BNP Leaflets

[Wickbhoy]

Been out the house for a few days, returned today to be greeted by fascist propaganda behind the door. [mad]

Anyone else received these, also does anyone know the knuckle-dragging morons who have decided to distribute this racist filth?

[Kodiak]

I think everyone will be getting them, I know I did today and it was torn up and placed in a very safe place, the bin.

I think that Royal Mail might have been employed to deliver them to every household. Dont blame the Postie they are only doing what they have been told to do by their Employer.

[changilass]

Unless they were to be banned as a party they have as much right as any other political party to shove crap through your door, personally I would ban them all from littering my door mat.

[riggerboy]

i got 1 aswell but i am already a member, before you jump on the band wagon i think you should read their policies,

[Bazeye]

Knuckle dragging. Morons. Fascist. Racist. Congratulations, you win the most cliches in a post award. What I dont understand though is if the BNP are as bad as the press say, why do they have to tell blatent lies about them. :confused

[Wickbhoy]

Riggerboy, what bandwagon are you referring to? Also what made you join such an extreme right-wing organisation?

Bazeye, they are racist they are fascist they are morons. Maybe I went too far with the knuckle dragging comment. I really don't care what the press print as I don't read newspapers. However, no-one needs to lie about the BNP to make them out to be 'bad'. Listen to what their members have to say, visit their website.

As for the posties who delivered this crap, shame on them, they should take a leaf out of the book of their colleagues in the West Country, link below.

http://www.marketingdirectmag.co.uk/news/906396/Royal-Mail-posties-refuse-deliver-BNP-door-drops/

[Bazeye]

Riggerboy, what bandwagon are you referring to? Also what made you join such an extreme right-wing organisation?

Bazeye, they are racist they are fascist they are morons. Maybe I went too far with the knuckle dragging comment. I really don't care what the press print as I don't read newspapers. However, no-one needs to lie about the BNP to make them out to be 'bad'.

http://www.marketingdirectmag.co.uk/news/906396/Royal-Mail-posties-refuse-deliver-BNP-door-drops/

You also forgot to mention they havent been ripping the tax payers off for years.

[Wickbhoy]

What kind of point is that? The only people who can rip-off tax payers are elected MPs, thankfully no constituency has been stupid enough to return a member of the scum.

[riggerboy]

the "they are racist band wagon" go and read on me boy, they want what we want, if the labour party had the bottle to take on the policies of the BNP the country would be in a better state today, british jobs for british folks, put a stop to the influx of so called asylum seekers, i`m not going to go on and on, each to their own and i`m with the BNP,

[Wickbhoy]

''they want what we want''... who are 'we'?

I certainly do not want what the BNP want and yes they are racist, there is no bandwagon.

[Bazeye]

Postal ballots in Copeland council for the Euro election on June 4th, are this year being stored in cardboard boxes until counting day, whereas every other year they have been stored in steel padlocked boxes. I wonder if this is anything to do with the fact that the BNP polled 40% of the vote in the Kells by-election in December, or is that just me being cynical? We are either a democracy or we arent. You cant pick which parts of it you want and which parts you dont want.

[Wickbhoy]

What are you going on about now? This thread has nothing to do with the question of Democracy in this country, it is about the BNP and their policies.

Also that by-election was for ONE council ward and only a QUARTER of the electorate bothered voting.

It does however highlight the danger of voter apathy as exteremists who support the BNP will always vote, so if others don't then they have a chance.

By the way, you win the award for worst hastily-googled-BNP-fact post.

[Bazeye]

What are you going on about now? This thread has nothing to do with the question of Democracy in this country, it is about the BNP and their policies.

Of course its about democracy. They have as much right to canvass for votes and distribute literature as any other party, whether you agree with their policy or not. Im not bothering to reply to any more posts on this thread now as its been done to death on other forums so just keep your head buried in the sand.

[Wickbhoy]

You're replies are pointless and poorly thought out anyway. Keep apologising for fascism.

[Alice in Blunderland]

british jobs for british folks

Well if thats the case then maybe they should set about sorting out the benefits system first . ;)

Some of the British Folks dont seem to want the good old British jobs because they are better off sitting back claiming benefits whilst other folks come over here and do these jobs for them. Contributing into the tax system at the same time.

[hotrod4]

Cant see what all the fuss is about.They are a legal party.Would people still complain if it was an SNP leaflet? I am offended by the SNP's agenda as I dont agree with it,so is it OK for me to diss them and make wrong accusations that people think it ok to say about the BNP?
They may not be everyones cup of tea but they have the same rights to promote themsleves as any other party.If you dont agree with them do what you do to all mail you think is junk, Bin it!!!! and move on.

[Gizmo]

Cant see what all the fuss is about.They are a legal party.Would people still complain if it was an SNP leaflet? I am offended by the SNP's agenda as I dont agree with it,so is it OK for me to diss them and make wrong accusations that people think it ok to say about the BNP?
They may not be everyones cup of tea but they have the same rights to promote themsleves as any other party.If you dont agree with them do what you do to all mail you think is junk, Bin it!!!! and move on.

Good post Hotrod, as you say. they have the same rights as any other party.

I only have an outline understanding of the BNP, but here's my view anyway.
On the surface, what they say on their leaflet appeals to me..."Yes to Putting British People First".."No to EU Rule & the Euro"..."No to Immigration & Unemployment".."No to High Taxes & Rip-Off Britain"...i like the sound of all that, but i would NEVER join the BNP, firstly...this is Not! a 'British National Party'...it's an 'English National Party', and secondly...a lot of the people involved are just racist.."Enter choice of expletive here", i've seen the 'Undecover Documentaries' where Nick Griffin and his cronies spout their racial hatred, we've seen what goes on behind closed doors with the BNP...and a lot of it ain't very nice, so until they have a complete overhall of the people running it, and actually become a 'National Party', i won't be listening to them.

[pinotnoir]

THe BNP leader is an anti-semite who has been a Holocaust denier (which in much of mainland Europe is a crime), their supporters and those who vote for them are tainted by association with such views.

[hotrod4]

THe BNP leader is an anti-semite who has been a Holocaust denier (which in much of mainland Europe is a crime), their supporters and those who vote for them are tainted by association with such views.
You have a point but does that also mean that if you are Tory,Labour etc does that then mean that you are a thief who makes false expense clams?[lol]
After all they've all been caught with their hands in the cookie jar!

[Rheghead]

Good post Hotrod, as you say. they have the same rights as any other party.

I only have an outline understanding of the BNP, but here's my view anyway.
On the surface, what they say on their leaflet appeals to me..."Yes to Putting British People First".."No to EU Rule & the Euro"..."No to Immigration & Unemployment".."No to High Taxes & Rip-Off Britain"...i like the sound of all that, but i would NEVER join the BNP, firstly...this is Not! a 'British National Party'...it's an 'English National Party', and secondly...a lot of the people involved are just racist.."Enter choice of expletive here", i've seen the 'Undecover Documentaries' where Nick Griffin and his cronies spout their racial hatred, we've seen what goes on behind closed doors with the BNP...and a lot of it ain't very nice, so until they have a complete overhall of the people running it, and actually become a 'National Party', i won't be listening to them.

That's largely what I think of them as well except that I think it is British rather than English.

[buddyrich]

It's classic divisive minority politics. I got one of those leaflets thru the door. Noone's going to disagree with things like Putting Britain First, or No To High Taxes. It's a respectable friendly face to draw people in to what is actually a pathetic fringe group. It's a hell of a shame they're making gains. It says a lot about the betrayal people feel as a result of the monkeying around the real parties have been up to.

It also says a lot about the intelligence level of people who would consider voting for such human trash as nick griffin.

But then i feel that way about Salmond. Not that im saying he's a nazi because he's not! He's just a wine-guzzling potato man.

[riggerboy]

Well if thats the case then maybe they should set about sorting out the benefits system first . ;)

Some of the British Folks dont seem to want the good old British jobs because they are better off sitting back claiming benefits whilst other folks come over here and do these jobs for them. Contributing into the tax system at the same time.

please check out the BNP policies for unemployment it makes for some very interesting reading,

[~~Tides~~]

As buddyrich said, nobody is going to disagree with more jobs, fairer taxes etc. But the BNP is just using this as a front to pretend that they are a moderate party. They are using these universally acceptable policies to hide what are their real and dispicable views on the world.

They also have an absolute cheek to take the moral high ground as they seem to be doing in respect to the MPs expenses row. The absolute vast majority of MP in the House of Commons got there because they are decent, hard working people. Fair enough a lot of them played the system, but that is more human nature, let he who is without sin... But these people are not criminals. Many of the BNPs candedates have hideous convictions for all sorts, from inciting hatred to out and out violence. I find it repulsive that these ignorant and in many cases dispicable scum think that they can pretend that they are better than our current MPs and 'the answer'.

Interesting article, that those who 'read the BNP's policies' should also read:
Guardian Article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/may/31/bnp-european-elections-facebook-expose)



The BNP can't have all that much respect for the people of the UK if they think that they are stupid enough to swallow their rubbish.



Also,

Here are some actual quotes from BNP members, they truly speak for themselves:

“Honestly now, would you prefer your kid growing up in Oldham and Burnley or 1930s Germany? It would be better for your child to grow up there.”
Mark Collett, leader of the Young BNP on Channel 4 in 2004

“Meanwhile, the indigenous side in the low-to-medium level civil war brewing in this country is getting its training… It’s all going to get very messy.”
Nick Griffin’s blog on BNP website

“Rape is simply sex. Women enjoy sex, so rape cannot be such a terrible physical ordeal… [It] is like suggesting forcefeeding a woman chocolate cake is a heinous offence.”
Then BNP London organiser and GLA candidate, Nick Eriksen

AIDS is “a friendly disease because blacks, drug users and gays have it.”
Mark Collett, leader of the Young BNP on Channel 4 in 2004

[The Pepsi Challenge]

I never thought I'd see the day where the BNP would hand out leaflets in broad daylight in one of Scotland's city centers, but they did today, in Glasgow. Those handing them out were Scottish, too, or at least the guy who responded to me when I swore at him was.

[-whitewall-]

I never thought I'd see the day where the BNP would hand out leaflets in broad daylight in one of Scotland's city centers, but they did today, in Glasgow. Those handing them out were Scottish, too, or at least the guy who responded to me when I swore at him was.


its called democracy. Glad your so tolerant, bit like living in nazi germany with you i'd imagine.

oh hang on.....

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Freedom of speech is one thing, but you cannot allow organisations - which use the cover of freedom of speech to pedal racist views - to go unchecked. Ifthe BNP want to peddle their filth and hate then I should be allowed to tell the scumbags exactly how unwelcome their mentalism is here.

[-whitewall-]

Freedom of speech is one thing, but you cannot allow organisations - which use the cover of freedom of speech to pedal racist views - to go unchecked. Ifthe BNP want to peddle their filth and hate then I should be allowed to tell the scumbags exactly how unwelcome their mentalism is here.


If they really are inciting racial hatred then they'd end up in court, which Nick Griffin has been, and was cleared. Whats shouting in the street going to do except make you look stupid ? Did the BNP bod pack up and go home ? The BNP campaigners I have seen in the past thrive on these sorts of things and all you did was draw attention to them.

[greenasiamcabbagelooking]

The BNP campaigners I have seen in the past thrive on these sorts of things and all you did was draw attention to them.

so what we just quietly 'tut' and go on our way ?!

i applaud your actions Pepsi and would encourage all right minded people to do the same.

i guarantee there were a lot of people who wish they had the bottle to speak their mind to the BNP as Pepsi did, but wouldn't do so because they know that behind the facade of a political party is a bunch of violent, right wing thugs.

[-whitewall-]

so what we just quietly 'tut' and go on our way ?!

i applaud your actions Pepsi and would encourage all right minded people to do the same.

i guarantee there were a lot of people who wish they had the bottle to speak their mind to the BNP as Pepsi did, but wouldn't do so because they know that behind the facade of a political party is a bunch of violent, right wing thugs.


just dont vote for them, or go and question them and pull them up on their policies or the fact they dont allow non white to become members etc.

All shouting swear words at them does is make you look like mugs and makes them look hard done by and end up with some sort of sympathy vote. Ive heard and read of people saying they'll vote for them simply because people keep harping on and on about them.

If they are a party of violent right wing thugs then you've nothing to worry about do you ?

[~~Tides~~]

If they really are inciting racial hatred then they'd end up in court, which Nick Griffin has been, and was cleared.

Yes because we all know that the courts are always always right, miscarriage of justice is a word none of us know, pah! He got off on a legal technicality! [disgust] Certainly doesn't mean he is innocent. In Scotland the virdict would have been 'not proven', but this is not available to courts in England.


The problem with having any sort of debate with these people is that by the time they support such awful politics they are already much to ignorant to have sensible discussion with anyway. Pepsi was only speaking in the only language they understand.

Its true that we do live in a democracy and we do have freedom of speech etc, but the only reason we have this was in response to the atrocities carried out by the far right in the 20th century. As such I find it truly ironic and beyond the pale that these people now use these provisions to justify their hate spreading.

[TBH]

They also have an absolute cheek to take the moral high ground as they seem to be doing in respect to the MPs expenses row. The absolute vast majority of MP in the House of Commons got there because they are decent, hard working people. Fair enough a lot of them played the system, but that is more human nature, let he who is without sin... But these people are not criminals.[lol][lol] Those MPs that "Played the system", are criminals. They should be arrested for fraud, as happens to those on the dole that "play the system".

[-whitewall-]

Yes because we all know that the courts are always always right, miscarriage of justice is a word none of us know, pah! He got off on a legal technicality! [disgust] Certainly doesn't mean he is innocent.


But he is innocent, or does innocent until proven guilty only apply in certain cases ?



The problem with having any sort of debate with these people is that by the time they support such awful politics they are already much to ignorant to have sensible discussion with anyway. Pepsi was only speaking in the only language they understand.

Smacks of arrogance that, like it or not they are on the increase and people from a wide range of society will turn out and vote for them. Its true in the past (and im sure until now) a number of members had links with the NF etc but as you would have noticed from the leaked membership list some of the occupations certainly werent your usual knuckle dragging skinhead holocaust denying nutjobs.



Its true that we do live in a democracy and we do have freedom of speech etc, but the only reason we have this was in response to the atrocities carried out by the far right in the 20th century. As such I find it truly ironic and beyond the pale that these people now use these provisions to justify their hate spreading.


I hate a lot of what the BNP are about, the issue over non-whites not being allowed to become members, the leadership, the ghurkas row etc, and I did chuckle to myself when I picked up their leaflet off the floor and noticed a picture of Winston Churchill, who was very liberal, now THATS irony !

[greenasiamcabbagelooking]

werent your usual knuckle dragging skinhead holocaust denying nutjobs.


knuckle dragging skinhead holocaust denying nutjobs none the less, the only difference is that they wear a tie or a uniform instead of the bomber jacket and 10 hole cherry doc martins.
respectable politics has been turned on it's head, who to vote for is a quandry and that is where the BNP will try to take advantage.

i hate to suggest it riggerboy etc, but it's usually the feeble minded/daily mail readers who believe in their limited policies ... can you tell me what the BNP's policy is on nuclear disarmament ? fisheries policy ? windfarms ? etc etc ?

the BNP have such a tiny minority in the UK despite what the opinion polls might say,
i love the irony of the BNP as well whitewall, in their latest ad, Nick Griffin was sitting in front of a load of books !

[greenasiamcabbagelooking]

:lol:

agreed, I've always said, let Griffin on Question Time, and let the audience and other panelists rip him to shreds. That will go a lot further than someone shouting at them in the street, which just galvanises them even more.

:lol: can you imagine it ? i'd pay good money to see that !

[The Pepsi Challenge]

:lol:

agreed, I've always said, let Griffin on Question Time, and let the audience and other panelists rip him to shreds. That will go a lot further than someone shouting at them in the street, which just galvanises them even more.

I walked past the BNP campaigners and one attempted to give me a leaflet. I told him I had no intention of supporting a party that denies the holocaust, and that they are a wholesale embarrassment. I was wearing a T-shirt with a D-Day Remembrance print, which he spotted, to which he said - and this is a family website so I'll refrain from the full, colourful language he used - that it was me who was an embarrassment to 'my' country and that my shirt was a "wasted effort". I quietly, though promptly told him where to go. I didn't shout.

Whitewall, I hope this satisfies your curiousity.

Meanwhile, speaking to others I know who noticed the BNP yesterday, some told me it these 'activists' were bused through to Glasgow (because no Glaswegian would be brave enough), and, that, it was the Highland's & Islands BNP co-coordinator and some underling that were doing the leafleting.

Anyway, my feelings on the BNP - for those who care to read them - is this:

People went toe-to-toe with Mosley's far right in Britain and got them off the streets. People went toe-to-toe with the brown shirts in Germany, but failed to get them off the streets. There may well come a time when this has to be done again. Simply walking past is not a moral victory and no guarantee that sense and dignity shall prevail, as stated above. Violence isn't my thing, but if the far right were gaining strength, they can't be allowed to dominate the streets and make folk frightened and uncomfortable. I doubt it will get to the stage where I have to take up cudgels, as the BNP have to tread a very fine line, with the cops and the state ready to pounce on them should they overstep the mark.

These British 'patriots', adorned with swastikas and views that Hitler would be proud of, are the shame of the nation. It is they who are an embarrassment to those who fought against Nazi Germany. Why anyone, like whitewall, would really want to play Devil's advocate, and imply that, because we live in a democracy, it's the BNP's right to express their views in public is beyond me. They should crawl back to the sewers from whence they came.

[_Ju_]

I
Anyway, my feelings on the BNP - for those who care to read them - is this:

People went toe-to-toe with Mosley's far right in Britain and got them off the streets. People went toe-to-toe with the brown shirts in Germany, but failed to get them off the streets. There may well come a time when this has to be done again. Simply walking past is not a moral victory and no guarantee that sense and dignity shall prevail, as stated above. Violence isn't my thing, but if the far right were gaining strength, they can't be allowed to dominate the streets and make folk frightened and uncomfortable. I doubt it will get to the stage where I have to take up cudgels, as the BNP have to tread a very fine line, with the cops and the state ready to pounce on them should they overstep the mark.



Exactly. Where your freedoms begin, those of another end. Freedom of speech does not mean you can defend any position in any situation.

[percy toboggan]

[quote=buddyrich;556060]
....It also says a lot about the intelligence level of people who would consider voting for such human trash as nick griffin....

quote]

Spoken with the haughty arrogance of a Nazi.....some might say.

Human Trash? Sentiments echoing across the decades from the liks of Buchenwald and Dachau.

It is strange the way the tolerant ones tolerate only what they approve of.

I have enough intelligence to write correctly and not accompany my posts with photographs of a chain smoking fat man.

Only a momentous day like this one, the latest in momentous times could tempt me back here long enough to pour scorn on those liberal egalitarians who now it seems are considering violence to suppress the rise of the British National Party. It will be a short lived rise. I guess they will capture a double figure percentage of todays vote in poor old disillusioned England.Across Europe of course the far right will better prosper, particularly in liberal, egalitarian Holland - I wonder what the Dutch are so steamed up about?

I was still making my mind up when I took a look at this thread. UKIP had swayed me away from a protest vote for the BNP but the input here may have changed my mind.

What an obnoxious bunch of intolerant tunnel thinkers.

[~~Tides~~]

It is strange the way the tolerant ones tolerate only what they approve of.

If one tolerates members from all walks of life, is open minded and kind hearted, sees the good in people, judges people not on the colour of their skin and their accent... But rejects the absolutly miniscule minority of people who are the diametric opposite...
..
I would hardly call that tunnel thinking.

[~~Tides~~]

Those MPs that "Played the system", are criminals. They should be arrested for fraud, as happens to those on the dole that "play the system".

Granted, but the point I was trying to make was, are they worse than the BNP, many of which have convictions for assault, intimidation and speading racial hatred? Nick Griffin himself was given a 2 year suspended sentance for inciting hatred under the Public Order Act 1998. Their London South East co-ordinator, Colin Smith, has 17 convictions including burglary, theft, stealing cars, possession of drugs and assaulting a police officer. My point is, that it is laughable that these people think that they can take any sort of moral high ground, against anyone.



Percy,

And all the people that are going to give a vote to the BNP, without thinking about the consequences for their neighbours, or not seeing through all the populist propoganda they are churning out,

Is that not tunnel thinking?

Or am I a tunnel thinker for trying my best to be open to other cultures and tolerant of all people (except the intolerant).

I wonder how many members of MENSA or how many professors of philosophy will vote for the BNP?

[pinotnoir]

Those of us who find the hatred and fear espoused by the BNP should be more vocal in our criticisms, in Nazi Germany the silent majority were complicit in the evil that unfolded.

[crayola]

I wonder how many members of MENSA or how many professors of philosophy will vote for the BNP?
Members of Mensa are a funny lot, they are like the Masons but they do IQ tests and other funny things instead of the funny things that Masons do. It wouldn't surprise me if Mensa members voted for the BNP.

Percy seems to think people who disagree with him are guilty of tunnel thinking. That dark thinking seems a remarkably one dimensional concept. Watch out for trains percy! :)

[crayola]

Oh good grief, little did I realise....

BNP Infiltrates Hi-IQ Society Mensa... (http://www.nowpublic.com/world/bnp-infiltrates-hi-iq-society-mensa-vocal-member-dr-william-pierce-adherent)

[~~Tides~~]

Oh well, little did I know either.

Point was: how many truly inteligent, forward thinking, open minded people, upon whom the lessons of history are not wasted, would be voting for the BNP?

Not many. Tunnel thinkers that they are.

[annthracks]

A rose by any other name... whatever happened to the National Front?

[buddyrich]

What does this sentance from your post mean?





I have enough intelligence the intelligence to write correctly and not accompany my posts with photographs of a chain smoking fat man.



It makes no grammatical sense. And you made your error when talking about intelligence.

Irony-come on in and give a round of applause to someone with the ridiculous name of percy toboggan!


Anyone who denies the holocaust and thinks rape "is a really good idea" should be classed as trash. I dont think i mentioned anything about spraying them with zyklon B or lining them up and shooting them.

I suppose the real answer to such groups is just indifference. Voting UKIP would definitely be the act of an extremist though!


Ho ho!

[Rheghead]

Those of us who find the hatred and fear espoused by the BNP should be more vocal in our criticisms, in Nazi Germany the silent majority were complicit in the evil that unfolded.

Unfortunately in the case of people like percy who has admitted that he has his social poles are reversed, if we say something is bad and terrible, he will exactly do it just out of bloody mindedness without fear of any consequences for his actions. So I don't know if it is best to ignore the BNP or slag them. But I do think they have a political momentum that is gathering pace. Sad but true. :~(

[Kenneth]

ahhhh BNP, I've read their policies, mostly the same as what other parties say, only with blind racism. What a load of crap.

Just ripped up the leaflet when it came through the door. :)

[Mister Squiggle]

I had a quick glance through mine, saw the weirdy looking family with the cult-like glimmer in their eyes on the front bit and popped it into my recycling pile - it will be shredded and added to the compost pile with all the chicken manure, kitchen scraps and grass clippings. So see, it's come in use after all.

[percy toboggan]

If one tolerates members from all walks of life, is open minded and kind hearted, sees the good in people, judges people not on the colour of their skin and their accent... But rejects the absolutly miniscule minority of people who are the diametric opposite...
..
I would hardly call that tunnel thinking.

One can be open minded, see the good in people, judge not on the colour of people's skin etc. etc. yet still be of the opinion that there are far too many immigrants in this country of mine (England) - enough in a short space of time to distort and depress the hitherto settled population - an element of which will idle their lives away content to let the incomers take the jobs which pay for their benefits.

Sadly, none of the mainstream parties currently seems to have sussed this out, leaving the way for the BNP to half-fill an alarming vacuum and offer the frustrated an outlet for their considered anger at being ignored for so long.

[percy toboggan]

I wonder how many members of MENSA or how many professors of philosophy will vote for the BNP?

As someone who would qualify for membership of MENSA I fail to see the relevance in your comments.

The organisation attracts those who think a lot of themselves and all the Professors of Philosophy in the country would not be missed if they were exported en masse.

You seem like a pleasant enough chap Tides - why would you attempt to pay homage to such a bunch of twerps in this way?

[crayola]

One can be open minded, see the good in people, judge not on the colour of people's skin etc. etc. yet still be of the opinion that there are far too many immigrants in this country of mine (England) - enough in a short space of time to distort and depress the hitherto settled population - an element of which will idle their lives away content to let the incomers take the jobs which pay for their benefits.

Sadly, none of the mainstream parties currently seems to have sussed this out, leaving the way for the BNP to half-fill an alarming vacuum and offer the frustrated an outlet for their considered anger at being ignored for so long.Percy are you aware how much the rules governing the employment non-EU citizens have been tightened recently? It's a sea change of the like you might be proud of.

[~~Tides~~]

Fair enough, but I've clarified my point already.


Point was: how many truly inteligent, forward thinking, open minded people, upon whom the lessons of history are not wasted, would be voting for the BNP?

Not many. Tunnel thinkers that they are.

[Alice in Blunderland]

I have checked out the BNP website and had a good read of some of their policies.

In principle one or two of the things they are saying do make you think yes thats whats needed ...........however I found it utterly stomach churning that in this day I found reference to the colour of peoples skin amongst their policies and statements.

How on earth can this be a forward thinking party when there are undertones of racism. :confused


I would not now or ever in the future even consider voting for this party, not even as a token protest. I will read their material just to remind me how dangerous it would be for some should they, God forbid ever get anywhere in Politics.

I am glad to live in a country where most people live freely, speak freely and have respect for one another no matter where they come from or what colour they may be. :)

[percy toboggan]

ahhhh BNP, I've read their policies, mostly the same as what other parties say, only with blind racism. What a load of crap.

Just ripped up the leaflet when it came through the door. :)

Such is the overwhelming sense of delicate fragility which always seems to form in my mind when I read your posts I'm surprised you had the strength.

Ken?

[bekisman]

Mister Squiggle, have no fear, the photos on the BNP leaflet are all false:

An elderly couple pictured on BNP election leaflets endorsing the party's anti-immigration views are actually Italian models, it can be disclosed.
But far from depicting proud BNP supporters, the images are actually stock photos from online picture libraries that have been used by dozens of websites to promote everything from painkillers to caravans

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/local-elections/5331700/British-pensioners-on-BNP-election-leaflet-are-actually-Italian-models.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/local-elections/5331700/British-pensioners-on-BNP-election-leaflet-are-actually-Italian-models.html)

[percy toboggan]

Well, the deed is done. Call it bloody mindedness, call it a legitimate protest.
Personally, I call it democracy.

Call it folly - it may well prove to be so. I don't want the BNP to win many seats, but one would do. It might just put the wind up the Tories enough to stop them taking the working classes for granted when they form the next Government.

Let's face it, the Labour Party is well and truly sunk - holed beneath the waterline. All their claims to be the party of people like me - who earn around 20k and live in areas similar to where my Mum and Dad lived before us, where some of our kids live now - are blown out of the water when we see how disastrous immigration, education and law and order policies have created a hugely disillusioned swathe of the populace feeling alienated and demeaned.

A large rump of semi-literate working class whites whose children struggle at schools which fail their needs, and failed their parents needs (Tory & Labour to blame) - a rump which serves no real purpose now that death intensive wars seem to be a thing of the past.

Ordinary people have been treated with utter contmept by politicians for far too long. The worm is turning and I hope it does a 180 tonight...bring on the Independents, The English Democrats, UKIP, The BNP and all the fringe nutters who are untried but untainted.
Democracy in action. A concept which seems unpopular to the majority who have contributed to this thread, and the minority who have shrunk from saying what they really think for fear of castigation.

Nowt to worry about - trust me.

[TBH]

As someone who would qualify for membership of MENSA I fail to see the relevance in your comments.

The organisation attracts those who think a lot of themselves and all the Professors of Philosophy in the country would not be missed if they were exported en masse.

You seem like a pleasant enough chap Tides - why would you attempt to pay homage to such a bunch of twerps in this way?Are ye tryin' til say ye hev a beeg IQ, Percy?

[percy toboggan]

Are ye tryin' til say ye hev a beeg IQ, Percy?

No bigger than the next mans, perhaps a little more finely honed - it's all that time sat on me backside thinking - beats working.

Actually various tests differ wildly - they once sent me something I returned and they offered membership. It required a cheque and I don't know any.

[TBH]

No bigger than the next mans, perhaps a little more finely honed - it's all that time sat on me backside thinking - beats working.

Actually various tests differ wildly - they once sent me something I returned and they offered membership. It required a cheque and I don't know any.
Your IQ could be anything from 100 to 150 depending on how much money you are willing to part with.:D

[~~Tides~~]

...and the minority who have shrunk from saying what they really think for fear of castigation.

This is an argumemnt that I hear a lot from supporters of horrible fringe parties. The assumption that everyone else secretly thinks the same way. Its just wrong, if it was true then the BNP would currently have more than ZERO seats in the parliament. I think its just a way of them justifying it to themselves or something, making them feel less guilty or something?

[Kenneth]

Such is the overwhelming sense of delicate fragility which always seems to form in my mind when I read your posts I'm surprised you had the strength.

Ken?


Thats my name dont wear it out. Call me a great big weak, tree-hugging, lute playing leftie but quite frankly, the BNP are ridiculous. Ok fair enough tighter immigration, but whats all this about:

"and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question."

Madness!!!! Im not going to pay for some Jamaicans to be moved about, or some Indians to be relocated. It would be quite sad to see my Turkish dentist leave.

Also the BNP don't support Foreign Aid, and I don't agree with that either. Im fortunate enough to live in a decent country where the worst things the politicians do is spend £30 on a toilet seat. Other countries, people arent so fortunate, and have terrible lives blighted by corruption on a ridiculous level, poverty, disease etc etc and thats a horrible way to live. So with that few extra pounds I quite happily give to Oxfam. So I dont agree with the BNP not supporting Foriegn Aid.

Britain is fine country, immigration isnt that massive a problem, maybe down south, but i dont live there, and their certainly isnt a immigration problem up here (although im led to beleive there was a raid on one of the Indian restaurnts a few days ago) and so the BNP really dont seem that attractive an option. :)

[Bazeye]

Britain is fine country, immigration isnt that massive a problem, maybe down south, but i dont live there, and their certainly isnt a immigration problem up here

That seems to be most peoples thoughts on immigration ie. Its not a problem where I live so why should I care? Its partly due to the geographic location of Thurso that it isnt a problem. When/If it becomes a problem in Thurso, it will be too late to do anything about it.
The UK is often described as a "mongrel" nation which it is, but its taken centuries, of relatively small numbers, settling here in dribs and drabs, thus having time, and the chance to assimilate. The simple fact is that now there are far too many immigrants entering the UK far too quickly.
Ive worked all over England and I can honestly say you would not like your town to become like some of the towns Ive been to. IMO.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

The BNP have won a seat on Leciestershire County Council. Oh dear.

[percy toboggan]

The BNP have won a seat on Leciestershire County Council. Oh dear.

Have you got it wrong or is that two now?
They have won one on LANCASHIRE County Coucil - Padiham, near Burnley...a place I know fairly well. Kenneth would not like it I think.

Bazeye: good common sense post...Kenneth sounds a bit 'I'm allright Jack' to me too. 'Relocating Jamaicans' indeed - shall we start with the drug mules who are in clink ? - a berth on a returning banana boat will be cheaper than a week inside Holloway or Belmarsh.

Did any of my detractors notice I was spot on about the Netherlands and their European elections?

[Haweswater]

BNP - Despite the suits, collars and ties, the 'patriotic' spin and flag waving, they remain the neo-Nazis that they have always been. A significant number (perhaps even the majority) privately deny the evil that was the Shoah - or at the very least contend that the numbers murdered were nothing like the true figure.
Perhaps they should try speaking to the veterans of the US and British armies that liberated the death camps and learn for themselves just what their role models committed in the pursuit of so-called racial purity.
Of course, they'd claim that what they were being told is just one big damned lie...a bit like the growing number of German (especially eastern German) youths who similarly believe this to be a lie.
The trouble is that as time passes and the Holocaust survivors and the Allied veterans die, so too can their testimonies, leaving them consigned to pages of history books.
And we all know what can happen to books in the wrong hands....
The world must not be allowed to forget past injustices against humanity.
It's heart-breaking to see in print and listen to ordinary Britons voicing their dislike, their suspicions and often downright contempt towards immigrants or indeed anything / anybody else that/who does not sit comfortably in their narrow, pitifully small and bitter minds. Racial purity is a joke, but tragically not a funny one at that.
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it". (George Santayana)

[crayola]

The BNP have won a seat on Leciestershire County Council. Oh dear.
That doesn't surprise me. Leicester has a large population of ethnic Asians and there are bound to be pockets of unsympathetic white working class resistance as exemplified by the usuals on this forum.

[percy toboggan]

It's not holocaust 'denial' that troubles me, although I do find it an irritating and revealing trait...nobody within my earshot has ever denied the holocaust but then I've led a sheltered life...and they might realise they'd get short shrift.

That chapter of history is done and dusted and rightly remembered.It's hard to see how the World at large could forget the industrial scale slaughte rof five or six million people - unless it wants to. After all, we surely realise don't we that a huge proportion of the people on the globe today probably know nothing of the 'holocaust'

What people who do know make of it is entirely up to them. I'd hope humanity can learn lessons from it. People who say it 'never happened' are clearly mentally deficient...those who argue over the numbers and dispute 'odd million or two dead' are pedants. However, memories of the 'holocaust' cannot overshadow a nations desire to hang on to some form of identity.

To associate the average BNP voter - approximately ten per cent of the electorate if my instincts are correct - with holocaust 'denial' is clearly a nonsense.

I use a similar quote to Mr.Santayana..."a nation which turns it's back on its history has no future" is the toboggan version.

When I was a younger man, Britain was known as a slightly repressed, all calm on the surface rather polite place to live. Much of the muck was undoubtedly swept under the carpet. I can live with that. By and large Britain was at ease with itself. Dissenting voices concerned themselves with the class war, or the Atom Bomb.

All of this added to an interesting tapestry - a backdrop to my life of modest ambition, and modest lifestyle. A happy - ish place. A secure place. Not much suspicion on the streets People happy to show their faces which were not always smiling of course.
As long as places like Leicester, and their 'pockets' lacking 'sympathy' are allowed to fester and change beyond recognition - remember, to cope with current immigration trends we need a new city the size of Leicester every few years- then the aforementioned security and sense of 'ease' is not coming back...in fact I should probably face it...it's gone for good.

Unlike the majority I will not concern myself with television soap operas,talent contests, immerse myself in alcohol or drugs to escape this sad fact...rather I shall comment now and again and challenge the usual suspects in places like this one who do not know their arses from their elbows. I have to report that practically everyone I know resents mass immigration on the post millennium scale....a majority will also vocalise support for far right parties. Compared to most of the people around me I am a moderate...a voice of reason

'Narrow, bitter minds' blimey! you don't sound bitter at all Mr. Haweswater...clearly the perfect example of understanding and tolerance you are---so long as we all agree with you. I can assure you this is far from the case. Suits and ties might figure in your judgements, I never had much time for people in suits and ties - or Uniforms come to that...my default reaction would be 'distrust' .

I find myself wondering where you live...and how your neighborhood has changed. Geographical instinct and name checking has you sat in some rural idyll...but I could be wrong. I'm wrong about a few things, which is more than most on here will ever admit to.

[Rheghead]

It's not holocaust 'denial' that troubles me, although I do find it an irritating and revealing trait..

You must be against Arab ideology then?


Holocaust denial in Arab nations
Denials of the Holocaust have been regularly promoted by various Arab leaders and in various media throughout the Middle East.[70] Newspapers funded by the Saudi Arabian government routinely deny the existence of the Holocaust, or downplay its significance.[71] Individuals from the Syrian government, as well as the Palestinian political group Hamas have recently published Holocaust denial statements.[72]

In August 2002, the Zayed Center for Coordination and Follow-up, an Arab League think-tank whose Chairman, Sultan Bin Zayed Al Nahayan, served as Deputy Prime Minister of the United Arab Emirates, promoted a Holocaust denial symposium in Abu Dhabi.[73] Hamas leaders have also promoted Holocaust denial; Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi held that the Holocaust never occurred, that Zionists were behind the action of Nazis, and that Zionists funded Nazism.[74] A press release by Hamas in April 2000 decried "the so-called Holocaust, which is an alleged and invented story with no basis."[75]

Holocaust denial has also been resisted by prominent intellectual figures in the Arab world; in 2001, an outcry led by Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish, Lebanese writer Elias Khoury and others brought about the cancellation of a conference the Holocaust denial organization Institute for Historical Review had planned to hold in Beirut.[76]

In 2005 the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood leader, Mohammed Mahdi Akef, denounced what he called "the myth of the Holocaust" in defending Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's denial of the Holocaust.[77]

According to the Associated Press, "Ignorance and even denial of the Holocaust is widespread in Palestinian society."[78]

According to Aziz Abu Sarah, published in Haaretz, "...growing up I did not know much about the Holocaust. As Palestinians, we simply did not learn about it. There was a stigma attached to it, an understanding that Israel would use the Holocaust to lobby for sympathy, then turn and use the sympathy as a terrible weapon against the Palestinian people."[79]

[Kenneth]

Have you got it wrong or is that two now?
They have won one on LANCASHIRE County Coucil - Padiham, near Burnley...a place I know fairly well. Kenneth would not like it I think.

Bazeye: good common sense post...Kenneth sounds a bit 'I'm allright Jack' to me too. 'Relocating Jamaicans' indeed - shall we start with the drug mules who are in clink ? - a berth on a returning banana boat will be cheaper than a week inside Holloway or Belmarsh.

Did any of my detractors notice I was spot on about the Netherlands and their European elections?


Thats a bit stereotypical Percy, it sounds like you have something against foreigners here. What do you think of, say, my Turkish, intelligent, well spoken Dentist in Edinburgh? The one I had to be referred to because there were NONE up here (withot having to wait two years to be put on a waiting list!) I was treated by a German doctor for breaking my metatarsal. Should these people be relocated? Im not saying all immigrants are good intelligent wonderful people, but the ones that are skilled, especially in jobs that are important, would still be up for relocation by the BNP.

Bazeye, you are probably right, down South im sure immigration is a problem. Im not going to pretend I know all about it, as I clearly dont and I dont think anyone here really truly does...but in Caithness, where these leaflets were posted, the BNP really dont have much of a say. And I think if they are voted into power, I think they would create more problems than solve.

[~~Tides~~]

To associate the average BNP voter - approximately ten per cent of the electorate if my instincts are correct - with holocaust 'denial' is clearly a nonsense.

These people associate themselves with holocaust denial by voting for people who deny the holocaust! That is a pretty simple concept.




'Narrow, bitter minds' blimey! you don't sound bitter at all Mr. Haweswater...clearly the perfect example of understanding and tolerance you are---so long as we all agree with you.

This is just the same silly argument that if you don't agree with (or even understand) someone that clearly has a fairly narrow mind (see above holocaust denial) that you yourself must have a narrow mind! That just doesn't make sense.

[Gene Hunt]

Here's a stunning concept for those who disagree with the BNP. Ignore them. They are a minority party with extreme views and if you dont like them then just take no heed. To quote Percy's avatar .. "Keep Calm and Carry On" .. ;)

I personally dont agree with them. That just might have something to do with the fact my wife is black and my kids mixed race but you dont see me gettting all upset about them, and I have more cause than most. As much as I dislike them and their policies we live in a free country, that means that as much as you find them, their views, statements and policies abhorrent they have a right to a voice. Like everyone else. Just because I dont like what they say does not mean they should not have the same freedom of speech that other parties have. If you personally arent mature enough to disregard that which you find repulsive then that's your problem in my view. People who fail to see the irony when they stand and shout that others have no right to opinions they dont like should pause and ask themselves .. just who are the real fascists ??

Perhaps if this country didnt have its head up its backside and treated other extreme groups whose members arent white with the same disdain as the BNP they would not be able to build on the growing discontent fuelled by the PC Ethnic Luvvie Brigade and a Goverment that seems to see anyone who is white, male and heterosexual as a lower class of life. Because the very people showing support for the BNP are, in the main, of that that colour, gender and sexuality.

[percy toboggan]

Here's a stunning concept for those who disagree with the BNP. Ignore them. They are a minority party with extreme views and if you dont like them then just take no heed. To quote Percy's avatar .. "Keep Calm and Carry On" .. ;)

I personally dont agree with them. That just might have something to do with the fact my wife is black and my kids mixed race but you dont see me gettting all upset about them, and I have more cause than most. As much as I dislike them and their policies we live in a free country, that means that as much as you find them, their views, statements and policies abhorrent they have a right to a voice. Like everyone else. Just because I dont like what they say does not mean they should not have the same freedom of speech that other parties have. If you personally arent mature enough to disregard that which you find repulsive then that's your problem in my view. People who fail to see the irony when they stand and shout that others have no right to opinions they dont like should pause and ask themselves .. just who are the real fascists ??

Perhaps if this country didnt have its head up its backside and treated other extreme groups whose members arent white with the same disdain as the BNP they would not be able to build on the growing discontent fuelled by the PC Ethnic Luvvie Brigade and a Goverment that seems to see anyone who is white, male and heterosexual as a lower class of life. Because the very people showing support for the BNP are, in the main, of that that colour, gender and sexuality.

I am far from Gene Hunt's No.1 fan but here he speaks with common sense and rationality - from a standpoint which might justify raw emotion.
Bravo!

[Rheghead]

I think I know what the big news story is gonna be for the next 24 hours.

[hotrod4]

Nick Griffin is in!!!!
The worst of it is the labour candidate stated "We have to stop these parties getting elected".
Simple really do what the people want and they Labour might actually get somewhere.
The people voted for the BNP and they got them, good on them I say-Democracy prevails.
It may be the kick up the posterior that most of the "main" parties need.

[percy toboggan]

Having stayed up until one am. for the laggardly process to start revealing results and trends I felt utterly vindicated upon rising at six am. to hear of a shift to the right all over Europe.

I am not a right winger by nature - neither are most of those who deserted Labour and plumped for the ultimate protest vote - the BNP.

However 'the right' is the only way to turn if one does not want to be overwhelmed by a rising tide of humanity escaping the travails of the African Continent and parts of Asia for a better life in Britain.

I do not blame these people. I blame successive administrations full of idiots who have failed to see the dangers and bolt the doors firmly shut.

Furthermore...to assume that membership of the EU means we have to live cheek by jowel with folks who'll happily work for three quid an hour less than 'we' will stinks to the heavens.

When old neighborhoods- far from the leafy lanes of politician's suburbia - are transformed with alien cultures, and elderly people feel isolated and bewildered by the pace of change then such results as we saw last night are inevitable....and they will keep on happening.

16% in Barnsley ! 15% in Wakefield ! 9% in BRADFORD for goodness sakes!!
and a BNP M.E.P. called Bronze !

If he and Griffin raise the profile of the party with responsible representation - if they get busy - and if they devote at least half of their salary to the causes they espouse then others will sit up and take notice. If they do not then they deserve to be condemned to hell as the latest betrayers of Joe & Joanne Public. The ordinary people (like me, possibly you)who have been treated with utter contempt for decades.

This is no new dawn - but it might be the last chance of a wake up call for those who have the arrogance to assume they have a right to Govern.

[crayola]

I think the BNP did well in the Euro elections because of their advertising campaign at the French Open. :)

http://ipreferparis.typepad.com/i_prefer_paris/images/0015_1.jpg

Is Nick Griffin a closet francophile? ;)

[Humerous Vegetable]

This is another shameful day in English politics. Native Scots will be relieved that the BNP share of the vote up here was "only" 2.5%....probably supplied by English incomers?

[tonkatojo]

This is another shameful day in English politics. Native Scots will be relieved that the BNP share of the vote up here was "only" 2.5%....probably supplied by English incomers?


NOW NOW, don't talk rubbish, why must it be English incomers that gave the 2.5%, your handle seem's half appropriate. Humerous as in funny but the vegetable side does your thinking.

[Bazeye]

This is another shameful day in English politics. Native Scots will be relieved that the BNP share of the vote up here was "only" 2.5%....probably supplied by English incomers?

Thats bordering on racism. Remind me again, who are supposed to be the nazis?

[The Pepsi Challenge]

The people who voted for the BNP have condoned racism and hatred; every single one of them should hang their heads in shame this morning. Knuckle-draggers.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

I can assure everyone the BNP have not changed. Watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfwdNAT8sWU&feature=channel_page

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Cartoon from today's Edinburgh Evening News.

[Bazeye]

The people who voted for the BNP have condoned racism and hatred; every single one of them should hang their heads in shame this morning. Knuckle-draggers.

Why should the people who voted for them hang their heads in shame?

The people who should hang their heads in shame are the ones who dont agree with their policies and who couldnt be bothered voting.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Why should the people who voted for them hang their heads in shame?

The people who should hang their heads in shame are the ones who dont agree with their policies and who couldnt be bothered voting.

Dear oh dear oh dear.

[Bazeye]

Dear oh dear oh dear.

Its called Democracy, people can vote for who they want and not for who you think they should vote for. Btw I take it, by your condescending reply, youre assuming I voted for them.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

No; I didn't assume you voted for the BNP.

[bekisman]

Humorous Vegetable: This is another shameful day in English politics. Native Scots will be relieved that the BNP share of the vote up here was "only" 2.5%....probably supplied by English incomers?

Eh? cheeky git 'Supplied by English incomers' how do you work that out? I did not vote BNP

[percy toboggan]

This is another shameful day in English politics. Native Scots will be relieved that the BNP share of the vote up here was "only" 2.5%....probably supplied by English incomers?

They might also reflect that the BNP and the SNP share the same number of M.E.P's - Two each. I personally find this a nonsense - as a nation governing party the Scottish Nationalists deserve more.

Two years ago I suggested to the BNP leadership that they become the 'English National Party' - they ignored me at their peril. :lol: - such a move would have appealed to the fed-up anglos.

[percy toboggan]

The people who voted for the BNP have condoned racism and hatred; every single one of them should hang their heads in shame this morning. Knuckle-draggers.

Uninformed tripe and sixth form standard input.
My head is held high and I'm smelling the roses.

When asked how black people should react to the BNP success Nick Griffin said' they should 'Keep Calm and Carry On' ...
Yes, he hijacked my avatar and G Hunts earlier sentiments.

You will notice a dilution of racist rhetoric - which will only be stepped up if they achieve a postion of true power. As this is most unlikely to happen , even in your lifetime I'd say you can turn off the vitriol.

Keep drinking your sixth form drink and if you ever rise to the challenge of inputting some truly coherent grown up comments I'll be the first to congratulate you.

[maverick]

Well peoples it seems that we have unlocked Pandora's Box, and once opened the question is will we ever be able to close it again. The BNP have gained 2 seats in Europe, should we be afraid? Yes be very afraid.... Who is to blame for this ? The Government . Yes the Government are to blame for the BNP success, the Government who would not listen to it's people, the Government who's policies have forced the electorate to make and take drastic actions. On the outside the BNP's policies look brilliant, British jobs for British workers, lets stop NHS abuse, and put pensioners before assylum seakers, an end to social security abuse and an end to rip off Britian. These are all things that successive Governments should have addressed, these subjects have been discussed in local pubs and in the work place for years, and who was there listening in? Yes the dreaded BNP and where were our Honourable MP's ? ? ? they had their noses in the trough lining their pockets. As soon as the expences scandal broke, up pop the BNP with the " I told you so", and now here we are unpresidented support for the British Nazi Party, a party which festers in the British Psyche like a cancer, an insult to the acheivement of those who fought in world war 2 to protect our democratic freedoms from the facists who would have trod them under their jack boots. Are we a racist country? well yes we are and by the very fact that the BNP have representitives in Europe proves that we as a country support facism and racism by allowing these people to be elected. And before you all get high and mighty on me about Democracy. Let me TELL YOU ALL Facists have no respect for Democracy. Democracy is a tool used by facists to achieve it's evil ends. We need to STAND AS ONE VOICE and tell the Nazi's THERE IS NO PLACE FOR THE LIKE OF YOU IN OUR COUNTRY.........................

[TBH]

I can assure everyone the BNP have not changed. Watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfwdNAT8sWU&feature=channel_pageHow exactly does that video condemn the BNP, so much so that you can assure people that they haven't changed? Throw in some pics of random people in white robes, burning a cross, that seals it then.[lol]

[~~Tides~~]

The people who should hang their heads in shame are the ones who dont agree with their policies...

Please explain why people who don't support white supremacy or fascist ideas, who don't deny the holocaust, who can see the lessons of history... why these people should hang their heads? Please tell me in a simple straight forward answer.

Thank you.





Today I feel sick to be British. Members of my family died fighting fascism.

[NapalmDeath74]

I would rather vote for the Raving loony Party than BNP, some of the BNP policies are very scary indeed.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Uninformed tripe and sixth form standard input.
My head is held high and I'm smelling the roses.

When asked how black people should react to the BNP success Nick Griffin said' they should 'Keep Calm and Carry On' ...
Yes, he hijacked my avatar and G Hunts earlier sentiments.

You will notice a dilution of racist rhetoric - which will only be stepped up if they achieve a postion of true power. As this is most unlikely to happen , even in your lifetime I'd say you can turn off the vitriol.

Keep drinking your sixth form drink and if you ever rise to the challenge of inputting some truly coherent grown up comments I'll be the first to congratulate you.

Chastised by the org's moral guardian, I suppose I ought to apologise for drinking from my sixth form glass of pimms and lemonade, but I won't. The fact remains: 6.2% of the British population voted for the BNP; that's 943,598 people. Chances are we know someone who voted (for them).

Bottoms up, old boy.

[Aaldtimer]

Actually less people voted for the BNP than at the last Euro elections.
It's only because of the low turn out that they got a higher percentage of the vote that they won the 2 seats.
"For evil to prevail all it takes is for good men to do nothing"...or words to that effect! :(

[hotrod4]

. Democracy is a tool used by facists to achieve it's evil ends. We need to STAND AS ONE VOICE and tell the Nazi's THERE IS NO PLACE FOR THE LIKE OF YOU IN OUR COUNTRY.........................
Isnt your comment a type of the fascism that you seem to despise?
Telling people that there is (your words)"No place for the like of you in this country". Isnt that the same as the BNP's immigration policy?
So if someone votes BNP they have to leave the country?
Or is it only "Fascist" if they disagree with your "superior" views?

[hotrod4]

The people who voted for the BNP have condoned racism and hatred; every single one of them should hang their heads in shame this morning. Knuckle-draggers.
I seem to have abrasions on my hands this morning, can you explain to me how that happened?;)

[The Pepsi Challenge]

I seem to have abrasions on my hands this morning, can you explain to me how that happened?;)

Quite easily.

[percy toboggan]

Sixteen per cent of those who voted in Barnsley are Nazi sympathisers? By Gum!

Aye...that'll be reet.

Do we describe any party which see a total ban on immigration as 'fascist' ?

Personally I might write to cajole the BNP leadership to allow membership for blacks , browns and yellow people if their parent/s were born in the UK. This would be a positive step.
In time membership could become aspirational.
I'd possibly be peeing against the wind but it's my default position so often it seems.

I have heard several black and brown people voice support for the immigration ban, and for the BNP's policies , in places like Dagenham.

As a settled section of our community they also feel undermined by unfettered arrivals of the world and his wives. The party could do itself a lot of good by adopting this rule change which might help it allay the usual knee jerk 'Nazi' comments.

They also need to rid themselves of the more exuberant in their ranks... nutcases who have let themselves down with crass stupidity and overt racism. Only then will they march further forward in an electoral sense. A period of some enlightenment perhaps now they are feeling flushed with new wealth.
DID YOU SEE WHAT AN M.E.P. ACTUALLY COSTS ?

Keep Calm and Carry on indeed. If progress for the BNP is still so slow - even at this time of turmoil, great upheaval and when politicians stand disgraced there is very little for all you anti-nazi league people to worry about.

[~~Tides~~]

They also need to rid themselves of the more exuberant in their ranks... nutcases who have let themselves down with crass stupidity and overt racism.

You mean like Nick Griffin? With his conviction for inciting racial hatred, and his statements that denying the holocaust to school children should be a BNP priority.

[~~Tides~~]

Do we describe any party which see a total ban on immigration as 'fascist'?

Not per se, but we do call a party that is full of dangerous fascists 'fascist'! Why is this so difficult for you to grasp?

[Alien Adrenaline Reflex]

its the likes of this thead and trhe gain by the bnp that would make me reconsider my position on voting as stated in an earlier discussion on the european elections. i think its a bit frightening that i would have to go and vote for "the best of a bad bunch" as i think i put it just to make sure that these evil hate mongerers do not win any kind of power. I just wish that the other political partys would make it easier and put up some decent candidates. I can just see the leaflets we'll get next time round, "we may not be great but we're not the bnp". not exactly inspiring.

[Rheghead]

Do we describe any party which see a total ban on immigration as 'fascist' ?

The Conservative party campaigned heavily on the anti-immigration ticket at the 2005 election.

[pinotnoir]

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/

If you are disturbed by their "breakthrough" please sign.

[percy toboggan]

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/

If you are disturbed by their "breakthrough" please sign.

Given the post immediately above your own call to pens - do you mean the Conservatives?:confused :mad:

They did do rather well, particularly in Wales!

Tides: The term 'fascist' is done to death. It's largely anachronistic as many might describe our current Government as 'fascist'
The dividing line between extreme left and extreme right is blurred at best - it manifests in misery for most, and ecstacy for few.

[percy toboggan]

You mean like Nick Griffin? With his conviction for inciting racial hatred, and his statements that denying the holocaust to school children should be a BNP priority.

Perhaps.
With a more charismatic leader the BNP could make greater inroads.
Griffin is not top drawer material and is weighed down by some of his loonier past pronouncements.

As one who does not want to see the strife a large BNP presence might bring, I'm happy to stick with him though. He is good value, and it's excellent that he can sometimes vocalise the frustrations of so many.

People you would not - could not understand. Tides ebb and flow, but your own inability to adapt or in any way accept the counter view relegates you to Canute status 'ere Tides. You are stuck in your own groove with barely a scintilla of humour, original thought or elegance about your input.

[Kenneth]

Percy, just wondering as you didnt reply to an earlier post, what do you think of the BNP's policy of relocating those who weren't born in Britain? For example, I think deportation of criminal immigrants is fine. But what about those who are skilled, and important to society, such as Nurses/Doctors/Dentists/Teachers etc?

[percy toboggan]

Percy, just wondering as you didnt reply to an earlier post, what do you think of the BNP's policy of relocating those who weren't born in Britain? For example, I think deportation of criminal immigrants is fine. But what about those who are skilled, and important to society, such as Nurses/Doctors/Dentists/Teachers etc?

Happy to answer you Kenneth old cock.
(my father was a Ken, ken and I have a fondness for the name)
We are so selfish here sometimes.

Over ten years we need to see what difficulties are caused in under-developed countries by the exodus of medically qualified staff looking for more money in developed Europe.

These people are valuable commodities in any language and currency so it's important we do not suck up all the assets.

Their value , though currently indispensable could be put into perspective by better educating and motivating our own people to strive for professional qualifications...over a deacde and more.

BNP relocation (if it ever came about) is voluntary Kenneth. Incentivised by cash of course. Were I medically qualified I am sufficiently patriotic to ensure I helped my own countrymen first - before thoughts of lining my pockets elsewhere.

I'm not keen on NHS trained Nurses beggaring off to California or Queensland before the ink is dry on their diplomas (and degrees:roll:) and would much rather they hung around long enough to repay the cost of their own societies commitment.
Perhaps an enforced five years of duty at home might reduce the need to import foreign medical staff - who often are hard to understand (personal experience of this).

[Alice in Blunderland]

Happy to answer you Kenneth old cock.
(my father was a Ken, ken and I have a fondness for the name)
We are so selfish here sometimes.

Over ten years we need to see what difficulties are caused in under-developed countries by the exodus of medically qualified staff looking for more money in developed Europe.
These people are valuable commodities in any language and currency so it's important we do not suck up all the assets.

There is and has been for sometime an exodus of well qualified staff heading to Europe to seek employment . However in many of the countries which are losing these proffesionals there are many more coming along to fill their shoes. In third world countries the percentaage of Doctors compared to in our country is far greater. Many of these proffesionals come to Britain ,fill a gap which is here, train further to our standards then bring that knowledge back to their own country thus enriching their services back home whilst helping us out with our shortage of staff . Whilst in employment here they pay a good deal of tax into the system which they are not going to claim back in the future.




Their value , though currently indispensable could be put into perspective by better educating and motivating our own people to strive for professional qualifications...over a deacde and more.

Unfortunately Percy you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink is the saying which springs to mind. There are already many people within this country who are more than capable of training to do these jobs but have no motivation or desire to push themselves to achieve greater results.
How do you motivate people who just dont seem to want to be motivated. In ten years, twenty years or a lifetime if they dont want to do it then they wont.


BNP relocation (if it ever came about) is voluntary Kenneth. Incentivised by cash of course. Were I medically qualified I am sufficiently patriotic to ensure I helped my own countrymen first - before thoughts of lining my pockets elsewhere.


In monetary terms many of the doctors coming to this country are in fact earning less. Private sector in third world countries is so lucrative and well paid you would not believe how much money changes hands for treatment. Many of these proffesionals take many years of trying and expense before they make it to this country.

The cost of living in third world countries is far far cheaper than Britain.
Its not just money that brings them to Britain its a lifestyle an open society, respect for human life and freedom of speech.

Not everyone will want to be relocated and offering a bribe to make them go isnt the answer. This policy I fear would be the tip of the iceberg and could possibly open the doors for forced repatriation should not enough volunteers step up.


I'm not keen on NHS trained Nurses beggaring off to California or Queensland before the ink is dry on their diplomas (and degrees:roll:) and would much rather they hung around long enough to repay the cost of their own societies commitment.
Perhaps an enforced five years of duty at home might reduce the need to import foreign medical staff - who often are hard to understand (personal experience of this).

For the five years or so during training the nurses have worked many hours in the hospital for a trainees wage and I would say have worked hard already for their diploma. Not all of them then run off to other countries and why put something in place which may in fact deter nurses from entering into the training if they are going to be forced to stay on after training for a set time.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Even eggs dislike the BNP.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm

[percy toboggan]

Good points well made Alice but I hardly think a 5 year commitment would put someone off nursing. If it does then they ain't the right stuff.

A few graduates already aren't - too many have an eye to the wage packet..and the career ladder. Nurisng used to be a vocation...too few still see it that way.

As for motivating people - penalise indolence and incentivise endeavour. I've always worked fairly hard and conscientuously for a modest pay-packet. It should not be beyond the wit of a firm Government to get others to do the same. Dangle carrots.

[percy toboggan]

Even eggs dislike the BNP.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm

Then you are in good company.
Intellectually about as effective as an egg you can only serve to highlight the intolerance you claim to despise.

I personally hope they were British and free range.
Any brown ones?

Maybe he managed to catch one and take it home for breakfast.
Thereby having the last laugh.

Do you have any concept of 'I disagree with what you say but would defend to the death your right to say it'?

Probably not - you're not the brightest egg in the basket.

[bettedaviseyes]

BNP leader pelted with eggs by protesters


http://www.aolcdn.com/aoluk_articles/0c/01/20090609104609990001.4a2e793c-0000a-0534c-cdbc8767 BNP leader Nick Griffin is bundled away by his security guards outside the Houses of Parliament








BNP leader Nick Griffin was forced to abandon a press conference outside the Houses of Parliament after protesters barracked him, threw eggs and chased him down the street.
The demonstrators - chanting anti-Nazi slogans - chased Griffin and his security guards to his nearby car.
Mr Griffin, who was this week elected an MEP for the North West of England, was guided to his vehicle by his bodyguards and quickly drove off.
Mr Griffin arrived for the press conference on College Green in front of Parliament with fellow newly elected BNP MEP Andrew Brons just after 2.30pm. Mr Griffin started by condemning articles from Tuesday's newspapers which criticised him and his party.
He had only been speaking for a few minutes when the protesters appeared, chanting and waving banners declaring: "Stop the fascist BNP."
Griffin said the BNP is not racist and claimed that it won votes because it "spoke openly about the problem of immigration".
Eggs were thrown at Mr Griffin and his tough-looking bodyguards bundled him away through the crowd. The demonstrators kicked and hit his car with their placards before cheering as he drove off. Protest organiser Weyman Bennett, national secretary of Unite Against Fascism, said: "The majority of people did not vote for the BNP, they did not vote at all. The BNP was able to dupe them into saying that they had an answer to people's problems. "They presented themselves as a mainstream party. The reality was because the turnout was so low, they actually got elected."

[percy toboggan]

Such behaviour is on a par with those louts in Luton who were demonstrating against the Anglian Regiment's homecoming parade.

If they don't like the way we go about things - emigrate.

One man's vote carries as much weight as any others. Womens too (I hear) ;-)

[Gene Hunt]

The People who threw eggs at Nick Griffin and fuelled the publicity for these racist idiots managed to get him a five minute interview on BBC News 24.

Nice one Morons .. [disgust]

The only way to counter people like Nick Griffin is to debate with him and destroy his arguments. Making him look the victim, such as today, only allows him to get publicity that allows him to peddle his twisted views. Jumping up and down because his party won two seats in Europe and acting like he is the next Hitler only plays into his hands by allowing him publicity.

Everyones acting like he is going to be the next PM for pete's sake. Him and his ilk are a spineless bunch of cowards. I speak from experience having encountered a BNP member a few years ago who made certain racist comments about my daughter, probably not realising the white guy standing next to her was her dad. Despite numerous invitations he declined to repeat it, whether there or in a quiet spot of his choosing.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Then you are in good company.
Intellectually about as effective as an egg you can only serve to highlight the intolerance you claim to despise.

I personally hope they were British and free range.
Any brown ones?

Maybe he managed to catch one and take it home for breakfast.
Thereby having the last laugh.

Do you have any concept of 'I disagree with what you say but would defend to the death your right to say it'?

Probably not - you're not the brightest egg in the basket.

Am bright enough to know that having a voice in the EU allows the BNP to unlock £250,000 of EU funding and enable them to spread its despicable ideology even further. That it will present them with a platform and a forum to present a united front with the other fascist parties in Europe. Furthermore, it gives them an air of spurious respectability, which they do not deserve.

[Alice in Blunderland]

Good points well made Alice. Thankyou. :)


I hardly think a 5 year commitment would put someone off nursing. If it does then they ain't the right stuff.

True, however this may not be the case some nurses within the NHS become rapidly drained by the whole set up of the system and leave to seek employment elsewhere or just leave nursing altogether. What would happen to them if the five year commitment were in force? Would you rather be nursed by someone who wants to do the job or is tied by a contract to do the job? It can make a huge difference in care?


A few graduates already aren't - too many have an eye to the wage packet..and the career ladder. Nurisng used to be a vocation...too few still see it that way.

To many it still is a vocation but as with every other job in modern Britain the true role of a nurse has changed beyond recognition.


As for motivating people - penalise indolence and incentivise endeavour. I've always worked fairly hard and conscientuously for a modest pay-packet. It should not be beyond the wit of a firm Government to get others to do the same. Dangle carrots.

Agreed Percy those who work hard should be rewarded and a firm Government would make a huge difference in todays society.

I would say however any party who were to support implimmentation of any policy with an undertone of racism against any individuals,
who would be willing to introduce repatriation,banning people because of their colour, etc ,etc, would be pulling us a step backwards not forwards.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/18/charlie-brooker-bnp-racism

[~~Tides~~]

People you would not - could not understand. Tides ebb and flow, but your own inability to adapt or in any way accept the counter view relegates you to Canute status 'ere Tides. You are stuck in your own groove with barely a scintilla of humour, original thought or elegance about your input.

Yes well, maybe I don't quite type with the beautiful elegance or keen wit which we all admire you for, oh how you entertain us so.

But I would far rather say something I believe in and stand up for something I think is right, with perhaps not with the flare of a literary genius, than pointlessly play devils advocate, so I can chuckle and 'oh how witty I am'. Empty vessels make the most noise.

God you do live up your own butt.

[Bazeye]

Not per se, but we do call a party that is full of dangerous fascists 'fascist'! Why is this so difficult for you to grasp?

I always thought fascists denied the opposition the right to free speech, which is exactly what the UAF protestors were doing.

[Aaldtimer]

This is bliddy laughable when you consider the English/Scots/Irish/Welsh diaspora abroad affecting many, many nations!
And we complain about immigrants?
Sheesh![disgust]

[Aaldtimer]

And we are so welcoming!
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=121196&messages=72

[disgust]

[percy toboggan]

Am bright enough to know that having a voice in the EU allows the BNP to unlock £250,000 of EU funding and enable them to spread its despicable ideology even further. That it will present them with a platform and a forum to present a united front with the other fascist parties in Europe. Furthermore, it gives them an air of spurious respectability, which they do not deserve.

You're fizzing like a shaken coke can at the moment Pepsi - calm down.
Take a look at Mr.Hunt's post. Although I disagree with his descriptive terminology he has a very good point. I'm fully aware of the money now due to the BNP and the enhanced platform it will give them.

Allow them to expand their ideas and if they are as obnoxious as you claim they will be hoist by their own pethard. If they are clueless and bereft of ideas then the public will not be fooled for long.

The real way to combat the BNP is for firm immigration controls (which may well come out of this) and a visible clamp down on the rise of Islamic extremism within this island of ours. If you are against the notion of either then you become part of the problem, and for both of us there will be plenty of opportunities in the future to get all hot and bothered.

[percy toboggan]

Yes well, maybe I don't quite type with the beautiful elegance or keen wit which we all admire you for, oh how you entertain us so.

But I would far rather say something I believe in and stand up for something I think is right, with perhaps not with the flare of a literary genius, than pointlessly play devils advocate, so I can chuckle and 'oh how witty I am'. Empty vessels make the most noise.

God you do live up your own butt.

Gosh! There's no need to address me as 'God'
I admit when I'm sat at the keyboard something tends to come over me in waves, Tides.

It's little more than a resillient, often cantankerous urge to resist those who attempt to put me down.

I see above that I'm making progress with you at least.
I'm happy to enhance your online experience.

[JAWS]

Voluntary repatriation - slightly incentivised by cash or immunity from imprisonment for those who have settled - but never worked here legally seems a reasonable policy to me.
Wasn't that a suggestion also suggested as an option by this Government a couple of years ago also for those who wished to return to their country of origin but had no means to do so?


The only way to counter people like Nick Griffin is to debate with him and destroy his arguments. Making him look the victim, such as today, only allows him to get publicity that allows him to peddle his twisted views. Jumping up and down because his party won two seats in Europe and acting like he is the next Hitler only plays into his hands by allowing him publicity.

I couldn’t agree more. The main reason the BNP, and never accept the excuse that it was because of the expenses scandal because there were plenty of other options, attracted so many people is that as soon as anything is mentioned about immigration or attached subjects the immediate reaction of many people and all the main political parties is to block debate by shouting Racism.

All that means is that those people with fears, real or imagined, are left with them giving them time to fester. Not only that but it also makes many other people feel frustrated that even attempts at sensible discussion is being completely blocked.

What has made the situation far worse has been the Government’s lies, evasion, manipulation of figures, promises of deportation of illegal immigrants and constant assurances that action will be taken to prevent illegal entry into the country and which never seems to happen. (In fact at actually never does happen)

Because of those actions when somebody, anybody, in this case the BNP come along and indicates they really will do something what are people who feel they are constantly being ignored going to do? Well, I think the answer is obvious ot this thread would never have been started.

The main parties, should have allowed and even encouraging the situation to be discussed openly, and with the truth not being hidden away. That way they would have been more able to ensure the matter was discussed in a calm and reasoned manner. As it is they have kept the safety valve hammered closed, blocked the view of the gauges and allowed the pressure to rise uncontrollably. They have, in effect, done the extremists work for them.

Oh, and in case anybody is confused, no I don’t support the BNP but I can quite see how people could end up being pushed in that direction.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

You're fizzing like a shaken coke can at the moment Pepsi - calm down.
Take a look at Mr.Hunt's post. Although I disagree with his descriptive terminology he has a very good point. I'm fully aware of the money now due to the BNP and the enhanced platform it will give them.

Allow them to expand their ideas and if they are as obnoxious as you claim they will be hoist by their own pethard. If they are clueless and bereft of ideas then the public will not be fooled for long.

The real way to combat the BNP is for firm immigration controls (which may well come out of this) and a visible clamp down on the rise of Islamic extremism within this island of ours. If you are against the notion of either then you become part of the problem, and for both of us there will be plenty of opportunities in the future to get all hot and bothered.

Next time I hear of a black power meeting I'll send you along in a Boy George costume.

[percy toboggan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by percy toboggan http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=559352#post559352)
You're fizzing like a shaken coke can at the moment Pepsi - calm down.
Take a look at Mr.Hunt's post. Although I disagree with his descriptive terminology he has a very good point. I'm fully aware of the money now due to the BNP and the enhanced platform it will give them.

Allow them to expand their ideas and if they are as obnoxious as you claim they will be hoist by their own pethard. If they are clueless and bereft of ideas then the public will not be fooled for long.

The real way to combat the BNP is for firm immigration controls (which may well come out of this) and a visible clamp down on the rise of Islamic extremism within this island of ours. If you are against the notion of either then you become part of the problem, and for both of us there will be plenty of opportunities in the future to get all hot and bothered.

Pepsi's Challenged retort:<<Next time I hear of a black power meeting I'll send you along in a Boy George costume.>>

You disappoint me Pepsi.
Look at the two contributions above and judge who is the grown up. Perhaps my sixth form jibe was chronologically premature.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Mork: Ah, humour.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Nazis on the rise in America as well as Britain, it seems. :(

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Security-man-shot-dead-by.5355206.jp

[The Pepsi Challenge]

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8644741474

Facebook against Fascism...

[hotrod4]

Nick Griffin for a knighthood anyone?:lol:

[Rheghead]

Nazis on the rise in America as well as Britain, it seems. :(

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Security-man-shot-dead-by.5355206.jp

More Paleonazi than neonazi!! [lol]

[Gene Hunt]

Nick Griffin for a knighthood anyone?:lol:

Only if my wife can wield the sword .. [evil]

Must be his personal nightmare that, getting down on one knee and bowing his head in front of a black woman with a sword.

[hotrod4]

He's right up there with my other 3 favourites-Johnny Adair,Michael Stone and The rev Ian Paisley!!:lol:

[TBH]

This is bliddy laughable when you consider the English/Scots/Irish/Welsh diaspora abroad affecting many, many nations!
And we complain about immigrants?
Sheesh![disgust]So, would you say there is a recent spate of mass immigration from the UK to other countries?

[scorrie]

Nick Griffin for a knighthood anyone?

I'll give him a Knighthood if he can beat Gordon Brown in a competition of my choosing. Let's see....OK, they both have only one eye, so the competition is going to be who has the most realistic fake eye.

Roll up Ladies and Gentlemen, I bring you the contenders:-

In the Red Corner, Gordon "Pretty Boy" Brown, and, in the Brown Corner, Nick "Fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down" Griffin.

Seconds out Round One:-

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i237/scorrie57/gordon_brown_fat-749381.jpghttp://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i237/scorrie57/99_28508t.jpg

Ayes to the left..............
Ayes to the right.............

The Eyes have it!!

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i237/scorrie57/gordon.jpg

[Aaldtimer]

So, would you say there is a recent spate of mass immigration from the UK to other countries?

No. Only thousands over many hundreds of years...continuing to this day.

[forevera123]

after reading you all talking about these, i am regret that i put all those leaflet in the bin without a looking

[Gene Hunt]

I actually phoned the BNP yesterday and decided to put to the test there policy of allowing only white people to join. This is a rough transcription that shows just how brain dead these morons are. I used the general contact number on their website. I was inspired by the "But your black" scene in Lethal Weapon 2.

"Hello, I would like to join the BNP but I have a few questions"

"Ok, just ask away and I will try to help"

"Right, well is it a bar to me joining if my wife is black ??, what I mean is will she be safe sitting in the car with our two daughters outside a meeting ??

"I'm sorry but why would you want to join our Party if your wife and children are black ??, are you winding me up ??"

"No mate .. seriously. Its just that she has been giving me loads of grief lately and I reckon this is a good way of getting my own back on her. Obviously I dont want her attacked though or deported as I need her fit and mobile to keep the house clean and such but I was just wondering if I was eligible to join as you only allow white people in, I did think I would be barred you know, guilt by association or such ??"

"You have got to be kidding havent you ??"

"Well to be fair I could also improve the IQ level in the party. For instance I wouldnt be stupid enough to put out a poster declaring the "New Battle of Britian" about Immigration and use a photograph of a Spitfire from a Polish Squadron complete with Polish flag"

"That was a printers error and nothing to do with us"

"Fair enough. But to be honest I do have a serious point"

"Finally, and what is that then ??"

"I just wonder if you see the irony in your using the British Militairy in your advertising when they think you are nothing but vermin. I have seen your colleagues pitch up on the Army Rumour Service expecting support and run off crying when they get told to poke off in rather less flattering terms. It's just my son is a Royal Marine and he is mixed race. I wondered how you felt about the fact that he is quite happy to defend your right to freedom of speech or do you take offence at being defended by men such as my son ??

*click* .. He put the phone down.



Stay tuned !! .. Next week Gene Hunt attempts to get the BNP to make an exception for Beyonce Knowles and Halle Berry because they are "fit" .. ;)

[percy toboggan]

It's by no means a fair assumption to say the 'British Military think the BNP are nothing but vermin'

Your son may be a 'Royal Marine' , and you have spent some time in the Territorial Army I believe but this hardly confers 'spokesman' status.

Also it's is a long way from disliking or disagreeing with policy and referring to someone as 'vermin'. Your teminology is reminiscent of 1930's Germany and is really rather silly in this day and age. Any far-right supporter referring to immigrants as 'vermin' is also to be scorned. This is schoolboy chatter and does nothing to carry the subject forward.

You seem to have thrown your recent objectivity out of the window in pursuit of a cheap laugh.

As the only people 'outside' BNP meeting are the usual rag tag bunch of colour-blind demonstators from rent-a-mob who clearly love being surrounded by all hues of humanity I'm puzzled by your first question...disappointed by the others.

[joxville]

Stay tuned !! .. Next week Gene Hunt attempts to get the BNP to make an exception for Beyonce Knowles and Halle Berry because they are "fit" .. ;)

If you need any help I'm your man. :cool:

[golach]

It's by no means a fair assumption to say the 'British Military think the BNP are nothing but vermin'
Sorry Percy, but I, as an ex Reservist of 27 years service disagree with your satement. I and many of my compatriots have discussed this party and its membership over many a messdeck table, and all decided this party and its policy makers are not the kind of persons we put on our suits of blue and signed on to defend. Even today I am still of the same opinion.

[Gene Hunt]

Sorry Percy, but I, as an ex Reservist of 27 years service disagree with your satement. I and many of my compatriots have discussed this party and its membership over many a messdeck table, and all decided this party and its policy makers are not the kind of persons we put on our suits of blue and signed on to defend. Even today I am still of the same opinion.

Thanks Golach.

I post on the British Army Rumour Service and the BNP and their followers often turn up and try to garner support. Its an unofficial site populated by members and ex members of all three services and it is the main unofficial Forces site of the UK. They are quickly given short shrift, there is real anger at these racists using images of Spitfires and the Dambusters to peddle their hate. As my son is a serving Royal Marine and is also mixed race I would say that he is a lot more qualified as a Spokesman for the attitudes of the Forces on Race than someone who never served but is happy to hide behind the saying of "I dont like what you say but I will defend your right to say it", that rings hollow coming from a man who was against non white soldiers who were happy to do that on his behalf settling here.

Percy ..

I refer to the BNP as vermin for good reason. One of their members referred to my daughter as a "half breed" and when challenged refused to repeat it and scurried off like a rat. So thats why I think they are vermin. For you to compare my view based on that experience, and more than a few others by those who are openly racist, to 1930's Germany just shows that throwing big words around is no indication of actual intelligence.

And I know why your puzzled. You applaud my contention that the BNP should be allowed to air their views but when I comment upon those views, and those who hold them you then accuse me of basically being a Nazi. I know why that is and so do you Percy, but you being you, it will never be said directly will it ??, you insinuate that about me yet on an earlier post on this thread you refer to non whites as "black", "browns" and "yellows", at the very least thats disrespectful.

I am for free speech but that works both ways. I dont have "objectivity" about the BNP, I think they are a bunch of racist idiots that I wouldnt urinate on if they burst into flames in front of me. So I laugh at them .. because thats what you do at jokes.

[Bazeye]

I refer to the BNP as vermin for good reason. One of their members referred to my daughter as a "half breed" and when challenged refused to repeat it and scurried off like a rat. So thats why I think they are vermin.

Can see where youre coming from Gene, but isnt that a bit like saying that if you got mugged by a Chinese person you would then hate all Chinese people. I used Chinese as an example before any offended Chinese people post.

[Gene Hunt]

Can see where youre coming from Gene, but isnt that a bit like saying that if you got mugged by a Chinese person you would then hate all Chinese people. I used Chinese as an example before any offended Chinese people post.

Who says I "hated" anyone ??, people who join the BNP are, in my view, to be pitied rather than scorned. I am sick of racism and racists, I had enough from my wife's family when I met her to be honest.

If they are allowed their views on people with the skin tone of my wife and kids they cant really complain on my view of them can they ??, in my situation I appreciate the fact the everyone is allowed an opinion but I also have the right to take any view I like on that opinion. I dont go around taking issue with individual members of the Party because of their beliefs. I dont believe I have that right. Taking the mickey out of them was just another prank call to me, I do that at work when I am bored.

Anyone who says that to a young girl is a coward, no better than vermin whatever there beliefs in any arena in my view. I only found out a day or two later that he was an active BNP member. I didnt threaten him or even insult him like he did I merely asked him to repeat his views, something he didnt have the courage to do when faced with someone of equal size and gender. Obviously a big brave man with strength in his beliefs wasnt he ??

The BNP are allowed their views on my family, I am allowed my views on them. But no one, and I mean no one, walks way unchallenged after saying what he did to any member of my family.

[maverick]

Ah people. Wisdom is wasted on Idiots, me thinks. There seems to be a need for people in general to point the finger and blame and accuse for the problems in our civilised country. The government have always been responsible for the country's mess, for getting us into it and out of it.
It's very easy to blame immigration for our problems, but I don't think that immigration is the problem in our country. It's illegal immigration that causes the problems, and its the governments fault that such a condition exists. In the eyes of many would be immigrants, Britain is and always will be a soft touch, free health treatment , a social security system that is open to abuse and free education for their children. These are issues that the government need to address if they want to keep the BNP on the back foot.
In Britain we should all be able to live together regardless of age, creed, colour or religion.
Remember this hatred is a powerful thing it will consume your person, warp and twist your perception of what is, set brother against brother, father against son and in the end will you really be any further on.................

[percy toboggan]

I applaud your sentiment Maverick, you speak good sense.

Mr.Hunt: I did not say you were a 'Nazi' - if you take the time to read properly my words said your terminology was 'reminiscent' of the Nazi era.

I well remember seeing propaganda films in which Jews were likened to rats scurrying around grain warehouses and the like. A horrible allusion.

You speak from the standpoint of one with much to be resentful of. As you rightly suggest, some members of the BNP would lament your marital choice and relegate your children to the rank of second class citizens.

This is the element I am most concerned about. Your business is your business.

I'm surprised your experiences of military and ex-military websites reveals the antipathy you describe toward the BNP. You obviously like the online company of ex-servicemen. To each their own. I will take your word for it. Maybe they're afraid of being sacked some day if their leanings are openly aired....for it can't be long can it before such draconian punishments are applied?

Servicemen have their political opinions, even if they have sometimes to keep them close to their chests and commit themselves to follow any shade of Government, no matter how at odds they are with its views. A position I would find intolerable as a free thinker and ardent self-conservationist.

Furthermore:my reference to 'black, brown and yellow' people was not meant to be 'dis-respectful' - not for one minute would I object to being described as 'white'. Even though it no longer seems to hold much of an advantage beyond the sub-conscious. Had I added the term 'khaki' then you would have had a point perhaps...this was an expression popular in decades past and I'm glad it's gone from common usage.

I can never resist arguing the toss with people like you Mr.Hunt, even if I now have to couch my words carefully given the dawn of enlightenment ushered in by generations of well meaners, and those directly involved in the transformation of my nation.

Interestingly you experienced 'racism' from your in-laws

Golach: you speak as you find and that's fair enough. I have never met anyone face to face who told me multi-culturalism was a good thing.

A multi-ethnic mono-culture is something different.It's the best we can hope for now but I fear things have slipped too far down to the road to terminal diversity. It will prove terminal one day, unless something extra-ordinary and unique happens.

The only surprise here is that so few seem willing to agree with me in public. I can only assume that I'm either completely off my rocker, or those who would agree are too dis-inclined to say so.

[golach]

[quote=percy toboggan;560849]

Golach: you speak as you find and that's fair enough. I have never met anyone face to face who told me multi-culturalism was a good thing./quote]

Like wise Percy I have never come face to face with anyone who told me that multi-culturalism was a bad thing.

[percy toboggan]

[quote=percy toboggan;560849]

Golach: you speak as you find and that's fair enough. I have never met anyone face to face who told me multi-culturalism was a good thing./quote]


Like wise Percy I have never come face to face with anyone who told me that multi-culturalism was a bad thing.


Then you Golach, as a reasonable man and estimable poster finally prove to me that my prime concerns may be totally irrelevant to this forum and I'd be wiser to take my words elsewhere.

So what happens then? Do they whisper it behind your back ?

No agreement with me on this thread or any hint of support for my stance will see me out of here before the weekend is done. And that's a promise. Coming back after a discreet though public flounce might have been an error.;)

[gleeber]

Calm down now Percy. My sympathies lean towards your argument. Once I challenge my own prejudices your prejudices seem miniscule in comparison.
I would say the greater majority of the people I have worked with over the years have racist leanings. Mind you, non of them are racist. :roll:
This present situation needs sorted because theres a lot of stuff going on below the surface amongst ordinary people and your right, non of them wouild openly admit it unless they were surrounded by similar thinking people.
I dont think leaving the org will serve any purpose. Your input to a community largely sheltered from the problems you raise and the coherant fashion you present them are important.

[_Ju_]

Your input to a community largely sheltered from the problems you raise and the coherant fashion you present them are important.

Coherent? No that is not the correct word for what PT is or does. To use Nicks own speech (look it up on a previous you tube link): You have a choice of "selling out" your ideas or "selling" your ideas. When your ideas are unacceptable, you dress them in a way to make them more presentable, and therefore more sellable (some people would call it fraud or outright lies). PT is using apparently simple clean words, easy to empathise with ideas and seemingly acceptable policies, to sell a sanitised form of fascism, racism and xenophobia.
Those who disagree with him are ignored, insulted, belittled, patronized or outright bullied. Afterall, if you disagree with his intolerance you are the ultimate intolerant.

I will not miss PT hate filled badly disguised spoutings. You have threatened to leave before, with no (public) entreaties for you to stay. Is this another empty bluff so that your ego can be buffered to a shine with the supplications of your undying fans to stay?

[TBH]

No. Only thousands over many hundreds of years...continuing to this day.Would you agree that the migration of Scots, Welsh, English, etc, over hundreds of years, is a bit different to the veritable flood of foreign nationals into the UK over the past decade or so?

[_Ju_]

Would you agree that the migration of Scots, Welsh, English, etc, over hundreds of years, is a bit different to the veritable flood of foreign nationals into the UK over the past decade or so?

I can garantee that the impact of the Scots Welsh and English on the native peoples of Australia, new Zealand North (and even South) America was alot larger, more bloodthirsty and with an impact that still resonate nowadays in the very discussion that is happening in this thread.

[Gene Hunt]

I applaud your sentiment Maverick, you speak good sense.

Mr.Hunt: I did not say you were a 'Nazi' - if you take the time to read properly my words said your terminology was 'reminiscent' of the Nazi era.

I well remember seeing propaganda films in which Jews were likened to rats scurrying around grain warehouses and the like. A horrible allusion.

You speak from the standpoint of one with much to be resentful of. As you rightly suggest, some members of the BNP would lament your marital choice and relegate your children to the rank of second class citizens.

This is the element I am most concerned about. Your business is your business.

I'm surprised your experiences of military and ex-military websites reveals the antipathy you describe toward the BNP. You obviously like the online company of ex-servicemen. To each their own. I will take your word for it. Maybe they're afraid of being sacked some day if their leanings are openly aired....for it can't be long can it before such draconian punishments are applied?

Servicemen have their political opinions, even if they have sometimes to keep them close to their chests and commit themselves to follow any shade of Government, no matter how at odds they are with its views. A position I would find intolerable as a free thinker and ardent self-conservationist.

Furthermore:my reference to 'black, brown and yellow' people was not meant to be 'dis-respectful' - not for one minute would I object to being described as 'white'. Even though it no longer seems to hold much of an advantage beyond the sub-conscious. Had I added the term 'khaki' then you would have had a point perhaps...this was an expression popular in decades past and I'm glad it's gone from common usage.

I can never resist arguing the toss with people like you Mr.Hunt, even if I now have to couch my words carefully given the dawn of enlightenment ushered in by generations of well meaners, and those directly involved in the transformation of my nation.

Interestingly you experienced 'racism' from your in-laws

Golach: you speak as you find and that's fair enough. I have never met anyone face to face who told me multi-culturalism was a good thing.

A multi-ethnic mono-culture is something different.It's the best we can hope for now but I fear things have slipped too far down to the road to terminal diversity. It will prove terminal one day, unless something extra-ordinary and unique happens.

The only surprise here is that so few seem willing to agree with me in public. I can only assume that I'm either completely off my rocker, or those who would agree are too dis-inclined to say so.


Percy I find myself agreeing with you on one at least one point. I have experienced racism from both sides and I am glad you at least understand my view on that. As you say I have experienced racism from my in laws and I consider them as bad as the BNP. They are no longer welcome in my home and I will not speak with them anymore, my wife also takes this view. I dont see any difference between them and the members and supporters of the BNP.

I dont how you have come to the conclusion that you find the antipathy towards the BNP amongst Servicemen "surprising", you have no militairy experience and obviously dont frequent such sites to base such an opinion on. Just what is that view based on ??, anyway fair enough, I appreciate its not your cup of tea. But if you do want to find out for yourself the evidence is in cyberspace, I would post a link up but Servicemen being as starightforward as they are it would break the forum rules on here. But as someone who has stood alongside men of a different skin tone in Iraq maybe thats simply it. We see each other as comrades, fellow soldiers, muckers, squaddies or whatever and thats all that matters. When racists pop up and try to exploit that it doesnt go down well, and servicemen are naturally blunt in such matters. For anyone to claim that these guys have opinions they dont express is something I have never seen in my admittedly limited experience and is definetly not something that my son has experienced. In uniform you get to know your mates VERY well. I am sure you can understand the disgust I feel towards a party that uses the militairy in its sick advertising but sees my son, who is a part of that militairy, as inferior. Its laughable.

And as for your claim that my words were "reminiscent" of the Nazi era I would have thought that the only words that could be attached to that era during that unpleasant episode was of the man (and I use the words loosely) who called my daughter a "half breed", Interestingly you associate me, and not him, with that regime which held EXACTLY the same views as he did on people they considered "inferior", I find that interesting. Considering the comments aimed at my daughter, the BNP's penchant for using the Military for its own ends and the dilemma considering my sons colour I stand by my view, to me they are vermin. I use the same word to describe my in laws to be honest. Maybe a bit over descriptive but thats just me. I dont pull any punches.

Please feel free to argue the toss with "people like me" as you put it. At least I am upfront about my views and beliefs. There are no grey areas in my views unlike some who arent being exactly honest in their true beliefs on this thread in my view.

As I dont believe in flogging a dead horse and I have made my views clear I have nothing further to contribute to the thread, so I will leave the discussion to no doubt roll on.

[Aaldtimer]

Coherent? No that is not the correct word for what PT is or does. To use Nicks own speech (look it up on a previous you tube link): You have a choice of "selling out" your ideas or "selling" your ideas. When your ideas are unacceptable, you dress them in a way to make them more presentable, and therefore more sellable (some people would call it fraud or outright lies). PT is using apparently simple clean words, easy to empathise with ideas and seemingly acceptable policies, to sell a sanitised form of fascism, racism and xenophobia.
Those who disagree with him are ignored, insulted, belittled, patronized or outright bullied. Afterall, if you disagree with his intolerance you are the ultimate intolerant.

I will not miss PT hate filled badly disguised spoutings. You have threatened to leave before, with no (public) entreaties for you to stay. Is this another empty bluff so that your ego can be buffered to a shine with the supplications of your undying fans to stay?


Well said Ju! Bravo.
Bye Perce, we won't miss ya!

[Aaldtimer]

I can garantee that the impact of the Scots Welsh and English on the native peoples of Australia, new Zealand North (and even South) America was alot larger, more bloodthirsty and with an impact that still resonate nowadays in the very discussion that is happening in this thread.

AgainJu, well said!

[bekisman]

Here we go again with Percy and his utterances, this time with reference to Gene Hunt: "Your son may be a 'Royal Marine' , and you have spent some time in the Territorial Army I believe but this hardly confers 'spokesman' status...I'm surprised your experiences of military and ex-military websites reveals the antipathy you describe toward the BNP. You obviously like the online company of ex-servicemen. To each their own. I will take your word for it. Maybe they're afraid of being sacked some day if their leanings are openly aired....for it can't be long can it before such draconian punishments are applied?Servicemen have their political opinions, even if they have sometimes to keep them close to their chests and commit themselves to follow any shade of Government, no matter how at odds they are with its views. A position I would find intolerable as a free thinker and ardent self-conservationist."

"but this hardly confers 'spokesman' status" - Hmm - a wee bit more than you Percy?. "they're afraid of being sacked some day if their leanings are openly aired" what a load of tosh! As has been previously pointed out, you have no experience of what military personnel are 'afraid' of. Followed by "and commit themselves to follow any shade of Government, no matter how at odds they are with its views." eh? that's what we do (did) mate, and the very silly "I would find intolerable as a free thinker " Free thinker - come on Percy do you think we're robots - speaking from my own 15 years in the cake - If you'd had the guts to stick it in the Forces for more than a few weeks you'd find we're 'Free thinkers' too - what egotism!

Percy: "I never had much time for people in suits and ties - or Uniforms come to that...my default reaction would be 'distrust' . That's just as silly as saying I don't trust Lorry Drivers because of Peter Sutcliffe or 'Serial killers working as long-haul lorry drivers have murdered at least 500 women across America' or a lorry driver arrested on suspicion of murdering a man during an attempted robbery in Warwickshire'.
But at least you make a stab at making amends by telling us "but then I've led a sheltered life"..

Often wondered Percy why you put up with your oft-stated situation down there, hammering out xenophobic threads on the web instead of taking action such taking part in political action, to try and change things, or, if not possible; actually moving?

[Bazeye]

This threads livening up a bit isnt it. Whos turn is it next?

[percy toboggan]

Coherent? No that is not the correct word for what PT is or does. To use Nicks own speech (look it up on a previous you tube link): You have a choice of "selling out" your ideas or "selling" your ideas. When your ideas are unacceptable, you dress them in a way to make them more presentable, and therefore more sellable (some people would call it fraud or outright lies). PT is using apparently simple clean words, easy to empathise with ideas and seemingly acceptable policies, to sell a sanitised form of fascism, racism and xenophobia.
Those who disagree with him are ignored, insulted, belittled, patronized or outright bullied. Afterall, if you disagree with his intolerance you are the ultimate intolerant.

I will not miss PT hate filled badly disguised spoutings. You have threatened to leave before, with no (public) entreaties for you to stay. Is this another empty bluff so that your ego can be buffered to a shine with the supplications of your undying fans to stay?


By George Ju! Your English is coming on a treat.
That last paragraph is pure class. Although, I don't hate anyone and I even have a soft spot for you.

Bekisman:you never learn, ever been a trawlerman ? - you must have a scrap book of 'Percy's Postings' I can understand cameraderie in the metaphorical trench...then when the guys leave and come home looking for work there are few jobs because the immigrants have taken so many of them.
Gene Hunt: Fair comments...please do not stop posting on this thread because your views (if not your hyperbolic language) are important.
Gleeber: You are among the best that there is.
Aaldtimer: Give us a kiss.

The English cricket team were booed out on their home ground of Lords yesterday by a bunch of Indian ingrates who came her looking to escape the squalour that was/is India.Many succeeded.

Fast forward a hundred years - English people have migrated in their hundreds of thousands to Scotland. There is now a border and tickets for international matches are confined to residents. As Scotland emerge to play the old enemy at Hampden a chorus of boos rings out from the ungrateful English ex-pats who by booing spit in the faces of their hosts with no sense of sportmanship or fair play - call it a form of gratitude if you like.

Would it matter to your Scottish Grandchildren?
Norman Tebbit spoke of this phenomena many years ago...he had a point. I'd have been happy for the Indian fans to support India (who cares) what bothered me was the outright hostility toward their hosts.

[_Ju_]

By George Ju! Your English is coming on a treat.
That last paragraph is pure class. Although, I don't hate anyone and I even have a soft spot for you.

.

No surprise here: Insulting,belittling and patronising as usual. You will never be able to suprise anyone PT.
I am glad though that you think my english is coming on a treat. It's quite amazing really, since English is my mother tongue, seeing as I am half dutch, half Portuguese (though a Portuguese national), born and bred in South Africa. Thank you so much for the positive (?????????) comments you see fit to compliment (?????????????) me with. Your english I see is heading downhill fast (or at least the spelling).

By the way darling, I don't hate you. I don't know you, I don't want to know you and hate is a very exhausting emotion to direct at someone of little bearing on my life. What I do abhor is all the ill veiled ideology behind your posts: You are a racist. You are a Xenophobe. You are biggoted. You are probably even Misogynistic. This was a site known for family values and moderation. That is no longer true. Landmarker was banned for life ultimately because of racist comments. You are one and the same, and for the life of me I do not understand why you are still here.

.

[percy toboggan]

No surprise here: Insulting,belittling and patronising as usual. You will never be able to suprise anyone PT.
I am glad though that you think my english is coming on a treat. It's quite amazing really, since English is my mother tongue, seeing as I am half dutch, half Portuguese (though a Portuguese national), born and bred in South Africa. Thank you so much for the positive (?????????) comments you see fit to compliment (?????????????) me with. Your english I see is heading downhill fast (or at least the spelling).

By the way darling, I don't hate you. I don't know you, I don't want to know you and hate is a very exhausting emotion to direct at someone of little bearing on my life. What I do abhor is all the ill veiled ideology behind your posts: You are a racist. You are a Xenophobe. You are biggoted. You are probably even Misogynistic. This was a site known for family values and moderation. That is no longer true. Landmarker was banned for life ultimately because of racist comments. You are one and the same, and for the life of me I do not understand why you are still here.

.
Perhaps in the interests of balance.
Mark Lander is indeed a close ally of mine - or was , I hear he headed for the hills some time ago. I sense your mention of him is a thinly veiled call to the authorities here to throw me out. They will do as they see fit. I have been skating on thin ice for a while. Tell me though, where would you then direct all of this spleen venting?

Although you're contradicting yourself by asking questions and then enclosing them in parentheses...perhaps this means they are rhetorical.

I apologise if my spelling was awry, I had to hurry because my wife was insisting I drive her to B & Q for some bedding plants - mixed colours - to brighten up our borders. (No bun or half baked humour intended).

Ju: I am happy to live down to your expectations of me. You call me some really nasty names and have done for a long, long time. Fortunately I do not take your name-calling to heart. Water, duck, back. You're pretty good at being angry though - I suspect that's the Latin temprament coming out.

Your background suggests you may have experience of really nasty racist attitudes. Don't many Portuguese people despise the Spanish ? (all the same to me that Iberian peninsular anyway) . And was not South Africa the very cradle of nastiness. For what it's worth I think those of European descent should have taken the hint decades ago and got out.

You accuse my 'English' of heading downhill fast - given that my moniker is 'toboggan' this may have been a stab at Portugo-African humour and I have to say it suits you Ju.

It's a shame we can never be friends.

No opinion on the cricket?

[percy toboggan]

.....Often wondered Percy why you put up with your oft-stated situation down there, hammering out xenophobic threads on the web instead of taking action such taking part in political action, to try and change things, or, if not possible; actually moving?

First of all I do understand your allegiance to the military life. I know many who have served see those uniformed days as the best of their lives. A similar fate often befalls professional footballers who have to retire at a young age.

Whether this is true of you I don't know but as you are ready to pick up the cudgel of the keyboard in defence of almost every aspect of criticism of the Armed Forces I can only assume and infer.

Not that I criticise them much. The Armed Forces are one of the few things in this country that remain first class. The matter of their deployments concern me, and although these foreign adventures prove an outlet for all that training & mostly controlled violence inducing verve, I'd much rather they were selected more carefully (the deployments).

I am far from 'xenophobic'. I actually admire other cultures and the panoply of humnaity can enrich life.

How do you know I do not take part in political action , either currently or in the past? I started early, delivering Tory party leaflets in 1960 and assisting in the ferrying of voters to the polling stations. I was nine years old.

As regards 'moving' perhaps I will one day, but for now my own immediate area is safe and settled with much to celebrate.(including a twenty quid a week mortgage currently paid for by ptotection insurance) .

The fact that this very morning just a couple of miles away I rounded a bend on the way to B & Q was confronted with a group of masked women in the middle of the road (laggardly crossers) all wearing facial hoods is only mildly disconcerting. Incidentally I do think that peripheral vision is affected by these masks , only last year I almost took out (army terminology you might appreciate)such a masked lady in Bolton - she hadn't seen the 44 ton juggery-nut as she stepped out onto the pavement.

The above tale is absolutely true and I kid you not.
So, although I wasn't laughing and managed to brake and let them cross safely. I smiled inwardly as I mused a funny thing happening on way back to the forum. :D

Keep championing the Army , Air-Force and Navy Bekisman....Glory Days live in the memory longest and in a way I envy you them. It's been a long time since I was banging in the goals on public parks, and sweeping around bends on motor-bikes.

[Gene Hunt]

Ah .. the Percy two step.

Insinuate something and when you are called on it then backtrack and try to make others look bad while still snidely sniping away and throwing in a few big words to make yourself look articulate and well read. I only have one testicle Percy but you know what .. I still have more than you. Its a shame that you feel the need to hide behind this front Percy, I might dislike your views intensely but I would actually gain a modicum of respect for you if you actually stood up and admitted what is blatantly apparent to everyone else.

You have posted above that you think the Forces are "first class" but have said in the past that you would be disappointed if your own son joined them. Interesting. You have mocked me and my son for our career choices but now you have done a 180 at such speed that it would induce whiplash in people just watching. You have no experience of HM Forces yourself but claim to know what that the majority them hold views that they dare not say, are you a Jedi Knight or something and use the force ??, you compare me to a citizen of 1930's Germany because I referred to a BNP member who called my daughter a "half breed" "vermin" yet you dont see fit to draw the 1930's Germany comparison to him, as glaring as it is, or indeed answer my query as to why you chose to throw that one at me. I am not shocked though, you dont have the stones to say what you think up front. Straight answers scare people who hide behind double talk and insinuation. Your stance on the Gurkha's for instance became much clearer recently, or have you now bat turned again and think they are "first class" as part of the Forces .. Sheesh.

In the past you have questioned my choice of username, maybe I am a bit loud, a bit boorish and maybe just a tad sexist in my humour .. I am ok with that. I am also succesful, intelligent, ruggedly handsome and extremely good at something that is difficult to do. Modest too come to think of it. I can laugh at myself as well as take the michael out of others because I am comfortable in my own skin. I am not a racist, I am not a bigot and I say what I mean. Its no wonder we dont get on. I personally think you have a major inferiority complex going on, I dont think life has worked out the way you want and that stings just a little bit so you ridicule and demean and talk like you have swallowed a dictionary and thesaraus to try and convince yourself as much as others that you are clever, worldly and a cut above. Hasn't worked, you are so transparent if you were held up to the light you could read a paper through you. For instance the ONLY time you have applauded my views was when I said the BNP were entitled to their views .. Hmmm .. I can just visualise you jumping for joy at that one considering my family situation.

I dont think you should be kicked out Percy. I think you should stay, if only because you make everyone else look good. And every village needs an idiot after all.

[bekisman]

Percy:
"First of all I do understand your allegiance to the military life."
"The Armed Forces are one of the few things in this country that remain first class"
"Keep championing the Army , Air-Force and Navy Bekisman.. in a way I envy you them"

"I actually admire other cultures and the panoply of humnaity can enrich life.."

Hmm wonder how long this will last?

[rich]

.

A large rump of semi-literate working class whites.
.

Percy, where are you coming from, calling people whites?

Will you next begin to characterize the British population in terms of duskiness of skin?
Shall we have an Octoroon candidate or a High Yella?

This sort of insanity originates in the slave markets of 19the century New Orleans or Charleston.

I am pleased to report that my wife carries the gene for sickle cell anemia. This is common among the Africans who were brought to the United States in slave ships.

For us that is something to be proud of. (Louis Armstrong is my sort of Scotsman!)

For poor souls like yourself "racial " blending is simply another source of anxiety.

So it's goodbye Pushkin, au revoir Dumas, farewell Malcom X and James Baldwin, kiss goodbye to the great Duke Ellington, let's ignore Tiger Woods or the current president of the USA.

Goodbye, goodbye, gone for ever...

While you sit gibbering on your bucket, Percy like some sort of mentally unhinged Oor Wullie.

[gleeber]

How do you know I do not take part in political action , either currently or in the past? I started early, delivering Tory party leaflets in 1960 and assisting in the ferrying of voters to the polling stations. I was nine years old.
I'm disappointed Percy. I've shown my support for you for the past 3 occasions youve needed to encircle the wagons and now I discover some of the things they are saying about you just may be true.
You were a bliddy Tory when you were 9. I'm outta here, your on your own buddy. :eek:

[percy toboggan]

Ah .. the Percy two step.

Insinuate something and when you are called on it then backtrack and try to make others look bad while still snidely sniping away and throwing in a few big words to make yourself look articulate and well read. I only have one testicle Percy but you know what .. I still have more than you. Its a shame that you feel the need to hide behind this front Percy, I might dislike your views intensely but I would actually gain a modicum of respect for you if you actually stood up and admitted what is blatantly apparent to everyone else.

You have posted above that you think the Forces are "first class" but have said in the past that you would be disappointed if your own son joined them. Interesting. You have mocked me and my son for our career choices but now you have done a 180 at such speed that it would induce whiplash in people just watching. You have no experience of HM Forces yourself but claim to know what that the majority them hold views that they dare not say, are you a Jedi Knight or something and use the force ??, you compare me to a citizen of 1930's Germany because I referred to a BNP member who called my daughter a "half breed" "vermin" yet you dont see fit to draw the 1930's Germany comparison to him, as glaring as it is, or indeed answer my query as to why you chose to throw that one at me. I am not shocked though, you dont have the stones to say what you think up front. Straight answers scare people who hide behind double talk and insinuation. Your stance on the Gurkha's for instance became much clearer recently, or have you now bat turned again and think they are "first class" as part of the Forces .. Sheesh.

In the past you have questioned my choice of username, maybe I am a bit loud, a bit boorish and maybe just a tad sexist in my humour .. I am ok with that. I am also succesful, intelligent, ruggedly handsome and extremely good at something that is difficult to do. Modest too come to think of it. I can laugh at myself as well as take the michael out of others because I am comfortable in my own skin. I am not a racist, I am not a bigot and I say what I mean. Its no wonder we dont get on. I personally think you have a major inferiority complex going on, I dont think life has worked out the way you want and that stings just a little bit so you ridicule and demean and talk like you have swallowed a dictionary and thesaraus to try and convince yourself as much as others that you are clever, worldly and a cut above. Hasn't worked, you are so transparent if you were held up to the light you could read a paper through you. For instance the ONLY time you have applauded my views was when I said the BNP were entitled to their views .. Hmmm .. I can just visualise you jumping for joy at that one considering my family situation.

I dont think you should be kicked out Percy. I think you should stay, if only because you make everyone else look good. And every village needs an idiot after all.

We must all speak as we find Mr.Hunt. Though I most certainly did not 'mock' your son for his career choice. If I were to 'mock' anybody it might be the Dad who keeps banging on about it.

[percy toboggan]

I'm disappointed Percy. I've shown my support for you for the past 3 occasions youve needed to encircle the wagons and now I discover some of the things they are saying about you just may be true.
You were a bliddy Tory when you were 9. I'm outta here, your on your own buddy. :eek:

In my defence I was press-ganged into service by my Mother - whose Boss was a local Councillor . The money was good too - five bob for the night !

Mum had moved from a science based job helping to build Blue-Streak' missiles (hope all you miltaristic nutters are impressed) for Ferranti's to a part-time role in a Greengrocer's shop (hope all you vegetarians are likewise).

My canvassing enouraged an early interest in politics. I avidly followed General Elections in the nineteen sixties and have done so ever since.

Gleeber - your 'on my own' comment cut me to the quick. I once visited the Little Big Horn and now feel a bit like George Custer fighting off all those pesky Indians...still all of this pressure must be good for me. I have just returned from hospital and an 'Echo' cardiogram reveals - as I suspected - all is perfectly normal with the old ticker...so the bad news is my detractors might have to put up with me for a while yet...unless someone in authority pulls my plug/yanks my chain or otherwise terminates one of my few remaining bits of internet input.

[percy toboggan]

Percy, where are you coming from, calling people whites?

Will you next begin to characterize the British population in terms of duskiness of skin?
Shall we have an Octoroon candidate or a High Yella?

This sort of insanity originates in the slave markets of 19the century New Orleans or Charleston.

I am pleased to report that my wife carries the gene for sickle cell anemia. This is common among the Africans who were brought to the United States in slave ships.

For us that is something to be proud of. (Louis Armstrong is my sort of Scotsman!)

For poor souls like yourself "racial " blending is simply another source of anxiety.

So it's goodbye Pushkin, au revoir Dumas, farewell Malcom X and James Baldwin, kiss goodbye to the great Duke Ellington, let's ignore Tiger Woods or the current president of the USA.

Goodbye, goodbye, gone for ever...

While you sit gibbering on your bucket, Percy like some sort of mentally unhinged Oor Wullie.

:roll:...you accuse me of 'gibbering'
I hope your wife gets better - which I realise you might not appreciate is a joke.

[TBH]

When, has having a gene, capable of spreading a serious disease, been something to be proud of?

[Gene Hunt]

We must all speak as we find Mr.Hunt. Though I most certainly did not 'mock' your son for his career choice. If I were to 'mock' anybody it might be the Dad who keeps banging on about it.

You might mock me .. :lol::lol: .. stop playing to the audience Percy because we both know from private correspondence that you dont have the capability.

Dont you remember the last time you tried and you resorted to your "Ive got a dossier on you" rubbish and then sunk into silence when your bluff was called ??, and then, as an act of desperation you decided to play the "Look at nasty Mr Hunt" card on thread to the sound of silence and the odd tumbleweed drifting past.

Your letting your ambition outrun your abilities there .. ;)

[rich]

Sickle cell anemia is not an infectious disease.

It is a chronic condition, although in a significant section of the population it can become a killer. It is handed down genetically like certain forms of breast cancer.

Sickle cell anemia is overwhelmingly a condition found in Africans.

It's significance in the context of race relations in the USA is that a simple blood test can tell if you have the gene. It doesn't matter how "white" - to use Percy's disastrous language -a person may be. The presence of the sickle cell gene reveals a link to Africa.

My wife is proud of her African heritage as is our daughter and grand-daughter. I should point out that they are all fair skinned and it came as a surprise when results of test for a completely different condition revealed the African link.

Why should people in Africa have such a preponderance of the sickle cell gene? I gather it might confer some sort of protection from malaria but dont quote me on that.

[rich]

Sorry for mangling your name in the previous post!

[tonkatojo]

Sickle cell anemia is not an infectious disease.

It is a chronic condition, although in a significant section of the population it can become a killer. It is handed down genetically like certain forms of breast cancer.

Sickle cell anemia is overwhelmingly a condition found in Africans.

It's significance in the context of race relations in the USA is that a simple blood test can tell if you have the gene. It doesn't matter how "white" - to use Percy's disastrous language -a person may be. The presence of the sickle cell gene reveals a link to Africa.

My wife is proud of her African heritage as is our daughter and grand-daughter. I should point out that they are all fair skinned and it came as a surprise when results of test for a completely different condition revealed the African link.

Why should people in Africa have such a preponderance of the sickle cell gene? I gather it might confer some sort of protection from malaria but dont quote me on that.

How right you are, if evolution is to be believed we all originated out of Africa surely it must be possible for these genes to come to the fore naturally. The structure of life is still in its infancy as regards new discoveries being made by science, I am sure it will upset quite a few more with bigoted views in future years.

[rich]

My final word in sickle cell genes from the patient organization:

What is sickle cell trait?

"Sickle cell trait is a person who carries one sickle hemoglobin producing gene inherited from their parents and one normal hemoglobin gene. Normal hemoglobin is called type A. Sickle hemoglobin called S. Sickle cell trait is the presence of hemoglobin AS on the hemoglobin electrophoresis. This will NOT cause sickle cell disease."

So it's a marker! Not a full-fledged disease.

Percy, I fail to get the sense of your joke about my wife in your last post but then increasingly you are making less and less sense to everybody on the board so that's par for the course. One thing for sure, when it comes to matters racial you are creating more heat than light. I think you should go away for a bit. Cool down. Read some Franz Fanon....

[Bazeye]

I'd love to read Gene and Percys PMs they send to each other. The irony of this thread about immigration/racism/BNP etc is that on a Caithness forum, the two who are at each others throats are an Englishman and a Welshman. Love it.:lol:

[Gene Hunt]

I'd love to read Gene and Percys PMs they send to each other. The irony of this thread about immigration/racism/BNP etc is that on a Caithness forum, the two who are at each others throats are an Englishman and a Welshman. Love it.:lol:

Yeah its hilarious. Dont see the funny side myself as as the mentioned Welshman I have had to deal with racism from my wifes family first and then the same directed at my family by the type of slime that support the BNP. I didnt find it ironic or funny. Maybe though you could pop down to Casualty and laugh at all the injured as they come in, that would be a hoot for you I am sure.

After my daughter and then my wife read the full thread they have decided they dont want to visit Caithness. I disagree and have explained that the poster they found offensive does not reside in Caithness but as the fact I was going to visit was the reason I joined the forum I see no point in continuing to post, its been fun for the most part but I wont associate with the likes of Percy anymore. So to those I had a good rapport with I wish all the best, I personally dont have anything but a good impression of Caithness and I will pop up at some point in the future, hopefully I will meet some of the people I interacted with then. Take Care.

MODS .. please delete my account .. Thanks.

[Aaldtimer]

Ach GH, don't be leaving on account PT's abberations, don't give him the satisfaction! Stay with us Buddy and you're welcome any time you wish to visit!
Funny thing is, PT has aspirations to come and live in God's own country, but with his stated opinions on various subjects he'll be as welcome as the Big Yin would say, "A fart in a spacesuit"! ;)

[_Ju_]

Gene, I canna pm you. :~(

[hotrod4]

MODS .. please delete my account .. Thanks.

I thought gene Hunt was a "Mans man" and had things made of steel!!!.
The REAL gene hunt wouldnt run away with his tail between his legs, cmon gene show us what your made of!!!:lol:

[Boozeburglar]

I suppose some might be entertained reading Percy's posts on this kind of issue.

For me it is like watching the same episode of Eastenders over and over and over. All incongruous plot lines and ham fisted dialogue. Preposterous.

Worse than all of that though; they are monotonous and unimaginative.

As for the BNP, all the bad things said about them are true.

As a true libertarian I must welcome them with all their gay fetishes into the bosom of realpolitik; wherein they will be chewed up and spat out.

You have nothing to crow about Mr. Too Bogging.

The simple headed amongst you who voted for them and now think you have some support in your views because you have learned there are more like yourself, (or at least one such in each village, sat drooling by the well staring into the mud, or playing with a piece of mouldy cheese), will eventually come to realise all you have done is put a whoopsie on the European Parliament floor and now you got a little attention. The rest of us got over all that by the time we were three..

[crayola]

Yeah its hilarious. Dont see the funny side myself as as the mentioned Welshman I have had to deal with racism from my wifes family first and then the same directed at my family by the type of slime that support the BNP. I didnt find it ironic or funny. Maybe though you could pop down to Casualty and laugh at all the injured as they come in, that would be a hoot for you I am sure.

After my daughter and then my wife read the full thread they have decided they dont want to visit Caithness. I disagree and have explained that the poster they found offensive does not reside in Caithness but as the fact I was going to visit was the reason I joined the forum I see no point in continuing to post, its been fun for the most part but I wont associate with the likes of Percy anymore. So to those I had a good rapport with I wish all the best, I personally dont have anything but a good impression of Caithness and I will pop up at some point in the future, hopefully I will meet some of the people I interacted with then. Take Care.

MODS .. please delete my account .. Thanks.
Don't you dare leave us! You livened up this forum and it will be all the poorer without you.

[maverick]

Mr Hunt, if you were to leave now then you will have ceded to the BNP, you have to realise that you have a lot of support for your views here on the org.

[bekisman]

Maverick: "you have to realise that you have a lot of support for your views here on the org."

You most certainly do Gene !, don't let these xenophobic prats get you annoyed, I don't think PT will ever move anyway - come on up they are a great bunch here!

[Kenneth]

I think everyone should get a grip

[golach]

Sadly Percy has gone the way of his former persona, I will miss him :(, he was able to get my blood pressure going.

[rich]

I think you should stick around.

You can be an honorary Caithnessian.

A status to which Mr. Toboggan desperately aspires.

[Boozeburglar]

I think Percy is more interested in being ornery than honorary..

[bekisman]

Boozeburglar: "I think Percy is more interested in being ornery than honorary.. " that should be 'was' not 'is'; he's been banned! and guess what, this is my 1,000th post as well!

[Boozeburglar]

I am sure PT is still very much in the here and now, regardless of his status on this board, with Nick Griffin's appropriated “Keep Calm and Carry On" mantra ringing ever more loudly in his otherwise ineffectual lugs..

[Bazeye]

Maybe though you could pop down to Casualty and laugh at all the injured as they come in, that would be a hoot for you I am sure.

What was that all about?

[Kevin Milkins]

Boozeburglar: "I think Percy is more interested in being ornery than honorary.. " that should be 'was' not 'is'; he's been banned! and guess what, this is my 1,000th post as well!


Congratulations on your Ik post bekisman. :Razz

Because I have no interest in politics I missed this thread completly and only came to it because I saw PT was banned (and rightly so) and was nosey and needed to see what had kicked off.:eek:

It would be a shame if Gene Hunt decided to call it a day though as he seems like a good egg. :confused

[Coggy]

Everybody I know in Wick are racist.
So am I. And I live in lovley multicultural Birmingham.

[Aaldtimer]

Everybody I know in Wick are racist.
So am I. And I live in lovley multicultural Birmingham.

Careful biy, you might end up just like Percy![disgust]

[Fluff]

I am amazed this thread got this far without being locked or removed!

[tonkatojo]

What was that all about?


Probably a rebuke at your attempt at humour.

[Bazeye]

Probably a rebuke at your attempt at humour.
So what are you trying to say, that Gene jacked it in because I posted a lighthearted remark? After him and Percy were arguing the toss for God knows how long, I dont think so.

[Oddquine]

I am surprised Landmarker in the guise of Percy lasted as long here as he did the second time around. Did none of the mods notice he'd unbanned himself, given he made no attempt to disguise his opinions...or his posting style?

I'll be sorry to see Gene leave, and I'm rather ashamed that his family have been put off coming up to Caithness because of the utterances of those who deign to support the existence of the BNP, however they try to justify that support.

The Nazi Party in Germany started from small beginnings, and all it took was an orator like Hitler to bring them to power. I pray that the BNP never attracts an orator.

[Margaret M.]

I'll be sorry to see Gene leave, and I'm rather ashamed that his family have been put off coming up to Caithness because of the utterances of those who deign to support the existence of the BNP, however they try to justify that support.

Not wanting to visit Caithness because of comments made on one thread by someone who is not even from Caithness is just plain silly, in my opinion.

[Aaldtimer]

Not wanting to visit Caithness because of comments made on one thread by someone who is not even from Caithness is just plain silly, in my opinion.

Maybe you should re-read the GH's post on the matter!

..."After my daughter and then my wife read the full thread they have decided they dont want to visit Caithness. I disagree and have explained that the poster they found offensive does not reside in Caithness but as the fact I was going to visit was the reason I joined the forum I see no point in continuing to post, its been fun for the most part but I wont associate with the likes of Percy anymore. So to those I had a good rapport with I wish all the best, I personally dont have anything but a good impression of Caithness and I will pop up at some point in the future, hopefully I will meet some of the people I interacted with then. Take Care."...

I think GH may well be visiting Caithness in the future, sadly maybe not the .ORG. :confused

[Margaret M.]

Maybe you should re-read the GH's post on the matter!

..."After my daughter and then my wife read the full thread they have decided they dont want to visit Caithness.

It reads the same as before and I restate: Not wanting to visit Caithness because of comments made on one thread by someone who is not even from Caithness is just plain silly, in my opinion.

[Aaldtimer]

Selective reading Margaret...."I disagree and have explained that the poster they found offensive does not reside in Caithness"...not silly, just probably gut reaction at PT's comments..until explained. :)

[JAWS]

Sickle cell anemia is not an infectious disease.

It is a chronic condition, although in a significant section of the population it can become a killer. It is handed down genetically like certain forms of breast cancer.

Sickle cell anemia is overwhelmingly a condition found in Africans.

Why should people in Africa have such a preponderance of the sickle cell gene? I gather it might confer some sort of protection from malaria but dont quote me on that.
Rich, you are quite right about sickle cell being beneficial when it comes to malaria. I’m not certain exactly how it works but the sickle shape of the blood cell, I think it is the red cells, because it is an unusual shape prevents the particular mechanism causing malaria to take place.

I understand it is also quite common in people from the Indian Sub-continent for the same reason. Obviously people who cannot get malaria are more likely to survive than those who can and therefore are likely to die from the disease. Those who are protected by sickle cell are going to be more likely to pass the gene which causes it on to their children, only a certain proportion of which will inherit the gene. Like so many other such traits whether a child has sickle cell is down to pot luck. Parents could have three or four children, none of who have sickle cell or they could have only two and both inherit it.

I don’t know if there are any tests to check if a foetus has sickle cell as there are for other genetic illnesses but if there still isn’t then it’s long past time when great efforts were made to find one because I understand the condition can be quite debilitating and at times extemely painful.

[hotrod4]

I am amazed this thread got this far without being locked or removed!
It seems Ok to slag an orger off who cant come on to defend himself but if it was someone else it would be removed.
Obviously percy doesnt quite sit with the "in crowd" because he has a different point of view, does that remind you of anyone?
Oh yeah thats right the very people Percy was accused of being!!!!!
I think its amazing how he can be openly slagged on here but as soon as he did it they were running off to the powers that be complaining!!!!:eek:
I wonder who wil be next for the moderate politically correct right on crew?

[Niall Fernie]

This thread seems to have run its course and as hotrod4 quite rightly points out, percy/landmarker is no longer here to defend himself and even though he has been banned, it's still not very fair.

Hence, thread closed.