View Full Version : live dangerously - retire to caithness
I am interested to know if anybody has attempted to retire to Caithness.I imagine two reasons mitigating against that are climate and availability (or non- availability) of medical services. On the other hand property might be cheap. Comments please!
NB As a kid I remember the old men who sat outside the Thurso town square park (Sir Johns?). They had walrus moustaches and smoked bogey roll in short pipes. They had caps and collarless shirts, dark suits of some heaveight woolen material and on their feet they had black leather boots with tackets.
None of them looked overweight. They looked like a shrewd and canny section of the population.
I imagine they were succeeded by a generation of old men in shorty raincoats, suede shoes and Tyrolean style hats with a little feather. And cigarettes.
Who now sits on those benches? Aged hippies?
Could a seat on a bench be my fate?
Or should I head for a beach-front bar in Florida?
Guilty as charged. Neighbours also. Must admit I chose it for family reasons but yes, when I retired I moved up here. Nice having cheaper property so better house than I could ever have afforded down south but - probably will never be able to go back except to live in a shoebox. NHS is pretty dire although local doctors are good. People v. friendly, far more cultural activities than I expected - concerts, theatre, art etc. Shops a bit lacking but saves on the pension. Buses lovely. Trains pathetic. All my friends thought I was mad and brave. Don't know about the latter but I've always been the former and am used to moving around so it's becoming a habit. Will never be a true Caithnessian but do feel I have to protect/defend/advocate this lovely place.
Why restrict yourself to a single option, rich? Why not follow the lead of a (probably mythical) migratory bird and do winter in Florida and summer in Caithness? Property is cheap in the latter and not-too-expensive in the former (provided you avoid the areas dominated by the golf and big-boat set).
Hmm, can I really imagine you mingling with the touristic hoi polloi in Pizza Hut on the prom at Ft Myers Beach? Probably not. So you're destined for Thurso Beach and Sir John's Bench. If you work hard enough you could be the spiritual successor to my owld mate Mr D Dan.
landmarker
08-Mar-06, 20:16
Still contemplating a retirement in Caithness. Having only paid a flying visit a couple of holidays are needed up there, and soon.
North is a challenging direction to migrate given the damp, the cold and the winter dark , but a logical one for us. No contemplative fags in the town square for me though, I gave 'em up to give me a better than even chance of reaching retirement age.
The point about moving back (affording a house) is a good one, and one I'll bet some folk overlook.
Stargazer
08-Mar-06, 20:37
Lots of people retire to Caithness. Just depends on what you are looking for. If your choice is between Florida or Caithness I suspect you still have to narrow your options a bit.
I just wish I had found Caithness earlier. The nearest city was two hundred miles away which was a great recommendation, at least until Inverness got delusions of grandeur for a medium sized town.
If people want to go where it's sunny then just point me in the opposite direction.
Bingobabe
08-Mar-06, 20:57
I think one of the great things about caithness is everyone knows everyone and the property is far cheaper here than most places but i think that is about to drastically change. Due to all the new places being built ie homebase, newlook about time we had a decent clothes retailer in wick.Anyway caithness is a beautiful county and probarly a more ideal place to retire if your looking for a quiet retirement on the of side the weather aint that great sadly.
cuddlepop
08-Mar-06, 21:48
We didn't get the move we wanted but will be up there on holiday as much as possible.Property may be cheap just now but i have a sneaky feeling the same thing is going to happen to Caithness as what has happened to Skye,property prices now through the roof and locals forced out of the market.Incommers with money to spend from a house sale down south are the only ones that can afford property,which nine times out of ten is only used as a holiday home[evil]
Highland Council has put a clause in place that prohibits you buying your council house if you took the lease on after sept 2002.on Skye and other areas.
Local people had better make the most of what they have just now as i fear its all going to change faster than you realise,something has been planned for up north and as yet i cannot find out what,but something is coming:confused
I can't make up my mind if I'm mad or brave.
I do know it is a sharp learning curve.
Pity I had forgotten that I'd only ever spent the long hot summer holidays of childhood memory in Halkirk, and Caithness isn't like that all the time.........if it is at all anymore :Razz
Just over a year to go till retirement, and I've moved from a town with pavement ploughs and buses at the end of the road to spend this last week looking out at knee deep snow (I'm just wee)...and deciding to bide inside because I didn't feel like tackling the walk to the made up road.
The biggest problem I've found is getting my head round the fact that I need windproof waterproof jackets even if I'm only going into the garden (I'm not just wee, I'm skinny and leipit)..and even if the only wellies are leopardskin effect, and twee and a lot embarrassing..you wear them...........because they'll keep your feet dry!
The last was learned today when I went to the village in tidy go to village boots, and came home with feet that looked as if they'd been a week in the bath! :p
So what are house prices like? I guess it depends on whether or not you are in Thurso or Wick or the boonies. Wasn't it a Thurso man who said "Lybster would take the sting out of death"? Or was it some other place?
I'd say if you're going to do it, you'd be as well doing it fairly soon.....may well be worth running two mortgages in the short-term.
Prices are still a fair bit less than where I came from, and a heck of a lot less than further south, but they have crept up even in the year or so that I was looking.
The Caithness.org property pages give a fair idea of what is available, but I do know that my son sold his place in Wick last year for what would have been sweetie money for the equivalent in Inverness and pocket change for someone selling up a council house in the Home Counties.
We didn't get the move we wanted but will be up there on holiday as much as possible.Property may be cheap just now but i have a sneaky feeling the same thing is going to happen to Caithness as what has happened to Skye,property prices now through the roof and locals forced out of the market.Incommers with money to spend from a house sale down south are the only ones that can afford property,which nine times out of ten is only used as a holiday home[evil] Hmm, I've just looked at property prices in Caithness, Skye and Edinburgh. Skye seems to be more expensive than Caithness but they're both cheap by national standards. Prices in my part of Edinburgh are two or three times those in Skye, and three or four times those in Caithness - depending on exact location and the type of property.
Rich, look at the CSPC (http://www.caithnessproperty.co.uk/) or CCWS (http://www.caithness-business.co.uk/sale.php) websites for Caithness properties for sale.
Why should there be an imminent property boom in Caithness? I'm not convinced.
Why should there be an imminent property boom in Caithness? I'm not convinced.
Welcome home Rich. Nice to hear you back. There are no aged hippies sitting at the fountain.....yet. In fact the social scene around the square has become extinct in recent years. It was a hub of activity in years gone by and the social scene you remember seems to have become extinct, probably because of television and having to be home for meals on wheels.
I dont know why there should be, but theres been a building boom in Caithness since the turn of the century. No, thats wrong, the building trade in Caithness has enjoyed full employment since the early 70s.
The recent spate of housbuilding and building flats for private rent shows no signs of letting up. New supermarkets, luxury hotels and plans for 400 houses at Pennyland are just some of the plans for the area around Thurso.
Add to that all the plans for Wick and i would suggest all the old codgers with a glint of retirement in their eyes would do better to look West rather than to the "fountain" (thats what the area at the square is known as) for contemplation in their old age.
cuddlepop
09-Mar-06, 10:22
DrSzin ,if you look at salaries in Edinburgh then compare them to Skye or Caithness you will see they are significantly higher in Edinburgh.
There can be no comparison as there is none.Food,petrol,clothing etc is all cheaper than in our parts of the country.
You also have a greater choice of all services,bus ,rail, plane are available to you at a realistic price.
:confused:
Scotland
A nice country which is full of "white settlers" who move to scotland for cheap houses.
Billy Connolly
There are no aged hippies sitting at the fountain..... for contemplation in their old age.
Michty me Gleeber I thought ye were Thirsa's aging hippie, allegedly you have been seen slumped contemplating the universe often at the fountain :lol:
Cuddlepop wrote:
DrSzin ,if you look at salaries in Edinburgh then compare them to Skye or Caithness you will see they are significantly higher in Edinburgh.
I doubt they are significantly higher (i.e. generally 10% above Caithness for a comparable job?), they certainly are not 4 to 5 times higher.
crashbandicoot1979
09-Mar-06, 11:34
Something else to bear in mind - if you buy a property in Caithnes while you still live in Edinburgh, you'll be liable to pay 90% of the council tax for the Caithness property under the new "second homes" legislation.
DrSzin ,if you look at salaries in Edinburgh then compare them to Skye or Caithness you will see they are significantly higher in Edinburgh.
There can be no comparison as there is none.Food,petrol,clothing etc is all cheaper than in our parts of the country.
You also have a greater choice of all services,bus ,rail, plane are available to you at a realistic price.
:confused:We all know these things - but see comment on salaries below. Of course there can be comparison - I was comparing house prices not putative socio-economic causes thereof. :rolleyes:
You are, of course, absolutely correct about increases in house prices leading to locals being priced out of the market. But the primary cause is surely huge profits from house-price inflation in the south, not significantly-higher salaries down (t)here. Droves of people from elsewhere wouldn't be buying houses in Skye and elsewhere in the Highlands and Islands if they weren't still relatively cheap!
Most of the developed world thinks the UK populace is mad because of its obsession with investing its disposable income in bricks and mortar. As you say, the concomitant effect on house-price inflation skews the market in a ridiculous direction, and the upshot is that a significant fraction of the community can no longer afford to buy a decent house. It's not just locals in Skye that suffer, it's the same for young people everywhere, for those moving from the rental sector, and for people moving to the UK from other countries. There can even be problems for people coming here from rich countries such as the USA, Germany and France.
Cuddlepop wrote:
I doubt they are significantly higher (i.e. generally 10% above Caithness for a comparable job?), they certainly are not 4 to 5 times higher.Not only that, I read somewhere recently that a significant part of the Caithness economy is in the public sector (including publicly-funded industry such as Dounreay) wherein salaries are often governed by national agreements.
Salaries may be lower in Caithness than here, but house prices are so low (relatively speaking) that most employed house-owners will likely have a significantly-higher fraction of their income to spend on more-expensive items such as food, fuel, clothes, transport, etc.
I dont know why there should be, but theres been a building boom in Caithness since the turn of the century. No, thats wrong, the building trade in Caithness has enjoyed full employment since the early 70s.
The recent spate of housbuilding and building flats for private rent shows no signs of letting up. New supermarkets, luxury hotels and plans for 400 houses at Pennyland are just some of the plans for the area around Thurso.I think we're talking at cross purposes here. I was referring to a price boom, not a building one.
Anyway, a glut of new houses will surely absorb a lot of any inflationary pressure from supply and demand.
Having said all that, I still haven't heard any convincing reasons for the building boom in Caithness. Maybe your oft-criticised Council and Enterprise & Employment agencies are doing a much better job than is usually assumed?
porshiepoo
09-Mar-06, 11:56
The caithness climate isn't exactly what us southerners tend to think it is going to be like.
Generally speaking 'scotland' depicts images of snow, snow, snow, rain, wind, rain, snow, snow, snow - to the English. Obviously we do have snow in the winter but the summer months can be as nice as any in England. I have family and friends in England and I ask them regularly what the weathers like there (Just to compare) and more often than not, it's actually nicer here.
England may get slightly hotter summers but at least we actually have defined seasons up here, and when we do get an explosion of snow it's still relatively easy to get about.
All in all, caithness is the best place ever to live, and I hope that I never ever have to leave.
I moved up from Rochdale and found the climate broadly similar - much more sun but also much more wind.
The NHS is not good for dentistry but on the occasions when i needed it - several emergency stitches for the boys and me, one very serious life threatening emergency for me when they were absolutely brilliant, doctors appointments often for the same day or day after,
I loved it and miss miss miss it [mad]
Why settle for a stationary pied a terre when you can buy a Winabago and experience Skye in the Spring, Edinburgh for the Festival and Caithness for the rest of the year and provided you can anchor the thing down for the odd Caithness weather event you can also retreat inland to avoid Tsunamis, rising sea levels and other calamities!
I thought the Americans invented the senior hippy wagon culture which is probably just an echo of an earlier Highland life style, when you spread the old soot laden thatch roof on the vegetable plot in the Spring and moved out to the hillside sheiling with your livestock. This was a much celebrated annual event and a great source of poetry (much of it bawdy) and literature.
On an historical scale stationary settlement is probably a very recent development in human occupation of the planet. Bring back nomadism!
cuddlepop
09-Mar-06, 14:13
DrSzin,wish i could constuct a reply like yours.
dont fancy tutoring do you?
:eyes All too often Iknow what i want to say but cant constuct properly.....
Average take home pay on Skye is roughly£200 per week.Work is seasonally dependent,usually minimum wage.
Community Care Forum have identified as well as Education that Skye will be inhabited by either affulent elderly from down south ot state dependent.
Education role will half within the next ten years.
See what i mean i cant tie this toghether but verbally i could:eyes
Errogie, trailer homes tend to blow away in the wind which would certainly be a danger in Caithness. Also negotiating Berriedale (albeit a shadow of its former self) might be a tad hair raising for senior citizens. Also Winnebagos are not inexpensive. If one could pick up an abandoned manse with a vegetable garden it might work out cheaper. For the senior citizen an added thrill might be provided when a medivac helicopter arrives to whisk one off to Raigmore for the annual prostate exam. Or dont you have those things (either of them) in caithness....
DrSzin,wish i could constuct a reply like yours.
dont fancy tutoring do you?
:eyesAll too often Iknow what i want to say but cant constuct properly.....
Average take home pay on Skye is roughly£200 per week.Work is seasonally dependent,usually minimum wage.
Community Care Forum have identified as well as Education that Skye will be inhabited by either affulent elderly from down south ot state dependent.
Education role will half within the next ten years.
See what i mean i cant tie this toghether but verbally i could:eyesThat seems pretty clear to me. :)
I managed to find some information on earnings in Caithness and Sutherland (C&S) (http://www.hie.co.uk/case/earnings.html) from CASE data of April 2003. According to CASE, average earnings in C&S were about 19% lower than the UK average, and about 13% lower than the Scottish average. I would guess C&S earnings are more than 20% lower than the Edinburgh average. (Before anyone picks me up on it, I am led to believe that the CASE figures don't include comprehensive data from some sectors - such as farming/crofting?)
I couldn't find the equivalent data for Skye - the CASE webpages on the HIE website are much more informative than their Skye equivalents! But Skye's economy seems to be very different from that of Caithness. The latter has Dounreay for a start, but are there any Skye equivalents of employers such as Norfrost/Icetech, BT/Manpower, Caithness General, etc? Is the economy dominated by tourism and farming as I would guess? (I've been there a couple of times, but have never stayed long enough to find out much for myself - sorry.)
BTW the average price of a house in Edinburgh (http://property.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=483&id=266972006) is about £175,000, which is a lot less than the average house in my area, and obviously not three or four times the Caithness average.
Does anyone else remember the bandstand/gazebo that used to be in Sir John's Square, before it was replaced by the fountain? I'm sure Rich and Gleeber probably can! I think it was around the late 1960s that it was taken down. Always seemed a shame to me! It was an attractive Victorian-looking structure, that was was more pleasing to the eye than the fountain, in my opinion.
I can also remember the owld walrus-moustached mannies that Rich mentioned, tackety boots and all! They didn't have to go far to fill up their pipes, as there was a tobacconist a few yards from the benches. It was next to the Square, on Traill Street. I canna mind the name o' the shop, but it was later taken over by Budge the Drapers, if I remember correctly. What is there now?
This is interesting stuff. I live in deepest darkest Suffolk, but have a fair idea about caithness through my parents who retired up there with you all, and love it.
In terms of migration from the south, and England, I can see both your pro and anti viewpoints, but I'd suggest nothing new is happening, just that which has already occurred elsewhere. Take east anglia for instance....we benefit from 1hr proximity to London in my town, but one hour from here in Norfolk is not considered equally close by employers, and consequently is still pretty much rural, and agricultural. This means that many fewer youngsters can afford to buy in their home village in Suffolk than in Norfolk. Same problem you guys are having, and no, the wages aren't sufficiently greater for most of us to make any difference. Chances are that we end up spending far more per head to own a house, and renting can easily set you back £700 a month for a 3 bed semi, so no future in that either.
New money coming into the Caithness area must be a god send to some, but will also cause trouble for your younger generations. But even that is a short term situation. As new money arrives in Caithness, you'll find services and opportunities for business will also develop, eventually this works out positive for more of the community than just those that have property to dispose of.
Bear in mind that I really think those who trek to the far North to make their home have a little bit more of the spirit of adventure than those who settle on the south coast watching the dirty brown channel (No thats not on Sky after the watershed!). You are getting the most interesting retirement folk in the UK to deal with. Set in context of an already open and friendly populous, your situation will still be enviable in 20 years.
My ha'pennies worth.
We are from Englandshire - and have settled down to our retirement in Caithness with ease and a great deal of pleasure. The people are kind, fiendly and helpful.
The Medics are fine. THe council seem fine.
The climate is no worse or better than we are used to - but the winds are stronger.
I just hope we can enjoy what we have here for a few years.
It seems that this is as good a place as any to thank the people for making our move such a pleasure.;)
Thankyou all in Caithness
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