View Full Version : Should we name and shame?
highlander
17-Oct-08, 22:42
Every week we read in the local papers about vandalism, it's just not right that these vandals just get a rap on the knuckles and probably stick two fingers up at the pathetic punishment they may get, now before the human rights brigade get on thier soap boxes that its not right to name and shame these mindless thugs, we are all paying for thier little mindless adventures with having to pay through our noses in insurance policys, do you think its about time we adopted this stance.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1078124/Shaming-Wild-Runt-gang-Child-thugs-unmasked-given-ASBOs-reign-terror.html
teenybash
17-Oct-08, 23:24
Yes, I think thugs should be named and shamed. The structures of society are being demolished because we, the adults tip toe round for fear we offend and trying to be oh so politically correct.
If parents can't control and teach their kids right from wrong and how to respect, then society must..councils, social work, police and the courts will have to do do the job for them.
Whitewater
17-Oct-08, 23:57
Yes they should all be named and shamed. They know that they can't be touched and they use that at every opportunity. Unfortunately our society is controlled by the PC brigade. Result being that the country is going to the dogs, 9 times out of 10 the criminals are treated better than their victims. As a nation we are far too soft, we are already loosing many of our traditions and Christain values simply because the "do gooders" are frightened of offending our imigrants. I don't mind the imigrants but we should not be changing our values to accomodate them.
Sorry for going off on a tangent and having a rant, but I'm really becoming peed off with the PC brigade, what they are doing, and what they stand for.
Tighsonas4
18-Oct-08, 10:43
having spoken to one of the pc brigade as you call them and reporting an incident
in the course of conversation there hands are being tied by the legislation that is being laid down
these kids are as well genned as up as they are on whatTHEY can an cannot do
the trouble is this country is going down the shoot sad times tony
Kevin Milkins
18-Oct-08, 11:26
I think its fair to say that the majority of people like to live in a crime free and clean society.
I see in the Groat that vandals have damaged the flower displays in the town only days after being put out for the public to enjoy over the winter months.
I know at first hand the ammount of effort that goes into making these displays for the majority of society to enjoy and I do hope this type of setback does not affect the good will of the hard working people that do the displays.
In years gone by we would have had a set of stocks in the square so we could pelt such offenders with rotten fruit.
I wonder sometimes if we are moving forward or backwards as a society
teenybash
18-Oct-08, 12:17
This may slightly digress from the subject but I feel it is relavant in a way.
The couple in Saudi who were found guilty of 'Naughty' behaviour on the beach were found guilty of breaking the law of of land they were in.
Saudi being mainly Muslim their laws are based on the countries beliefs.
This country is based on Christian values and our laws should reflect this clearly and not become diluted through our growing immigrant population or those who do not subscribe to Christaian beliefs.......Perhaps now is the time to tighten our laws to save our societies from further desintegration...................Just a thought.:)
Tighsonas4
18-Oct-08, 12:41
this country WASbased on christian values but alas no longer it seems that anything goes today sad tony
Everyone needs boundaries, otherwise they will expand their bad behaviour with disastrous results. Where will it all end up - anarchy across the country? The police will be unable to cope, even more so than now.
Certainly name and shame. Alas a lot of the names we would mention on here would regard this as bit of hero worship. A sign of the times we live in .[disgust][disgust][disgust]
highlander
19-Oct-08, 00:13
I can see where u are coming from Bonami, i too thought they might use it as a trophy, then thought, this all stems from home. I remember reading how the person who fought to get the belt banned from school now totally regrets it and know's he was now wrong. I know if any of my children had got into trouble and the thought of being shown up as being a unresponsible parent would have me hanging my head in shame. Something has to be done, it's just not right that they can frighten people in thier own homes and destroy folks belongings who have worked hard to get.
fingalmacool
19-Oct-08, 00:16
Certainly name and shame. Alas a lot of the names we would mention on here would regard this as bit of hero worship. A sign of the times we live in .[disgust][disgust][disgust]
Those that can read of course, and that wont be many?
How do you combat the mentality of the little thugs portrayed in my local paper, this is just giving them street cred[disgust] I personally think the Newspaper went too far
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Career-neds-Inside-the-minds.4592631.jp
How do you combat the mentality of the little thugs portrayed in my local paper, this is just giving them street cred[disgust] I personally think the Newspaper went too far
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Career-neds-Inside-the-minds.4592631.jp
I hope Sean, one of the gang members, does get out of that scene and gets a job. However I don't think his choice of career is normally associated with 'hardmen'. Quote: "I've got a lot of mates in jail at the moment. I don't want to end up doing the same because of the bairn. I want to get into hairdressing."
I couldn't help see the funny side of that.[lol]
Here's the gen on 'Sean'.
Sean admits fighting in the street is a regular part of his life. He talks casually about other youths carrying knives and indulging in shocking acts of violence.
"Sometimes we've fallen out with other gangs. They're slagging us off or think they can take us, but if you can't settle it with fists, don't try and settle it at all," he says.
"You get boys carry who knives but we only want a square go. And we don't stamp on a boy's head when they go down. When they go down, that's it. There are some rules to it."
Just two months away from his 19th birthday, Sean – who was thrown out of Leith Academy in second year for fighting – is unemployed and living with his pregnant girlfriend at his mother's home in Lochend.
He met his girlfriend, Jackie, eight months ago at Edinburgh Sheriff Court when each was accompanying a friend to a hearing. Their baby is due in April.
Sean knows that other teenagers associated with the Capital's street gangs have ended up within a few years serving long prison sentences – such as the 11-year terms handed to would-be drug gang hitmen Marc Webley and James Tant – while some have been maimed, or even stabbed to death in the street, like Liam Melvin, 17. Yet he talks in awed tones about some of the city's most notorious drug dealers. He is quick to brag of his own criminal record and shrugs off the punishment he received.
"I was taking Ecstasy and drinking whisky last July when I thought it would be funny to call Edinburgh Airport and tell them there was a bomb on a plane. They traced the call and I was charged with terrorism. I ended up only getting tagged for a year."
He talks of getting out before it's too late: "I've got a lot of mates in jail at the moment. I don't want to end up doing the same because of the bairn. I want to get into hairdressing."I know I shouldn't but I laughed when he said he wanted to give up his life of drink, drugs and violence to go into hairdressing!
Moi x
PS Looks like joxville beat me to it, I'm not the only one with an evil sense of humour. :lol:
"A study published yesterday found that territorial behaviour by teenage gangs could be a "coping mechanism" for young people living in poverty"
The above is a quote from the story linked by golach in his local paper.
Rather than finding such a disagreeable young man as Seans ambition to be a hairdresser funny, I find it sad. The young guy is crying out to be normal but because of a society that has marked him in some way or another, his coping mechanisms turn against the society that marks him. Its not funny to waken up every day with an invisible chip on your shoulder, knowing your different but yearning to be accepted. What kind of society do we live in that creates a subculture of kids prepared to maime or kill each other?
No, naming and shaming is not the way forward. I dunno what the answers are but I do know that everyones life is a co creation. It takes 2 to tango.
The couple in Saudi who were found guilty of 'Naughty' behaviour on the beach were found guilty of breaking the law of of land they were in.
Saudi being mainly Muslim their laws are based on the countries beliefs.
This country is based on Christian values and our laws should reflect this clearly and not become diluted through our growing immigrant population or those who do not subscribe to Christaian beliefs.......Perhaps now is the time to tighten our laws to save our societies from further desintegration...................Just a thought.:)
What they were doing in a public place would be illegal practically everywhere irrespective of the religion of that country, aside from being socially offensive.
There is this growing group of people who feel entitled to do what they want, when they want and as they want, without any consideration for the rest of us who have to live around them and with the consequences of what they do. This is especially evident when watching some on their holidays. Away from home, unknown and probably never going back to that place again, people choose to behave in a way that most wouldn't be able to contemplate without huge shame. Now people are choosing those behaviours in their own communities. Even animals don't "dirty their own nest". What is making people behave like this? My opinion: loss of shame. So would naming and shaming solve the problem? Probably not, because they have no shame at all.
The scum that are terrorising our communities need a swift size 10 up the rear.
Thats the way things were dealt with by the polis years ago and it taught you a lesson.
Gone are the times when your parents would be ashamed at the polis turning up at your door, now its a right of passgae and taken as a badge of merit.
We are becoming too soft and the numpties know it and are abusing it to the hilt.
They should be named,shamed, hung drawan and quartered and we as citizens should do our upmost to report the scum that are blighting our once pleasant land.
Rather than finding such a disagreeable young man as Seans ambition to be a hairdresser funny, I find it sad. The young guy is crying out to be normal but because of a society that has marked him in some way or another, his coping mechanisms turn against the society that marks him. Its not funny to waken up every day with an invisible chip on your shoulder, knowing your different but yearning to be accepted. What kind of society do we live in that creates a subculture of kids prepared to maime or kill each other?
I am sorry Gleeber when I read Sean's statement to the reporter, I laughed out loud, was the Evening News reporter naive, or what? Anything those little neds said has to be taken with a large pinch of salt. They loved the publicity, it gives them street cred and thats all they want. Why should they be allowed to take one of Edinburgh's busiest and historical streets over as their personal patch to scare and beat anyone that takes their fancy?
And oh dear, the little darlings were complaining that the Police were harrasing them and watching them on CCTV all the time, stopping them from having fun in Burger King and other establishments in that area.........Why Not!!! Our Streets need to be rid off these towrags!!!!
silverfox57
19-Oct-08, 13:10
Agree with hotrod4. As a young boy was caught on handle bars of bike.
Police gave me a slap and told my father. When I got home, got severe warning.
So I never went two on a bike again. PC does not work today.
Fear of parents and police no longer exists.
<P>It is long past time that the punishment was made to fit the crime in this country. Put the police back on the streets and get rid of all the paperwork they have to do.</P>
<P>It might also be a good idea to get rid of the Politically Correct brigade and the Human Rights crowd. The sympathy is all for the perpetrator and none for the victim.</P>
<P>It is long past time that the punishment was made to fit the crime in this country. Put the police back on the streets and get rid of all the paperwork they have to do.</P>
<P>It might also be a good idea to get rid of the Politically Correct brigade and the Human Rights crowd. The sympathy is all for the perpetrator and none for the victim.</P>
I would be quite proud to bear the label of a politically correct human rights liberal minded so and so. My full sympathy goes to any victim of any ctime 100%. However there's another part of me aware of certain behavioural problems most criminally minded yobs have to contend with. As a liberal minded so and so, I would rather people like Sean and his buddies were transformed into respectable members of society long before they get to the stage they are at now. That's the challenge for society. Our society breeds these yobs. I believe we have the 'technology' to reform Sean long before he has developed such a destructive character.
I don't believe we have the will though.
Just a little snippet in tonight's Evening News about our little feral rats in Princes Street, the punishment was not hard enough IMO. This thug is the same Sean Weir, that told the reporter that he wanted to be a Hairdresser in an earlier article posted here....as we say down here Aye Right!!!
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/39Feral39-gang-members-jailed-for.4603120.jp
Not an appropriate punnishment at all.
In addition if the article is to be believed, they have arrested them, they have cctv and they still don't have enough give them an Asbo?
These guys are not bothered by asbos or 6 month in the nick although I suspect there will be times during their incarnation when a more human side will come to the surface. It's unlikely anyone will see the tears though because these guys have to put a show on just to protect themselves from the prejudices they have grown up with. They are totally desensitised to their environment and the relationship they have with others mirrors a deeper relationship they have with themselves.
No one in their short lives has reached them. It's unlikely anyone has bothered trying.
The human personality is fraught with dangers. Even those of us who would proclaim ourselves as normal are aware of the lurking demons at every corner. Mostly we get over it although it can take time and sometimes time even is not enough to overcome the energy of whizzing thoughts and jumbled emotions.
Sean wants to be a hairdresser. I believe him. I imagine in his darkest hours he has raised an image of normality where he belongs and someone needs him and respects him. The power of the prejudice doesn't allow him to fantasise too long though.
No one would be surprised if Sean ends up killing someone sometime. He is capable of anything. He is a product of our society.
Once, he was an innocent baby.
it's just not right that these vandals just get a rap on the knuckles and probably stick two fingers up at the pathetic punishment they may get [...] do you think its about time we adopted this stance.
I'm really not sure that this is intended as a punishment for the children involved at all. Given that they 'stick two fingers up' to the law, are they really going to give two hoots that their photos are in the paper? I doubt it.
No, I think this is aimed squarely at embarrassing the parents into action.
Of course, though the kids involved may not care about this now, they may live to regret it in the future if they ever actually try to turn their lives around. It's a shame that a less permanent method couldn't have been found to kick the parents into meeting their obligations... one that wouldn't be trailing their kids around for the rest of their lives.
This country is based on Christian values and our laws should reflect this clearly and not become diluted through our growing immigrant population or those who do not subscribe to Christaian beliefs.......Perhaps now is the time to tighten our laws to save our societies from further desintegration.
As an atheist, I really don't understand people who need to have their morality dictated to them by a deity. Are you so lacking in empathy that you don't know right from wrong without a mystical being scratching out instructions on some rocks for you?
Aaldtimer
21-Oct-08, 03:09
As an atheist, I really don't understand people who need to have their morality dictated to them by a deity. Are you so lacking in empathy that you don't know right from wrong without a mystical being scratching out instructions on some rocks for you?
As an Atheist, I recognise Jesus Christ as one of the finest teachers in history, who never claimed divinity, and his code of life is one i have always tried to practice.
Rather than finding such a disagreeable young man as Seans ambition to be a hairdresser funny, I find it sad. The young guy is crying out to be normal but because of a society that has marked him in some way or another, his coping mechanisms turn against the society that marks him. Its not funny to waken up every day with an invisible chip on your shoulder, knowing your different but yearning to be accepted.It's black humour, gleeber. Would you prefer if I'd said 'ironic'?
Moi x
Every week we read in the local papers about vandalism, it's just not right that these vandals just get a rap on the knuckles and probably stick two fingers up at the pathetic punishment they may get, now before the human rights brigade get on thier soap boxes that its not right to name and shame these mindless thugs, we are all paying for thier little mindless adventures with having to pay through our noses in insurance policys, do you think its about time we adopted this stance.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1078124/Shaming-Wild-Runt-gang-Child-thugs-unmasked-given-ASBOs-reign-terror.html
Quite up there with you on this one, Highlander. As for the 'rights' brigade... I never hear them protesting to the thugs and vandals about the rights of the public - or don't we have any?!!
It's black humour, gleeber. Would you prefer if I'd said 'ironic'?
Moi x
Why should I have a preference for irony? Black humours ok with me. I wasnt having a go at you. I was stating how In felt.
Why should I have a preference for irony? Black humours ok with me. I wasnt having a go at you. I was stating how In felt.Ok, thanks for the clarification.
Moi x
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