Tory election policy, 1850

[Humerous Vegetable]

So, Auntie Bella wants to lower the school leaving age to 14 for kids with apprenticeships. Will there be a sudden upsurge in wee boys being shoved up chimneys to save wear and tear on the brushes? Shame we can't send them down the mines anymore, seeing as how we don't have any now. This is supposed to be what the Tory policy forum calls "an evolving policy". It appears to be evolving backwards until we have 7 year old drummer boys going to Libya.

[rich62_uk]

They tried this down south in a particular area, it failed.

The 'children' that wanted to leave school and take this up was normally children who couldn't cope with school and yet they was being sent to college one day a week. Guess what happened ?

They couldn't cope with college and neither could the college lecturers cope with the kids who had the same problems with school....

[northener]

So, Auntie Bella wants to lower the school leaving age to 14 for kids with apprenticeships. Will there be a sudden upsurge in wee boys being shoved up chimneys to save wear and tear on the brushes? Shame we can't send them down the mines anymore, seeing as how we don't have any now. This is supposed to be what the Tory policy forum calls "an evolving policy". It appears to be evolving backwards until we have 7 year old drummer boys going to Libya.

And if the school leaving age is raised, no doubt there'd be accusations of trying to keep the dole queue figures down.

If I'd been offered the opportunity to take on an apprenticeship or offered something I really wanted to do at the age of fourteen, I'd have taken their arm off. I had no interest in about 80% of what I was doing at school and was more interested in my little 'jobs' that I had outside school hours.

We've had the ridiculous mantra that passing spurious exams, check tests, being a number on a 'performance' chart and academic higher education is the One True Path For Everyone for too long. Remember, this is the mantra that says gaining a degree is what everybody should be doing and anything else is not worthwhile? Look around you.

Those who want to leave at 14-15 into something worthwhile should be encouraged - not held back to end up clogging up the system like I did. What would you sooner see...a fifteen year old apprentice brickie or a fifteen year old hurling bricks? Invest in the future.

[Gronnuck]

I agree with northerner. There was a time when a significant proportion of youngsters left school and went into a wide variety of trades and learned 'on the job'. They would normally attended a technical institute one day or a couple of evenings a week to learn the more academic side of their trade. This was an Apprenticeship. That has all gone now and we have a situation where youngsters 'collect' qualifications like button badges from a college. They might be lucky to be on a course where they get an occasional 'placement' which really is only a token gesture and meaningless. They learn nothing of the work ethic. The end result is that employers have to spend a lot of time and effort retraining these 'qualified' people to bring them up to speed.

[tonkatojo]

And if the school leaving age is raised, no doubt there'd be accusations of trying to keep the dole queue figures down.

If I'd been offered the opportunity to take on an apprenticeship or offered something I really wanted to do at the age of fourteen, I'd have taken their arm off. I had no interest in about 80% of what I was doing at school and was more interested in my little 'jobs' that I had outside school hours.

We've had the ridiculous mantra that passing spurious exams, check tests, being a number on a 'performance' chart and academic higher education is the One True Path For Everyone for too long. Remember, this is the mantra that says gaining a degree is what everybody should be doing and anything else is not worthwhile? Look around you.

Those who want to leave at 14-15 into something worthwhile should be encouraged - not held back to end up clogging up the system like I did. What would you sooner see...a fifteen year old apprentice brickie or a fifteen year old hurling bricks? Invest in the future.

Would this be the 4-5 year apprenticeship of old or the 6 weeks in college and a no all/do it all certificate at the end (screw a nail in type) ??, also where are these apprenticeships served theres no shipyards or collieries the best source of apprenticeship ever.

[Humerous Vegetable]

What would you sooner see...a fifteen year old apprentice brickie or a fifteen year old hurling bricks? Invest in the future.

Dear God - is this our only option? I would not have said that, at 14 years of age, I was equipped to make important life choices like this, nor my kids who both went in different directions, but are successful at what they eventually chose to do.
There are many things wrong with the current education system but, instead of turning our backs on the problems and looking for an easy fix, we should be insisting that those problems are addressed. Social engineering appears to be the main focus of all political parties these days.

[brandy]

if.. and this is a big if... the children wanting to do this are mature enough.. and it is properly done, and not just a 6 week course as mentioned.. but being properly put to work as an apprentice and doing all the things that an apprentice should be doing.
also, the clause that if they can not hack it.. they have to go back to school and pick up where they left off.
even though children a lot younger were working a lot harder in days gone by.. today children are very lazy and can barely make themselves pick a sweets wrapper off the floor.. much less put in several grueling hours of hard work, where they cant chat, text, or loiter with their mates.
personally, i think making teenagers work is a great idea.. and gives them a sense of responsibility and life experience.
however, i do not want to see it as a get out of school card, that is going to be flaunted and nothing come of it.
also, how many rightmost indignant parents are going to be storming the trades screaming.. my poor wee angel.. working them like a dog, for next to no wage.. ect..ect..

[Shabbychic]

I noticed that the new Lib Dem manifesto also has "Provide opportunity for youngsters to attend college to do a course of their choice from the age of 14."

Now isn't it strange that both the Tories and Lib Dems have come up with this? I wonder if their bosses down the road have told them to put this in to test the water for a future plan to introduce this in England. Brings back memories of the Poll Tax.

[fingalmacool]

Have to agree with some thoughts on a 14 year old being adult enough to take on an apprenticeship, I reluctantly go back to days of yore, but back in my day I was called several names for mucking things up when i was an apprentice, and i accepted that i screwed up and made sure i didn't do it again, teenagers of today will not accept that kind of chastisement, I'm not saying it was right but it was part of becoming an adult and being responsible for my actions. It becomes perfectly clear to all that served their times many years ago, that it was a reflection on the standard of teenagers applying for apprenticeships that a local Painter and Decorator was advertising some years back for mature apprentices, from 18 onwards. So what can we assume why he was advertising in this way, well at the time there was plenty school leavers as usual. My own thought's rightly or otherwise was that the standard of teens applying didn't come up to spec, I will salute the company that will take on say two or three 14year olds and make tradesmen out of them, the journey men that will have to cope with them will be saints, but would soon cast them adrift because there isn't enough time in the day to argue about why the 14 year old should make the tea? This is never going to be put in place as it is unworkable, and it is unworkable because of the type of teens that will try it.Not saying that all 14 year olds are not fit to do it but the percentage will not be:

[ducati]

Lets face it, at c14 we know whether we will be a genius or not (I did anyway). So if we are not going into higher academia, we might as well roll our sleeves up and get started. 2 more years pension entitlement will definitely not go amiss.

er.. you get I'm not a genius, right?

[tonkatojo]

Lets face it, at c14 we know whether we will be a genius or not (I did anyway). So if we are not going into higher academia, we might as well roll our sleeves up and get started. 2 more years pension entitlement will definitely not go amiss.

er.. you get I'm not a genius, right?

Not sure of your age ducati but in 1965 when I left school any one could pick n choose from dozens of jobs any different day of the week, sadly times have changed, there are no jobs or very few for kids now, even with qualifications. I myself left my employment went into army and finished with an intermediate certification of education in the 3Rs plus 4 other subjects by the age of 18 1/2 years old, this after being not interested in school education. I still wouldn't class myself as a genius and at the age of 14 did not really care or had the sense to realize the advantages of an education, I still think the youth are too young at 14 to have gumption to make a life changing decision, mind you there will be the exception as well.

[brandy]

one of the main problems with youth is they think they know everything but actually know nothing.. *grins*

[tonkatojo]

Dear Mr. Cameron,

Please find below my suggestion for fixing England 's economy.

Instead of giving billions of pounds to banks that will squander the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the following plan.

You can call it the Patriotic Retirement Plan:

There are about 10 million people over 50 in the work force.

Pay them £1 million each severance for early retirement with the following stipulations:

1) They MUST retire.

Ten million job openings - unemployment fixed

2) They MUST buy a new British car.

Ten million cars ordered - Car Industry fixed

3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage -

Housing Crisis fixed

4) They MUST send their kids to school/college/university -

Crime rate fixed

5) They MUST buy £100 WORTH of alcohol/tobacco a week .....

and there's your money back in duty/tax etc

6) Instead of stuffing around with the carbon emissions trading scheme that makes us pay for the major polluters, tell the greedy to reduce their pollution emissions by 75% within 5 years or we shut them down.

It can't get any easier than that!

P.S. If more money is needed, have all members of parliament pay back their falsely claimed expenses and second home allowances

[ducati]

Dear Mr. Cameron,

Please find below my suggestion for fixing England 's economy.

Instead of giving billions of pounds to banks that will squander the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the following plan.

You can call it the Patriotic Retirement Plan:

There are about 10 million people over 50 in the work force.

Pay them £1 million each severance for early retirement with the following stipulations:

1) They MUST retire.

Ten million job openings - unemployment fixed

2) They MUST buy a new British car.

Ten million cars ordered - Car Industry fixed

3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage -

Housing Crisis fixed

4) They MUST send their kids to school/college/university -

Crime rate fixed

5) They MUST buy £100 WORTH of alcohol/tobacco a week .....

and there's your money back in duty/tax etc

6) Instead of stuffing around with the carbon emissions trading scheme that makes us pay for the major polluters, tell the greedy to reduce their pollution emissions by 75% within 5 years or we shut them down.

It can't get any easier than that!

P.S. If more money is needed, have all members of parliament pay back their falsely claimed expenses and second home allowances

You are a genius! When do I get the cheque?

[tonkatojo]

You are a genius! When do I get the cheque?

Have a word with your nearest tory lib dem rep and see if his boss will adopt that policy, it shouldn't take that long for tory boy Osborne to obey and write them, at least he would get cramp in the wrist for a good reason.

[tonkatojo]

While he's doing that I wonder how long before they cotton on to this.


Let's put the pensioners in jail and the criminals in a nursing home.

This way the pensioners would have access to showers, hobbies and walks.

They'd receive unlimited free prescriptions, dental and medical treatment, wheel chairs etc and they'd receive money instead of paying it out.

They would have constant video monitoring, so they could be helped instantly, if they fell, or needed assistance.

Bedding would be washed twice a week, and all clothing would be ironed and returned to them.

A guard would check on them every 20 minutes and bring their meals and snacks to their cell.

They would have family visits in a suite built for that purpose.

They would have access to a library, weight room, spiritual counselling, pool and education.

Simple clothing, shoes, slippers, PJ's and legal aid would be free, on request.

Private, secure rooms for all, with an exercise outdoor yard, with gardens.

Each senior could have a PC a TV radio and daily phone calls.

There would be a board of directors to hear complaints, and the guards would have a code of conduct that would be strictly adhered to.

The criminals would get cold food, be left all alone and unsupervised. Lights off at 8pm, and showers once a week. Live in a tiny room and pay £600.00 per week and have no hope of ever getting out.

Oops it already happens in reverse.

[brandy]

wait wait.. can i go to jail?

[tonkatojo]

wait wait.. can i go to jail?

See your local sheriff brandy if your good I'm sure he'd oblige.

[bagpuss]

Perhaps that's why Ronnie Biggs came home?

[bagpuss]

On the original thread...
back in the 1930's girls could leave school at 14 and enter an apprenticesip for tailoring or hairdressing. it was 7 year arrangement- and for the first year one did errands and assisted the older apprents. the stages included beginner, improver and the last phase was the masterpiece project. At 21 one got the indentures- and coul set up in business. My mum did that. Basically it gave you a job for life.

Similarly- a joiners apprenticeship was 7 years of hard work- with a real skill at the end. I have in my house a cabinet that an uncle made as masterpiece project- a on off original with a carved door.

Real apprenticeships like hat are one thing- but most trades nowadays have to deal with evolving technologies eg mechanics/ plumbing/electricians- so is this the way to go?