"Waist" in the NHS

[Danielbrooks]

Here is a link to a news article about new ambulances for fat people. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12287880

What do people think? Should we pour more money down fat peoples throats or should we take a stand? How much more neglect of personal responsibility for peoples own health do we need to see?

This is purely a discussion on obesity no comments about smoking, drug abuse, suicide etc which may be considered neglect of ones health.

[ShelleyCowie]

Here is a link to a news article about new ambulances for fat people. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12287880

What do people think? Should we pour more money down fat peoples throats or should we take a stand? How much more neglect of personal responsibility for peoples own health do we need to see?

This is purely a discussion on obesity no comments about smoking, drug abuse, suicide etc which may be considered neglect of ones health.

For your first post thats just a bit harsh to start off with? Have you got something against obese people?

If this is what is required for the paramdeics to carry out their jobs then the equipment is necessary! Would you rather they said "oh this one is a bit on the fat side, just leave him"

Obesity is becoming more common within younger people too. And we cant just say parents are over feeding and they are so lazy that they wont do anything. Alot of kids eat for comfort, whether its because they are getting bullied at school or have problems at home, even confidence issues.

Obesity is a very large (no pun intended) subject. So many sides, so many arguments. No im not obese either by the way, bit on the "flumpy" side since having my last son but i exercise regularly and know the weight will come off soon Being a size 12 for a few more months aint the end of the world!!

[Kodiak]

Stand against What? Are you suggesting that anyone overweight should not get medical treatment? I hope not.

It makes no difference what weight a person is, they are still a person and as such they should be treated with as much dignity as any other person.

[annemarie482]

are you suggesting we take a stand by folding our arms and saying to the "fat" person "your too big for the van, hope you'll survive" and drive off?

im sure like most things there are ways and means.
don't think an instant total replacement with "fat ambulances" is quite the answer but ergonomically sensible for the future,
if the human race is getting larger, the equipment should be made to fit the purpose.

not doing so, will not stop the "fat" people getting "fat"
will just mean they don't get the same treatment or aides that the average joe bloggs get.

obesity is a growing problem (excuse the pun) that will not be addressed through shunning.

[shazzap]

I used to be a size 10 - 12 . Had been all my life, up to having illness and disability.
I am now a size 14, through not being able to exercise.
I hope i don't put on more weight. But my point being is a lot of people are obese through no fault of their own.
It's about time Ambulances were updated, as after having to travel in one everyday, for 36 days. Whilst having radiotherapy, with a leg 4 times the size of the other and a muscle transplant. I can say that they were not made with comfort in mind for the patient. Any upgrades will be appreciated by those who have the misfortune to ever have to travel in one of these.

[Walter Ego]

It's self-induced.

Tell 'em to phone back when they've got their pie intake down to a sensible level.

[Danielbrooks]

For your first post thats just a bit harsh to start off with? Have you got something against obese people?

Sorry, I didn't intend for the rhetoric I used to come across as being quite so harsh, I wasn't attacking anyone, but I do feel that it's an important topic that should be discussed, because, as you've all admitted, the prevalence of obesity is rising in British society.

Stand against What? Are you suggesting that anyone overweight should not get medical treatment? I hope not.

I wasn't suggesting anything, simply asking what the rest of you think about the issue of rationing money for different aspects of healthcare, which is an inevitability in any publicly funded health service, in the specific context of morbid obesity.

if the human race is getting larger, the equipment should be made to fit the purpose.

not doing so, will not stop the "fat" people getting "fat"

I would argue that it is not an unavoidable anthropological certainty that people will get larger, but rather a facet of the current consumerist culture that we live in, which eschews personal responsibility in favour of an expectation that the state will find a solution to your problems for you.

But my point being is a lot of people are obese through no fault of their own.

I'm sorry to hear about your leg, but what you've said is simply not true, while a slim fraction (ignore the pun), may be obese because of medical illness, the overwhelming majority of overweight people are heavy simply because they have not worked out the basic equation, which is that if 'calories in' exceeds 'calories out' weight increases. And it should be noted that more people become disabled through obesity than obese through disability.

For what it's worth I believe entirely in the principles and ideals of the NHS, but we do need a genuine discussion in this country about whether or not we can afford to continue paying for services which only accommodate those people unwilling to take responsibility for their own weight, and thus health.

[bekisman]

Here is a link to a news article about new ambulances for fat people. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12287880

What do people think? Should we pour more money down fat peoples throats or should we take a stand? How much more neglect of personal responsibility for peoples own health do we need to see?

This is purely a discussion on obesity no comments about smoking, drug abuse, suicide etc which may be considered neglect of ones health.

"How much more neglect of personal responsibility for peoples own health do we need to see?" you then continue to say not to talk about what might be considered neglect of one's health with reference to drugs, smoking etc.... Seems a very narrow viewpoint, denigrating just obese people (who as can be seen above, are in this situation through no fault of their own) and leaving out diseases - for example - from smoking - is there a 'smoking disease' as with Bulimia Nervosa, Anorexia Nervosa, or Prader-Willi Syndrome?
I have a sneaking suspicion this new member, may well not be new after all..

[Danielbrooks]

I only suggested limiting the discussion to obesity, as it's a very current issue, and because a wider discussion on all topics that effect resources in the NHS would probably be too unwieldy for a single thread, not to specifically attack anyone one group of people.

No I'm not a reformed member, but I have read Caithness.org, with intrest, for a while now.

[Gronnuck]

Here is a link to a news article about new ambulances for fat people http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12287880

I’m old enough to remember when ambulances were nothing more than a van with space for a stretcher or two and the ethos was ‘scoop and scoot’. The Ambulance Service and its equipment has evolved and will continue to evolve to meet the needs of the whole community.

What do people think? Should we pour more money down fat peoples throats or should we take a stand? How much more neglect of personal responsibility for peoples own health do we need to see?

That has to be one of the most unpleasant statements I’ve come across. You must be some kind of health fascist to say something about people you know nothing about.

This is purely a discussion on obesity no comments about smoking, drug abuse, suicide etc which may be considered neglect of ones health.

There are a myriad of ways people could be accused of neglecting their health. Even people who climb mountains and sail oceans occasionally need help/rescue. But you choose to focus exclusively people who are obese. Which leads me to believe you are a narrow minded bigot.

[sandyr1]

People with disablities need not be overweight.
Even those with severe problems can control weight.....not too difficult to figure.

[shazzap]

I'm sorry to hear about your leg, but what you've said is simply not true, while a slim fraction (ignore the pun), may be obese because of medical illness, the overwhelming majority of overweight people are heavy simply because they have not worked out the basic equation, which is that if 'calories in' exceeds 'calories out' weight increases. And it should be noted that more people become disabled through obesity than obese through disability.

For what it's worth I believe entirely in the principles and ideals of the NHS, but we do need a genuine discussion in this country about whether or not we can afford to continue paying for services which only accommodate those people unwilling to take responsibility for their own weight, and thus health.

My statement is true.
I did not say that everyone was obese because of illness or disability. I said a lot of people.

Also i was not looking for sympathy, but, Was trying to get across how uncomfortable Ambulances are, and any improvement must help for the service user. The new equipment ( lifting apparatus ) will make it better for the Ambulance crew. immaterial of whether the Service user is, large, small, fat or thin.

[shazzap]

People with disablities need not be overweight.
Even those with severe problems can control weight.....not too difficult to figure.

I beg to differ.
Thyroid being one.
Couple that with a physical disability.

[Danielbrooks]

I’m old enough to remember when ambulances were nothing more than a van with space for a stretcher or two and the ethos was ‘scoop and scoot’. The Ambulance Service and its equipment has evolved and will continue to evolve to meet the needs of the whole community.

That has to be one of the most unpleasant statements I’ve come across. You must be some kind of health fascist to say something about people you know nothing about.

There are a myriad of ways people could be accused of neglecting their health. Even people who climb mountains and sail oceans occasionally need help/rescue. But you choose to focus exclusively people who are obese. Which leads me to believe you are a narrow minded bigot.

You've completely misunderstood my intent, I'm not attacking obese people, nor am I suggesting that they are the only group of people who are neglecting their health, and I resent being called a fascist and a bigot. I was asking whether or not you thought that this was the best use of money in the NHS, and whether, in a more general sense if you're concerned with the extent to which services are provided exclusively for fat people.

I wonder if you'll find this article interesting: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...tric-band.html

[Danielbrooks]

My statement is true.
I did not say that everyone was obese because of illness or disability. I said a lot of people.

And I am telling you that it is categorically not 'a lot' of people in the statistical sense of the term.

I beg to differ.
Thyroid being one.

If it is a thyroid condition causing weight problems then it is manageable if not treatable, and once symptoms are well controlled it ceases to be responsible for peoples weight problems and the issue is once again sedentary life style.

[Phill]

How much more neglect of personal responsibility for (today I'm singling out) fat people's own health do we need to see?

Fixed it for you.

Apparently we in the UK have gotten about 4 inches taller in the last century too.

[shazzap]

And I am telling you that it is categorically not 'a lot' of people in the statistical sense of the term.



If it is a thyroid condition causing weight problems then it is manageable if not treatable, ans once symptoms are well controlled it ceases to be responsible for peoples weight problems and the issue is once again sedentary life style.

Have you got personal knowledge of this condition.
4 years and mine is still yet to be contolled. Very hard to manage. I doubt i am the only one.

[canadagirl]

If it is a thyroid condition causing weight problems then it is manageable if not treatable, and once symptoms are well controlled it ceases to be responsible for peoples weight problems and the issue is once again sedentary life style.

I have to jump in here and say yes, if you are putting on weight get your thyroid checked and/or take some kelp. I almost starved myself once while putting on weight and it was sluggish thyroid.

[Corrie 3]

Tell you what.....Lets just use the NHS for thin, non-smokers or drug takers, non drinkers and only people who go to the Gym regularly....How does that sound, fair enough or what?

And what about the money all these people have paid into the NHS all their lives, will that go to treat only the super fit people of our Nation?

I just hope the topic starter doesnt put on weight in her later years, she may just get left by the roadside!!!

C3....

[shazzap]

I have to jump in here and say yes, if you are putting on weight get your thyroid checked and/or take some kelp. I almost starved myself once while putting on weight and it was sluggish thyroid.

Had mine removed with Radio iodine treatment.
But i cannot get my dosage right.
So if i take one dose for so long i get sluggish, tired, constipated etc etc. So then have to take a higher dose, am ok for a while, then. Jittery, shaking, palpitations, diarrhoea
etc etc. Not so easy to control, is it.
Nearly forgot to add. I wish i could go for a good long walk, like i used to.