First I've heard about it, it concerns me immensely.Originally Posted by Nick Noble
.Orger
creationist propoganda handed out in Highland Schools
Does it concern anyone else that the Highland Council has seen fit to hand out Advent Calendar CD's to children at Primary schools with content provided by "Answers in Genesis" an american creationist group?
These CD's were produced in the UK under the aegis of the JAM Trust, and evangelical christian organisation.
1K.Orger
First I've heard about it, it concerns me immensely.
1K.Orger
No one should make any decision about this until they view it completely. Then once it has been viewed you will be able to come to a conclusion. I know it does not concern me for I have not seen it. This might change if I ever do see it.
Has anyone viewed this Advent CD?
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.
Edgar Allen Poe
.Orger
My kids got one, they werent bothered about looking at it, so we havent.
Although on the basis of it being Christmas soon, is it wrong for kids to be given material that I assume explains the reasons behind celebrating Christmas? Perhaps I should watch it first and then comment.
However, from some quick reading of the JAM Trust website, I dont have a problem with them thus far. JAM was obviously set up for the same purpose that the Light Factory is in Thurso for kids in the summer and easter holidays.
We child proofed the house..... but they keep getting in!
1K.Orger
Arn't you being a little alarmist with your comment..
Perhaps one should make a statement and let those with children in the 'system' decide...I am sure much thought has gone into such an issue....
.Orger
The JAM (Jesus and Me) Trust is a charitable organisation (OSCR number: SC039855) which was established in Scotland in September 2008.
The purposes of the Trust are the advancement of the Christian Gospel in East Kilbride and its environment.
The background to the trust began in August 2001 when the very first JAM Club was held in Stewartfield. This was a holiday club for local children where they played games, sang songs and learned from the Bible. This was so successful that a weekly JAM Club was organised to take place each Sunday in Stewartfield Community Centre. You can read more about the Jam Club here.
The work of JAM expanded into other areas and the JAM Trust was established to further this work.
The Director of the trust is Dr Nagy Iskander, an associate specialist surgeon at Hairmyres hospital, East Kilbride.
If you would like to know more about us or would like to contact us, please use our contact form
Our mission statement:
The purposes of the Trust are the advancement of the Christian Gospel in East Kilbride and its environment. To run a non-denominational Christian club for children and young adults in East Kilbride and its environs without any cost or charge, to run the club to help children under the age of 16 years to understand the basics of the Christian faith, to develop a healthy lifestyle with good moral standards and encourage youngsters to develop good citizenship and participate in the community which will be run by volunteers operating a strict child protection policy.
The above is taken directly from the JAM Trust website. I cannot see how this is any different from Light Factory in Thurso.
Had a quick look at the Advent CD, none of it concerns me thus far, but perhaps because I had a christian upbringing, and believe Christmas is a time for celebrating Jesus' birth, then they are the reasons I dont have a problem with it.
If I was a non-believer, would I have a problem? No, why would I? If my children brought home material regarding Diwali would I be offended? No. All faiths have a right to be learnt about and if my child showed an interest, I would do all I can to help them understand and I am all for them making their own decisions. Obviously, I cannot force them into a religion, and would never do so, but they have the right to know that there are other faiths to what I personally believe out there.
We child proofed the house..... but they keep getting in!
.Orger
The content of the cd originates with Answers in genesis, they are an american group.
The about us section of their website (answersingenesis.org) states :
Now given that the JAM Trust has given out 450000 of these cd's someone has spent lots of money on this. I am sorry but I am too cynical to accept they have done it simply out of generosity.Our Message
Answers in Genesis is an apologetics (i.e., Christianity-defending) ministry, dedicated to enabling Christians to defend their faith and to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ effectively. We focus particularly on providing answers to questions surrounding the book of Genesis, as it is the most-attacked book of the Bible. We also desire to train others to develop a biblical worldview, and seek to expose the bankruptcy of evolutionary ideas, and its bedfellow, a “millions of years old” earth (and even older universe).
I would have no issue with a traditional advent calendar, something which is clear cut. But something which contains information from a fundamentalist christian sect is in my view not something that should be given to school pupils willy nilly.
I have no problem whatsoever with the LightFactory, they do a fine job. They are totally upfront about their Christian ethos, and work hard to provide a very valuable resource for children in the holidays.
I wonder if people would be so relaxed if Islamic Jihad were handing out CD's celebrating Eid al fitr?
.Orger
Haven't heard of this but it is immensely worrying if it is true. It is bad enough that we brainwash our children with religion at school but this is much more insidious. The creationists are trying to promote a debate between science and religious belief, treating both as competing "theories" to explain how the universe came to be as we see it today. "Belief" is just that - it matters not whether is is the genesis story or the tooth fairy - there is absolutely no evidence to back it up. The scientific description of the universe is based upon sound observation and calculation. Many scientists are also religious so there does not have to be conflict but the creationist movement is anti-science.
1K.Orger
Aye oldchemist, and here's the nub..."We also desire to train others to develop a biblical worldview, and seek to expose the bankruptcy of evolutionary ideas, and its bedfellow, a “millions of years old” earth (and even older universe)."
Do we really want our kids exposed to this?
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease, with 100% fatality." R.D.Laing
1K.Orger
Put it in the bin if you want.
Meanwhile I'm indoctrinating my 4 yr old daughter with the sacred gospels every day just so that she can make an informed choice of what to believe later in life.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
1K.Orger
Christmas is in no way, shape or form Christian, they merely co-opted it - same with Easter. I thought we had this discussion last year.
Also kids are just too young to make any sort of informed choice on stuff like this. We don't expect children to pick a political ideology or even a career track at this point so why religion. As Nick said people wouldn't be so relaxed about it if it was Jihadist or Zionist stuff. I've seen people get all bent out of shape about teaching sexuality and accusing schools of pushing a gay agenda.
1K.Orger
And it is often said that Christmas nowadays is just about commercialisation, well that is true and yet it always has been. In its purest form, the celebration is about seeing longer days as we pass the winter solstice. And from the neolithic period to the late iron age, trade sprung up across Europe which meant people were celebrating the new sun bringing food and wealth.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
1K.Orger
Gawd..Some of you will be Raiding all the Hotels and Motels of the World, and throwing away the Gideon Bibles next!!!!
1K.Orger
This is stuff given out by an American group.
Are they allowed to hand it out in American schools?
D'oH! My brain hurts...
1K.Orger
Now if they put Terry Pratchett's Discworld books in the bedside cabinet, I would be much more appreciative.
Some people are like Slinkies. They're really good for nothing. But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
1K.Orger
Nah.... They can come in handy if you run out of skins....
“We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine....
And the machine is bleeding to death."
.Orger
I read about this in the Hillhead school newsletter.. Any religious material not provided by a neutral organisation being handed out to kids worries me. Especially from Answers in Genesis. Mass emailing of the Highland Council, anyone?
Really, the nativity and all the rest of the Christian mythology should be taught in exactly the same way as, and given no preference over, the just as true mythology of the Greeks and Romans and Norse.
Also, Christmas is far from Christian, it's basically Roman Saturnalia with commercialisation and trees.
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If anyone wishes to email the council the decision to distribute this via the schools was made by Calum Macsween the Acting Head of Education Services. You can find his email address on the highland Council website.
(Or you could try the usual format email address for the highland council which is firstname.secondname@highland.gov.uk (it works)
1K.Orger
There's a Calum MacSween in this....
http://www.freekirkcontinuing.co.uk/...ch Witness.pdf
It's a common name though - a different man I should think.
D'oH! My brain hurts...
.Orger
After reading that, I really despair.. How can anyone actually think like this? The "Obama's Support for Homosexuality" item and the bit about gay minsisters... How can any organisation get away with this kind of disgusting bigotry and not be completely shunned by the civilised world?
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