View Full Version : Councillor Rosie & Gaelic
Am I the only one baffled by Coucillor Rosie's resentment towards the Gaelic language?
I read the Courier today. He complains bitterly that any money at all is being spent on developing a Gaelic language plan in the NHS. Fair enough, legitimate argument. He goes on to complain the NHS isn't arranging public meetings as part of a consultation, presumably so people like him can go along and complain at how much the meetings cost to put on. Mixed messages or what?
I'm not fussed about bilingual stuff. I understand why the Scot Gov wants to raise the profile though - it's a strong part of the country's culture.
It's one thing for a cooncillor to promote his area's own culture. But it's something else to trash other people's culture. I mean, it's not as if Gaelic will displace any indigenous language, will it? Unless you regard English as the historic language of Caithness I suppose.
Maybe Mr Rosie would be better spending his time identifying with the culture of Caithness, whatever others think that may be, and putting energy into promoting that. He might even find there's a pot of money set aside for it!
buddyrich
19-Aug-09, 23:10
I think his time would be better spent elsewhere i.e not on the council.
Whitewater
19-Aug-09, 23:12
Councillor Rosie like many of us resents having the Gaelic language forced upon us by an unelected Quango.
I, like many others would have no objection to Gaelic road signs etc. if commom sense had been displayed and the Gaelic names were the secondary names on the sinage. Gaelic is no longer the so called national language of Scotland, nor had it ever been a national language.
Foreign visitors are confused enough on our roads in Caithness which are classed as the most dangerous in Britain, without them have to try to understand a language they have probably never knew existed. But as with all Quangos commmon sense goes out the window, the Gaelic Quango in particular does not seem to understand the meaning of the simple English word "consultation"
buddyrich
19-Aug-09, 23:23
I also think this gaelic thing is a silly waste of time, regardless of my snide remarks about the councillor.
It is not a part of the country's culture i think, rather it's a feature of the historic culture of certain parts of the country. It would be a shame for gaelic to be lost but there are so many enthusiasts for it on the west coast particularly, that it'll never disappear. I heard a hilariously porentous woman interviewed on radio scotland the other week, telling us that we owe it to history to put millions into gaelic despite it not being anyones first language. Yawn.
It certainly has no relevance in day to day life in caithness, where we speak a wacky form of norse-infected scots and have done for a quite a long time.
I agree with Councillor Rosie and apart from Whitewaters support for gaelic signs i agree with him too.
The Quango doent have to consult. It has the power to demand.
My experience of Ḅrd na Gàidhlig fits in with gleeber's comments. It is an organisation populated with previously irrelevant and powerless nobodies who suddenly find themselves with inordinate power which they are wielding indiscriminately. When challenged, their excuse is that they have a mandate from the Scottish Government or Parliament. They are like an out-of-control third-world government militia. I forsee trouble ahead.
Whitewater
19-Aug-09, 23:55
Hi Gleeber, I'm inclined to agree with you, but as these things are being forced upon us I think a sensible approach would do the trick. I do not want the Gaelic signs on the roads or in hospitals, but if we are to be forced to accept them then the Gaelic should be secondary.
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/bills/billsPassed/b69s1.pdf
I had a fairly relaxed opinion towards Gaelic signs in Caithness until I realised how much Gaeldom had infected modern day Scottish politics. I have no affinity towards anything Gaelic apart from a wish to be freindly with Gaels and to respect their culture.
Crayolas right. Troubles brewing because I dont think many people are aware of the political clout the Gaelic quango hold. The Gaelic bill (link above) is worth reading. It's purpose is to give the Gaelic language an equal footing in Scotland to the english language although like Thatcher and the poll tax they are being selective about where they start their purge. Fotunately or unfortunately Highland is included in the fist attack because some of it will be sympathetic to the gaelic cause but most natural born caithnessians will know we have no affinity with Gaelic language or culture although our history of welcoming incomers to the county cannot be faulted.
Councilor Rosie and all the other councillors who are aware of the deep rooted non Gaelic psyche of the Caithness people need applauded and supported.
here we go again...
Do you have anything useful to say or are you an irrelevant and powerless nobody? :roll:
I think you'll find I've had my say on this topic on previous posts...as has everyone else! Thats why Im saying here we go again...
No, the other threads were mostly about Gaelic road signs. This thread is different, it is about the NHS spending our taxes on useless Gaelic literature as a consequence of the unfettered power of the Gaelic religious police aka Ḅrd na Gàidhlig.
here we go again...
It's easy to just give in Kenneth but councillor Rosie echoes the thoughts of thousands of Caithnessians both local and settled.
The issue over Gaelic signs or spending money on NHS literature are the same. It's about a Quango of academics and in some cases pseudo Gaels imposing their romantic vision of a modern Scotland on the rest of us. The fault doesnt quite lie with the quango though. They are just taking advantage of the power bestowed on them by the Scottish Parliament.
Without doing any research on the subject an educated guess tells me that in their haste to create a seperate Scottish identity after the formation of the parliament in the late 90s the politicians, no doubt egged on by a Gaelic lobby in Parliament, saw the formation of a Gaelic body as the way forward.
It's too late to change it now without an almighty battle. Ignoring it will strengthen their position.
Most Caithness councillors are aware of the deep rooted problems associated with imposing Gaelic on Caithness and support Councillor Rosie.
Those of us who are able to express our opinions and deep rooted feelings have an obligation to oppose this reformation in the county of caithness.
Councillor Rosie is doing just that.
I have no objection to the gaelic language or to it's people. What I do object strongly to is the additional expense that is being foisted onto us as tax payers. The NHS has been ordered to promote the gaelic and although the initial consultant fees for this is being covered by the Quango it appears, they have been told that they will have to find the money for the implementation of all that is required to comply. This includes staff being expected to learn the gealic. In this present day when all we hear about is the cut backs of our core services, how can any organisation justify forcing money to be redirected from the front line into something that less than 5% of our total nation (and a lot less locally) can understand. At least councilor Rosie is speaking for what appears to be the majority.
Am I the only one baffled by Councillor Rosie's resentment towards the Gaelic language? <snip>.....
The short answer to your question is "probably not".
The long answer is much more complex and involves many more questions such as :-
Why did you not provide a link to the original publication?
What is your issue with Councillor Rosie?
Etc, etc.
Are you getting my drift ?
Having read the article in the Courier I decided to look on the NHS Highland website and eventually found the relevant page hidden away under News http://www.nhshighland.scot.nhs.uk/News/Pages/NHSHighlandtoseekviewsonGaelicLanguagePlan.aspx
I do not believe it is the job of the NHS to promote Gaelic use. Their job is to provide a health service and in their present cash-strapped situation, resulting in cuts left right and centre, this is a complete waste of money. They have already spent £80,000 on consultants. How much is putting all these suggestions into practice going to cost and how many far more important services will be lost as a result?
I quite understand that anyone who does not speak English needs a translator if they are to be treated properly. The rest is nonsense.
We already have neglected roads due to lack of money, yet it seems Gaelic road signs are essential. Now we shall have neglected patients so some can watch Gaelic tv in hospital.
Cllr. Rosie is quite right to continue protesting and I hope as many people as possible will tell NHS Highland to stop wasting our money.
Unfortunately the NHS cant do anything about it. They have to do what they are told by the quango appointed by the Scottish parliament.
Every government body in the region has to produce a Gaelic plan and implement it within 2 years.
What is your issue with Councillor Rosie?
I dont know Mr Rosie and I've never met him, so no quibble with him personally.
He's elected to lead. I just think, in a place like the Highlands, it is counter-productive to keep trashing the Gaelic language when no alternative culture is being promoted.
Not exactly the way to win friends and influence people in the Highland Council.
I'm sure you wouldn't have to look very hard at all to find enormous waste of resources within the council. Perhaps we'd be all be better served if he looked there, instead of continually knocking every body that complies with the policy of the Scot Gov.
As I say, it is one thing to promote your own culture; it is something else to trash those of others.
northener
20-Aug-09, 23:48
.......He's elected to lead. I just think, in a place like the Highlands, it is counter-productive to keep trashing the Gaelic language when no alternative culture is being promoted.
........
And why should we 'promote' any one 'culture' over another? Be it Gaelic or whatever?
And why should we 'promote' any one 'culture' over another? Be it Gaelic or whatever?
Forgive me, I thought the issue here was an objection to the Gaelic culture being "imposed" on Caithness.
If Gaelic has no place in the culture of Caithness, which is how I'm interpreting some of this stuff, then what are the cultural values of Caithness that should be promoted?
I think I know what Mr Rosie and others do NOT want. But what is the culture they want to preserve and what is being done to promote that?
As I said in my original post, that would be a far more constructive use of resources, which I'm sure are available for that type of thing. Instead, we seem to be in a destructive cycle that, to be honest, doesn't actually achieve anything other than stoke up resentment towards Caithness in those parts of the Highlands where they have been more successful at developing and promoting their culture.
Welcome what you cannot change . . . an old Chinese proverb, I think.
Forgive me, I thought the issue here was an objection to the Gaelic culture being "imposed" on Caithness.
If Gaelic has no place in the culture of Caithness, which is how I'm interpreting some of this stuff, then what are the cultural values of Caithness that should be promoted?
I think I know what Mr Rosie and others do NOT want. But what is the culture they want to preserve and what is being done to promote that?
As I said in my original post, that would be a far more constructive use of resources, which I'm sure are available for that type of thing. Instead, we seem to be in a destructive cycle that, to be honest, doesn't actually achieve anything other than stoke up resentment towards Caithness in those parts of the Highlands where they have been more successful at developing and promoting their culture.
Welcome what you cannot change . . . an old Chinese proverb, I think.
Why do they need to promote anything? Just because they don't want or disagree with Gaelic signs etc does not mean they have to conjure up some other aspect they want promoted.
Does anyone else think the title of this thread 'Councillor Rosie and Gaelic' sounds like a menu item from Le Bistro in Thurso?
Does anyone have the recipe? :)
northener
21-Aug-09, 10:33
Does anyone else think the title of this thread 'Councillor Rosie and Gaelic' sounds like a menu item from Le Bistro in Thurso?
Does anyone have the recipe? :)
It would probably leave a bad taste in your mouth......
northener
21-Aug-09, 10:46
Regarding 'promotion' of Caithness and Gaelic, my point is that we seem to be having foisted upon us some 'culture' that, at best, hasn't been relevent around here for some time.
That doesn't mean that at present there is a tangible alternative that we should sieze upon. And there won't be for some time, as it appears our chums elsewhere are devoting all their time and effort into spreading the Gaelic culture across Scotland - at the expense of more valid local variation.
To Gaelicise the whole of Scotland (which is where they would like to head IMO) is as ridiculous as promoting nationwide Ginger wigs and shouting of "Och, aye. Jimmy". It is standardising a country that has never had one standard.
It is merely producing a romantic Disneyesque stereotype that serves no purpose but to differentiate Scots from the rest of the UK. On the surface, this could be seen to be a noble cause...but not at the expense of local communities own sense of identity and regional variation.
I'd sooner not jump on any 'promotion' for the time being. It would be better if we had out own local Quango to address the issue - not some distant bunch of chumps who are as remote from Caithness physically as they are in their compassion for it.
Next they'll expect everyone to wander around lamenting in the heather and singing about Bonnie Prince Charlie.........
I dont know Mr Rosie and I've never met him, so no quibble with him personally.
He's elected to lead. I just think, in a place like the Highlands, it is counter-productive to keep trashing the Gaelic language when no alternative culture is being promoted.
Not exactly the way to win friends and influence people in the Highland Council.
I'm sure you wouldn't have to look very hard at all to find enormous waste of resources within the council. Perhaps we'd be all be better served if he looked there, instead of continually knocking every body that complies with the policy of the Scot Gov.
As I say, it is one thing to promote your own culture; it is something else to trash those of others.
Maybe you didn't read Wick66's post. I haven't heard/read anyone objecting to spending much needed money on all this translation into Gaelic who can be accused of "trashing" Gaelic. It's a beautiful language and is already supported by tv, many schools, Mods etc. What we do not need are bi-lingual signs and documents where the majority speak English and those who don't could equally well have some other language as their first.
Cllr. Rosie, like the majority of Caithness councillors, is just being pragmatic. Right now we can't afford anything except essentials and this is not essential. £80,000 spent on consultants - is that really money well spent (except for the consultants)?
As a "natural born Caithnessian" I would like to record my support for the provision of Gaelic Language resources within NHS Highland.
I find Mr Rosies comments provocative and in accurate.
A telling comment from the NHS reported in the P&J -
"An NHS Highland spokeswoman said yesterday the language plan was being prepared in response to the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act 2005, agreed by the Scottish Parliament. Bord na Gaidhlig, she said, had the authority to require organisations to act and had set the end of the year as the deadline for a plan to be drawn up.
The spokeswoman said: “None of the actions in our draft plan would mean diverting money from patient care.”
While a seperate argument could be made for recognition of local Caithness/Norse identity in the matter of Road Signs in Caithness -this matter is by no means the same and it is not local to Caithness.
NHS Highland serves a large Gaelic constituency, (arguably the gaelic heartland).
Are you arguing that the gaelic community should not able to use their language in their own communities, particularly during periods of distress in their lives ?
While those objecting profess that they are not against the language - and Gaelic speakers should be able to use it if they want - they systimatically object to any public recognition of the language - or any development that would allow the language to be use in everyday situation within its own community.
Are you arguing that the gaelic community should not able to use their language in their own communities, particularly during periods of distress in their lives ?
While those objecting profess that they are not against the language - and Gaelic speakers should be able to use it if they want - they systimatically object to any public recognition of the language - or any development that would allow the language to be use in everyday situation within its own community.
No. Not at all although I understand your point and is something that would probably to be considered were the Gaelic bill ever to be challenged in the European court of human rights.
All Gaelic speakers are fluent English speakers and will have no problem with the present NHS literature. Theres no need to take it personally if they dont use your language on the literature. For goodness sake you can read English.
Personally I find Councillor Rosies comments emotive and practical.But I would. I'm a 'natural born Caithnessian' too. the language of my county and country has always been English. I never realised there were Gaelic cultures or Gaelic communities until I was in my 30s. It's been a long time since caithness has been like that, if ever! The only Gaelic I ever heard growing up was usually associated with good wishes being passed between men with a glass of whisky in their hand.
I'm just beginning to see how deeply this Gaelic act will will penetrate into Scottish life.
What about the Orkneys and Shetland? When is it going to hit there? Can you forsee any problems coming from them?
The more power this Quango gets the more money it will need. There's no doubt people will jump on the Gaelic badwagon because they are being encouraged to. Its going to cost a fortune.
Politically it's practical to oppose the Gaelic bill without being prejudiced towards Gaelic. I'm not!
That being said Ive had to consider why I oppose this bill and I have to admit some of it has to do with my idea of my cultural and ancestral background. I do feel kind of attacked by this Parliamentary act and I think the Scottish perliament didt think out the consequences when they were throwing out powers to it's various quangos.
I have no objection to the promotion of the Gaelic language, but in the present economic climate when so many more things are more essential, I think the Scottish Government should spend any available money more wisely, than unnecessary quangos and "jobs for the boys".http://forum.caithness.org/images/icons/icon8.gif
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