Norwegian tragedy

[gleeber]

It's been mentioned on another thread that because no one started a thread about the Norwegian tragedy we didnt care enough. I listened to the news early this morning and when I heard the true extent of the murders I was shocked. I didnt think the org was a place to discuss such a horrific event but I'm prepared to do it with respect.

[Metalattakk]

Aye, reading the eye-witness accounts from some of the survivors - it's chilling stuff.

The perp is apparently a Christian Fundamentalist with links to neo-Nazis. I think that should not be understated.

RIP to all concerned.

[golach]

I have two nephews who live in Norway, are married to Norwegians, have Norwegian children, my sympathies are with all the Norwegians parents who are suffering at this moment.

[Liz]

My thoughts are with everyone affected by this terrible tragedy. So many families torn apart.

[JD6400]

Such awful news heartfelt sympathies to all the victims and their families xx

[oldmarine]

It's been mentioned on another thread that because no one started a thread about the Norwegian tragedy we didnt care enough. I listened to the news early this morning and when I heard the true extent of the murders I was shocked. I didnt think the org was a place to discuss such a horrific event but I'm prepared to do it with respect.

Gleeber: Thank you for posting this tragedy in Norway. It's probably difficult to discuss this with respect, but I hope people will do so. It's a true tragedy.

[Garnet]

Those poor souls, how they will cope with such an awful tradgedy doesn't bear thinking about but as a nation together maybe they will. Even their King and Queen sat in the church and cried with them, my heart goes out to them.

[brandy]

was reading about this as well..its heart breaking.. the first i read about it.. they were talking about the guys with boats hearing about it while it was happening and going out to rescue as many kids as they could. then the next was how the killer dressed as a police officer and started gunning down the kids at assembly.
from what i understand Norway has never had anything like this happen before and they are not quite sure how to handle it.
crazy and evil comes in all shapes sizes races and creeds... my heart goes out to all those people and their families that are going thru this.
hopefully this will be an isolated incident.

[John Little]

The question I have been asking myself is 'Is he crazy and evil'?

The problem with this one is that he seems perfectly rational according to his own beliefs.

There are times when a sane person takes on a set of beliefs which are so far removed from what normal humanity thinks that they step beyond what is acceptable into a realm where thinking can be termed 'demonic' for want of a better word.

These are the people we call 'monsters'

I suspect this is one who is not crazy but so twisted and perverted in what he thinks that he is no longer 'human'. If so then 'evil' is meaningless.

How do you deal with a monster?

[brandy]

i think Hitler fits into that category.. just to give an example john.
another one is Charles Manson
two very different ideals and thought patterns but neither thought they were crazy or wrong..
and that they were both right and justified in what they thought and did.

[Aaldtimer]

In the strap line on the BBC world news channel, it was reported that he admitted to both atrocities...but he had done nothing illegal! Eh?

[Metalattakk]

Aaldtimer, he's a religious fundamentalist. He believes that he's right, and everyone else is wrong.

His big hope is that the court hearing at midday today will be broadcast live to the world, so he can state his case and explain why he did what he did.

I seriously doubt the presiding Judge will agree to allow him the oxygen of publicity that he craves.

[scotsboy]

Not sure on the accuracy of this, but have seen it reported that the maximum custodial sentence in Norway is 21 years. Assuming this is correct, the perpetrator will still have a significant portion of his life to enjoy on release.

On John Little's point, I think this guy has been very calculating, and it will be interesting to see the statements made during court appearances. Not seen anything other than media speculation that he is a "religious" fundamentalist, it appears he had extreme political views, but nothing to point to any radical religious beliefs.

[scotsboy]

I have two nephews who live in Norway, are married to Norwegians, have Norwegian children, my sympathies are with all the Norwegians parents who are suffering at this moment.

I echo Golach's sentiments and of course include any others of different nationality who may have directly or indirectly been affected by such a tragedy.

[badger]

There was absolutely nothing Christian about this man and it's a pity he has been labelled as such. Christians should live by the one commandment - love your neighbour (neighbour being everyone). At least the people of Norway did not believe the label as members of many faiths and none gathered in church to mourn, remember and seek comfort. Sad that so many use religion as an excuse for all kinds of violence and atrocities when the original message of all the great faiths is the opposite.

There seems to have been no mention of this man's parents or immediate family. I cannot imagine how they must be feeling unless they are of the same mind as him. So many young lives lost and so many others ruined by terrible memories.

[scotsboy]

How ironic that the actions of someone with alleged extreme right wing politics has caused the liberal and open democratic society in Norway to restrict the observation and reporting of his trial.

[Metalattakk]

Not sure on the accuracy of this, but have seen it reported that the maximum custodial sentence in Norway is 21 years. Assuming this is correct, the perpetrator will still have a significant portion of his life to enjoy on release.

On John Little's point, I think this guy has been very calculating, and it will be interesting to see the statements made during court appearances. Not seen anything other than media speculation that he is a "religious" fundamentalist, it appears he had extreme political views, but nothing to point to any radical religious beliefs.

Fair enough, the religious fundamentalist stuff was reported on radio. I'll hold off on the religion-bashing until the details are fully known.

Good that the judge has indeed refused to allow his testimony/statement to be broadcast live. Can't imagine how it could help the victim's families in any way to hear what he has to say.

[northener]

It will be interesting to see if Norway sticks with it's 21 year maximum custody rule or pushes through some form of retrospective legislation to enable them to keep this mass murderer off the streets.

[Garnet]

His trial goes on just now, behind closed doors as they fear he may have coded messages to start more horrors. It seems he visited England a few years ago to make contact like minded groups there. I agree with Brandy's comparisons and like hitler he wants a 'pure' nation. As for the prison sentence of 21yrs they can overule this at their discretion and it's believed he will never be realeased...according to the news report from 'locals'. As for his parents (if he has any) I think I'd be horrified to even say I was related to him and want to die of shame!

[Whitewater]

Not too sure about this guy, he is perfectly sane, cold and calculating. Creating the bomb diversion in Oslo, dressing as a policeman so as to look like a safe comforting figure and then shooting his victims in cold blood as they approached him. He is supposed to of extreme right wing politics, disagreeing with the imigration policy and then shooting a young men and ladies to emphasize his views? It does not seem to tie up according to my mind set. But I guess we will get all the so called experts of the world trying to analyse his motives.
Whatever the outcome it is a tragedy of immence proportion for the Norwegian people.