Sickness Benefits

[Shabbychic]

For those who are at present on sickness benefit, and also those who scream out that sickness benefits are being abused and are too easy to claim, there is a programme called, "Who's Cheating Who?" tonight at 10.45pm on BBC1 Scotland.

I think it will be very interesting, and may just show the truth about what people are up against. In fact things might become even worse, as this programme is about the new measures Labour brought about, and from what I hear, the new government is going to introduce even tougher measures. (if that is possible)

Remember, this is not just about those who are sick today, it is also for those who may, through no fault of their own, become sick tomorrow.

[upolian]

Im not on benefits but...Why are these things so complicated?If you are sick you are entitled to benefits?How can people cheat the system?Is it really that easy to fool a doctor into writing a sick note? Not sure how this all work's but iam intrigued!! I will be watching this programme Does this mean people who are 'cheating' the system make it more difficult for genuine ill people to claim benefits?

[Shabbychic]

Im not on benefits but...Why are these things so complicated?If you are sick you are entitled to benefits?How can people cheat the system?Is it really that easy to fool a doctor into writing a sick note? Not sure how this all work's but iam intrigued!! I will be watching this programme Does this mean people who are 'cheating' the system make it more difficult for genuine ill people to claim benefits?

All will be explained if you watch the programme. It is not about people cheating the system and making it harder for others, it's about the government paying billions to private companies to make sure very few qualify for sickness benefits. It's also about people with things like cancer or severe mental illness being told they must find a job. I think it may just open people's eyes about what is going on with the welfare system in Britain today.

[Phill]

Is it really that easy to fool a doctor into writing a sick note?

Yes, incredibly easy.

[upolian]

All will be explained if you watch the programme. It is not about people cheating the system and making it harder for others, it's about the government paying billions to private companies to make sure very few qualify for sickness benefits. It's also about people with things like cancer or severe mental illness being told they must find a job. I think it may just open people's eyes about what is going on with the welfare system in Britain today.

Thank you,very interested in this subject,ill be making sure i tune in to it.

Yes, incredibly easy.

Excuse my ignorance,but how?I find it difficult to see how its done?maybe im missing something??

[Phill]

Excuse my ignorance,but how?I find it difficult to see how its done?maybe im missing something??

If your of the persuasion to lie or exaggerate things then it's quite straight forward. Go to the quacks and tell them you done something to your back, (you were working in the garden and moved some heavy bags of rubble etc.) do a quick google before going and and check that your 'symptoms' match those of a suitable diagnosis you have found.

"Ooh doc', I can't stand up straight, I can't lie down. I'm not sleeping, I can't do this or that.....blah blah blah."

The doc' will take this a face value as they won't have any reason to think your lying, they are there to help after all. There is little most GP's can do easily or quickly to validate or dispute various aches and pains, and why would they want to try and dispute what your saying.

Provided you said the right things and winced in apparent pain at the appropriate prods you'll be dancing out of the surgery clicking your heels with a sicknote and a bag full of painkillers.

[Shabbychic]

If your of the persuasion to lie or exaggerate things then it's quite straight forward. Go to the quacks and tell them you done something to your back, (you were working in the garden and moved some heavy bags of rubble etc.) do a quick google before going and and check that your 'symptoms' match those of a suitable diagnosis you have found.

"Ooh doc', I can't stand up straight, I can't lie down. I'm not sleeping, I can't do this or that.....blah blah blah."

The doc' will take this a face value as they won't have any reason to think your lying, they are there to help after all. There is little most GP's can do easily or quickly to validate or dispute various aches and pains, and why would they want to try and dispute what your saying.

Provided you said the right things and winced in apparent pain at the appropriate prods you'll be dancing out of the surgery clicking your heels with a sicknote and a bag full of painkillers.

That is such an outdated view of reality. Actually, sick notes don't exist anymore. They have been replaced by fit notes, aka Statement of Fitness for Work.

I think you'll also find the new system, that the programme above is about, has very little to do with what GP's think, and more to do with private companies ticking boxes and making money, by indicating almost everyone is capable of work, no matter what their medical condition is.

[sandyr1]

I think that the European dwellers, especially the UK, have a very relaxed, excellent if you want to call it that, social assistance program.
I do know both the UK and North America(Canada and the United States) quite well, and one would definitely not get the latitude that the UK does, where I am.
Yes I have seen programs about the UK system and is likely the most lax in the World. The Gov't has to tighten it up or you are going to go bankrupt! Be prepared...as they say!

[Phill]

That is such an outdated view of reality. Actually, sick notes don't exist anymore. They have been replaced by fit notes, aka Statement of Fitness for Work.

Not really outdated, the principle is the same for those who do mislead and cheat the system.

Fitnote / sicknote, they'll be referred to as sicknotes for a few years yet.

[Shabbychic]

I think that the European dwellers, especially the UK, have a very relaxed, excellent if you want to call it that, social assistance program.
I do know both the UK and North America(Canada and the United States) quite well, and one would definitely not get the latitude that the UK does, where I am.
Yes I have seen programs about the UK system and is likely the most lax in the World. The Gov't has to tighten it up or you are going to go bankrupt! Be prepared...as they say!

When did you see these programmes about how lax our system is?

Is this lax? HeraldScotland. BBC. Another BBC. These are just a couple of examples of our LAX system.

Things have moved on from the Invalidity Pension days. It's a pity some people's views have not.

[sandyr1]

When did you see these programmes about how lax our system is?

Is this lax? HeraldScotland. BBC. Another BBC. These are just a couple of examples of our LAX system.

Things have moved on from the Invalidity Pension days. It's a pity some people's views have not.

On the BBC Worldwide/ newspapers/ caithness.org!

Free healthcare, Council housing, Social assistance, Free cars, etc.
The entitlement thing will eventually have to stop. Whole families living on 'Welfare' and proud of it! Be prepared!
And this is not critisism.....just fact. Remember, you brought up the Subject/ Am just commenting!

[horseman]

Dunno how some of you see it?,but my daughter an son have both copped for a car free gratis from the state! An I am well chuffed at it.I have worked many many years to put that oppurtunity there,an all power to other young uns 'who have enough spunk to ride the system!!!!!

[Shabbychic]

On the BBC Worldwide/ newspapers/ caithness.org!

Free healthcare, Council housing, Social assistance, Free cars, etc.
The entitlement thing will eventually have to stop. Whole families living on 'Welfare' and proud of it! Be prepared!
And this is not critisism.....just fact. Remember, you brought up the Subject/ Am just commenting!

See, this is the problem. The minute sickness benefit is mentioned, it is classed as welfare across the board. Incapacity Benefit, which is what I am talking about, has nothing to do with free healthcare, housing, social assistance, free prescritions, cars or families living on income or child support. Yes, some who claim incapacity benefit may fit into one or two of they catagories, but most don't.

The subject I brought up is about the new way sick people are being treated, and how private companies are costing the tax payer far more than those claiming Incapacity Benefit.

On another note, MSP Hugh O'Donnell has put forward the following motion in the Scottish Parliament:-

*S3M-6299♦ Hugh O’Donnell: Employment and Support Allowance, Unfit for Purpose—That the Parliament is concerned about the workings of the Employment and Support Allowance (ESA); notes evidence from the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) Service in Scotland that uncovers serious hardship experienced by ESA claimants across Scotland; considers that sickness benefits should support people in finding employment if they are able to work, but must also provide help for those who are not; considers that ESA is failing to find this balance and is putting pressure on sick and disabled people in Scotland; notes in particular, claims that the work capability assessment of ESA is making unsuitable decisions on claimants’ fitness for work and that 70% of CAB appeals against these decisions are being upheld, and resolves that ESA be urgently reviewed so that it can be made to work in the interests of the genuinely sick and disabled people of Central Scotland and the rest of the country.

Only a few MSP's have signed so far. I contacted both Jamie Stone and Rob Gibson about their views on this, and so far Jamie Stone has got back to me stating he agrees with it and has signed it.

[wicker8]

Im not on benefits but...Why are these things so complicated?If you are sick you are entitled to benefits?How can people cheat the system?Is it really that easy to fool a doctor into writing a sick note? Not sure how this all work's but iam intrigued!! I will be watching this programme Does this mean people who are 'cheating' the system make it more difficult for genuine ill people to claim benefits?

wel said totally agree

[Puzzled]

Dunno how some of you see it?,but my daughter an son have both copped for a car free gratis from the state! An I am well chuffed at it.I have worked many many years to put that oppurtunity there,an all power to other young uns 'who have enough spunk to ride the system!!!!!

What an attitude!

[Max]

Wouldn't it be great if only those that actually needed the ESA or sickness benefits claimed it? Then there would be no reason to doubt people , no need to bring in more stringent claiming methods and everyone would be happy. It is the people who cheat the system that have brought about the problems for the genuine cases ......................

[manloveswife]

Wouldn't it be great if only those that actually needed the ESA or sickness benefits claimed it? Then there would be no reason to doubt people , no need to bring in more stringent claiming methods and everyone would be happy. It is the people who cheat the system that have brought about the problems for the genuine cases ......................

Very true Max, the problem though is that those who cheat the system are possibly the most likely to pass the tests for eligibility. When you have people who are 3rd generation benefit claimants and know exactly what to say and do to appear to meet the standards they are hard to detect.

In my opinion the most likely to be classed as "fit" are those who are genuinely ill and inacapacitated but do not know how to play the system.

[lab]

Not sure where the idea that if you recieve incapacity benefit gives you entitlement to free housing, dental care, prescriptions,ect. My sister worked for 22 years before getting too sick to work her stamps enabled her to get incapacity, however because this is income based due to her national insurance contributions she has to pay full rent all prescriptions and dental care, she also has a free? motobility car which costs her £68 pounds a week deducted from her mobility benefit. OH not complaining about the injustice of it all just saying because someone is on benefits does not automaticaly make them a scrounger.

[Thumper]

Its always the same,there will always be those who play the system and yet agin they will be the ones who come out of this with their money intact and those that do deserve it will be made to feel like scroungers! A had an accident almost 4 years ago and SHOULD have been put on incapacity benefit,when did they tell me that?Hmmnn let me see about 5 months ago-by which time they said there wasnt much point giving me it as I should be back to full health after my operation(still not tho!) Now the point there is the DWP knew about my accident,knew i couldnt take on work because of the injury and then still didnt tell me I was entitled to it,but hounded me about when I would be fit enough to look for employment!x

[Bazeye]

Just as Im typing this, looking out the window, a neighbour of mine on incapacity benefit with a "bad back" is just loading his golf clubs into the boot of his free car. And no, i havent told the DSS, but have been tempted to on many occasions especially when moneys tight.