View Full Version : What did you think of the lecture?
Please spend a quiet hour to watch this lecture and comment on it, I'd like to hear your views and how it might make you rethink on your life and beliefs.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=9112899495889928903
Is there an 8th option-I don't care. Sorry Rheghead, I gave up after 10 minutes. I got out of bed because I have a headache and came onto the org-I found it ideal to make me tired. I'm sure God,(if there is one), would understand.
Lolabelle
18-Sep-08, 02:57
I love this kinda thing :)
I voted 1 !!!!!!
What I find really interesting is that if there is no God, why does he bother everyone so much. If there is no God, so??? Why spend money trying to disprove him, why have a lecture circuit devoted to some bloke saying there is no God???
To me, another proof that there is a God, or else he would be just laughed off like a fairy tale, but no, everyone (almost) gets on the bandwagon and debates and reasons and argues.
Psam 14 : 1 :Razz
I listened to the lecture, and this is what I think;
" A person (Me) with an experience is not subject to a person (Anyone) with an opinion."
I have an experience, many actually, and this man has an opinion. In my opinion.
Metalattakk
18-Sep-08, 04:04
What I find really interesting is that if there is no God, why does he bother everyone so much. If there is no God, so??? Why spend money trying to disprove him, why have a lecture circuit devoted to some bloke saying there is no God???
Simply because there are so many who are indoctrinated at an early age into believing, and understandably have unanswered questions that need to be resolved.
To me, another proof that there is a God, or else he would be just laughed off like a fairy tale, but no, everyone (almost) gets on the bandwagon and debates and reasons and argues.
Psam 14 : 1 :Razz
Religion, and God, is already laughed off like a fairy tale. Why? Because the whole idea of religion and creationism and heaven and hell is based on nothing more than writings in a fictional book. A book that has been rewritten countless times over the centuries too.
I listened to the lecture, and this is what I think;
" A person (Me) with an experience is not subject to a person (Anyone) with an opinion."
I have an experience, many actually, and this man has an opinion. In my opinion.
In my opinion, my lack of an experience proves your opinion worthless to me.
Lolabelle
18-Sep-08, 04:16
PS, I don't mind if you think what I believe is a fairy tale, I don't think it is, but if it were, it gives me and many others a lot of pleasure and peace, so for me that is good enough.
But one day, one way or another, we shall know. :D Even though we both think we know now. [lol]
northener
18-Sep-08, 08:05
Er, Lolabelle...I think you should be shooting Metalattak...not Rheggers:D
Why spend money trying to disprove him, why have a lecture circuit devoted to some bloke saying there is no God???
That is an interesting thing to say when millions of people spend millions more on a Sunday to hear someone say the complete opposite so what is the point?
Excellent talk. I wish I had been there. Thank you for sharing it, Rheghead.
As for the question as to why spend money disproving god or not listening to other points of view, I would point out that there was no attempt to indoctrinate by this lecturer. You are invited to think about religion, discuss it, argue over it and defend your position/belief. If a person is not allowed to have that discussion because their religion/belief/faith prohibit it then, for me, it has no respect for those that choose to follow it and no faith in it's own arguments, therby rendering it (that religion) futile.
And as was said in the lecture, just because we don't understand something, does not disprove science nor prove (or disprove) God.
i did not vote. No-one will ever get me to believe in god and i cant change my beliefs because of one mans theory.
Lolabelle
18-Sep-08, 10:00
Er, Lolabelle...I think you should be shooting Metalattak...not Rheggers:D
Whoops :o
That is an interesting thing to say when millions of people spend millions more on a Sunday to hear someone say the complete opposite so what is the point?
I'm very sorry, didn't look properly, obviously!
i did not vote. No-one will ever get me to believe in god and i cant change my beliefs because of one mans theory.
Who's theory exactly? Did you watch the video?
I'm very sorry, didn't look properly, obviously!
Can you look a bit more properly and can you quote a bit from the lecture which you don't agree with and we can discuss it?:confused
I have an experience, many actually, and this man has an opinion. In my opinion.
Actually, I don't think he has an opinion as opinions are not falsifiable. It is people who have Faith that have the opinion as Faith is not falsifiable.
Missed it, but then I've read RD's 'The God Delusion' although did not need to, made me mind up many moons ago.. often wonder why folks 'need' a 'God' - If I was brought up in Pakistan I'd most likely believe in Islam, of if born into another country; Buddhism, or Hinduism but being born into a western culture it was Christianity - but came to my own conclusion by personal experience..
Out of interest wonder how many Christians know that Jesus had four brothers and two sisters; (Google it) just think; there must or most likely be a genetic line somewhere from Jesus? Hmmm now there's thought.
Is there nothing that is intelligently designed through evolution or does it just happen like a hurricane blowing through a scrapyard creating a 747 by chance.
Attacking a caricature or false description of something you oppose, and then claiming victory when you refute it. For example, a common creationist argument is to claim that the process of evolution is like a hurricane blowing through a scrapyard and spontaneously building a Boeing 747. The speaker would then go on to show how impossible and absurd this is to demonstrate that evolution is false. However, evolution does not work at all like that, so the speaker is attacking and defeating a strawman, but the impression given is that the original target has been destroyed.
http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/dictionary.html (http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/dictionary.html)
I wasn't saying it was like a hurricane in a scrapyard I was asking if it was?
I wasn't saying it was like a hurricane in a scrapyard I was asking if it was?
So if a Boeing 747 can't really be made by a hurricane going through a scrapyard then we can only reason that life didn't occur by chance?:confused
So if a Boeing 747 can't really be made by a hurricane going through a scrapyard then we can only reason that life didn't occur by chance?:confusedIt was chance, it could easily have created a boeing 767 instead. Is natural selection an intelligent design?
It was chance, it could easily have created a boeing 767 instead. Is natural selection an intelligent design?
Then how come there aren't naturally occuring 747s if it is easily done? I thought these things are supposed to be slim probabilities?
There is nothing intelligent or chance about natural selection. If it was then life would be Utopic.
Note the artful beginning to his speech.
He separates out poetry, a sense of beauty, human love - everything that informs modern theology and philosophy and announces that he is not going to discuss these things. They are part of poetic physics he says. (Looks a lot like a religion to me!)
Instead he will create a straw man and huff and puff at it instead.
The thing that depresses me is the thunderous applause from his audience.
Perhaps they know something I dont....
Note the artful beginning to his speech.
He separates out poetry, a sense of beauty, human love - everything that informs modern theology and philosophy and announces that he is not going to discuss these things. They are part of poetic physics he says. (Looks a lot like a religion to me!)
Instead he will create a straw man and huff and puff at it instead.
The thing that depresses me is the thunderous applause from his audience.
Perhaps they know something I dont....
Which strawman is that? I'm curious. No religion there as religion depends on belief. He says he is a six on his own scale, ie that there remains a possibility that God exists but there is absolutely no evidence for it. Have you got something that could change his mind? He is a scientist with an open mind. He is in the business of discovering new things and if there is a God, wouldn't he want to know about it?:confused
Okay, If natural selection is not caused by some intelligence then what is it's purpose and how can that pupose be maintained without some sort of intelligence driving it on?
Okay, If natural selection is not caused by some intelligence then what is it's purpose and how can that pupose be maintained without some sort of intelligence driving it on?
Can you see the conflict or irony in what you just said?:confused
How can you hypothetically for the arguement sake accept that something has no intelligence and then ask for its purpose in the same sentence? You simply haven't broken through Professor Dawkins's arguement yet.
Can you see the conflict or irony in what you just said?:confused
How can you hypothetically for the arguement sake accept that something has no intelligence and then ask for its purpose in the same sentence? You simply haven't broken through Professor Dawkins's arguement yet.I was asking if for arguments sake there was no intelligence involved in Natural selection then what factor other than intellegence drives it?
Is that better, clearer, whatever? I am, believe it or not, genuinely interested in your explanation.
The conflict of what I am saying is of your making by the way.
I was asking if for arguments sake there was no intelligence involved in Natural selection then what factor other than intellegence drives it?
There is no answer in 100 words or less. It is not a simple process with one only driver. But if you really want a condense answer ( that is so easy to pick apart because it excludes all the complexity of natural selection) then the answer would be: chance random mutations in DNA that cause favorable heritable traits that and are magnified within a population because of the advantage confered by said mutation.
Mutations happen because when a cell divides mistakes happen.
There is no answer in 100 words or less. It is not a simple process with one only driver. But if you really want a condense answer ( that is so easy to pick apart because it excludes all the complexity of natural selection) then the answer would be: chance random mutations in DNA that cause favorable heritable traits that and are magnified within a population because of the advantage confered by said mutation.
Mutations happen because when a cell divides mistakes happen.I'm not looking to pick anything apart, I am just trying to get my head around it. My understanding is that it is driven by a need to adapt to changing environments but I can't understand why it's not an intelligent process.
I was asking if for arguments sake there was no intelligence involved in Natural selection then what factor other than intellegence drives it?
Is that better, clearer, whatever? I am, believe it or not, genuinely interested in your explanation.
The conflict of what I am saying is of your making by the way.
The conflict is with you, you can't have purpose with no intelligence so what was the point in your question?
There is no driving natural selection, driving requires purpose, purpose requires intelligence.
Is it just chance that the one-eyed man is king in a world of the blind? Did someone have enough intelligence to give him an eye so he will be king?
The conflict is with you, you can't have purpose with no intelligence so what was the point in your question?
There is no driving natural selection, driving requires purpose, purpose requires intelligence.
Is it just chance that the one-eyed man is king in a world of the blind? Did someone have enough intelligence to give him an eye so he will be king?
So is there no purpose in an animal that has evolved, adapted over the years according to it's environment?
Please spend a quiet hour to watch this lecture and comment on it, I'd like to hear your views and how it might make you rethink on your life and beliefs.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=9112899495889928903
I tried Rheghead but only managed to get about 80% there before I was interrupted by the phone, then I had to go cook dinner. Will try again later.
One thought did occur to me however. I didn't seem to be laughing along with the audience at "the right time".
Another thought has occurred to me - you've not said if you voted, what your vote was or why. Pray tell. :)
So is there no purpose in an animal that has evolved, adapted over the years according to it's environment?
That is right, any purpose that you see is only from a human's perspective. The animal is completely unaware of the changes in its ancestor's physiology or of any changes that its offspring may under go.
@Moira I voted 6
That is right, any purpose that you see is only from a human's perspective. The animal is completely unaware of the changes in its ancestor's physiology or of any changes that its offspring may under go.
@Moira I voted 6So it just happens, gee wizz Reghead, your enough to turn me religious.
..........@Moira I voted 6
Thanks for that. I think I'll be a 3 or a 4 but I'm not sure yet.
So it just happens, gee wizz Reghead, your enough to turn me religious.
There is no point in being in denial about it. Your life will be enriched by its acceptance.
Thanks for that. I think I'll be a 3 or a 4 but I'm not sure yet.
Thanks for that, tell me about your conflicts with the lecture. Can you give me specifics about what Prof Dawkins said?
There is no point in being in denial about it. Your life will be enriched by its acceptance.
It seems to me that neither creationists nor evolutionists have any real answers to their beliefs. Some form of intelligence is guiding evolution, maybe not God, but something within every living thing on this planet.
It seems to me that neither creationists nor evolutionists have any real answers to their beliefs. Some form of intelligence is guiding evolution, maybe not God, but something within every living thing on this planet.
Let's get this straight, scientists don't have beliefs.
Something what is that? Is that make-believe?
Let's get this straight, scientists don't have beliefs.
Something what is that? Is that make-believe? Okay Rheghead but you seem to have a deep seated, blind faith in the belief you supposedly don't have.
Okay Rheghead but you seem to have a deep seated, blind faith in the belief you supposedly don't have.
What faith or beliefs? I am open to the possibility of God (and I have taken a lot of notice in the past) but until such times the evidence presents itself then I have no justification in taking it very seriously. That isn't faith, that is just being logical rather than having faith in something you can't put your finger on.
So tell me more about this intelligent thing that guides evolution, what is your justification for it?
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