View Full Version : Would you report benefit fraud.
cuddlepop
18-Feb-10, 15:51
Local authoritys and governments are in deep financial difficulties so do you think our attitude to benefit fraud has/will change?
ShelleyCowie
18-Feb-10, 15:55
I would happily do it to anyone as im sure they would do it to me. I believe the system is there to help, not be mis-used.
cuddlepop
18-Feb-10, 15:58
I would happily do it to anyone as im sure they would do it to me. I believe the system is there to help, not be mis-used.
But could you pick up the phone and say mrs so ans so is really living with a man and isnt living alone?
We live in such small communities here that there could be potential lash backs.:confused
But could you pick up the phone and say mrs so ans so is really living with a man and isnt living alone?
We live in such small communities here that there could be potential lash backs.:confused
I voted yes to all but that's easy I don't know anyone on benefits
ShelleyCowie
18-Feb-10, 16:28
But could you pick up the phone and say mrs so ans so is really living with a man and isnt living alone?
We live in such small communities here that there could be potential lash backs.:confused
I cant really say yes or no that i could do that until it ever came to it. But people out there are living as benefit thieves and its not right to everybody else.
The thing is, you can scam the system but eventually they will catch up with you and thats when things get bad, paying back all the money, sentenced to prison. Was it really worth it then?
Dog-eared
18-Feb-10, 16:30
Well, for one thing, that's assuming a lot, based on what you see, rather than the facts of their circumstances.
As you so rightly say-
" Never judge someone until you have walked two moons in their moccasins.:grin: "
i believe you get people who work on the side because their circumstances mean they dont get enough to live on, but the folk that just abuse the system they should have all benefits taken away from them, and in cases like this issue them with food vouchers for say thier kids so they cant use the money for anything else.
cuddlepop
18-Feb-10, 16:44
Well, for one thing, that's assuming a lot, based on what you see, rather than the facts of their circumstances.
As you so rightly say-
" Never judge someone until you have walked two moons in their moccasins.:grin: "
You just love quoting that at me.
This is an observation based on evidence provided,how else do they catch benefit theives?:confused
I know very few people who are claiming benefits and to the best of my knowledge they are only receiving what they are entitled to.
But then, how would I know exactly what benefits someone was claiming and whether there was any fraud involved? Unless they actually told me they knew they were getting more money than they were entitled to....rather unlikely to happen I'd say.;)
So I don't see how I would be certain enough to report anyone. :confused
On the other hand I do know people who don't claim what they should, e.g. pension credit, due to a misplaced sense of shame as a result of all the media focus on 'benefit scroungers'.
It's bad enough genuine claimants being made to feel that they are 'workshy scroungers' without unfounded suggestions that they are probably fraudsters and thieves as well. Don't forget that if someone is reported for possible benefit fraud their payments will be stopped while there is an investigation, so folk have to be very sure that there is fraud before they rush to report people on the basis of possibly wrong assumptions. :(
I struggle with this one because anyone I have seen making a pound on the side desperately needs it to give their family a little bit extra. Maybe the people to report would be the people who employ people on benifits. It takes more than a benefits cheat to tango on his own.
I would need to know an awful lot more about a persons situation before I would report anyone and considering the cheats at the other end of society its a toss up as who's the worst.
cuddlepop
18-Feb-10, 16:48
I voted yes to all but that's easy I don't know anyone on benefits
Your lucky i know far too many people who do a wee job here and there and still sign on.
I know the money you get to live of is a joke but is it right to keep "cash in hand" and still get full council rent and tax rebate.?
I'd hope an ear full to a friend or family member would be eneogh to make them stop doing it but even although I know people are cheating the system I've never picked up the phone .:(
they should make it harder for folk claiming benifits just because it is a cushy number, my god i know people who have nearly the same amount of kids as me and none of them work and including rent and council tax benifit and everything else they get, it comes to a lot more than me and my oh get and we both work hard to support our family as do so many otheres, but some folk just sit back and watch all us hard working familys and they must be having a laugh at us all. i know some folk arent able to work for various reasons, but the ones that can high time the goverment stoped being so easy on them.
sorry Balto but believe me is is hard to claim benefits,they make you go through hoops for what little you get,those that you see "milking it" would do so no matter how hard it was,its the ones who barley manage that would suffer even more x
cuddlepop
18-Feb-10, 16:57
sorry Balto but believe me is is hard to claim benefits,they make you go through hoops for what little you get,those that you see "milking it" would do so no matter how hard it was,its the ones who barley manage that would suffer even more x
Your right Thumper the forms are complicated eneogh to fill in without making it anymore difficult.
Maybe there should be a more stringent method of "measuring" whether a claiment is genuine when they sign on and say they havent been working.:confused
Maybe it should be illegal to pay anyone cash in hand.I dont know,but as it stands just now it doesnt work.:(
Boozeburglar
18-Feb-10, 16:58
No I would not.
I would have a word with them if I knew them well enough, and ask for my cut.
sorry Balto but believe me is is hard to claim benefits,they make you go through hoops for what little you get,those that you see "milking it" would do so no matter how hard it was,its the ones who barley manage that would suffer even more x
exactly, some folk get everything handed to then on a plate, but as you say some folk get barley enough to live on ,the whole system is screwed up. its like the heating allowance the oaps get, right this should be a means tested benefit, how can it ba fair a couple both have the state pensions plus 1 private pension and the other 1 still works aswell, yet they both get the heating allowancem sorry but that really annoys me.
Ah sorry Balto I see what you mean now,yes it is frustrating at times but benefits are not the only goverment scheme thats go weird ways of "helping" people,I recently applied for help with insulation as my heating bills are crippling me,I went through the whole process and the agent was saying that i would definately get help as I am on the lowest income but then when the application went through i was refused...why? Because I had to sell my house mortgage to rent to stop it being repossessed and they reckon I am entitled to nothing because of it(EVEN though the was no profit from the sale and still outstanding debts) :(x
I wouldn't report anybody because that is disgusting, being a grass, you could really land people right in it who are trying to get a job but can't and the money they get from the social they can barely get by on, so they do some work on the side for some extra cash to make ends meet - there are a lot of people who want to work but can't get a job for whatever reason and it's hard enough trying to live nowadays without being reported for things that is nobody elses business and only spiteful and self-righteous people who look down at anyone on benefits would do that sort of thing.
The general public can moan all they want about it, but it is in the hands of the government and it is them who decide how much money and who should get benefits, not those that claim it, there is no need to be so angry towards people who get benefits. I have a job and pay taxes, but I still realise that is just the way of the world and I have been on the dole myself before, I know how hard it can be to get by.
i am workin and some one who thought i was on the dole got it wrong the put me on the org sayin that that certain person is on the dole and he was wrong i no who it is who put me on the org to let every body no but nothin came from that person spreading bad rumars he did because i set the same business as he but why grass some one if you r not so sure .. he been on my case now for the past so many years he will not just let go i ignor him totaly al he does gives me grief [ why]
Your lucky i know far too many people who do a wee job here and there and still sign on.
I know the money you get to live of is a joke but is it right to keep "cash in hand" and still get full council rent and tax rebate.?
I'd hope an ear full to a friend or family member would be eneogh to make them stop doing it but even although I know people are cheating the system I've never picked up the phone .:(
Well after posting that expect a "visit" in about 3 minutes
im behind you
18-Feb-10, 18:29
well all i can say is there's plenty people out there that are claiming in one way or another. i.e they have hurt there back or got a gimpy leg. but yet we see them covered in oil and dirt after having ago at sorting a car or covered in paint after doing there next door neighbours decorating. as for me would i grass them up DAM right i will.
danc1ngwitch
18-Feb-10, 18:42
No I would not.
I would have a word with them if I knew them well enough, and ask for my cut.
;)<<< you with only one working eye.[lol]
cuddlepop
18-Feb-10, 19:45
Well after posting that expect a "visit" in about 3 minutes
You've got me stumped as I'm not working,claim carers allowence pay full rent so....:confused
I think Ducati meant jokinly to interegate you on who you know. :)
well all i can say is there's plenty people out there that are claiming in one way or another. i.e they have hurt there back or got a gimpy leg. but yet we see them covered in oil and dirt after having ago at sorting a car or covered in paint after doing there next door neighbours decorating. as for me would i grass them up DAM right i will.
Or the lad who lives in the same street as me packing his golf clubs in his car while claiming disability due to his "bad back".
cuddlepop
18-Feb-10, 21:00
I think Ducati meant jokinly to interegate you on who you know. :)
I probably feel guilty because I know people who are "cheating the state" and I'm doing nothing,so jumped to the wrong conclusion..:(
im behind you
18-Feb-10, 21:55
Or the lad who lives in the same street as me packing his golf clubs in his car while claiming disability due to his "bad back".
yes there out there so be warned. Beside's if the tories get in the hot seat im sure one of there things on the list was to get rid of most of thease payments and what have you. So makes you wonder what half this country will do then.
Would i grass on someone claiming benefits ! No. Can't stand grass, it should be cut regularly and maintained.
Why would you for a start ? some kind of moral high ground ?
What benefit would you get out of it ? £50 grass off fee ? and to be quite honest a ham sandwich with a knuckle or two hidden in the middle.
Paying someone in cash illegal, oh my, what planet are you on. It's upto the person recieving the cash to submit the earnings nothing to do with the person handing it out, If they have a problem with paying someone in cash then surely they would pay them a check.?.
Shabbychic
19-Feb-10, 00:07
yes there out there so be warned. Beside's if the tories get in the hot seat im sure one of there things on the list was to get rid of most of thease payments and what have you. So makes you wonder what half this country will do then.
Just hope you never end up with a genuine bad back or a gimpy leg, and are unable to work. Of course that will never happen to you. ;)
Trouble is if you know of loads of people who are doing it, where to start? Other reason I wouldn't bother is the benefit police are more than useless.
:eek: Interesting thread - Would I 'grass' someone up for theiving off the state - too right I would. IMHO it's nothing to do with claiming the moral high ground. Theft is theft and fraud is fraud and it's the taxpayer that is the victim here - that's people like you and me who have paid our dues.
[disgust] What is actually disgusting is reading that some people actually condone such theft and fraud.
its like the heating allowance the oaps get, right this should be a means tested benefit, how can it ba fair a couple both have the state pensions plus 1 private pension and the other 1 still works as well, yet they both get the heating allowancem sorry but that really annoys me.
Sorry balto, but you could say the same thing about child benefit if going by your rules. Surely this should be means tested? Having lots of children when you can't afford them can't be doing society much good and nor is getting child benefit when you're making lots of dosh.
No I would not grass anyone. There will always be a few chancers but better that than not getting benefits to those truly in need, and god knows how they live on the benefits they do get anyway.
:eek: Interesting thread - Would I 'grass' someone up for theiving off the state - too right I would. IMHO it's nothing to do with claiming the moral high ground. Theft is theft and fraud is fraud and it's the taxpayer that is the victim here - that's people like you and me who have paid our dues.
[disgust] What is actually disgusting is reading that some people actually condone such theft and fraud.
And the MPs standing shouting "ZERO TOLERANCE" are fiddling their expenses, the managers of the banks we bailed out are giving themselves huge bonuses, entrepreneurs start businesses on CASE grants that go bust in a year, businessmen do creative bookkeeping, farmers are pocketing grants and subsidies they don't deserve.
But it's only the ones who screw the system out of necessity that are the criminals, they get a thread all to themselves on the org. And as he goes out in the morning they look down their noses and say "lazy bar steward doesn't want to work" and as he staggers home at night after doing menial work no one else wants for a pittance because the dole only give him sixty quid to live on and the electric bill was two hundred they look down their noses and say "thieving bar steward".
Alice in Blunderland
19-Feb-10, 08:17
yes there out there so be warned. Beside's if the tories get in the hot seat im sure one of there things on the list was to get rid of most of thease payments and what have you. So makes you wonder what half this country will do then.
It also makes you wonder what how those who are genuinely on these benefits will manage if they were withdrawn. :confused
I wouldn't report someone I suspected of cheating the system how do I know what is going on in their lives.
Kevin Milkins
19-Feb-10, 08:20
Or the lad who lives in the same street as me packing his golf clubs in his car while claiming disability due to his "bad back".
Now that is just so unfair, you would think his wife would show some consideration and lift his clubs into the car for him.:roll:
Alice in Blunderland
19-Feb-10, 08:23
Now that is just so unfair, you would think his wife would show some consideration and lift his clubs into the car for him.:roll:
Maybe after all the years of lifting the clubs to the car his wife is indoors nursing her sore back. ;)
His turn to feel the pain. :Razz
Kevin Milkins
19-Feb-10, 08:27
Maybe after all the years of lifting the clubs to the car his wife is indoors nursing her sore back. ;)
His turn to feel the pain. :Razz
Bliddy wimmin, always got an answer for everything.:lol:
TBH I dont know the real answer to this question,what i will say though,as many others have,is be careful,they DO stop your payments while being investigated and for a genuine claimant that can be very difficult,I once got mine stoped as they said they didnt recieve a form I sent them,no warning just went to get my money and it wasnt there,I then had to wait TEN days to get it,have you tried to feed three kids on freshair?I have never been so humilated in all my life having to ask people to lend me money to feed my kids!x
Alice in Blunderland
19-Feb-10, 08:49
Bliddy wimmin, always got an answer for everything.:lol:
Always ............it may not be the right answer but it will be an answer. ;)
cuddlepop
19-Feb-10, 10:00
It also makes you wonder what how those who are genuinely on these benefits will manage if they were withdrawn. :confused
I wouldn't report someone I suspected of cheating the system how do I know what is going on in their lives.
Living in a village you notice people going into the benefit office to sign on so evidence would suggest they are claiming benefit.
When Oh declared he received cash in hand from someone one week,two weeks money was stopped which was more than his cash in hand.:confused
It is a difficult one,especially if you get it wrong or someone just reports people because they hate "scroungers".:(
Interesting to note family would be reported before friends.
CP not everyone who signs on actually gets full benefits,my boyfriend has to sign on but actually gets no money as he is a retained firefighter so they reckon he gets enough from that to live on,he does sometimes get help with HB etc if he hasnt had a lot of call outs so perhaps some of those signing on are declaring what they have made and still sign on as they are not actually employed as such?Just a thought? x
CP not everyone who signs on actually gets full benefits,my boyfriend has to sign on but actually gets no money as he is a retained firefighter so they reckon he gets enough from that to live on,he does sometimes get help with HB etc if he hasnt had a lot of call outs so perhaps some of those signing on are declaring what they have made and still sign on as they are not actually employed as such?Just a thought? x
You beat me to it there, Thumper, I had been going to ask Cuddlepop how -even in a small community - you could know exactly what someone was signing on for, and how you could know whether or not the person was declaring any cash in hand payments? :confused
Your OH declared his -and that showed that honesty wasn't rewarded :(-but if someone saw him working, they wouldn't have known that, would they? :confused
Thats very true Angela,and he has been made to run around at times even for a little help :( which considering what he does seems quite pathetic IMO they are always stuffing payments up and even though payments are now made 2 weeks in arrears I have lost count of the times they have written to him a few weeks later saying they "over paid him" and demanding it back :roll: x
Local authoritys and governments are in deep financial difficulties so do you think our attitude to benefit fraud has/will change?
Benefit Faudsters, whoeever they are, are thieves and criminals costing us all money - stealing effectively from me. Of course, I would report them. If family, I would try very hard first to stop it but at the end of the day I would have to go to the appropriate authority.
Benefit Faudsters, whoeever they are, are thieves and criminals costing us all money - stealing effectively from me. Of course, I would report them. If family, I would try very hard first to stop it but at the end of the day I would have to go to the appropriate authority.
You are right...but how do you know they are cheating the system? Thats the whole point,the ones who are will be very clever about covering their tracks but the ordinary people who maybe help someone out with a job as an act of kindness will be reported as people "assume" they are being paid,then their payments are stopped while its investigated and they are made to suffer when they have done nothing!Its like most things...think before you act as you may just ruin someones life with your actions,it may sound like I am over reacting ,but there are plenty out their who if there benefit were stopped while they were ionvestigated would be put in dire straights,I for one couldnt live with the thought I had falsely accused somebody and then made them live without money for a few weeks x
Sadly even if you get caught and are even a second time offender of Benefit Fraud this happens to you
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/scotland/7216106/Alex-Salmond-backs-deputy-over-lobbying-court-for-serial-fraudster.html
I know quite alot of people that are receiving benefits of some sort or other that shouldn't & it annoys the heck out of me!![evil]
You see these people jetting off on foreign holidays or buying big new TVs etc while I struggle like mad trying to make ends meet!
And what really gets my goat is its usually the ones that are fraudulently claiming benefits that do the grassing on other folk just to get the extra £50 reward!
roadbowler
19-Feb-10, 14:43
yea, i'd agree with angela and thumper. How do you know what people are going into the jobcentre office for?? I used to go in quite regular to see what jobs were available on their boards and computer.... On my lunchbreak, looking for a better job! But, i've never once in my life claimed jsa. Secondly, how do you know the people who are claiming are not also telling them about any wee jobs they did on the side?? How do you know that the mannie with the golf clubs next door doesn't suffer from a mental illness that he gets disability for? (if it's a severe psychotic mental illness, how do you know what he is actually using the golf clubs for?? [lol]) The answers to all these questions is you probably don't know, so you should mind yer damn business. If it ticks people off because they see these people buying material items that is really your own problem. That's called jealousy and if people get jealous over material items that is sad in my opinion. I didn't even know you get rewarded money for grassing! That says to me the government bank on jealous people looking for a little earner themselves to report. Don't use a lame excuse like your concerned that the government is being defrauded. That argument holds no water in the grand scheme of things. I am sure there are many who completely take the mickey out of the system however, the government misappropriates funds all over the place. Benefit cheats i'm sure are fairly low down on the list in comparison to many other areas. I don't like that the government spends millions of taxpayers money on invading countries and slaugtering people. I think they are defrauding me! Who can i report them to??
I have reported benefit cheats that have defrauded the public out of Hundreds of Thousands ..EVERY COUNCILLOR AND MP .There are NO bigger cheats than them ..Start at the top and work your way down . Not pick on the poorest and work you way up just a few rungs of the gravy train ladder .
The ones with the big mouth and the friends all know that if they pick on the poor un-educated folk at the bottom , that shift of focus will allow them to carry on filling thier pockets at our expence.They know that we can't fight back ,and the powers that be dont wanted to point a finger at there own .
Thieves cant afford to fall out ,they know to much about each other .Well these gravy train fat-cats are just the same ,but a damn sight more dangerous..These cheats are so proud of what they are doing they even post thier name and address for all to see .(vote for me)
Lets see how any folk will stand by these gravy train bandits when they axe the child and granny care in the very near future ..The same folk that are taking home £1000.00 a week are the same folk that ran the council debt up .
Mis-management should see them all get the sack ....
cuddlepop
19-Feb-10, 15:51
I agree everyone that goes into the job centre does not sign on so a percentage does.Dont have relevent statistics so cant give you them.
What I do know is that people go down the shore and pick wilks while still signing on,people will ask a "builder" etc for a reduction in the bill if they pay cash in hand; it does go on.:roll:
If everyone turned a blind eye like I do then no benefit fraud would come to light and we'd be in an even bigger mess than we are just now.:(
i have to much to do in my own life i have not got the time to snoop about in others what good would you get in doing something like that i dont see any satisfaction in this
I agree everyone that goes into the job centre does not sign on so a percentage does.Dont have relevent statistics so cant give you them.
What I do know is that people go down the shore and pick wilks while still signing on,people will ask a "builder" etc for a reduction in the bill if they pay cash in hand; it does go on.:roll:
If everyone turned a blind eye like I do then no benefit fraud would come to light and we'd be in an even bigger mess than we are just now.:(
You try going down to that shore raking through frozen seaweed for them welks in December, clamber back up that cliff with a half hundred weight on your back, see how much you get for them and if you think it is worth it. You'd have to be desperate.
But them welks keep a dealer or two and a sorter and packer and a lorry driver in business all paying tax and rates and bring this country foreign exchange.
cuddlepop
19-Feb-10, 16:10
i have to much to do in my own life i have not got the time to snoop about in others what good would you get in doing something like that i dont see any satisfaction in this
I too have too much in my life to do to report people but does it not rattle you that there are people in our communitys that get all rent,council tax etc payed for, claim the dole and still do cash in hand jobs which are tax and national insurance free.
If we all behaved like that where would society be?:confused
cuddlepop
19-Feb-10, 16:12
You try going down to that shore raking through frozen seaweed for them welks in December, clamber back up that cliff with a half hundred weight on your back, see how much you get for them and if you think it is worth it. You'd have to be desperate.
But them welks keep a dealer or two and a sorter and packer and a lorry driver in business all paying tax and rates and bring this country foreign exchange.
I know fred, my little brothers use to come up during their school holidays and do it for pocket money and it was hard work for "pocket money" but thats not my point.:confused
Alice in Blunderland
19-Feb-10, 16:17
If we all behaved like that where would society be?:confused
Thankfully many in society are not like that.:)
Its the few who are that have to live with the knowledge that one day they may get caught it may not be today or tomorrow but many more are being caught through systems that are now being put in place.
edit: also if we as a society were always watching the next person so that we could 'shop them' so to speak where would we be as a society always looking into others affairs.....................................woops arent we there already at times with the gossips.
hi cuddlepop yes i do see your point but i would hate to think i reported someone just for doing it fine if they have there own snoops to find out if its false claims it does make me angry i have to get up very early go to work pay council tax etc but its not in my making to report people the only thing i would report is child abuse now thats something
I know fred, my little brothers use to come up during their school holidays and do it for pocket money and it was hard work for "pocket money" but thats not my point.:confused
Does Mr Scott still do the rounds with his lorry on Skye collecting the welks?
I doubt this country could survive without the black economy, there have been times it was the only thing kept us afloat. So someone works hard picking welks so he has a bit of money for whisky and tobacco, when he buys the whisky and tobacco the government gets nine tenths of his hard earnings anyway.
I have reported benefit cheats that have defrauded the public out of Hundreds of Thousands ..EVERY COUNCILLOR AND MP .There are NO bigger cheats than them ..Start at the top and work your way down . Not pick on the poorest and work you way up just a few rungs of the gravy train ladder .
The ones with the big mouth and the friends all know that if they pick on the poor un-educated folk at the bottom , that shift of focus will allow them to carry on filling thier pockets at our expence.They know that we can't fight back ,and the powers that be dont wanted to point a finger at there own .
Thieves cant afford to fall out ,they know to much about each other .Well these gravy train fat-cats are just the same ,but a damn sight more dangerous..These cheats are so proud of what they are doing they even post thier name and address for all to see .(vote for me)
Lets see how any folk will stand by these gravy train bandits when they axe the child and granny care in the very near future ..The same folk that are taking home £1000.00 a week are the same folk that ran the council debt up .
Mis-management should see them all get the sack ....
Put this on the Rant thread, it qualifies and you may win a prize ;)
I will point out one other thing,I work voluntarily and really enjoy it,it keeps me busy and gives me a sense of purpose but I can also work the hours that suit me round my kids school hours,now once when I applied for some help(I wont go into what for as I feel i have bared my soul enough on here) I was refused it and when "the powers that be" questioned why i was refused the answer was.......she is fit enough to work voluntary so shes fit enough to go get a paid job :eek: like its THAT easy to just pop out and get a job :roll: so it seems that you are damned if you sit on your bum and do nothing and damned if you go out and become useful in some way! x
roadbowler
19-Feb-10, 17:13
yea, thumper lots of folk in your same position i suspect. My best mate worked for a long time as a carer and the person she cared for died in the past 6 months. She instantly lost her job obviously. She has a degree in animal biology and conservation and has been looking for a long time for a career in her field. So, she doing volunteer work in conservation to get her foot in the door for a paid job at the same time applying for loads of jobs and she's no allowed til sign on. So, yea, people that are desperately trying to get work and doing volunteer work to beef up their cv's with work experience get nae help. Her option is if she gets real desperate is to stop volunteer work and do nothing at all so she can sign on. The system is seriously flawed!
cuddlepop
19-Feb-10, 17:55
Does Mr Scott still do the rounds with his lorry on Skye collecting the welks?
I doubt this country could survive without the black economy, there have been times it was the only thing kept us afloat. So someone works hard picking welks so he has a bit of money for whisky and tobacco, when he buys the whisky and tobacco the government gets nine tenths of his hard earnings anyway.
Yes Fred he's still on the go and very busy with collections.:D
Well judging from the posts so far you can tell exactly who is committing benefit fraud :roll:
Well judging from the posts so far you can tell exactly who is committing benefit fraud :roll:
How do you work that out?Is it the ones who are trying to say that not everyone who signs on actually gets money,or the ones who say they wouldnt report it,or what?Just interested on how working class people see it as I for one could not tell simply by a post on a thread no more than I could tell by seeing them walk into the DWP x
roadbowler
19-Feb-10, 19:54
lol. Yea leanne, how DO you work that out? Perhaps you'll enlighten us then we can help you dislodge your foot from your mouth.
Well judging from the posts so far you can tell exactly who is committing benefit fraud :roll:
I really can't see how you've come to that conclusion, Leanne. I certainly can't tell that anyone who's posted is committing any sort of fraud. :confused
I know that I for one am not, and never have done, and I don't think it's fair to make a sweeping eye-rolling assertion like that without backing it up.
Maybe you should enlighten us as to who you think these people are? and what your reasoning is? :confused
Totally agree with you there Angela! I also have never committed fraud and feel that a generalisation like this is very unfair and only causes MORE people to throw accusations around,I guess thats why most people chose not to partake in discussions like this for fear of being accused x
The dole is there for people to get back on their feet, not to live off. Every cheats takes away from every service we have in this country, I do think though that if the minimum wage was increased then more could get back to work.If you have a young couple under 21 or 18 with a child and their minimum wage is so low, they can't afford to not be on benefit.
In Japan you get 6 months to find work , then you get nothing, and up till this rescession they had very low unemployment.They have more respect, I would turn my hand to anything before going to the DOle , though I know some genuinely need it for a time while looking for work.
Well judging from the posts so far you can tell exactly who is committing benefit fraud :roll:
Another fine example of your non-existent logic, Leanne. :lol:
Alice in Blunderland
19-Feb-10, 23:32
I agree that the benefits system in whatever a state good or bad is there as a safety net for those in times of need. This safety net is a vital lifeline to those who need it whether it is abused or not is a different matter. When the safety net then becomes a comfort blanket that many are unwilling to let go that's when you have a problem.
I have seen it from both sides having relied on benefits for a while in the past and now consider myself very fortunate to have the life I have.... however no one knows what is around the corner and as long as there is this type of safety net in place to help those who need it then that can only be seen as a good thing.
Those who abuse it knowingly have their own conscience (or no conscience) to live with their actions and as the saying goes its a long road with no turns.
I would not report anyone as even though I and my husband pay our taxes, once paid, the money is the Governments and it is up to the same Government to introduce (without making claimants feel low about themselves) stringent measures, to ensure those who truly need, get.
Aaldtimer
19-Feb-10, 23:48
Fact: Basic Incapacity Benefit = £91.40 per week (Just over £13 per day).
Fact: Highland Councillor's Lunch Allowance = £12 per day.
:eek:
im sick of paying part of my wages into a system that feeds the lazy gits that either wont get off their arses and work or the ones that work and take the hand out or the feckers that claim disability that can do office jobs lazy lazy lazy feckers hate them all
scottygirl
20-Feb-10, 03:21
The dole is there for people to get back on their feet, not to live off. Every cheats takes away from every service we have in this country, I do think though that if the minimum wage was increased then more could get back to work.If you have a young couple under 21 or 18 with a child and their minimum wage is so low, they can't afford to not be on benefit.
In Japan you get 6 months to find work , then you get nothing, and up till this rescession they had very low unemployment.They have more respect, I would turn my hand to anything before going to the DOle , though I know some genuinely need it for a time while looking for work.
See now the idea that you get benefits for a certain period of time and then they stop sounds good to me. I think there appear to be far too many folk out there who stay on benefits and just don't want to work. I realise that for a lot of folk this is not the case, that they put a lot of effort into getting back into work but for those who just scrounge of the state, they are the ones that should be forced to get a job and off benefits.
This county has lost it's sense of pride in a job well done. Easier to just pop out kids and live off the state.
Obviously, this is just my opinion on it. But I'm sick of stories in the press of folk getting more in benefits than I earn in a year, living in £2million pound houses because they can have lots of kids, all at the the taxpayers expense and yes, that's me. I have worked bl**dy hard since I left school to earn a living and pay my taxes but sometime I wonder why I bother.
I see and know of folk who cheat the system, as to whether I would/have reported them, that's a private matter.
The dole is there for people to get back on their feet, not to live off. Every cheats takes away from every service we have in this country, I do think though that if the minimum wage was increased then more could get back to work.If you have a young couple under 21 or 18 with a child and their minimum wage is so low, they can't afford to not be on benefit.
In Japan you get 6 months to find work , then you get nothing, and up till this rescession they had very low unemployment.They have more respect, I would turn my hand to anything before going to the DOle , though I know some genuinely need it for a time while looking for work.
But what happens when there are more unemployed people than there are jobs available? What happens when every job you apply for has four hundred applicants most of them better qualified than you?
There are two and a half million unemployed in the UK at the moment yet two thirds of businesses are running at full capacity and many are reducing hours for existing workers, many are moving jobs abroad to survive in the current economic crisis.
Fact: Basic Incapacity Benefit = £91.40 per week (Just over £13 per day).
Fact: Highland Councillor's Lunch Allowance = £12 per day.
:eek:
WOW!! is that for real! no wonder all councillors look well fed!:lol:
Theres the answer then,give all us unemployed a job as a councillor and we will all be able to earn our own money and for those who accuse us of fraud they would be nearer the truth for once ;) x
Jobseekers Allowance, single person aged over 25 - £64.30 a week = £9.18 a day.
So - a day's food, heating and everything else - and all for less than the cost of a councillor's lunch! ;)
Alice in Blunderland
20-Feb-10, 12:27
The benefits that are provided to people may be on the low side however it is supposed to be a safety net. :)
In one sentence people are slamming the system for being too generous so that folks don't want to get out and work then in another its quesioning how low it is in comparison to those who are working.................. :confused
Many organisations provide meal allowances for those away from the home for a day and it is comparable to councillors allowances for meals ................
I haven't read all the posts so maybe this has been said before. I don't think people should get money for nothing. If they are able to, they should work for their benifit. clearing up litter, doing pensioners gardens, etc. If they had enough to do they wouldn't be able to take another job on the side.
And of course there are those who are making a fortune dealing in drugs and still claiming benifits.
In one sentence people are slamming the system for being too generous so that folks don't want to get out and work then in another its quesioning how low it is in comparison to those who are working.................. :confused
Many organisations provide meal allowances for those away from the home for a day and it is comparable to councillors allowances for meals ................
I certainly don't think the system is too generous to genuine claimants, Alice and it can be a struggle to get what you're entitled to. I do think that the minimum wage and the tax threshold are too low so that many people in full time work are struggling to make ends meet and this can make living on benefits seem a soft option.
I appreciate that the benefits system is a safely net for when people simply cannot support themselves. But like you (as you said in an earlier post) I have experienced both sides. Having always worked or been bringing up 3 children without claiming a benefit in my life, having paid tax and NI and my OH having always worked and paid tax and NI, I found myself widowed and unable to work after a life threatening illness at the age of 54 left me with chronic health problems. I'd no idea what benefits I could claim - no idea what benefits there were even. :confused
I know I'm not a 'benefit thief' and I don't see myself as a 'scrounger'. I would love to have the life I had before when I was able to work. I have hated the humiliating experience of being forced to claim benefits I am entitled to. The benefits system cheated me out of 3 months widow's allowance and subsequently out of incapacity benefit due to them losing my forms and saying they were sympathetic but could not backdate benefits. I had to pay out of my own pocket for the carer the hospital insisted I had before I was allowed home after 5 months as an in-patient.
This meant I had to use every penny of my savings from my working life before I saw a penny in benefit -well fair enough, it IS a safety net, but those of us who have paid for years and years into the system, it feels unfair to be classed as a lazy person who should somehow magically become fit and able to work again and find a job. Even if I was able to work, and the DWP accept than I am not, there are so many unemployed fit people looking for jobs who will get them long before a disabled person coming up to retirement age.
This thread started out about benefit fraud, but as is so often the case, it turns into a discussion about benefits themselves with little or no distinction between unemployment and disability benefits and the lumping together of 'benefit thieves' and 'benefit scroungers'.
I don't begrudge councillors their lunch allowance, but having costed my lunch yesterday at 23p and my evening meal at 73p, I really don't feel I have an extravagant or enviable lifestyle! ;)
Alice in Blunderland
20-Feb-10, 13:24
I agree Angela at times it just seems so wrong.
The system is in need of overhaul and those who suddenly find themselves signing on for any type of benefit should be able to do so without the fear of being labelled.
The fact that a hotline has been set up by the Government for anyone to phone and point the finger of accusation, is to me not the best way forward. I would not do it as having been on benefits myself someone at any point could have for any reason phoned up and declared I was a cheat what then.............payments stopped, paperwork to fill in pleas to be made and money to be restarted ........ how degrading. :(
These threads almost always turn into lets kick those on benefits up the rear to go out and get a job and scrap benefits debates.
Thank God in this country we do have a safety net that can catch us when we fall how generous that safety net is well that's a whole new debate. :)
I certainly don't think the system is too generous to genuine claimants, Alice and it can be a struggle to get what you're entitled to. I do think that the minimum wage and the tax threshold are too low so that many people in full time work are struggling to make ends meet and this can make living on benefits seem a soft option.
I appreciate that the benefits system is a safely net for when people simply cannot support themselves. But like you (as you said in an earlier post) I have experienced both sides. Having always worked or been bringing up 3 children without claiming a benefit in my life, having paid tax and NI and my OH having always worked and paid tax and NI, I found myself widowed and unable to work after a life threatening illness at the age of 54 left me with chronic health problems. I'd no idea what benefits I could claim - no idea what benefits there were even.
I know I'm not a 'benefit thief' and I don't see myself as a 'scrounger'. I would love to have the life I had before when I was able to work. I have hated the humiliating experience of being forced to claim benefits I am entitled to. The benefits system cheated me out of 3 months widow's allowance and subsequently out of incapacity benefit due to them losing my forms and saying they were sympathetic but could not backdate benefits. I had to pay out of my own pocket for the carer the hospital insisted I had before I was allowed home after 5 months as an in-patient.
This meant I had to use every penny of my savings from my working life before I saw a penny in benefit -well fair enough, it IS a safety net, but those of us who have paid for years and years into the system, it feels unfair to be classed as a lazy person who should somehow magically become fit and able to work again and find a job. Even if I was able to work, and the DWP accept than I am not, there are so many unemployed fit people looking for jobs who will get them long before a disabled person coming up to retirement age.
This thread started out about benefit fraud, but as is so often the case, it turns into a discussion about benefits themselves with little or no distinction between unemployment and disability benefits and the lumping together of 'benefit thieves' and 'benefit scroungers'.
I don't begrudge councillors their lunch allowance, but having costed my lunch yesterday at 23p and my evening meal at 73p, I really don't feel I have an extravagant or enviable lifestyle! ;)
Very well said Angela!:D
As you know I am in the same situation as yourself and hate having to depend on benefits.
Obviously those who class us as being 'lazy' have never suffered ill health for long periods of time.
Of course there are those who will 'milk' the system but I hate how everyone on benefits are suspected of doing this!
As for those who have luxurious lifestyle on benefits I wish I knew their secret!!!:roll:
I haven't read all the posts so maybe this has been said before. I don't think people should get money for nothing. If they are able to, they should work for their benifit. clearing up litter, doing pensioners gardens, etc. If they had enough to do they wouldn't be able to take another job on the side.
And of course there are those who are making a fortune dealing in drugs and still claiming benifits.
Good point.....BUT as before if this was taken onboard you would STILL get those who dont want to work and sit on their bum claiming the huge amount of benefits they get(sarcasam there) and doing nothing and those who do want to work would be out working their bums off so thats not fair either is it?A fact of life is that there ARE people who do not want to work and will do anything to enable them to not have to and then there are those who do want to but simply cant find something that either suits or pays enough but we are all tarred with the same brush no matter what [evil] Try living on benefits for a week or two and see if you feel the same way then,little money and no dignity in it thats for sure!x
Turquoise
20-Feb-10, 14:10
I agree that the system is flawed, that is for sure but if it wasn't for these people claiming benefits which they are NOT entitled to, there would be more money there for the people who are legally claiming what they are entitled to and what they need.
So much of it comes down to plain and simple, laziness. Many of the people who sit on benefits cannot be bothered to apply for jobs, never mind turn up for the jobs if they do get them. As has been said earlier, there is absolutely no point in making the system more complicated as this punishes the people who are entitled to the money. What is needed is more means-testing, but this is someting that is very time consuming to process as there are so many people throughout the UK who claim.
So the answer? Ask the general public to the report the people who they KNOW are illegally claiming benefits.
They are effectively pinching out of your pocket - billions of OUR pounds every year are illegally claimed by criminals.
Another 1,600 lazy scroungers going to be hitting the dole queues soon.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-business/article-23807556-corus-closes-steel-plant-as-lord-mandelson-says-we-wont-walk-away.do
Wonder if we could make them pick up litter for their dole money.
Would you report Benefit Fraud ??
Where is the "No" option ??
It seems down to who you would report, rather than why.
What happens if you are causing trouble for those who have done nothing wrong.
Those who report People wrongly, should be punished just the same as those who are commitiing the benefit fraud are.
Would you report Benefit Fraud ??
Where is the "No" option ??
It seems down to who you would report, rather than why.
What happens if you are causing trouble for those who have done nothing wrong.
Those who report People wrongly, should be punished just the same as those who are commitiing the benefit fraud are.
I completely agree with you bothyman. Someone could just not like someone and report them out of spite.
roadbowler
20-Feb-10, 15:24
good posts liz, bothyman and angela! As liz points out, i think a lot of people report other people simply just because they don't like them. Not just for 'suspected' benefit fraud either! Some people make it a part time job just creating or trying to create trouble for other people. Vindictive and vexatious malice towards others. Sad really because they are worse than any fraudster and what recourse does anybody have against towards these people? Perhaps the £50 reward should be countered with £500 penalties for vexatious complaints and unfounded malicious reporting? That way people who are contemplating reporting people better make sure their complaints are founded on facts and not just mere suspicion, jealousy, ill-will and/or vexation?
cuddlepop
20-Feb-10, 15:33
Would you report Benefit Fraud ??
Where is the "No" option ??
It seems down to who you would report, rather than why.
What happens if you are causing trouble for those who have done nothing wrong.
Those who report People wrongly, should be punished just the same as those who are commitiing the benefit fraud are.
I forgot the No option and once I realised it was too late but i think everyone has got their point across very well.
I think the "fraud squad" would know if anyone had malice intent in reporting someone.
I quite honestly dont think they would, I dont think the fraud squad realises how different country people can be to city people a lot of back stabbing and hate campaigns go on in small places might not be as physical as it can be in citys but in my honest opinion verbal can be just as bad.
Im not adding a comment on any of the other posts as it just turns into an attack and I cant be bothered with it.
People wouldnt have to report or take to do with other people if they had more of a life of there own, I think its sad when its the highlight of someones day to know/think they know what people are doing when in all honesty they dont have a clue what goes on behind closed doors.
I think if we concentrated more on ourselves and not what everyone else was doing we would all get along better. Im not intrested in gossiping or putting people down and I like to find out for myself what people are like because 90% of the time people are wrong.
I forgot the No option and once I realised it was too late but i think everyone has got their point across very well.
I think the "fraud squad" would know if anyone had malice intent in reporting someone.
Having been out of work a couple of times and spent time signing on, I can see both sides.
Yes the system is flawed, especially when dealing with illness and incapacity, but there isn't the scope to allow people to deliberately defraud the system.
The only labels I'm seeing in this thread are from within.
I have seen people pull up in a works van around the corner from the signing on office, change their clothes, then go and sign on. The job they had was probably paying reasonable money too by the looks of things.
What a lot of people seem to think is they should sit back on benefits until a nice job comes along that they like and pays what they want. That's not really the spirit of the scheme.
And it is far easier to get another job or change jobs than it is to go from being unemployed.
This is a typical Org thread in which benefit cheats, career benefit claimants, the long term unemployed, the temporarily unemployed and those unable to work due to health or family/personal problems are lumped together under one umbrella and rained upon................
Having been out of work a couple of times and spent time signing on, I can see both sides.
Yes the system is flawed, especially when dealing with illness and incapacity, but there isn't the scope to allow people to deliberately defraud the system.
The only labels I'm seeing in this thread are from within.
I have seen people pull up in a works van around the corner from the signing on office, change their clothes, then go and sign on. The job they had was probably paying reasonable money too by the looks of things.
What a lot of people seem to think is they should sit back on benefits until a nice job comes along that they like and pays what they want. That's not really the spirit of the scheme.
And it is far easier to get another job or change jobs than it is to go from being unemployed.
I cant see why people would get changed and then go in and sign on,its only £62 and at the end of the day if you are out of work for more than six months and then get a job you are guaranteed to get an extra £40 a week for the first year no matter how much you earn,so why would someone risk being caught?For £20?It doesnt seem wrth it! x
cuddlepop
20-Feb-10, 18:24
I never realised you actually get payed to "inform" on suspected benefit theives,that I dont agree with.:(
Its been an interesting read and I wish I'd put no in the options as it would have made more statistical sense.
Next time I'll pm Crayola to "proof read" my poll options,afterall she's the professional.;)
This is a typical Org thread in which benefit cheats, career benefit claimants, the long term unemployed, the temporarily unemployed and those unable to work due to health or family/personal problems are lumped together under one umbrella and rained upon................
Completely agree with you Crayola.
What people must remember is that every case is individual and how can anyone know all the facts?
As someone who hasn't been able to work for many years due to ill health I find it very hurtful to be portrayed as a 'lazy scrounger'.
I would gladly swap with anyone who thinks that life on benefits is a cushy number.
Whilst I am really grateful for the help the state give me it is degrading having to 'prove' this to the authorities through medicals etc and enduring the worry that they may force me to work when I know I am not fit.
I know that I look quite healthy and, apart from having to use a walking stick sometimes, you would never know there is anything wrong with me.
People should think long and hard before judging others.
I like Cuddlepop's signature, maybe some people should try it before they judge others ;).
>>>>>>>
Never judge someone until you have walked two moons in their moccasins.:grin:
Native American Indian saying.
I like Cuddlepop's signature, maybe some people should try it before they judge others ;).
>>>>>>>
Never judge someone until you have walked two moons in their moccasins.:grin:
Native American Indian saying.
I always say you should never criticise someone till you've walked a mile in their shoes.
That way when you slag them off they're a mile away with no shoes on and can't do much about it.
I always say you should never criticise someone till you've walked a mile in their shoes.
That way when you slag them off they're a mile away with no shoes on and can't do much about it.
Good one Fred!lol:lol:
Lol love this xx:lol::lol::lol:
I always say you should never criticise someone till you've walked a mile in their shoes.
That way when you slag them off they're a mile away with no shoes on and can't do much about it.
Dog-eared
20-Feb-10, 19:54
I agree with CUDDLEPOP that she should have put " NO " as an option in the poll. Good debate, although it's a bit like having a poll that says -
Do you want to bring back capital punishment
Hanging
Electric chair
Lethal Injection
Firing Squad
Etc
Good topic though Cuddlepop.:D
I agree with CUDDLEPOP that she should have put " NO " as an option in the poll. Good debate, although it's a bit like having a poll that says -
Do you want to bring back capital punishment
Hanging
Electric chair
Lethal Injection
Firing Squad
Etc
Good topic though Cuddlepop.:D
So which would you say were the best workers, someone on benefits earning a few quid on the side or someone the Job Centre sent you getting 15 quid a week on top of their dole?
Dog-eared
20-Feb-10, 20:55
So which would you say were the best workers, someone on benefits earning a few quid on the side or someone the Job Centre sent you getting 15 quid a week on top of their dole?
I would say that there is a difference between trainees that want to be there and those that have been sent there, in the course of my work as a trainer for various bodies..:)
Which would relate to motivation among young unemployed people.
Dog-eared
20-Feb-10, 21:01
So which would you say were the best workers, someone on benefits earning a few quid on the side or someone the Job Centre sent you getting 15 quid a week on top of their dole?
No experience of either as an employer. Thanks>:D
No experience of either thanks>:D
You'll be telling me next you never ate breakfast off a china plate :-)
Dog-eared
20-Feb-10, 21:42
Err... what's a china plate...:lol::lol:
Off thread..............
Err... what's a china plate...:lol::lol:
Off thread..............
Better bring it back on topic then.
I reckon we could save a few bob on benefit payments if we used a bit of common sense.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7028401.ece
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