View Full Version : Primary school free meals - good idea or not?
Murdina Bug
02-Oct-08, 09:47
I heard on the news this morning that Primary 1-3 are to get free school meals. Great news I thought, until I read this (from BBC news):
'All pupils will receive free meals in the first three years of primary school, the Scottish Government has announced. The move follows a year-long £5m pilot scheme in Glasgow, West Dunbartonshire, East Ayrshire, Fife and the Borders. That scheme, which involved 35,000 pupils, saw the take-up of school meals rise from 53% to 75%.
However, the government will not be allocating extra money to fund the roll-out of the initiative. It expects councils to find the money from the funding settlement already agreed. The government said the free school meals would be introduced from August 2010.'
Is that not just a bit two-faced? We, the Govt. will make this wonderful offer and take all the glory, BUT we are not giving you, the Council any money to fund this initiative AND we are likely to cut your budget year on year.... What if the Council can't afford it? Will they be forced to provide this at the expense of other services or will it just lead to disparity between Council areas? If you live in Highland you might get a sandwich but in Aberdeen you will only get the bread?!
I thought this was a good initiative but not now. I know that this country is all PC about everyone being equal but maybe it is time to go back to just giving this sort of thing to those who genuinely can not afford it. There would not need to be any social exclusion involved as with smart swipe cards for payment etc no-one need know who is getting free and who isn't.
The idea was great in theory but if the council are not getting extra funds then we the taxpayer will end up paying for them anyway. I like the idea as it will mean more children being encouraged to eat healthily which can only be a good thing.
I heard on the news this morning that Primary 1-3 are to get free school meals. Great news I thought, until I read this (from BBC news):
'All pupils will receive free meals in the first three years of primary school, the Scottish Government has announced. The move follows a year-long £5m pilot scheme in Glasgow, West Dunbartonshire, East Ayrshire, Fife and the Borders. That scheme, which involved 35,000 pupils, saw the take-up of school meals rise from 53% to 75%.
However, the government will not be allocating extra money to fund the roll-out of the initiative. It expects councils to find the money from the funding settlement already agreed. The government said the free school meals would be introduced from August 2010.'
Is that not just a bit two-faced? We, the Govt. will make this wonderful offer and take all the glory, BUT we are not giving you, the Council any money to fund this initiative AND we are likely to cut your budget year on year.... What if the Council can't afford it? Will they be forced to provide this at the expense of other services or will it just lead to disparity between Council areas? If you live in Highland you might get a sandwich but in Aberdeen you will only get the bread?!
I thought this was a good initiative but not now. I know that this country is all PC about everyone being equal but maybe it is time to go back to just giving this sort of thing to those who genuinely can not afford it. There would not need to be any social exclusion involved as with smart swipe cards for payment etc no-one need know who is getting free and who isn't.
I completely agree, i currently pay for my son to have school diners everyday and i'm in the fortunate position that i can afford this expense. however i would rather see kids who cannot afford it to be given the free meals and those who can to pay for them, rather than the council having to cut back on other services in order to fund this initiative!
Well Highland Council won't have to worry about the added expense. All they have to do is change the school menus from English to Gaelic then the money needed will mysteriously appear from nowhere.;)
Melancholy Man
02-Oct-08, 20:42
This is another wonderful sounding egalitarian idea, but where will the money come from? Real suggestions, not when we get all the money we deserve from Westminster for being Scottish.
In principle, I do have objections. I'd much rather see any money invested into better meals, and exemptions offered on a case-by-case basis. When Jamie Oliver tried getting rid of turkey twisters, I recall parents were passing chips and hamburgers through the railings.
Another stupid idea - they want to educate the children to eat a proper diet. However this can only be done successfully if the parents play their part. If the pupils are given fruit and told the benefits, then the aim will not be achieved if the parents buy crisps and junk and will not buy fruit - I am not a health freak - I have just finished a double chocolate muffin - but junk in MODERATION is OK in my opinion.
Where is all the money coming from - I understand the council tax, and what will they cut to meet this expense?
Personally I would prefer school meals to be subsidised more - not free, and spend more money on adequate resources and books for the schools. Whats the point of having all your vitamins, if when you go to school you have no textbooks, draughty windows, out of date IT etc!
northener
02-Oct-08, 21:27
.......... Whats the point of having all your vitamins, if when you go to school you have no textbooks, draughty windows, out of date IT etc!
I'd rather see a healthy kid that was capable of using limited facilities to their full extent rather that some obese, pizza-stuffing, vitamin deficient thing that wheezes and snuffles when it waddles away from its state of the art school PC that it has been sat at in a hermetically sealed overheated box.......
Melancholy Man
02-Oct-08, 21:29
No, Northerner, you can't claim free meals. Your size, strength and utterly ruthlessness will upset the parents.
northener
02-Oct-08, 21:37
No, Northerner, you can't claim free meals. Your size, strength and utterly ruthlessness will upset the parents.
Egad, I've been sussed.
I nearly choked on my pie when I read that.
Westsider3
03-Oct-08, 07:57
When my child goes to school, I will be making her a pack lunch and she will have her healthy (and usually traditional!) home cooked meal when she comes home. That way I will know exactly what she is eating. Although I am sure on the odd occasion she may have a school lunch.
I think it is absolutely ridiculous to be funding school lunches when many schools cannot fully provide the resources required to teach the children with. It's another crazy idea that has not been thought through in my opinion.
It actually worked out really well down here in Glasgow. Tis just a shame that it as come to an end....
It actually worked out really well down here in Glasgow. Tis just a shame that it as come to an end....
I thought that the point of this thread was to say that the concept was going to be brought in all over Scotland....with Glasgow having the worst poverty levels in Scotland (according to the Daily Record) it would seem prudent to keep the service going especially in Glasgow.
changilass
03-Oct-08, 10:02
I like the idea. I would go a step further and make school meals compulsory.
I would reduce the amount of money folks get in child benefit to pay for the school meals. This would ensure that all kids got at least one decent meal a day. Why should folks that have chosen not to have kids have to pay for their food by way of council tax.
I would also make it compulsory that pupils couldn't leave the premises without a parental note till end of day. Why should a parent that has taken a child to school be liable if that child then leaves the school.
I like the idea. I would go a step further and make school meals compulsory.
I would reduce the amount of money folks get in child benefit to pay for the school meals. This would ensure that all kids got at least one decent meal a day. Why should folks that have chosen not to have kids have to pay for their food by way of council tax.
I would also make it compulsory that pupils couldn't leave the premises without a parental note till end of day. Why should a parent that has taken a child to school be liable if that child then leaves the school.
Not everyone wants there child to stay for school lunches, some parents want they child to come home for lunch, just so they know they are eating it and I'm sure any parent would make sure that there children do have a Decent Meals, As for parents who take there children to school of course they are liable for there children its called parenting....Why lumber it on someone else..... School's are responsible for the children when they are there but they are not there parents...... I am always there for my children not matter if I take them to school or pick them up.... I feel by your message that once you get them to school etc it a case of don't come back or bother me till its time for home.........
changilass
03-Oct-08, 10:32
Twaddle, you have no idea of how I feel when I drop my child off at schoool.
I suggest you get your 'feelings' tested, they don't seem to be in correct working order.
There was a case of a woman who got taken to court cos her child left school the moment her back was turned. Despite the mother taking th child to the heads office, when the child then played truant the mother got about 2 weeks in jail.
I was asking how that could be fair.
I was also making a point about kids roaming the streets in school time or at lunch times.
I thought that the point of this thread was to say that the concept was going to be brought in all over Scotland....with Glasgow having the worst poverty levels in Scotland (according to the Daily Record) it would seem prudent to keep the service going especially in Glasgow.
It has stopped down here just now. It would be good if they started it again though.
Id doesnt effect me personally just now, my son is such a fussy eater he refuses to go to school lunch and had the same packed lunch every day... but it certainly helps to ensure kids that do go have at least one good mea a day.
Another fantastic initiative from a Government that goes from strength to strength.
Twaddle, you have no idea of how I feel when I drop my child off at schoool.
I suggest you get your 'feelings' tested, they don't seem to be in correct working order.
There was a case of a woman who got taken to court cos her child left school the moment her back was turned. Despite the mother taking th child to the heads office, when the child then played truant the mother got about 2 weeks in jail.
I was asking how that could be fair.
I was also making a point about kids roaming the streets in school time or at lunch times.
I can tell you there is absolutely nothing wrong with my feelings Changilass and I do know what it is like to leave your child and it ain't nice I can tell you and it doesn't get any easier, but maybe you should of read over what you had written before posting it as it did look like you couldn't wait to get rid for the day..........
As for the child you have mentioned about leaving the school the moment he/she got there, no it ain't fair that the mother got taken to court etc, but there was no mention of this in your first post..... I could of maybe commented on it before....
I can tell you there is absolutely nothing wrong with my feelings Changilass and I do know what it is like to leave your child and it ain't nice I can tell you and it doesn't get any easier, but maybe you should of read over what you had written before posting it as it did look like you couldn't wait to get rid for the day..........
As for the child you have mentioned about leaving the school the moment he/she got there, no it ain't fair that the mother got taken to court etc, but there was no mention of this in your first post..... I could of maybe commented on it before....
I could be wrong but I think you have misinterpreted what was written. As far as I am aware, children that have been put to school are that schools responsibility even when they are allowed out at lunch-time whether it be to the play-ground or down the street.
I think Changilass made a fair point about the responsibility of the school v the responsibility of the parent in as much as, once the child is in school then it is the school's duty to make sure that the child is safe and that they know where they are, not the parents.
I could be wrong but I think you have misinterpreted what was written. As far as I am aware, children that have been put to school are that schools responsibility even when they are allowed out at lunch-time whether it be to the play-ground or down the street.
I think Changilass made a fair point about the responsibility of the school v the responsibility of the parent in as much as, once the child is in school then it is the school's duty to make sure that the child is safe and that they know where they are, not the parents.
Hi
Yes I do understand all that and I agree to what you have said and what Changilass said about the school's responsibilities when the children are there, but it's also the parents responsibilty too, I already said that, but that wasn't my issue..... Agree to disagree I think....
Melancholy Man
03-Oct-08, 12:35
There was a case of a woman who got taken to court cos her child left school the moment her back was turned. Despite the mother taking th child to the heads office, when the child then played truant the mother got about 2 weeks in jail.
Could you be more specific? It's difficult to make a judgement from a biased source.
Another fantastic initiative from a Government that goes from strength to strength.
I think you mean one lead by a grubby nationalist who fans the flames of sectarianism, as the Private Eye put it.
Seeing all the High School kids roaming around town at lunchtime I often wonder at what age they are allowed out. Changilass is right. When I took my children to school I assumed the school was responsible for them until it was time to come home at the end of the day. Parents cannot be responsible for their children once they are in school. I hope primary children are not allowed out but I do worry about the older ones - it seems no-one is responsible during lunch breaks and that's not right, at least not until late teens.
I'm not saying children should not be allowed out on their own but as parents you have control over where they go and who they are with if they go out from home. Who asks questions at school?
As to meals, if they are in school someone knows what they are eating (hopefully) but those who go out are usually eating junk in the street and parents seem to have no say in this. Maybe if they ate more healthy food in primary they would get into better habits later. Maybe ..... How on earth the govt. expects cash-strapped councils to pay is a mystery.
I could be wrong but I think you have misinterpreted what was written. As far as I am aware, children that have been put to school are that schools responsibility even when they are allowed out at lunch-time whether it be to the play-ground or down the street.
I think Changilass made a fair point about the responsibility of the school v the responsibility of the parent in as much as, once the child is in school then it is the school's duty to make sure that the child is safe and that they know where they are, not the parents.
The school is in "loco parentis" that is in place of the parents. If the child truanted after being taken to the school by the parent then the education department are at fault in not keeping the child in their sights. The mother cannot be blamed for this. Imagine being put in jail for a crime committed by another person....is that not called a miscarriage of justice?
Not everyone wants there child to stay for school lunches, some parents want they child to come home for lunch, just so they know they are eating it and I'm sure any parent would make sure that there children do have a Decent Meals, As for parents who take there children to school of course they are liable for there children its called parenting....Why lumber it on someone else..... School's are responsible for the children when they are there but they are not there parents...... I am always there for my children not matter if I take them to school or pick them up.... I feel by your message that once you get them to school etc it a case of don't come back or bother me till its time for home.........
oh i know at my kids school they watch over them like a hawk to make sure they eat most of their dinner, much to my kids disgust lol, but i think it is a good idea especially when the winter comes in, as it isnt a good idea for the kids to be out walking home when it is really cold, at least this way they get a hot meal halfway through the day aswell as when they come home.
Free meals in primary schools are a good idea, if you know that your child will eat the food available. I tried to put my son to school meals, but he ended up having hardly anything to eat, because he wasn't keen on the choices. When it came to vegetables, he would just say No Thank You! Before anyone has a go at me, I'm not blaming the school here! My son is a very fussy eater, so he has a packed lunch at school, so I can make sure he is eating properly at home with a proper meal each day.
In theory, free school meals are a good idea, but as someone has already mentioned, I would rather have free meals for the people who need them, and people who can afford them should keep paying.
Regarding the post by Changilass, I agree about children having to stay in school. I think her post has been misunderstood by some people. She has made a valid point about children wandering around at lunchtime, which I have seen happening. I am there for my son all the time as well, but once I drop him into school each morning, as far as I am concerned, he shouldn't be allowed out of school on his own, and is the school's responsiblity until I pick him up again. And that doesn't mean that I want rid of my son and can't be bothered with him until hometime. That just means that I want to know he is safe while he is in school, until I pick him up.
cuddlepop
03-Oct-08, 15:24
Its all very well saying all p1 to 3 will be entitled to a free lunch but has anyony thought about how some schools are going to be able to deliver this "free" lunch in the time they have allocated for lunch?
At present we have a staggered luchtime in our primary school and the older kids are reluctant to have a school lunch because of the time it takes to get one.
In some cases more catering staff will have to be employed at an added extra cost.
I'm afraid its another"control" idea over our childrens eating patterns.:eek:
northener
03-Oct-08, 19:28
Its all very well saying all p1 to 3 will be entitled to a free lunch but has anyony thought about how some schools are going to be able to deliver this "free" lunch in the time they have allocated for lunch?
At present we have a staggered luchtime in our primary school and the older kids are reluctant to have a school lunch because of the time it takes to get one.
In some cases more catering staff will have to be employed at an added extra cost.
I'm afraid its another"control" idea over our childrens eating patterns.:eek:
I'd hardly put this down as some sort of new 'control' initiative, Cuddlepop.
Certainly in West Yorkshire in the 60's and 70's everyone was kept on the premises over lunchbreak, fed and turfed out into the playground with time to spare during the break.
Am I correct in assuming this used to take place in Scots schools, or was it totally different up here?
I'd like to know as it is going to shape my next post.......
Perhaps i'm being a bit stupid here, but how exactly are Highland Council going to fund these free school meals? From what I've heard, school budgets have already been cut to the bone - litteraly slashed to the stage that once the absolute basics have been bought, theres no cash left for anything 'nice' in classes? From what I've heard, In a lot of cases, schools cant even afford to heat the buildings, let alone buy the kids some new resources?
Perhaps I've got the whole thing wrong, but would it not be more like sense to provide schools with the money and resources they need to provide a quality education for the children, and let those who can afford it buy their own childs' lunch?
I completely agree that free school meals should continue for those children who's families are on low incomes and cannot afford to buy school meals themselves, but surely the rest can fend for themselves? They have up until now, and don't seem to be doing too badly?
It just seems mad that a council who claim to be so short of cash, and who are slashing budgets left, right and centre, now want to spend this ammount of cash unnecessarily?
If the current system aint broke, why spend all that cash trying to fix it??
The "Free" part is nothing more than a bribe to parents of young children to persuade them to get their children to eat what has been decided by the authorities is good for them.
It is, in effect, an accusation that people with small children are incapable of making sure they get a proper diet.
The proud boast was, in the areas where the scheme has been piloted, that parents were now eating healthy food because children were going home and insisting on being given it so parents were eating it rather than cook separate meals.
So now you parents know, if you know what is good for you then you will eat what teacher, or more correctly, Nanny tells you.
Personally i would have thought that making sure schools were provided with what is necessary to educate the children would have been a better use of the money.
I'm off to eat my burger and fry up with chips!
Melancholy Man
03-Oct-08, 20:40
Mmmm, spam fritters and pickled beetroot. Fish on Friday.
the kids have now got the menu and the food is nothing like when i was at school, it actually sounds ediable now lol[lol]
I think you mean one lead by a grubby nationalist who fans the flames of sectarianism, as the Private Eye put it.No doubt said by a grubby unionist.
Alice in Blunderland
03-Oct-08, 21:22
Perhaps i'm being a bit stupid here, but how exactly are Highland Council going to fund these free school meals? From what I've heard, school budgets have already been cut to the bone - litteraly slashed to the stage that once the absolute basics have been bought, theres no cash left for anything 'nice' in classes? From what I've heard, In a lot of cases, schools cant even afford to heat the buildings, let alone buy the kids some new resources?
Perhaps I've got the whole thing wrong, but would it not be more like sense to provide schools with the money and resources they need to provide a quality education for the children, and let those who can afford it buy their own childs' lunch?
I completely agree that free school meals should continue for those children who's families are on low incomes and cannot afford to buy school meals themselves, but surely the rest can fend for themselves? They have up until now, and don't seem to be doing too badly?
It just seems mad that a council who claim to be so short of cash, and who are slashing budgets left, right and centre, now want to spend this ammount of cash unnecessarily?
If the current system aint broke, why spend all that cash trying to fix it??
You are right in thinking where is the money coming from for this one.
Schools have little money left over in the pot once the basics is paid for.
At our last parent council meeting I remember thinking my goodness what on earth is going on in our education system there was so little that we should be going back to slate boards and chalk to save money.
Once again it looks good and makes great headlines in the papers but when it comes down to it its just a great big headache to those left on the frontline delivering the service. :(
To be honest I don't agree with this initiative. I think it is a step too far. Having watched a documentary on C4 about a 9 year old anorexic it got me thinking how can this happen. I appreciate that this country had a high level of obesity in children but the "pushing" of healthy eating and exercise may have been a step too far, it could be having an adverse affect on some kids, pushing them towards anorexia.
No doubt these free school meals with be all "healthy", but its the parents we need to educate about healthy eating as well as the kids.
Another fantastic initiative from a Government that goes from strength to strength.
May I ask why you think this is a fantastic initiative TBH?
May I ask why you think this is a fantastic initiative TBH?Healthier lifestyles, healthier bodies, possibly less of a strain on the NHS resources in future.
Healthier lifestyles, healthier bodies, possibly less of a strain on the NHS resources in future.
I think the healthier aspect has to start in the home. The government will never make people eat their way - people have to realise it for themselves. I think food production and prices should be looked at first - to encourage healthier diets. The logistics of serving all these extra children has to be looked at too - so many schools use their halls as an extra classroom and for gym and music and is hard enough for meals staff to cope with the extra pressure that provides. I do feel that if you are able to pay you should.
Welcomefamily
04-Oct-08, 08:50
In order for kids to develop to their maximum potential, they need first and former between 8 to 10 hours sleep a night, anything less and you are neglecting your child by preventing them from developing maximum neuronal activity. (It could be argued that an occasional period of less is OK if it is off set by a high level of psychology input.
Secondly they need a balanced diet, perferable high in a range of amino acids that allows for the neurotransmitters to be produced.
Thirdly a range of items to meet basic physical needs such as clothing, water for washing etc.
Thirdly an environment that stimulates imagination, curousity, creativity and encourages social interaction. An environment that generates security, social well being and encouragement.
As the schools meals will meet one of these, then it has to be a good thing, however at times I do wonder how healthy some of their meals are?
Supervised school play time is also important as kids do learn some of their social skills there which can often not be the case if the child goes home for lunch.
Likewise school also have a benefit as they can create and stimulate imagination in many cases etc.
I totally agree with you Wf - sleep is extremely important for children.
As regards the nutritional value of school meals - I believe they have strict guidelines as to what is served and the majority of items are freshly cooked. There are some bought in frozen items like fish fingers, sadly to boost dining figures, but the number of times these are served is restricted. I would like to see more local producers used but it all boils down to availability of a large enough supply and the cost. If meals are supplied free on a larger scale then the cost per head may have to be reduced even if more funds are made available.
Does it not come down to budget ie the cook in charge being allotted a certain amount per child and how much the council allocates the school and it will depend on which area you live in as to that figure
I am not convinced about free school meals for all but something needs to be done. While driving or walking to work one can see pupils eating chocolate bars or drinking power drinks etc. - a lot of parents need to do more to ensure their children eat a balanced diet.
I am not convinced about free school meals for all but something needs to be done. While driving or walking to work one can see pupils eating chocolate bars or drinking power drinks etc. - a lot of parents need to do more to ensure their children eat a balanced diet.
Tristan you are so right - they have this rubbish at playtime too! How are they supposed to eat a decent meal when only an hour before they have filled up on such "goodies"? They are children and their stomachs are not that large! Such things should be occasional treats as once they have the taste for junk it is hard to reverse.
Just who or what is going to pay for these school meals? The Councils dont have the monies and Wee Eck's sporran is firmly shut.
Can you not see this is very convenient propaganda by the SNP, there is a by-election in Glenrothes very soon and they need to look good, "Oh look voters we are giving all the bairnies free meals aren't we a good wee government? Never mind that we are not going to fund this expense, you will have to cut the after school clubs and many of the other school activities."
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/Free--school-meals-on.4555198.jp
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