]

i thought devo max was just pepsi max but better

[theone]

Devo max is definitely just a tool to split the unionist vote.

I agree with sqidge's friend's quote.

It offers the SNP a "mini victory" even if they lose the main referendum, and, at the same time, gives them the opportunity for another "step in their direction" by "chipping another little bit off the UK".

The core ethos of the SNP is not nationalism, it is separatism.

I agree with the piece, that:

An independent Scotland might actually be more likely to bring about the end of the SNP.

But by then, it'd be too late.

And the SNP would have achieved their prime aim.

I am good friends with a senior member of the SNP. I know for a fact that he has a £1000 cask of whisky maturing until "independence day". On that day, his ultimate goal would be reached. The future of Scotland is priority no. 2.

[RecQuery]

From what I can tell every political party in Scotland if not the UK now supports the transfer of more powers to the Scottish Parliament.

We know the Lib Dems are in favour of more powers, because the Scottish Secretary told us so:

The alternative is not the status quo, it’s actually about deciding what other powers Scotland should have within the UK.

David Cameron himself has made his position clear:

And let me say something else about devolution. This doesn’t have to be the end of the road. When the referendum on independence is over, I am open to looking at how the devolved settlement can be improved. And yes, that means considering what further powers could be devolved.

Labour in the UK and Scottish Labour want more, in the words of Alastair Darling:

I don’t think that anybody would argue that the status quo, what we have at the moment, is satisfactory. The settlement reached in 1998 is not what we want at the moment, we need to move on from that.

It appears there is now a general consensus that yet more (but unspecified) powers should be devolved - this wasn't the case a few weeks ago - Why not get on with devolving these (unspecified) powers now, rather than waiting until after the referendum? Could it be that they're lieing, throwing around 'Jam tomorrow' talk to try and manipulate voters.

As for further devolution splitting the vote, that's why having two questions in the referendum is good idea. If anything you could argue that further devolution is more likely to split the independence vote rather than the unionist one. The SNP isn't a one issue party either, that's why they're elected they have coherent and progressive policies.

[Phill]

i thought devo max was just pepsi max but better

Aye, but it has some Irn-Bru in!

[Nick Noble]

From what I can tell every political party in Scotland if not the UK now supports the transfer of more powers to the Scottish Parliament.

We know the Lib Dems are in favour of more powers, because the Scottish Secretary told us so:

More power to Scotland has been official LibDem policy for well over a 100 years (well originally Liberal party policy) indeed if the small matter of the first world war had not intervened Scotland would probably be celebrating 100 years of "Home Rule" in 2014, not having a divisive referendum with the party which advocates independence campaigning to have "devo max" included on the ballot simply because they know their chances of winning the referendum vote are slim without playing political slight of hand games.

What is so difficult to understand.

Independence from the UK - the break up of Great Britain - is a very serious matter and deserves to be treated as the main event, not some side show. The way that Salmond talks up the need for the "devo max" max question to be on the ballot is ridiculous.

Additional powers for the Scottish Government within the UK have absolutely nothing to do with independence, such changes are for the Scottish Government to discuss and negotiate with the UK government, indeed could have been getting discussed since the election of the current Scottish government if it is so important.

Let's have a referendum with a simple yes/no question as soon as possible, and then let the Government of Scotland get on with negotiating with the UK government for all the powers needed to allow the Scottish People to run their own internal affairs within the United Kingdom without the distraction of wanting to run world affairs from Edinburgh.

The people of Scotland are a free and independent people, proud of their long history, and their distinct heritage. Being one of the major constituent parts of the United Kingdom takes nothing away from that.

About the only thing the breaking of the Union achieves is allowing the First Minister the kudos of having his own armed forces and a seat at the table in the UN/EU.