View Full Version : SNP to Ban Cheap Alcohol
Countryman
02-Mar-09, 17:27
Reported Today - any one any views -
Measures to tackle alcohol abuse by stopping cut-price offers have been outlined by the Scottish Government.
It has proposed a range of measures including the radical step of a minimum price per unit. It would be the first country in Europe to take the step.
The minority government said it also plans to ban discount deals on alcohol.
SNP ministers decided against raising the off-sales age limit to 21 - but will create powers to allow such curbs to be imposed on a local basis.
It will not stop alcohol abuse. Fact.
teenybash
02-Mar-09, 18:04
I can't help think it is a good idea. I know there will be those who disagree but, afterall something needs to be done sometimes, to protect people from themselves.
A lot of young people, at this moment in time are doing their bodies untold damage and storing up major health problems for themselves. If parents do not teach the risks of excess........then governments should limit alcohol access..... and pricing it beyond pockets is one way of doing it ....though education needs to be addressed also.
changilass
02-Mar-09, 18:11
What next ..... £20 for a packet of crisps, cos they make kids fat and that aint good for their health.
In countries where booze is expensive it aint stopped pickle heads, so why do the majority have to suffer for the minority, yet again. grrrrr
Maybe taking action against the shops and bars selliing it to underagers would be the way to go?
changilass
02-Mar-09, 18:15
Raising the age to 21 would have made that a lot easier for the shop keepers Blondie, it can be very hard to tell with some folks, specially if they are dolled up to the nines.
ShelleyCowie
02-Mar-09, 19:01
Raising the age to 21 would have made that a lot easier for the shop keepers Blondie, it can be very hard to tell with some folks, specially if they are dolled up to the nines.
Well they can wait til July!! [lol]
Thankfully they are not raising the age though...even though em...i dont drink!! :lol:
I think it may stop a few people who are doing the weekly shop, or buying it because it is cheap. But it is not addressing the real issue, which is as far as I am concerned a social problem.
Most people go out to drink, and there is a real social pressure to drink. There is also a big culture in this country where the only way you can relax is to have a drink.
Everyone likes and wants to see instant results, but we are not going to see a big change for years, generations even. We need to change how we think.
flowertot
02-Mar-09, 19:58
I am the government and you'll do as I say young man. Off you go now that your 18 years old to fight the Taliban in Afganistan but don't you dare stop for a tin o beer on the way you're too young! Absolute bulls**t that's what it is.
I always remember a teacher of mine saying years ago that "If alcohol was discovered today it would be illegal". It is so much a part of society now that this evil, legalised drug is accepted by almost all. AND of course it makes a few bob for the government via taxation.
The Loafer
I am the government and you'll do as I say young man. Off you go now that your 18 years old to fight the Taliban in Afganistan but don't you dare stop for a tin o beer on the way you're too young! Absolute bulls**t that's what it is.
Does an 18 year-old who has fought for his country deserve a drink more than any other 18 year-old? Does joining the army somehow change their physiology so that they are immune to the effects of alcohol?:confused Considering the effects that alcohol has on the young brain, I'd say there is more of a case against service men being under the influence of alcohol if we consider that they need all the coordination skills whilst in the care of sophisticated weaponry.
If this becomes law then I think if might have a minor effect on the problem especially as many are having to be very economic in their spending at the moment.
However, I agree with Fluff that the problem is a social one and until people recognise that alcohol is a dangerous, addictive substance and that it is not to be indulged in purely for it's effect which can be extremely varied according to the circumstances and the make up of the individual.
I am no saint, I enjoy a tipple and perhaps have over done it on a few occasions but not to the detriment of my health or hopefully those around me.
It was stated that any impact would be on the "Rot Gut" end of the market i.e. The really cheap fire-water used by people looking for maximum effect for a minimum outlay. Nicola Sturgeon said that a man could consume his 21 units, recommended for a weeks drinking, for an outlay of only £3.50. I have known that for an awful long time and mentioned it previously on this forum.
The majority of people in the UK consume alcohol to some extent and I would be willing to wager that millions of people consume a lot more than the recommended amount per week. Yet, to listen to some people, we are supposed to believe there is only a minority of problem drinkers. The UK is awash with drink and drink related problems. I watched a documentary recently about Night Police in Edinburgh and it was stated that 60% of all violent offences were alcohol related. I am aware of local kids as young as 13 who drink alcohol on Friday and Saturday nights on a regular basis. Some of my Son's classmates were regular clients in local bars at the age of 15-16. If a kid has £10 to spend, they will buy the maximum amount they can for that sum. We are not talking about fine claret sipping here. They are drinking to reach oblivion asap.
The age-old counter to this is "Why should sensible drinkers pay more because of problem drinkers?"
I would ask people to consider this:-
a) There are a lot more problem drinkers than you think.
b) There can be a fine line between social drinking and problem drinking.
c) If you are actually drinking as "sensibly" as you think you are, a price increase should not really be much of a factor.
I doubt if it will stop the really serious drinkers. The ones who should be penalised are those who sell to or buy for underage drinkers, but I agree it is not always easy to tell someones age. The people it will have the most effect on are those who drink sensibly, so why should they have to give up on offers. I think it is like the smoking ban - hasn't been given enough thought and "NO" I don't smoke, but will admit to the occasional whisky.
celtic lass
03-Mar-09, 00:03
i like a dram so i should suffer under the new laws not fair raise the age to 21 for the following ,smoking,drinking,driving,armed forces and sex and bring charges for ALL that brakes the age limits after all i cant have my dram on the cheap if goverment get thrir way huh
Shabbychic
03-Mar-09, 00:41
All that will happen is, enterprising individuals, who will do anything for a quick buck, will just drive down to England and load up a van. They can then sell it to the youngsters at a price cheaper than the shops, but enough to make a profit. Or are the government going to man the border?
In the end, it will mainly be the sensible drinkers who will end up paying the higher price.
butterfly
03-Mar-09, 00:46
even if the age limit is not raised to 21 ,in shops and stores if you have no photo id when buying alcohol you will be refused it on the grounds that you dont look 21.
All that will happen is, enterprising individuals, who will do anything for a quick buck, will just drive down to England and load up a van. They can then sell it to the youngsters at a price cheaper than the shops, but enough to make a profit. Or are the government going to man the border?
In the end, it will mainly be the sensible drinkers who will end up paying the higher price.
Youve got the mindset of an entrepeneur.:)
Shabbychic
03-Mar-09, 00:58
Youve got the mindset of an entrepeneur.:)
Know anyone selling a big van?;)
changilass
03-Mar-09, 01:16
Nah but I got a trailer and visit quite often lol
I'm inclined to think that the government is aiming its legislation at the underage drinker who can afford to get smashed on the cheap booze.
As far as I'm concerned, it is the parents of those underage drinkers who are to blame for the legislation.......so blame them and not the Government for doing what so many parents won't......trying to stop them getting into the Scottish drink culture at such a young age.
weeboyagee
03-Mar-09, 10:39
It was stated that any impact would be on the "Rot Gut" end of the market i.e. The really cheap fire-water used by people looking for maximum effect for a minimum outlay. Nicola Sturgeon said that a man could consume his 21 units, recommended for a weeks drinking, for an outlay of only £3.50. I have known that for an awful long time and mentioned it previously on this forum.
The majority of people in the UK consume alcohol to some extent and I would be willing to wager that millions of people consume a lot more than the recommended amount per week. Yet, to listen to some people, we are supposed to believe there is only a minority of problem drinkers. The UK is awash with drink and drink related problems. I watched a documentary recently about Night Police in Edinburgh and it was stated that 60% of all violent offences were alcohol related. I am aware of local kids as young as 13 who drink alcohol on Friday and Saturday nights on a regular basis. Some of my Son's classmates were regular clients in local bars at the age of 15-16. If a kid has £10 to spend, they will buy the maximum amount they can for that sum. We are not talking about fine claret sipping here. They are drinking to reach oblivion asap.
The age-old counter to this is "Why should sensible drinkers pay more because of problem drinkers?"
I would ask people to consider this:-
a) There are a lot more problem drinkers than you think.
b) There can be a fine line between social drinking and problem drinking.
c) If you are actually drinking as "sensibly" as you think you are, a price increase should not really be much of a factor.
Scorrie - I don't think anyone has said anything about the sensibility of your post - and no-one seems to have referred to the points you raise. I think your post is excellent. The policy has been taken out by the government to target the binge drinking younger folk.
When we were younger we did exectly as you said - we would by-pass the lagers and the bottles that everyone else bought - what did we buy? Old English Cider - 2 litres for 99p!!! For the obvious reason - more alcohol for less money - nothing to do with good value.
WBG :cool:
The majority of people in the UK consume alcohol to some extent and I would be willing to wager that millions of people consume a lot more than the recommended amount per week. Yet, to listen to some people, we are supposed to believe there is only a minority of problem drinkers. The UK is awash with drink and drink related problems. I watched a documentary recently about Night Police in Edinburgh and it was stated that 60% of all violent offences were alcohol related. I am aware of local kids as young as 13 who drink alcohol on Friday and Saturday nights on a regular basis. Some of my Son's classmates were regular clients in local bars at the age of 15-16. If a kid has £10 to spend, they will buy the maximum amount they can for that sum. We are not talking about fine claret sipping here. They are drinking to reach oblivion asap.
The age-old counter to this is "Why should sensible drinkers pay more because of problem drinkers?"
I would ask people to consider this:-
a) There are a lot more problem drinkers than you think.
b) There can be a fine line between social drinking and problem drinking.
c) If you are actually drinking as "sensibly" as you think you are, a price increase should not really be much of a factor.
Well said, scorrie.
In the early 70s, when I was first legally able to drink, it was an occasional pleasure. My OH would go out to the pub for a couple of pints once a week after playing football, and most (not all) weekends we bought ONE bottle of wine. That was what we could afford and it was a very small part of our lives. We didn't buy drink as part of our weekly grocery shopping -but then, there were no big supermarkets then.
Drinking vast quantities of alcohol was reserved for parties and weddings, and other special occasions ...and not being used to it, the subsequent hangover would put me right off booze for quite a while. I discovered it was actually as enjoyable, if not more so, NOT to get hammered, plastered, blootered, smashed...or any of the words folk use to say the main/only reason for a night out is to get falling down drunk.
More recently, there have been times in my life that I've drunk more than I should, due to stress and difficult circumstances, but been quite convinced I only had 'the odd drink'. Most people do underestimate how many units of alcohol they get through in a week.
Living alone it can be all too easy to drink too much so I don't drink at all now and I really don't miss it. I'm not against folk drinking tho' - I still think it can be a real life-enhancing pleasure, used in moderation, but there are lots of people I know who think they are 'sensible', 'moderate' drinkers, and it's as plain as the nose on your face that they drink too far much and just couldn't face the prospect of a life without alcohol. It's only 'not a problem' so long as they can afford to pay for the amount of booze they get through and it doesn't affect any work they do.
Sadly, it could be slowly killing them.:(
I wonder why so many people think this is a problem that only affects other people?
There was a time that all 3 of my kids drank far too much, over the legal drinking age of 18. Two of them ended up in A&E, one had to have surgery :(
All three are only occasional and moderate drinkers now, as they have much more important and interesting things to do with their lives than get drunk.
They've been fortunate tho' - they could have got into a lot of trouble.
If you ask them now why they did it, the answers are, because we could, because everyone else did, because it was so cheap.
Speaks for itself, really.
To the moderate drinkers who object to playing a little bit more for alcohol I'd say -just think how much of your taxes are currently going to pay for the policing and the NHS treatment that's required because of all this binge drinking among young people.
alanabain
03-Mar-09, 11:35
I wont be affected by this as i dont drink.
But i am only 22 and remember the lengths that we used to go to, to get a bottle of cider for a saturday night.
If the booze is getting dearer then they might just resort to stealing it. Kids are brave and if they are already drinking illegally then there no stopping them going to further lengths to get it if they want it.
Yes, supermarkets have the security devices but that is only on the expensive drinks like whisky and vodka.
the cheap ones dont.
This goes for both points of raising the age to 21 and the prices.
Shabbychic
03-Mar-09, 12:41
While I agree that alcohol abuse is a serious problem, not just in Scotland, until the true facts are used as guidelines, the problem will not be rectified. It's all well and good stating alcohol use in Scotland is 8th in the world, but are these really facts? The statistics are based on alcohol sales, but are things like tourists and the whisky industry for tourists taken into consideration for example?
Let's also look at some of the other statistics floating about:-
Women in the mid-thirties to forties are among those most at risk from serious drink-related disorders.
More women aged 55 and above are dying of alcohol-related diseases than any other age group.
The highest proportion of men drinking over 21 units a week are in the most affluent group.
A third of women in the most affluent group exceed the weekly guidelines.
The increase in the daily consumption of wine is one of the fastest growing problems.
So what is the answer to the problem? Putting prices up to stop the youngsters from drinking? That won't work as it doesn't stop them from buying drugs. They will get the money from somewhere.
I don't know what the answer is, and maybe increasing prices will help a bit, but as many who have the biggest problems are the most affluent, it's highly unlikely to effect them one iota.
Melancholy Man
03-Mar-09, 13:08
Welcome to the Calvinist Republic of Scotland. Scorrie's post was splendabulous, though.
I am the government and you'll do as I say young man. Off you go now that your 18 years old to fight the Taliban in Afganistan but don't you dare stop for a tin o beer on the way you're too young! Absolute bulls**t that's what it is.
You're getting two administrations mixed-up. Involvement in operations in Afghanistan are approved by the British Government at Westminster. The Scottish Executive (I refuse to call it a Government until it has handled the responsibility of tax-raising powers or civil responsibility for a few years which, on current monomaniacal pursuit of road-shows and self-aggrandizement, ain't likely) does not, and MacBlair (who opposed the 1999 bombing of Serbia and, as I recall, also opposed the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan) at Bute House will hob-nob with Khomenists and stress that all Scotland is closer to such reactionary thugs in foreign policy than Westminster, or seek out approval from such bastions of democracy and freedom as Zimbabwe or Burma for Scotland to receive observer status on the U.N. (goodness knows why she needs it).
I wont be affected by this as i dont drink.
But i am only 22 and remember the lengths that we used to go to, to get a bottle of cider for a saturday night.
If the booze is getting dearer then they might just resort to stealing it. Kids are brave and if they are already drinking illegally then there no stopping them going to further lengths to get it if they want it.
Yes, supermarkets have the security devices but that is only on the expensive drinks like whisky and vodka.
the cheap ones dont.
This goes for both points of raising the age to 21 and the prices.
If we are afraid of kids stealing booze do we then just decide to let them have it free in order to keep them happy?
If they resort to stealing, they will be punished suitably. Anyone addicted enough to resort to theft has clearly got a problem. A serious look should be taken at companies who tart their product up to look like soda pops in a sweetie shop. What next? Smirnoff Baby Milk?
Does an 18 year-old who has fought for his country deserve a drink more than any other 18 year-old? Does joining the army somehow change their physiology so that they are immune to the effects of alcohol?:confused Considering the effects that alcohol has on the young brain, I'd say there is more of a case against service men being under the influence of alcohol if we consider that they need all the coordination skills whilst in the care of sophisticated weaponry.
I think what flowertot meant was if they are old enough to Fight and possibly risk their life for their country then surely they should be able to have a drink as a RESPONSIBLE person, after al you have to be RESPONSIBLE to pick up a rifle and put a 5.56mm round between the eyes!!!!!![lol]
The bit I don't get is you can get married and have a baby at 16, married fine it's not the world's biggest responsibility, but having a baby is a huge responsibility yet the government find it more important to wait 5 years to have a drink??????? I think priorities are all wrong these days.
I am not saying 16 year old are bad parents by the way just pointing out the madness.
cuddlepop
03-Mar-09, 19:53
Kids manage to get their hands on alcohol regardless of the price.
I've been told they ask people who like a drink themselves , to get their drink for them and "one for you".
Pricing alcohol according to units in btls will not effect buckfast and the like,they actually become cheaper.:confused
now £6.64 price alteration £4.50
Bacardi breezers
now£3.78 ......................£1.76
I have know idea how much cannabis costs but if its cheaper then I guess you'll see drug abuse soar.:~(
alanabain
03-Mar-09, 19:55
If we are afraid of kids stealing booze do we then just decide to let them have it free in order to keep them happy?
If they resort to stealing, they will be punished suitably. Anyone addicted enough to resort to theft has clearly got a problem. A serious look should be taken at companies who tart their product up to look like soda pops in a sweetie shop. What next? Smirnoff Baby Milk?
Obviously we dont give it to them for free. We dont want them to have it atall. I am just stating that if a group of kids want to drink they will find some way of getting it... and if it is out of their price range of pocket money... how else are they going to get it.
I can hardly see them being addicted at their age. Peer pressure is a major issue with teenagers and this can result in many of them doing things that they dont really want to do and affect their lives in the long run.
Maybe proper education could help. Schools just told me the effects that will happen with the body and that was it. No one explained the emotional effects on them and others around them.
Drink can tear familys apart, ruin relationships, change lives for the worst. but what teenager thinks about that. They just worry about the sore head the next day.
scrumpysteve
03-Mar-09, 20:02
It will hardly make any difference raising the price. People will find a way around this, young or old. The young by spending more of their or their parents' cash or, god forbid, stealing it. For those who are older and maybe with families, then the families will suffer as the booze will come before the food.
They have exactly the same problem in Ireland yet the booze is far higher in price than here. E.G. a pint costs the equivalent of £4 and a 750ml bottle of Jameson's whiskey costs the equivalent of £24. All that will happen is that HM Revenue swell their coffers due to more tax paid by us sensible drinkers.
scrumpysteve
03-Mar-09, 20:04
Meant to say that I'm speaking from experience as until a year ago I was serving pints in an Irish bar, in Ireland of course, at €4.50 a go. Same old faces each night, same old drunks, loads of cash for drink, nowt for the household.
Obviously we dont give it to them for free. We dont want them to have it atall. I am just stating that if a group of kids want to drink they will find some way of getting it... and if it is out of their price range of pocket money... how else are they going to get it.
I can hardly see them being addicted at their age. Peer pressure is a major issue with teenagers and this can result in many of them doing things that they dont really want to do and affect their lives in the long run.
Maybe proper education could help. Schools just told me the effects that will happen with the body and that was it. No one explained the emotional effects on them and others around them.
Drink can tear familys apart, ruin relationships, change lives for the worst. but what teenager thinks about that. They just worry about the sore head the next day.
Your logic doesn't stack up here. If teenagers are desperate enough to resort to stealing alcohol, then they clearly have a problem. I don't think education is what is needed. The whole role of alcohol in society needs to be looked at and changed.
Meant to say that I'm speaking from experience as until a year ago I was serving pints in an Irish bar, in Ireland of course, at €4.50 a go. Same old faces each night, same old drunks, loads of cash for drink, nowt for the household.
That is a separate scenario. For many people, price increases have come too late and they are already addicted. Obviously they will sacrifice other areas of their budget in order to get their fix. My point is concerning "cheap as chips" booze for young, moderate and borderline drinkers, which may make it so easy for them to take the step from enjoyment to dependence.
At 40 pence per unit, most beers are going to end up cheaper per litre than they are now or is this the price that the manufacturer can sell it to the off-licences, shops and pubs?
I think the government have a plan to turn the UK into a nation of monks and nuns [lol]
At 40 pence per unit, most beers are going to end up cheaper per litre than they are now or is this the price that the manufacturer can sell it to the off-licences, shops and pubs?
I was in Lidl this evening and saw their 2 litre bottles of cider on sale. If I recall correctly, there are 11.2 units per bottle. Many ciders are stronger than this. Anyway, at 40p per unit, the bottle would cost £4.48 to purchase. The price is is selling for just now?
Ta-ra........£1.75
Happy supping!!
I was in Lidl this evening and saw their 2 litre bottles of cider on sale. If I recall correctly, there are 11.2 units per bottle. Many ciders are stronger than this. Anyway, at 40p per unit, the bottle would cost £4.48 to purchase. The price is is selling for just now?
Ta-ra........£1.75
Happy supping!!So now they'll be able to afford to buy stella, cos it's cheaper.
So now they'll be able to afford to buy stella, cos it's cheaper.
Based on current strength, Stella would be £4 for two litres. Perhaps that means a better drink for your money but it won't be the cheap fill for £3.50 that 4 litres of the cider currently buys.
Based on current strength, Stella would be £4 for two litres. Perhaps that means a better drink for your money but it won't be the cheap fill for £3.50 that 4 litres of the cider currently buys.It means the Winos have gone upmarket. Must be better than Hand gel and Orange juice although that particular cocktail is a whole lot cheaper providing they don't get caught.[lol]
alanabain
04-Mar-09, 08:04
Your logic doesn't stack up here. If teenagers are desperate enough to resort to stealing alcohol, then they clearly have a problem. I don't think education is what is needed. The whole role of alcohol in society needs to be looked at and changed.
They dont have to have a problem to resort to anything.
They will try anything once.... does examples of stealing, drugs and other sorts of crime not prove that enough. teenagers think they are invincible, well i used to think so. I grew up tho.
They need to be taught the concequences or they wont understand why the government is doing anything. they will just think that they are trying to ruin their fun.
also want to point out that i am not refering to all teenagers here.
They dont have to have a problem to resort to anything.
They will try anything once.... does examples of stealing, drugs and other sorts of crime not prove that enough. teenagers think they are invincible, well i used to think so. I grew up tho.
They need to be taught the concequences or they wont understand why the government is doing anything. they will just think that they are trying to ruin their fun.
also want to point out that i am not refering to all teenagers here.
You are not making any sense here. The thread is about the change in the price of alcohol and the effect/or lack thereof that this will cause. YOU stated that increasing the price of alcohol may make people resort to stealing it. Now you are trying to say that teenagers may just steal it anyway. That clearly indicates that the price is NOT a factor and you have defeated your own initial argument concerning the price rise.
If teenagers DO resort to stealing, they will be charged and punished. THAT will be what teaches them the consequences of their actions.
alanabain
04-Mar-09, 23:50
You are not making any sense here. The thread is about the change in the price of alcohol and the effect/or lack thereof that this will cause. YOU stated that increasing the price of alcohol may make people resort to stealing it. Now you are trying to say that teenagers may just steal it anyway. That clearly indicates that the price is NOT a factor and you have defeated your own initial argument concerning the price rise.
If teenagers DO resort to stealing, they will be charged and punished. THAT will be what teaches them the consequences of their actions.
The first post that i wrote was refering to the posts about how the change will clamp down on underage drinkers. And I stated that i feel that this will not affect the amount of teenage drinkers there are as they will resort to other means of getting it.
And i didnt say that they would steal it anyway, i was making a point that they will try anything once and this may be the direction they may go if they cant afford it.
The price increase may resolve many issues but might raise many more.
That is the point i was making
Whitewater
05-Mar-09, 00:32
They can make drink as expensive as they like, it will not stop the drinkers. There were more 'sheebeens' (spelling) in Wick when the place was dry than there are pubs in it now. The prohibition period in America bred more gangsters and crime than any other time, and booze was always available.
It is a very difficult thing to control, you can't do it by pricing it off the market or banning it. People can always make their own if they want it enough, it is not too difficult to produce.
What is needed is sensible education and control, but that will take a generation or two. The culture in GB is wrong, not just Scotland, here 90% of the drinkers just go to get blootered as quickly as possible, and the suppliers make it easy with the superlagers, alcopops and superstrength ciders, it is made too easy. Very few people in this country drink for pleasure, perhaps as we mature we become more sensible, but I drank too much as a youngster as well, but thankfully did not have enough money to fund the habit too often so I guess it never got a grip of me. Many youngsters now seem to be very well funded and expense is no problem for them.
The responsibility lies with parents, if they drink responsibly so will their children, but unfortuntely many parents are too fond of the booze themselves, if a youngster doesn't know any better they will just follow the example given to them
teenybash
05-Mar-09, 00:50
Problem drinkers, no matter their age will only ever stop or cut back, if they can, when they themselves want to.
We all agree that education in responsible drinking is needed but, that will take time....so in the meantime do we just let things carry on as they are without any attempts at solving some of the problems, which have been proposed by the Scottish Government.
Something has to be done now to try and stop our young people from destroying their health and their futures. Yes, it will mean that responsible social drinkers will also be hit as prices go up but, I wouldn't think to a great degree as they are social drinkers and are not dependant on alcohol to make them feel good or blot out things.
As already said a lot of young people go out to get totally smashed as quickly as possible.......is that social, is it responsible......no of course it isn't because it is harmful to themselves and harmful to society in general.
I personally would not relish the thought of going out for an evening and having to witness appalling drunken behaviour...so if I want to have a quiet drink, I probably would stay at home.therefore my social life is being affected and limited as are many others who feel the same as I.
Let's try prohibition. We'll all sign the pledge. That's bound to work. Make it illegal and everyone will spontaneously lose the desire to get smashed. They won't resort to drinking Brasso, or sniffing floor cleaner.
Or has that been tried before at some point? ;)
Let's try prohibition. We'll all sign the pledge. That's bound to work. Make it illegal and everyone will spontaneously lose the desire to get smashed. They won't resort to drinking Brasso, or sniffing floor cleaner.
Or has that been tried before at some point? ;)With prohibition comes illegal brewing.
They can make drink as expensive as they like, it will not stop the drinkers. There were more 'sheebeens' (spelling) in Wick when the place was dry than there are pubs in it now. The prohibition period in America bred more gangsters and crime than any other time, and booze was always available.
It is a very difficult thing to control, you can't do it by pricing it off the market or banning it. People can always make their own if they want it enough, it is not too difficult to produce.
What is needed is sensible education and control, but that will take a generation or two. The culture in GB is wrong, not just Scotland, here 90% of the drinkers just go to get blootered as quickly as possible, and the suppliers make it easy with the superlagers, alcopops and superstrength ciders, it is made too easy. Very few people in this country drink for pleasure, perhaps as we mature we become more sensible, but I drank too much as a youngster as well, but thankfully did not have enough money to fund the habit too often so I guess it never got a grip of me. Many youngsters now seem to be very well funded and expense is no problem for them.
The responsibility lies with parents, if they drink responsibly so will their children, but unfortuntely many parents are too fond of the booze themselves, if a youngster doesn't know any better they will just follow the example given to them
You need to define who "The Drinkers" are. Price increases will most certainly stop SOME drinkers. Not everyone is going to take the attitude:-
"Oh, drink is getting awfully expensive, time I was making my own still"
People who are addicted will resort to desperate measures but it does not stack up that everyone is going to be willing to break the law in order to have a dram. The way some folk are talking here, you would think beer was going up to £50 a pint or something. We are talking about a raising of the price to try to stop the farcical situation where a pint can of lager is half the price of a wee tin of Pepsi. That does not equate to the ludicrous comparison with prohibition, speak-easys and Homer Simpson's Beer Baron racket.
Many people talk about Education being the answer. I don't think that many teenage drinkers are ignorant of the effects of alcohol these days. They see their pop idols and role models with alcohol and drug problems. It is also pretty hard to miss the sight of people on the streets of Wick, or anywhere else, who demonstrate all too clearly what addiction to alcohol results in. Not a very glamourous image is it?
I would say that more of the problem is the amount of money that parents lavish on their kids these days. Bairns still in Primary School are running about with Mobile Phones, Laptops and Plasma Tellies. We give them everything we once dreamed of ourselves, before they have ever done a day's paid work. Is it any wonder they are bored and seek the thrill of the bottle?
We live in a society driven by consumerism, where we are supposed to work hard and party harder. Too much food, too much drink, go on treat yourself!!
My Parents used to save money to buy a few bottles for New Year. They liked a wee dram but couldn't afford to buy it other than special occasions. Guess what? They never stole to get drink and they never set up a still in the shed either. If drink had been as relatively cheap as it is today, I have no doubt they would have had a dram more often.
Finally, I can't let your glaring contradiction go amiss:-
You open with:-
"They can make drink as expensive as they like, it will not stop the drinkers."
Yet, lo and behold, later you say:-
"I drank too much as a youngster as well, but thankfully did not have enough money to fund the habit too often so I guess it never got a grip of me."
Tut-tut!!
The defence rest its case M'Lord ;)
I'd restrict alcohol sales to offies only - Oddbins, Threshers etc - as well as having a minimum price per unit.
Whitewater
05-Mar-09, 23:34
You need to define who "The Drinkers" are. Price increases will most certainly stop SOME drinkers. Not everyone is going to take the attitude:
Finally, I can't let your glaring contradiction go amiss:-
You open with:-
"They can make drink as expensive as they like, it will not stop the drinkers."
Yet, lo and behold, later you say:-
"I drank too much as a youngster as well, but thankfully did not have enough money to fund the habit too often so I guess it never got a grip of me."
Tut-tut!
The defence rest its case M'Lord ;)
I was talking about myself and my own past experience. Not eveybody can give up the habit.
''Drinkers'' are alcoholics, the people who can't give it up.
I passed an opinion based on the prohibition periods of the past and the problems it caused, pity you don't appear to be as hot on your history as you are on your sarcasm.
However, all this talk is hypothetical as the SNP have to get the Bill passed, and I don't think they will.
I was talking about myself and my own past experience. Not eveybody can give up the habit.
''Drinkers'' are alcoholics, the people who can't give it up.
I passed an opinion based on the prohibition periods of the past and the problems it caused, pity you don't appear to be as hot on your history as you are on your sarcasm.
However, all this talk is hypothetical as the SNP have to get the Bill passed, and I don't think they will.
Oh Dear, Despite the wee winking icon, someone takes it too seriously.
Nobody is saying that EVERYBODY can give up alcohol. I don't recall anyone saying that the proposal to increase the price of alcohol was expected to result in everyone giving up alcohol. There is a ground that no one seems to have embraced here, and that is more responsible drinking, based on considering whether your expenditure on alcohol is becoming too much when compared to your other outgoings.
Let's face the truth here. You posted a statement which declared that you avoided further alcohol consumption due to not being able to afford to drink it. That runs against your opinion that price increases have no relevance. Rather than admit that anomaly, you choose to attack my knowledge of History and accuse me of sarcasm. Let me tell you that I am well aware of my History and I'll challenge you to a contest, for money, on that subject, any day. You would be better equipped sticking to the topic in hand, rather than wandering onto prohibition, which has not been mentioned in any shape or form, by anyone other than those with fertile imaginations. Whether the Bill is passed or not is irrelevant to the discussion we are having. The original poster mentioned the proposal and asked for views. You are clearly clutching at a straw to save face on your totally illogical statement.
I'd restrict alcohol sales to offies only - Oddbins, Threshers etc - as well as having a minimum price per unit.
So what will pubs sell? :)
So what will pubs sell? :)
Crisps!!...
Crisps!!...
That's okay then. Can I have two pints of cheese & onion please. :)
Take away all the licenses from Supermarkets to sell Alchohol as all they do is add pennies to everyday items to compensate for 3 for £ ? offers on wine the huge enticing displays as you enter the premises tells it all
Beer I cannot comment I buy 1 Tin Sweetheart Stout 1 tin Cider a month all for Casseroles
In America and Canada you have to go to a specialised shop a liquor store to purchase Alcohol it is not sold in Supermarkets
I also think that the good old fashioned pub landlord watched his clientelle for drinking too much but people are not going to pubs anymore but the worst part is the kids going out sometimes 10 or 11 at night are so drunk before they leave the house tanked up on cheap drink often underage on money or drink provided by the parents a parent gives a youth on average £10 on a Friday night gosh can they get hammered for that
Take away all the licenses from Supermarkets to sell Alchohol as all they do is add pennies to everyday items to compensate for 3 for £ ? offers on wine the huge enticing displays as you enter the premises tells it all
Beer I cannot comment I buy 1 Tin Sweetheart Stout 1 tin Cider a month all for Casseroles
In America and Canada you have to go to a specialised shop a liquor store to purchase Alcohol it is not sold in Supermarkets
I also think that the good old fashioned pub landlord watched his clientelle for drinking too much but people are not going to pubs anymore but the worst part is the kids going out sometimes 10 or 11 at night are so drunk before they leave the house tanked up on cheap drink often underage on money or drink provided by the parents a parent gives a youth on average £10 on a Friday night gosh can they get hammered for thatYou can buy an assualt rifle in Walmart though.[lol]
You can buy an assualt rifle in Walmart though.[lol]
LOL TBH get the drift Im no as good as you at getting my point across [lol]
LOL TBH get the drift Im no as good as you at getting my point across [lol]
I am sure you would get yer point across if you went shoppin in Walmart for what TBH says they sell! :eek:
Drinkers'' are alcoholics, the people who can't give it up.
Sorry whitewater but not all drinkers are alcoholics,alcoholism is an addictive illness not always brought on by the amount imbibed although various other health problems can be such as liver damiage.
Perhaps we should be looking at what causes people to turn to alcohol,drugs etc rather than just trying to address the effects by what ever means.
In America and Canada you have to go to a specialised shop a liquor store to purchase Alcohol it is not sold in Supermarkets sorry anne x but ye dinna ken fit yer on aboot, i can buy every drink there is in ralph 's super market and it 's a dam site cheaper than here !!!
You can buy an assualt rifle in Walmart though.[lol]
wal mart dinna sell assualt rifle 's but some store 's sell shotgun ;s and ordinary rifle ;s . it depend 's where you are and how big the store is .
wal mart dinna sell assualt rifle 's but some store 's sell shotgun ;s and ordinary rifle ;s . it depend 's where you are and how big the store is .
Ye must be shopping in the wrong Wal Mart then.:lol:
sorry anne x but ye dinna ken fit yer on aboot, i can buy every drink there is in ralph 's super market and it 's a dam site cheaper than here !!!
Excuse me !!
I do not live in either but have visited often and in the the states in USA I went visited you could not purchase Alchohol in a Supermarket you had to visit a specialised store also in Canada maybe it just depends on where you live also I may add that the difference of 3 yrs in allowing them to buy alcohol makes a huge difference 21 as opposed to 18
I am sure you would get yer point across if you went shoppin in Walmart for what TBH says they sell! :eek:
Gosh I hope that point has never to be made in this country in Walmart or any other Supermarket
Excuse me !!
I do not live in either but have visited often and in the the states in USA I went visited you could not purchase Alchohol in a Supermarket you had to visit a specialised store also in Canada maybe it just depends on where you live also I may add that the difference of 3 yrs in allowing them to buy alcohol makes a huge difference 21 as opposed to 18
i'll excuse ye if ye tell me what ye 've done !!! ;)
i can tell ye that all e super markets near me sell alcohol and it was e same when i stayed in florida but they didna sell spirits there if i mind right . ny and illinois is e same . i only been til calgary and alberta in canada but i bought beer in grocery store there i 'm sure .
are ye sure ye were na watchin e movie ;s ??? :lol:
Ye must be shopping in the wrong Wal Mart then.:lol:
lol they dinna sell assualt rifle ;s in e ones near me , i can tell ye because i 've looked lol .
i'll excuse ye if ye tell me what ye 've done !!! ;)
i can tell ye that all e super markets near me sell alcohol and it was e same when i stayed in florida but they didna sell spirits there if i mind right . ny and illinois is e same . i only been til calgary and alberta in canada but i bought beer in grocery store there i 'm sure .
are ye sure ye were na watchin e movie ;s ??? :lol:
Er no just my own experience
which state 's were ye in then ???
which state 's were ye in then ???
I visited Tennesse Kentucky Missouri Illionis Texas the list goes on I canna mind just the places I went little rock Arkansas in Canada BC the rest I canna mind as I did a cruise from Vancouver to Alaska back to BC and on to Seattle
I have just done a google search on the subject and it depends on which state in the USA you live in for the purchase of Beers in Supermarkets
mostly red neck state 's then , what do you expect lol ?
you can def buy booze in supermarket 's in illinois , i done it a few week 's ago .
mostly red neck state 's then , what do you expect lol ?
you can def buy booze in supermarket 's in illinois , i done it a few week 's ago .
Ok it was years ago I can only speak from my own experiences ages ago and anyhow its getting away from the point of the thread no one is really interested where or where not I travelled :roll:
but I still think that the age limit of 21 is good and Liquor stores as opposed to Supermarkets for sellling booze as they have cut price bargains often very much below the asp and add the difference on to groceries
unless of course you buy your Wine on line where it is cheaper and better quality and value ;)
weeboyagee
08-Mar-09, 14:30
LCBO in Ontario for liquor, beer store for beer. Both were favourite haunts of mine last November, and you can't get it in the supermarket - pain in the butt - three places to do one shopping.
WBG :cool:
Ok it was years ago I can only speak from my own experiences ages ago and anyhow its getting away from the point of the thread no one is really interested where or where not I travelled :roll:
but I still think that the age limit of 21 is good and Liquor stores as opposed to Supermarkets for sellling booze as they have cut price bargains often very much below the asp and add the difference on to groceries
unless of course you buy your Wine on line where it is cheaper and better quality and value ;)in some state 's they sell booze in super market 's but seperated off and diffeerent check out 's . disna make much difference , just a pain in e ass .
some super market 's ar up their own jacksie wi it ., one o my mate 's got id 'ed at age 32 last month !!! :lol:
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