Scotland and alcohol misuse.

[teenybash]

Listening to the news Scotlands' drinking habits are not so good, for the individuals who drink to excess and the increasing costs to NHS, Police etc.
What do you think could/should be done, if anything, to help Scotland develop a healthier relationship with alcohol?

[davie]

It has to be an education thing - as in 'booze is bad for you'. I know its not that simple as booze in moderation is no big deal - its the traditional 'must get blitzed at every opportunity' mindset.
Its not only a Scottish problem btw, the yoof of our neighbours in England have the same problems.
Going back, the answer has to start with early education, these half baked ideas about seperate check-out queues for alchohol are pointless and banning the stuff in any way would make it even more desirable.
Its going to take a few generations to get the message over and so far no one has come up with the correct answer or the methodology to apply it.
Slightly off the point but visiting most European holiday spots is an embarrasment (sp?) due to the antics of drunken Brits and the media glorify this by making tv programmes on the subject - imbeciles.

[Venture]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7903584.stm

It seems Scotland now has the 8th highest consumption level of alcohol in the world. That dosen't surprise me at all. There used to be a time when people couldnt afford to drink. Now its too easily affordable particularly by the younger generation. Apart from banning it what is the answer?[disgust]

[joxville]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7903584.stm

It seems Scotland now has the 8th highest consumption level of alcohol in the world. That dosen't surprise me at all. There used to be a time when people couldnt afford to drink. Now its too easily affordable particularly by the younger generation. Apart from banning it what is the answer?[disgust]

Cans of lager=£5 each
Bottles of spirits=£50 each

You get my drift?

[butterfly]

Cans of lager=£5 each
Bottles of spirits=£50 each

You get my drift?

jox!!!thats not fair for the people who drink in moderation!

[davie]

Price increases are not the answer - thats been tried in some of the Scandinavian countries and they still have more than their share of piste artists.

[TRUCKER]

It may not be fair but the price of drink being so cheap does not help.

[Angela]

It might seem cruel, but a visit to the transplant/ liver ward in RIE could just do the trick. Spending a little time with patients who have end-stage liver failure - and they're getting younger all the time -might just make folk stop and think about the harm they're doing to their bodies.

Not everyone with this terminal illness will even be assessed for a transplant if their illness has been caused by alcohol misuse. For those who are, the assessment process is certainly not a walk in the park.

Then not everyone who's assessed will prove to be fit enough to undergo the operation (which is not without risks), so they won't be put on the waiting list.

And of course there just aren't enough livers to go round.

I spent a while on this ward as a patient -thankfully only with jaundice. It was not a pleasant place to be. I'd had no idea at all what liver disease could do to a person until I saw the consequences at first hand. :(

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Drink problem? Scotland? Just take a wander round any town or city on any weekend and you can easily see for yourself.

[cuddlepop]

I havent got any answere's but wish it'd never been invented.

My daughters poor friend is slowly watching alcohol kill her mother but the mother doesnt want to stop.
Drinking numbs her reality and gives the oblivion she craves.

Depression can be the reason many people turn to drink so maybe we need to have more "talking" centres rather than councillors.Group sessions rather than 1 to 1.Educating from primary school is another start.

give people a reason to stay sober.just having a family though is sometimes not eneogh.:~(

[joxville]

jox!!!thats not fair for the people who drink in moderation!

I know, but isn't it traditional in this country for the minority to spoil it for the majority of decent citizens and decide how they live their lives?

[Melancholy Man]

Even if it were that price, I'd still buy Joxie a drink. It's those dark Ossetian eyes.

[joxville]

Even if it were that price, I'd still buy Joxie a drink. It's those dark Ossetian eyes.

I hate to burst your bubble but I'm a bloke. Or have you looked at the 'My Avatar' thread from 3 weeks ago and still want to buy me a drink? :) http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=67271

[Melancholy Man]

#Psst!# I know you're a bloke. As long as you bring along a piccie of Katie, I'll still buy the drink.

[wifie]

Eugh bad pic in ma heid - you two and a pic of Katie - droolin and drinkin! :eek:
Hey MM where ya been hidin?

Like the idea of showin people what will happen if they abuse alcohol but I don't think it will help! Seen the new mothers in SCBU leavin the ward with their fags in hand whilst their child fights for breath!

[Melancholy Man]

I managed 54 days away, Wifie, thank you very much!

Anyone familiar with Georgian poetry? I could be the Caucasian beauty's knight in a panther skin.

[_Ju_]

Cans of lager=£5 each
Bottles of spirits=£50 each

You get my drift?

It is drifting yes: out to sea. The government earns too much on tax to give it up.....especially now!

I don't know the answer. I do know that other countries with much cheaper alcohol do not have the extent of the problem that happens here. I can speak from experience: we drink in Portugal, as wine producing region per excellence. Five litres of very good wine can be bought for the same price 750ml of the cheapest is here. The difference is when we drink - with a ( extended) meal. Because a bottle is opened does not mean it HAS to be finished. A good night out does not inevitably mean we got sozzled. Why there is this difference I do not know. I just hope I can impart to my son the difference.

[TheOldByre]

But is it REALLY any worse ? The media can get us into a moral panic on some of these things.

My Great Granny was an alchoholic, and my Grandfather died from too much to drink one night (not that that represents much of a statistical sample, but it shows it ain't a new phenomenon).

There are probably less bars in places like Wick now than their used to be. When I go into my local, it's much the same as it was 30 years ago. It still has the same number of bar flies who appear every night; it still has the crowd of youngsters on a Friday/Saturday night before they go into town. There's still a group of winos who go up Wick riverside most afternoons.

I'm not saying it's right to drink to excess, but I'm not convinced its become an epidemic.

[cuddlepop]

I think the stastics are right you just have to be up at casualty at the weekend and see the alcohol misuse for youself and we're only a wee village.:mad:

As to people drinking in pubs,its been reported that 36 are shutting every week.

Why pay £3 for a pint when you can buy almost 4 cans on a special offer.
More drinking is being carried out at home and we all know what "home" measures of alcohol are like.:eek:

[Melancholy Man]

Rest assured, Ju, it's easier to do so for one individual than a society. There is undoubtedly a cultural problem with the drink, but a majority still, in my experience, drinks moderately. The problem appears to come from a hard-core which, 20 or 30 years ago, would have tended towards excess and are now like the Vikings let into the piazza. Now they're encroaching on middle-class areas, so it looks worse.

Look at a Hogarth painting to see the effects gin and wattknot had on society 250 years ago.

[cuddlepop]

One of our local retired Gp's was suggesting that perhapse we should have a drink license just like you have a driving license.

Too much abuse and its taken from you,no license no alcohol.it would be chipped and you could only purchase what you were allowed that week even in pubs.

Not sure how easy this would be too implement.:confused

[TheOldByre]

Unfortunately we currently have too many people with NO driving licence who think they have a FULL drinking licence.

[davie]

Of course the majority still drink in moderation but Hogarths 'Gin Lane' is still the norm in some areas. There will always be a minority of heavy drinkers, of whatever age, but the problem appears to be with with the younger generation who get plastered at every opportunity, have no respect for themselves, other people, or property.
Apart from the education angle there has been a general breakdown in morality within the British Isles over the past few years and it will take a long time and new political leaders with new ideas to start making a difference.

[Bazeye]

I think the stastics are right you just have to be up at casualty at the weekend and see the alcohol misuse for youself and we're only a wee village.:mad:


Why pay £3 for a pint when you can buy almost 4 cans on a special offer.
:eek:

Is that the price there? Can get a pint of John Smiths or Worthies bitter here for £1 60 ~ £1 80. :)

[liz19]

jox!!!thats not fair for the people who drink in moderation!

possibly that's not the answer but what is the answer to our youth seem to think that it's ok to drink almost every day because they're bored and there's nothing else for them to do - and it is very cheap these days and our kids have more expenditure available to them. I think alcohol should be like cigarettes behind the counter out of reach preferably out of eye shot too - I don't know what the answer is but alcoholism is a huge problem

[cuddlepop]

Is that the price there? Can get a pint of John Smiths or Worthies bitter here for £1 60 ~ £1 80. :)


You paying for location here.:lol:

[The Pepsi Challenge]

I'm not saying it's right to drink to excess, but I'm not convinced its become an epidemic.

It's beyond an epidemic; it's a way of life; an integral part of Scottish culture.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/real-life-stories/2009/01/20/al-anon-helped-me-cope-with-my-alcoholic-husband-86908-21054962/

[percy toboggan]

It's not just the Scots.
I find I'm needing a couple of stiff ones before I can log on 'ere.


toboggan:currently reading 'Azincourt' by Bernard Cornwall - not that anyone gives a monkeys.

[Valerie Campbell]

My 2 grandfathers were alcoholics, my uncle is one, and my mother was a heavy drinker for a time. I enjoy a couple of glasses of wine or the odd whisky (and never with water!) but don't ever have more than two because of what it does. I like to know exactly what I'm doing. Once when I was a teenager I had a bottle of wine and was as sick as a pig and I never did it again, boring I know but everything in moderation and you'll enjoy it all the more.

[percy toboggan]

Is that the price there? Can get a pint of John Smiths or Worthies bitter here for £1 60 ~ £1 80. :)


At risk of generalising but.... the people drinking that kind of stuff are not the problem. Traditional male boozers who will sink three or four at the weekend with a fag or ten. They should not be villified...they are doing what there fathers did and their gran'fathers before them.

Surely better that they have more money in their pockets and no need to fear war on a large scale. If all were as healthy as the Government claims to want us to be the place would be overstocked with people. And then where would we be?

Government should not micro-manage lives. A modicum of education is better than trying to thrust messages down peoples throats in a hectoring manor. Drinking is a northern European trait...moderation is the key.
One can of bitter tonight and two glasses of red wine with dinner.(not tea - I'm feeling middle of the range tonight after reading some working class input)

[oldmarine]

I don't know the statistics for drunken driving here in Tucson, Arizona, USA. But I am certain they must be high with what I read in our local papers. Alcohol misuse can be a sad experience where ever one goes.

[JAWS]

Only eighth in the world? Come on everybody, repeat after me, “We must try harder. We must try harder. If we don’t try harder we will never reach number one!”

Many years ago, when Governments and the Health Service started to go on and on about the horrors of people smoking and demanding smokers should be made outcasts and shunned like some form of outrageous moral deviant I came to one conclusion.
The conclusion was that once they no longer had sufficient smokers to bully and browbeat they would move on and instigate a moral crusade agai8nst the drinking of alcohol.

The first thing you can dismiss is the sudden claims about alcohol related diseases leaping to the top of the list for hospital admissions. All that proves is that there has been a change in the manner used to collect the statistics.

All you do is add a box asking if the person has consumed alcohol in the previous 24 hours.
Answer, “Yes”. (even if it is no more than a small glass of wine)
Reason for hospital admission? Casualty struck by lightening.
For the purposes of the statistics, the casualty having drunk a small glass of wine in the previous 24 hours that would be listed as an "Alcohol Related Admission" for the stats..
Well, you can’t guarantee that if they hadn’t had the wine they might have been just that little bit more alert and have avoided being struck.

OK, so that’s an exaggeration but the system works in a very similar way. First you decide what you want to prove, then you set about creating the statistics which will give that answer.

It’s the second oldest trick in the book and is only just behind the oldest trick. When there are problems which are too difficult to solve, distract the public some scapegoats for them to vent their anger on.
“I can’t tell a lie, it were all them wot done it.”

Don’t believe me? After Adam ate the apple and God demanded to know what he had done, what did Adam say? “It was nae my fault, she made me do it.” And what did Eve say? “It was nae my fault, that slimy snake made me do it.”

Haven’t changed much, have we? Still busily searching for scapegoats to put the blame on when things go wrong.

[Whitewater]

Have to agree with you jaws, I'm surprised we only came 8th, we have to try harder. Somebody remarked about the cider drinkers being up Wick river in the afternoons, they are there from 9am with their 'Whitelightning', hail, rain or snow. But joking aside, it is a serious problem. I enjoy a drink, I like good malt whisky and red wine and enjoy them both in good genial company, but we drink responsibly. The 'Whitlightning' gang only want to get bluttered as soon and as quickly as possible and remain that way for the rest of the day, perhaps even their life. The other deadly drink is the superlagers that many of our young men and ladies go for at the weekends, again, another quick and deadly fix, same as the alcopops that have become so popular.
I can understand why many of the older generation become alcoholics, loss of job, partner, child, depression, the list can go on forever. What I find difficult to understand is the youngsters, they try it out, but many just don't know when to stop. I was no angel when I was young, I had a go at booze as well, friday night dances were never quite the same without a bottle of brown tawny topped up with a 1/4 bottle of whisky, but that was all we had money for until you got your next pay. We never seemed to bother with it any other time, too busy playing rugby and tennis. Friday night seemed to be the night, and if I was not too drunk, may have been lucky enough to walk some nice young girl home. But we had plenty of alcoholics in town then as well, meths accompanied by a boot polish sandwich seemed to be popular with one or two of the worthies in Thurso at that time.

[hotrod4]

My name is Hotrod4 and I am an Alcoholic!! (cue lots of clapping)[lol]

[George Brims]

There are probably less bars in places like Wick now than their used to be.
A LOT less. During the heyday of the herring fishing, Pultneytown had 250 licensed bars, and probably about as many unlicensed ones.

Thank you for your attention. You have now learned the only thing that has stuck in my head from Mr Swanson's history class in the late 1960s.

[Bazeye]

A LOT less. During the heyday of the herring fishing, Pultneytown had 250 licensed bars, and probably about as many unlicensed ones.

Sounds like a holiday heaven.:)