View Full Version : Drinking and Driving
Bad Manners
18-Dec-08, 12:23
I was watching a program on ITV about drinking and driving on it they carried out an experiment with six people to see if what they normally drink of a night would affect them. the results were amazing one driver had six pints of beer and another had eight Malibu and cokes etc when tested on a simulater their reactions were all over the place yet when they did the police breath test they passed. The presenter something Jones I forget the first name did an experiment on a track first lap one vodka and coke he was ok and passed the breath test two more vodka and coke and he was starting to wander around the track losing concentration but passed the breath test two more vodka's and he was noticably losing control and reaction times were all over the place yet he still passed the breath test.
Is it not time we had a zero limit on breath test the rule being you are not allowed to drink and drive not even one. this system works in other countries so why not here?
I am not anti drinking I am however anti drinking and driving.
I totally agree - drinking and driving for me is a total NO NO! Alcohol affects different people different ways and it depends what and when you have eaten - all sorts of factors are involved!
I was watching a program on ITV about drinking and driving on it they carried out an experiment with six people to see if what they normally drink of a night would affect them. the results were amazing one driver had six pints of beer and another had eight Malibu and cokes etc when tested on a simulater their reactions were all over the place yet when they did the police breath test they passed. The presenter something Jones I forget the first name did an experiment on a track first lap one vodka and coke he was ok and passed the breath test two more vodka and coke and he was starting to wander around the track losing concentration but passed the breath test two more vodka's and he was noticably losing control and reaction times were all over the place yet he still passed the breath test.
Is it not time we had a zero limit on breath test the rule being you are not allowed to drink and drive not even one. this system works in other countries so why not here?
I am not anti drinking I am however anti drinking and driving.
I was amazed too that the guy who had the 6 pints passed. I do think that the Police could do a lot more to combat the "morning after" such as offering breath tests at stations for those who think they might still be over the limit in the morning after a night out.
Unfortunately for me, I was stopped for speeding the morning after a night out and was flabbergasted when a subsequent breath test showed me nearly twice the limit- I felt absolutely fine. To be honest, I had been jumping into my car of a morning after a night out for years without realising I was over the limit. I have since bought a breath tester over the net to ensure the safety of myself and other road users and of course to keep hold of my licence. A sobering lesson learnt.
Got to agree with all, if you are driving Do Not Drink. I am for Zero tolerance in this issue.
Got to agree with all, if you are driving Do Not Drink. I am for Zero tolerance in this issue.
I also agree with this 100%. People must learn that if they are going to Drink then they just Dont Drive.
crashbandicoot1979
18-Dec-08, 13:20
Agree aswell. I know for myself, sometimes I can have a few drinks and feel OK but other times I'll have one and it goes straight to my head. So as far as I'm concerned if I've had a drink I simply don't risk it. As wifie says, all sorts of factors are involved, so as much as I hate the nanny state, I think zero tolerance towards drink driving is the safest way to go.
Agree aswell. I know for myself, sometimes I can have a few drinks and feel OK but other times I'll have one and it goes straight to my head. So as far as I'm concerned if I've had a drink I simply don't risk it. As wifie says, all sorts of factors are involved, so as much as I hate the nanny state, I think zero tolerance towards drink driving is the safest way to go.
I think we all agree that drink driving is totally unacceptable however a zero limit would be extremely hard to enforce. The human body produces a certain small amount of alcohol itself plus the likes of mouthwash etc will put you well over the limit if you are stopped within a short time of using it and if the result is over 50mg you have no right to a blood test.
Happy Rascal
18-Dec-08, 13:39
Got to agree with all, if you are driving Do Not Drink. I am for Zero tolerance in this issue.
I agree totally with you golach
Whilst I agree that drink driving is not acceptable and the police should do their upmost to catch those that do I don't agree with a zero limit as it could get totally out of hand. For instance if you were in a restaurant and had something in a cream and white wine sauce or trifle that had a drop of sherry and then drove home you would be a drink driver! As David pointed out things like mouthwash have a very low alcohol level. I do agree with everyone if I have a drink I never drive even after one it's just not worth the risk.
Tighsonas4
18-Dec-08, 13:56
Got to agree with all, if you are driving Do Not Drink. I am for Zero tolerance in this issue.
am in total agreement too its not safe tony
silverfox57
18-Dec-08, 15:07
to lose your job, or even worse kill some one just because
you take the risk of drink and driving,would be insane.
total a agree with zero tolerance,
Drinking and driving is a no-no you'll only spill it all over your dash.:lol:
Dont drink and drive smoke and fly!!!!!!![lol]
tbh its zero tolerance that way there is no "grey area".I think the majority would want that and actually do that but until the government see sense it wont happen.
By the way whats with all the driving threads? There was one about a zebra crossing and now drink driving, doesnt anybody like drivers anymore? ;)
Drinking and driving is a no-no you'll only spill it all over your dash.:lol:
Dont drink and drive smoke and fly!!!!!!![lol]
tbh its zero tolerance that way there is no "grey area".I think the majority would want that and actually do that but until the government see sense it wont happen.
By the way whats with all the driving threads? There was one about a zebra crossing and now drink driving, doesnt anybody like drivers anymore? ;)
So out would go sherry trifle at the Christmas dinner, out with the brandy butter as well-not to mention the various cough medicines that contain alcohol. Me thinks the government are seeing sense although I can see the need to reduce the limit. If there was a zero limit, I doubt the judicary system in this country would cope, whereas with the present limit there is no argument.
littleChick
18-Dec-08, 15:34
Hi
I'm with you all on this one, defo don't drink and drive, its a no, no, no.
You could not only lose your life but its the life of others that can be put in danger. Not to mention the loss of your license, job, friends and loads more....
This Christmas be safe and keep the car at home if your out for a night on the town.... Yeah I know taxi's can be expensive, but you can't put a price on a life..... :)
Bad Manners
18-Dec-08, 16:42
Drinking and driving is a no-no you'll only spill it all over your dash.:lol:
Dont drink and drive smoke and fly!!!!!!![lol]
tbh its zero tolerance that way there is no "grey area".I think the majority would want that and actually do that but until the government see sense it wont happen.
By the way whats with all the driving threads? There was one about a zebra crossing and now drink driving, doesnt anybody like drivers anymore? ;)
Its not that we have anything against drivers it is against those who ignore road signs,speed in built up areas,fail to secure children or adults in the rear seats.use mobile phones whilst driving and those than drive impared by alchol wheather legal limit or not. If you fall into one of the above you are not the driver you could be and you will almost certainly be breaking the law.
Hi
I'm with you all on this one, defo don't drink and drive, its a no, no, no.
You could not only lose your life but its the life of others that can be put in danger. Not to mention the loss of your license, job, friends and loads more....
This Christmas be safe and keep the car at home if your out for a night on the town.... Yeah I know taxi's can be expensive, but you can't put a price on a life..... :)
Well said littlechick! TBH though its usually somebody else that gets killed,the drunk driver always seems to walk away unscathed!:roll: Thats the saddest part about it :~( x
Its not that we have anything against drivers it is against those who ignore road signs,speed in built up areas,fail to secure children or adults in the rear seats.use mobile phones whilst driving and those than drive impared by alchol wheather legal limit or not. If you fall into one of the above you are not the driver you could be and you will almost certainly be breaking the law.
Whilst I agree with you it does seem to be a general "feel" going around that Drivers are satans spawn!!!![lol]
I'm really confused now, I understand that the UK legal driving limit is 0.08% so I tried out a blood alcohol calculator which after 1 bottle of 12% wine consumed over 3 hours (a gross over-estimate [lol]) stated my blood alcohol level would be 0.061%.
cuddlepop
18-Dec-08, 18:02
I've no time for people who get behind the wheel of a car after they've been drinking,any amount of alcohol.
As everyone has a % of alcohol in their blood a zero rate is unrealistic.
So why cant we have an alcohol rate that is the highest % of the "natural" amount?
I know this means we need to be aware of the alcohol in food,maybe it just shouldnt be added?
I've no time for people who get behind the wheel of a car after they've been drinking,any amount of alcohol.
As everyone has a % of alcohol in their blood a zero rate is unrealistic.
So why cant we have an alcohol rate that is the highest % of the "natural" amount?
I know this means we need to be aware of the alcohol in food,maybe it just shouldnt be added?
Not just food. There are plenty of other substances that will put you over a zero tolerance limit. I think the problem with the program last nite was that it may tempt some folks to think they can ingest the amount of alcohol shown on the programme and still be fit to drive. It failed to show over what time period the alcohol was consumed. Perhaps there is a Policeman out there who can comment as to why the Police do not promote a service to breath test "morning after" drivers who are unsure about their condition. They could surely provide a service like this in local shops etc if they really wanted to stamp this out? Many folks will feel perfectively fine to drive in the morning. The guy who drank the 6 pints and was still under the limit must have an exceptional liver function unless this was filmed over a very long time( his intake would have been at least 12 units ) So come on the Police, instead of nicking folks in the morn, provide facilities that will help folks take or leave the car.
saw the programme too, was surprised that the UK, Ireland and Malta had the highest level ppm in the blood in Europe - 'bout time we joined the rest?
Something's happening in Scotland at least!: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7788451.stm
Something's happening in Scotland at least!: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7788451.stm
Historically Scotland is always the first to try out these new ideas. IMHO this will make no difference to the hardened drink/driver. Okay there will be a rise in the number of convictions, but will this have any affect on those who consistently drive with 2-3 times the current limit? I would like to see more info on the numbers of drivers caught who are marginal and who would probably pass the current test if they were given 20 minutes or so. The Northern Constabulary have caught 13 drivers in the first week of their campaign-hardly a huge amount considering the resources they have thrown at this.
Kevin Milkins
18-Dec-08, 20:50
I watched the programme last night as well and I could not believe how inconsistant the breath test is.:eek:
To watch Gethin Jones get drunk before your eyes and loose his ability to drive safely and still pass a roadside breath test worries me slightly.:confused
young_fishin_neep
18-Dec-08, 22:30
I never saw the programme, was gutted i missed it to be honest.
it just shows how much people can actualy drink and what states they can get themselves into and still be aloud behind the wheel
im not a driver but as far as im concerned you shouldnt alow alcohol to pass your lips if you are driving
kazzii xxxx
I watched the programme last night as well and I could not believe how inconsistant the breath test is.:eek:
To watch Gethin Jones get drunk before your eyes and loose his ability to drive safely and still pass a roadside breath test worries me slightly.:confused
The only true test is a blood test- Currently under uk law you are only elegible for this if your reading is under 50mg. I don't see many folks asking to raise this limit though.
The only true test is a blood test- Currently under uk law you are only elegible for this if your reading is under 50mg. I don't see many folks asking to raise this limit though.
Thinking about it, why shouldn't people be given the right to ask for a blood test no matter what their breath test is? I don't for one minute condone DD, but given that you get a crimanal record for 22yrs and it remains on your licence for 11 years-it would seem sensible to give someone the chance to defend themselves. Remember, after a slug of mouthwash, your reading 5 mins later would be well over 50mg.
Sorry david can't agree there, you gargle with mouthwash and rinse after, you don't drink it.
As regards drink driving I too am against it, watched the programme and was horrified by the attitude and lack of knowledge of many of the people.
Never saw the program but i have very strong views on drink driving, there should be zero tolerance for anyone found to be over the legal limit, Norway has the right idea, if you are caught over the legal limit your licence is immediately suspended pending trial, no exception!
Thinking about it, why shouldn't people be given the right to ask for a blood test no matter what their breath test is? I don't for one minute condone DD, but given that you get a crimanal record for 22yrs and it remains on your licence for 11 years-it would seem sensible to give someone the chance to defend themselves. Remember, after a slug of mouthwash, your reading 5 mins later would be well over 50mg.
You are wrong David, 22yrs is way off the mark, a drink driving conviction stays on your criminal record for 5 years if you are fined for the offence, 7 years for imprisonment up to 6 months and 10 years for imprisonment between 6 months and 2 1/2 years, and like all prison sentences anything above a 2 1/2 sentence can never become spent.
It will stay on your Driving license for 11 years but will/should only affect your insurance premiums for 5 years.
Maybe if it was zero tolerance we'd know the score. Like I'll have one glass of red wine if I have to drive. But what's a glass of red wine? 1 unit? 2 units? It doesn't tell me on the glass or on one of those rinky-dink little bottles you get in pubs. And it depends if you've eaten/not eaten/tired/not tired etc. HELP.................................
rockchick
19-Dec-08, 04:05
I'm really confused now, I understand that the UK legal driving limit is 0.08% so I tried out a blood alcohol calculator which after 1 bottle of 12% wine consumed over 3 hours (a gross over-estimate [lol]) stated my blood alcohol level would be 0.061%.
I plugged it in my favourite calculator (http://www.rupissed.com ) and it came up with 0.11% for 750ml of 12% after 3 hours
You are wrong David, 22yrs is way off the mark, a drink driving conviction stays on your criminal record for 5 years if you are fined for the offence, 7 years for imprisonment up to 6 months and 10 years for imprisonment between 6 months and 2 1/2 years, and like all prison sentences anything above a 2 1/2 sentence can never become spent.
It will stay on your Driving license for 11 years but will/should only affect your insurance premiums for 5 years.
I think you need to check your facts. IMO it remains on your licence for a period of 11 years and at least 20 years on your criminal record. After 5 years you are considered rehabilated and do not have to declare the conviction for insurance purposes after this period.
Sorry david can't agree there, you gargle with mouthwash and rinse after, you don't drink it.
As regards drink driving I too am against it, watched the programme and was horrified by the attitude and lack of knowledge of many of the people.
The point being a breath test is just that. That's why I am advocating blood tests for all suspects regardless of the breath test. Believe me, I have my own breath tester and can assure you that gargling mouthwash and then rinsing will still put you over the limit if you happen to be stopped in the first 10 or so minutes after. The only true test of blood/alcohol content is a blood test. This is probably one of the reasons the Government will not impose a zero limit.
Never saw the program but i have very strong views on drink driving, there should be zero tolerance for anyone found to be over the legal limit, Norway has the right idea, if you are caught over the legal limit your licence is immediately suspended pending trial, no exception!
We do have zero tolerance if you are caught over the limit. You WILL lose your licence for a minimum of 12 months-no exception. By using Norways example are you suggesting we have a "guilty until proven innocent" judiciary system in this country?
By using Norways example are you suggesting we have a "guilty until proven innocent" judiciary system in this country?
Why not adopt Norway's system, where driving and drinking are concerned?
It may save a few lives in the long run.
Why not adopt Norway's system, where driving and drinking are concerned?
It may save a few lives in the long run.
Lets just lock everyone up pending trial. This may save a few lifes too.
Lets just lock everyone up pending trial. This may save a few lifes too.
Now that's being ridiculous, why do you need to lock them up, take away the drink driving offenders vehicle, much easier to keep, no need to feed and provide heat and warmth for a motor vehicle.
I think you need to check your facts. IMO it remains on your licence for a period of 11 years and at least 20 years on your criminal record. After 5 years you are considered rehabilated and do not have to declare the conviction for insurance purposes after this period.
So you tell me to check my facts and then follow it up with 'in my opinion', how exactly can you be sure of the facts if it's just your opinion, maybe you should take a look at this website...for the facts, i can only assume that you are talking about a period of time outside of the "The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974" where your conviction has become "spent", well to the best of my knowledge once you have been convicted of an offence in a court of law it stays on your record for life, after the rehabilitation period set out by the "The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974" it will have no affect on your daily life, but it was always be there on record.
http://www.drinkdriving.org/faq.php#convictionlength
So you tell me to check my facts and then follow it up with 'in my opinion', how exactly can you be sure of the facts if it's just your opinion, maybe you should take a look at this website...for the facts, i can only assume that you are talking about a period of time outside of the "The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974" where your conviction has become "spent", well to the best of my knowledge once you have been convicted of an offence in a court of law it stays on your record for life, after the rehabilitation period set out by the "The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974" it will have no affect on your daily life, but it was always be there on record.
http://www.drinkdriving.org/faq.php#convictionlength
So in other words are you suggesting that a conviction for DD will remain on your criminal record for life and not the 20 years I alluded to?
Lets just lock everyone up pending trial. This may save a few lifes too.
They do lock people up pending trial if they are considered to be a danger to the public or a particular person, it's called being on 'Remand' pending trial, anyone who is caught drink driving has to be considered a danger to the public, they have their right to a day in court to defend themselves but in that interim time they should have their licence suspended.
So in other words are you suggesting that a conviction for DD will remain on your criminal record for life and not the 20 years I alluded to?
David, in your post where you mentioned getting a criminal record for 22yrs it seemed like you thought this was the length of time you thought a conviction had any bearing on your daily life, you made no mention of the "The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974" which is the imporatant piece of legislation regarding most convictions.
I do not have the facts bout how long a conviction stays noted on your record after it has become spent, i said to the best of my knowledge it is for life, i base that opinion on observations from court reports where it has been reported that an individual appearing in front of the court has an appalling record of offending that stretches back 30yrs or more, now many of those convictions will be 'spent' under the "The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974" but are obviously still recorded on that persons criminal record.
I feel like i'm banging my head against a brick wall trying to get you to understand this.
David, in your post where you mentioned getting a criminal record for 22yrs it seemed like you thought this was the length of time you thought a conviction had any bearing on your daily life, you made no mention of the "The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974" which is the imporatant piece of legislation regarding most convictions.
I do not have the facts bout how long a conviction stays noted on your record after it has become spent, i said to the best of my knowledge it is for life, i base that opinion on observations from court reports where it has been reported that an individual appearing in front of the court has an appalling record of offending that stretches back 30yrs or more, now many of those convictions will be 'spent' under the "The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974" but are obviously still recorded on that persons criminal record
I feel like i'm banging my head against a brick wall trying to get you to understand this.
I made no reference to how having a criminal record for 22 years would affect your daily life. I was just trying to make the point that if caught for DD you will have a criminal record for a very long time. This could affect your ability to get a visa to travel-certainely to the US. I hope this clarifys matters.
I made no reference to how having a criminal record for 22 years would affect your daily life. I was just trying to make the point that if caught for DD you will have a criminal record for a very long time. This could affect your ability to get a visa to travel-certainely to the US. I hope this clarifys matters.
You're quite correct there, the "The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974" does not apply to US Visa law, any conviction, spent or otherwise must be declared, i'm still puzzled as to where you got the 22yrs from though?, i've done a little research this morning and everything i have seen states that a criminal conviction is recorded against you for life, there are no seperate rules regarding Drink Driving, it's a criminal conviction and stays with you for life.
You're quite correct there, the "The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974" does not apply to US Visa law, any conviction, spent or otherwise must be declared, i'm still puzzled as to where you got the 22yrs from though?, i've done a little research this morning and everything i have seen states that a criminal conviction is recorded against you for life, there are no seperate rules regarding Drink Driving, it's a criminal conviction and stays with you for life.
Funnily enough I think I got the 22 years from a worthy down the pub!
Hopefully anyone who is thinking of just chancing it and hoping they'll not get caught, will change their minds after viewing this.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SGIlUUsh0cU
Understand there have been quite a few folk lifted for DD in the Western Isles this past few days - many of them (understand figure to be just under 10 last report) 40 - 70 year old women doing their shopping and delivering presents during the day or going to pick up family who have had a few over the odds then phone to get a lift rather than pay for a taxi themselves.
Certainly makes me think differently about 'my image' of the standard drink driver - I certainly do not think of a granny driving around doing shopping and present delivery with the grandchildren as high on the list of folk to be very wary.
'My image of a DD' is the person who has obvious been out for the night, cannot be bothered to leave the car as it will be inconvenient in the morning and thinks still fit to drive, or the morning after a skinful when they think they are ok after sleeping for 4 hours thinking a sleep will have got rid of all the excess alcohol they have consumed.
I believe there should be a much lower level of alcohol in blood than there is at the moment, a nil reading is impossible due to the fact we all produce alcohol in our bodies.
Bobinovich
21-Dec-08, 12:08
I don't really understand why there has to be alcohol in mouthwash etc. at all :eek: - surely there must be a non-alcoholic alternative!
I didn't see the programme but am very concerned that anyone drinking the amounts indicated here can still pass a breath test.
I'd be for zero tolerance above the highest naturally occuring figures - if you are out for a meal then whether you've had a few drinks, or even just a sherry trifle for dessert, then you know you've consumed alcohol and that's that.
I don't really understand why there has to be alcohol in mouthwash etc. at all :eek: - surely there must be a non-alcoholic alternative!
I didn't see the programme but am very concerned that anyone drinking the amounts indicated here can still pass a breath test.
I'd be for zero tolerance above the highest naturally occuring figures - if you are out for a meal then whether you've had a few drinks, or even just a sherry trifle for dessert, then you know you've consumed alcohol and that's that.
Not makin light here of a serious subject but amazed Bob you can get pudding in most threads! [lol]
Bobinovich
21-Dec-08, 18:32
Oh Wifie I thought you knew me batter than that! Where theres food being discussed it's never a trifling matter with me as you know I pan cake light work of most desserts.
It's a sherryous problem and my specialist is aware of my plight - however cases like mine are simply his bread & butter.
I'm ashamed to say that I sometimes use the profiteroles from my business to fund my habit, such is my crumbling willpower.
I try not to sponge off other people though, but I have been known to jam someone elses pudding in my mouth in desperation.
I've been banoffeed out of many restaurants for filoching too many sweets from the tablet but I just say cobblers to them. They're obviously don't understand the plight of an addict.
Anyway, I've waffled on enough but at least others are aware of my nature of my problem now.
Merry Cheescake and a Happy Yule Log to you all :D
* Like Wifie this is just light hearted banter & not meant to detract from the seriousness of the thread subject
Jelly Good Bob! Merry Crispmas and a Snappy New Year to you too! ;) Thank you serious thread users for this interuption! :D
teenybash
21-Dec-08, 23:36
Drinking and Driving....Zero Tolerance!!!
brokencross
23-Dec-08, 17:31
You are the judge in a drink driving case. Here are the bare facts of a case.
The man who comes before you has no driving licence, in fact has never had one, he is an unisured driver, has 3 previous drink driving offences and happens to be blind in one eye.
While nearly twice over the legal limit for driving he causes a serious crash.
In this crash the 2 people in the other car are both killed.
What sort of sentence would you give if you were the judge?
Considering the drivers record I was amazed to see the sentence.
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/2008/12/23/double-death-crash-driver-jailed-for-eight-years-84229-22537381/
Bad Manners
23-Dec-08, 18:50
You are the judge in a drink driving case. Here are the bare facts of a case.
The man who comes before you has no driving licence, in fact has never had one, he is an unisured driver, has 3 previous drink driving offences and happens to be blind in one eye.
While nearly twice over the legal limit for driving he causes a serious crash.
In this crash the 2 people in the other car are both killed.
What sort of sentence would you give if you were the judge?
Considering the drivers record I was amazed to see the sentence.
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/2008/12/23/double-death-crash-driver-jailed-for-eight-years-84229-22537381/
Should have been locked up with no chance of parole. not a lot more you can say he is a repeat offender. with no remorse for what he has done
He will probably go straight back to drink driving as soon as he gets out. He`s done it for years.(Leopards don`t change thier spots)Despite what he says he will do it again.
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.