Allison Hume

[david]

In my opinion, Strathclyde Fire & Rescue should be ashamed in the way this incident was handled. Absolute disgrace.

[Phill]

Sadly this is partly due to the litigious and risk averse culture we have created for ourselves.

A frustrating situation in some cases where emergency services have to stand by and wait as their management will not / cannot allow their crews to be placed at any risk.
Cost cutting reduces training budgets and valuable experience isn't gained, especially in cross / multi service scenarios. And that is when communication starts to falter.

[david]

Sadly this is partly due to the litigious and risk averse culture we have created for ourselves.

A frustrating situation in some cases where emergency services have to stand by and wait as their management will not / cannot allow their crews to be placed at any risk.
Cost cutting reduces training budgets and valuable experience isn't gained, especially in cross / multi service scenarios. And that is when communication starts to falter.

I understand what your saying however what's the difference from going into a unpredictable house fire and a fairly predictable mine shaft? They did have hours to deal with the latter. The senior officers should be sacked IMHO-this woman need not have died... The other thing is that the FF that went down the shaft came back up on the same equipment that could have affected a rescue. Makes no sense!

[bekisman]

The full FAI (Fatal Accident Inquiry) below* but forgive me if I give an outline of what actually happened..

Basically Mrs Hume, fell down a disused mineshaft - she had been there for about 2 and a quarter hours. The Fire Service arrived on scene at 02.27 under command of Watch Commander Christopher Rooney, Mrs Hume was conscious and calling out. At 02.51 the Heavy Rescue Vehicle attended making a total of 18. A Police Officer Sgt Andrew Whittington arrived 03.15.

At 03.16 Fire-Fighter Alexander Dunn, with the approval of Christopher Rooney, donned Safe Working at Height (SWAH) equipment and descended into the hole to asses Mrs Hume's condition, he provided her with blankets and oxygen.

At 03.25 Group Commander Fred Howe took over control from Christopher Rooney, who earlier had taken a decision that a Paramedic from the Scottish Ambulance Service, Martin Galloway - who expressed no difficulty with going into the hole, and had no reservations about doing so - should enter the shaft, using the SWAH equipment to determine Mrs Hume's injuries.

At 04.03 Control of the incident was assumed by Commander Paul Stewart. He had been sent there to manage the media, but on finding he was now the senior officer at the incident, put an immediate stop to Mr Galloway (the Medic) from going in the hole, and ordered the fire-fighters to disengage him from the SWAH harness.

At 04.57 Group Commander Thompson assumed control from Commander Paul Stewart. He had no difficulty with any of the decisions Mr Stewart had made.

Finally at 06.21 Strathclyde Police Mountain Rescue Service set up their equipment and went down, and with the assistance of Fire Fighter Dunn (who had been down there for over three hours) Mrs Hume was brought to the surface at 0742, she suffered cardiac arrest in the course of her retrieval and unfortunately was pronounced dead at 09.30.


Sheriff Desmond J Leslie;
The evidence of Mr Stewart and Mr Thomson was manifest of a fundamentalist observance to the policy defined in the first memorandum without acknowledgment that the second memorandum clearly introduced a degree of flexibility.

The risk assessment carried out by the incident commanders Stewart and Thomson was clearly flawed

There is little doubt that the rank and file fire fighters in attendance were anxious to conduct a rescue as quickly as possible but were prevented from doing so by the superiors.

I acknowledge Mr Alexander Dunn's bravery and selflessness in volunteering to provide succour to Mrs Hume as she lay at the bottom of the collapsed mineshaft.

It has concerned me throughout the Inquiry that the members of Strathclyde Fire and Rescue Service who attended the incident on 28 July 2008 were bracketed into two conflicting camps.

On the one hand there were the very experienced and long serving fire-fighters represented by Mr Rooney, Mr Howe, and Mr Dunn, who were anxious to effect a rescue with the equipment available to them; they could not be described as naive or hot blooded in their anxiety to rescue Mrs Hume from the mine shaft.
On the other hand the two senior incident commanders, Mr Stewart and Mr Thomson, had no hesitation in vetoing the use of equipment which they did not consider was specifically designed, or could be adapted to carry out a rescue or the deployment of fire-fighters who had not been specifically trained for a rescue effort of the type that was required.

I found the evidence of Group Commander Paul Stewart, and Group Commander William Thomson, to be focussed on self justification for the action or non-action taken by them and was without any reflection as to the purposes of this Inquiry and the lessons that may be learned from the rescue attempt. I found their evidence to be bullish, if not arrogant, in their determination to justify the subservience of the need to carry out a rescue to the need to fulfil to the letter Strathclyde Fire and Rescue Service "Brigade" policy.

Mr Stewart, in particular, considered that the rescue operation was "a success".

Unfortunately this was not a successful operation: a woman died who had not only sustained survivable though life threatening injuries, but who had also ultimately suffered and died from acute hypothermia brought about by a prolonged period down a mine shift in which she had been partially immersed, for a time at least, in water. I consider that the views expressed by Mr Stewart and Mr Thomson were of a fundamentalist adherence to Strathclyde Fire and Rescue Service policy.

They rigidly stood by their operational guidelines.

Mr Stewart's evidence, in particular, was self contradictory on a number of matters............
---------------

Sorry about the length of this but my heart goes out to those Fire-Fighters who were initially on the scene and could have rescued Mrs Hume with their own equipment, but were prevented by Senior officers Stewart and Thomson, who were not able to use flexibility in their own interpretation of the 'rules'. Suppose it all boils down to 'following Strathclyde Fire service memorandums' where Commander Stewart's rigid interpretation that this memorandum meant that the SWAH gear could not be used, but it was pointed out in the FAI report that the 27th March memo stated "This guidance does not preclude the use of SWAH equipment to secure any casualty to prevent their further injury or to prevent the deterioration of existing circumstances". basically it was up to a Commanders interpretation.


Having been a Fire-Fighter in WestMids area for 11 years, we were taught to use our initiative, and save life; exactly what those Fire-Fighters tried to do, before being countermanded by a Senior Commander; Stewart who was initially sent to 'control the media'.and supported by Thompson.

These two should hang their heads in shame..

http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/2011FAI51.html

[david]

The problem now being that all LocaL Authority Fire Services will be seen in the same light. Imagine if a FF had refused to go down a shaft when ordered to? So wots happening to these two clowns? Not much by the look of. Bekisman-wot would have been wrong with a short extension ladder rescue like we drilled for in the old days! Too simple probably...

[bekisman]

The problem now being that all LocaL Authority Fire Services will be seen in the same light. Imagine if a FF had refused to go down a shaft when ordered to? So wots happening to these two clowns? Not much by the look of. Bekisman-wot would have been wrong with a short extension ladder rescue like we drilled for in the old days! Too simple probably...

Thought that too - it was 14 metres down, what's wrong with a 13.5 ladder and fire fighters leaning in 19.5 inches? As the report stated those initial blokes were experienced, not hot blooded twats, but were countermanded by jobs worth's who would not have been breaking HSE rules or their own.

It's called a 'Rescue' Service after all..

I don't doubt for one minute that anything will happen to Stewart or Thompson, but those Strathclyde Fire Fighters 'know'...

[david]

Thought that too - it was 14 metres down, what's wrong with a 13.5 ladder and fire fighters leaning in 19.5 inches? As the report stated those initial blokes were experienced, not hot blooded twats, but were countermanded by jobs worth's who would not have been breaking HSE rules or their own.

It's called a 'Rescue' Service after all..

I don't doubt for one minute that anything will happen to Stewart or Thompson, but those Strathclyde Fire Fighters 'know'...

That makes it worse! I thought it was 40m down, yeah you could easliy put a 13.5 metre down a hole that size with the manpower that was available-112kg if my memory serves me. Or even a 10.5m with short extension lashed to it. These two should defo be sacked...

[theone]

After incidents like this, there's always calls for sackings. But are they the best option?

The people involved were wrong. There's no doubt about it.

But they weren't intentionally wrong. They did what they thought was best. Whether that was by following a rule book or making decisions based on their training, they never deliberately caused the death of the woman.

What should be looked as is the rules these people follow, the training they are given, and the appraisal procedure that got them promoted into positions of authority.

I'm sure the root causes of the incident can be found therein. Sacking somebody for a well intentioned misjudgement won't stop it happening again.

[david]

After incidents like this, there's always calls for sackings. But are they the best option?

The people involved were wrong. There's no doubt about it.

But they weren't intentionally wrong. They did what they thought was best. Whether that was by following a rule book or making decisions based on their training, they never deliberately caused the death of the woman.

What should be looked as is the rules these people follow, the training they are given, and the appraisal procedure that got them promoted into positions of authority.

I'm sure the root causes of the incident can be found therein. Sacking somebody for a well intentioned misjudgement won't stop it happening again.

A probationary firefighter could have done a better job than these 2 clowns.

[theone]

A probationary firefighter could have done a better job than these 2 clowns.

Maybe so.

And if so, how did they get into a position of power?

The fault seems to be with the system, and if so that needs changed.

[Corrie 3]

Where have all the "Real" men gone? A real man on that day would have said stuff H&S, stuff the Commanders, stuff the job...there is a woman down there who is dying and I am going to get her out no matter what!!!!! Where have these man gone? I couldn't live with myself if I were there on that day and let this woman die..........Where have all the "Real" men gone!
Are we only left with Wimps???

Shameful and totally unnecessary in my opinion!

C3.................

[david]

Maybe so.

And if so, how did they get into a position of power?

The fault seems to be with the system, and if so that needs changed.

They got their positions by passing exams. When I was in the job, there were plenty of folks who could pass the exams but their fireground ability was questionable, not all I might add. I understand that nowadays the "practical" side of the exam is non fire incident based!!

[Phill]

There are a couple of other background issues with this case that concern me.

Why did they wait so long for the Police MRT? (Are there perceived issues with 'volunteer' services? (I doubt that would be publicly aired)).

And, how much interference is there from Unions with regards to payments for training and equipment classifications?

[theone]

They got their positions by passing exams. When I was in the job, there were plenty of folks who could pass the exams but their fireground ability was questionable, not all I might add. I understand that nowadays the "practical" side of the exam is non fire incident based!!

So there's the problem.

The promotion/assessment system is wrong.

Sacking somebody because they were promoted to a position above their ability is not the answer.

[Phill]

Where have all the "Real" men gone? A real man on that day would have said stuff H&S, stuff the Commanders, stuff the job..

As with many services today, there is a degree of professionalism where you do as your told, even when you don't like it.
Mavericks can, and do, put their colleagues at risk as well as themselves.

County Fire Brigades are incredibly regimented, a good thing in some respects but very bad for top down management on the fireground.
But, you can't have people going off and doing what they think is best, it has to be a team effort led by people with the skills, experience and freedom from court hanging if what they do is with competence and good intent.

[theone]

As with many services today, there is a degree of professionalism where you do as your told, even when you don't like it.
Mavericks can, and do, put their colleagues at risk as well as themselves.

County Fire Brigades are incredibly regimented, a good thing in some respects but very bad for top down management on the fireground.
But, you can't have people going off and doing what they think is best, it has to be a team effort led by people with the skills, experience and freedom from court hanging if what they do is with competence and good intent.

Great post.

Discipline is necessary in any emergency organisation. Emotion and a lack of self control can lead to more trouble than good.

If the woman had died because an overly keen fireman fell down the hole on top of her where would we be? Same situation, just blaming someone else.

If a fireman had become paralysed or was killed during the rescue, who would his wife blame?

This culture of 'no accidents' we have inherited/developed has a lot to answer for. Where there's blame there's a claim............

[david]

So there's the problem.

The promotion/assessment system is wrong.

Sacking somebody because they were promoted to a position above their ability is not the answer.

So we just let these two off then to continue enjoying their inflated salarys then? And what of the next incident they are in charge of?

[Corrie 3]

Great post.

Discipline is necessary in any emergency organisation. Emotion and a lack of self control can lead to more trouble than good.

If the woman had died because an overly keen fireman fell down the hole on top of her where would we be? Same situation, just blaming someone else.

If a fireman had become paralysed or was killed during the rescue, who would his wife blame?

This culture of 'no accidents' we have inherited/developed has a lot to answer for. Where there's blame there's a claim............

So everyone does loads of handwringing and head scratching and let's the Woman die? Brilliant !!! Well done to the lot of them !!!
I hope everyone who attended this incident hangs their head in shame for a very long while, selfish wimps the lot of them!!

C3............

[theone]

So everyone does loads of handwringing and head scratching and let's the Woman die? Brilliant !!! Well done to the lot of them !!!
I hope everyone who attended this incident hangs their head in shame for a very long while, selfish wimps the lot of them!!

C3............

Not what I said, and not what I meant.

And you know it.

[Phill]

So everyone does loads of handwringing and head scratching and let's the Woman die? Brilliant !!! Well done to the lot of them !!!
I hope everyone who attended this incident hangs their head in shame for a very long while, selfish wimps the lot of them!!

Hmm, trolling now methinks.
I do not believe that anyone expected or foresaw the outcome of this poor lady dying. I also believe that everyone there, including the senior officers / commanders, wanted a happy ending.
I believe to try and apportion blame you really need to look far and wide, there are some legacy issues to deal with.

Don't forget, we're sat here in our warm comfy armchairs with full hindsight and a raft of information available to us. Not out at silly o'clock in the morning trying to work this one out.