View Full Version : Shoot Him Or Not?
Kevin Milkins
13-Mar-08, 23:10
When you get a situation like the one today were a guy climbs over the fence at Heathrow and runs towards a plane carrying a ruck sack. Should he have been shot first and ask questions later?
When you get a situation like the one today were a guy climbs over the fence at Heathrow and runs towards a plane carrying a ruck sack. Should he have been shot first and ask questions later?
If the police officers have reasonable grounds to suspect that the man is endangering the lives of those on board the plane and there is no other way to stop him then I would have thought there is justification to shoot.
The Angel Of Death
13-Mar-08, 23:21
Dammed if they do dammed if they don’t id say wouldn’t have made any difference "IF" he had a bomb in the rucksack and it went off you would get the cries of why didn’t they shoot him
If they shot him they would have been wrong because we know now that there was nothing suss in the bag
Hindsight is a wonderful tool isn’t it
DeHaviLand
13-Mar-08, 23:22
Shoot him, and if he's still able to answer questions later, shoot him again:D
difficult question to answer??!! wat would u have done in that situation??? i supposed theyd be trained to shoot, but as was said damned if they did damned if they never. one of those questions of which no answer is right. i have no idea wat id of done in that situation............
No doubt the fact that the intruder was on open ground went some way to deciding on the action to take - backpack bombs work best in confined spaces and crowds.
If he had got too close to aircraft I expect he may well have been stopped pretty quickly.
Kevin Milkins
13-Mar-08, 23:32
Shoot him, and if he's still able to answer questions later, shoot him again:D
I would not normaly agree ,but in these sort of circumstances I do.He can hardly say that my wife was on board and she forgot her sandwitches.
Even if he was carrying nothing sinister he could have been testing out our security to see how far he or an organisation could get without being challenged. I dont as yet know what his motives were ,but our response worrys me slightly.
:lol::lol:
Shoot him, and if he's still able to answer questions later, shoot him again
changilass
13-Mar-08, 23:36
Leave him be and shoot the head of security :lol:
Or let him blow the plane up and save a wee bit on carbon emissions?[smirk]
Leave him be and shoot the head of security :lol:
Considering the number of breaches of security, I would say that this makes the most sense.
Shut down Heathrow completely and then me an' the hubbie can get a good night#s sleep!
Shut down Heathrow completely and then me an' the hubbie can get a good night#s sleep!
I <3 T5....
[lol]
DeHaviLand
14-Mar-08, 00:27
I <3 T5....
And you complain that you cant understand trix :roll::lol:
weeboyagee
14-Mar-08, 00:30
Anyone running across tarmac towards a plane in an airport with a rucksack is probably not trying to catch the flight because they are ever so slightly late. If the police have cause to shoot I doubt it's because they haven't already tried to stop them I should imagine.
At the end of the day if there is little option then they will have to do what is required - the country won't forgive them if the plane and the folk in it are injured or worse.... Hmmm?....
WBG :cool:
coppertop 1958
14-Mar-08, 00:35
Shoot Him ....... then ask him
Kevin Milkins
14-Mar-08, 00:37
Anyone running across tarmac towards a plane in an airport with a rucksack is probably not trying to catch the flight because they are ever so slightly late. If the police have cause to shoot I doubt it's because they haven't already tried to stop them I should imagine.
At the end of the day if there is little option then they will have to do what is required - the country won't forgive them if the plane and the folk in it are injured or worse.... Hmmm?....
WBG :cool:
It was'nt the running accross the tarmac or the ruck sack.that bothered me a great deal it was the 15 foot fence that he climbed over should have been just about enough to tell the average person you should not be in here.
weeboyagee
14-Mar-08, 00:43
It was'nt the running accross the tarmac or the ruck sack.that bothered me a great deal it was the 15 foot fence that he climbed over should have been just about enough to tell the average person you should not be in here.
Agreed. Didn't know about the article - just commented on the generic nature of the statement originally made - did I miss something on the news?
WBG :cool:
George Brims
14-Mar-08, 00:51
How on earth did he get over the fence? I haven't read much detail on this incident.
Kevin Milkins
14-Mar-08, 01:06
How on earth did he get over the fence? I haven't read much detail on this incident.
A guy climbed over the the parimitor fence at Heathrow Airport carrying a ruck sack and sprinted accross the runway towards an aircraft but he was apriended and a controlled explotion of his ruck sack took place. It caused a big disruption at Heathrow. I personly think there were very good grounds for shooting him.
DeHaviLand
14-Mar-08, 01:09
A guy climbed over the the parimitor fence at Heathrow Airport carrying a ruck sack and sprinted accross the runway towards an aircraft but he was apriended and a controlled explotion of his ruck sack took place. It caused a big disruption at Heathrow. I personly think there were very good grounds for shooting him.
Yes, so do I. I mean, just how much of an idiot do you have to be to be pulling a stunt like this? Did he seriously think of what the consequences might be?
Villages all over the world will be checking on their inhabitants tonight, just in case one has gone missing.:roll:
15 foot fence is easy to scale...
Kevin Milkins
14-Mar-08, 01:28
15 foot fence is easy to scale...
I have no doubt that a fit man could scale a 15ft fence.However the very fact that the fence was there should indicate that if I climb over this with a rucksack and run accross the tarmac I will get shot. Unfortuatly that is not the case and I beleive it sends a message to anybody wishing to caurse mayhem,CAN
The mental state of the man may have affected his ability to realise that he may get shot. The protesters the other week did not get shot. If he was protesting about something then maybe its just as well the police took the decision not to shoot.
Then of course his mental state might have been that he wished to commit suicide by police shooting. It happens...
The mental state of the man may have affected his ability to realise that he may get shot. The protesters the other week did not get shot. If he was protesting about something then maybe its just as well the police took the decision not to shoot.
Then of course his mental state might have been that he wished to commit suicide by police shooting. It happens...God I hope suicide by police shooting is not another one of the united states' peculiarities to make it's way to Britain.
Kevin Milkins
14-Mar-08, 02:03
The mental state of the man may have affected his ability to realise that he may get shot. The protesters the other week did not get shot. If he was protesting about something then maybe its just as well the police took the decision not to shoot.
Then of course his mental state might have been that he wished to commit suicide by police shooting. It happens...
I know as a f requent traveller that I will get no were near a plane with a substance of more than 100ml and I have to take my shoes off and my belt and generally look a prat going through customs.I now also know should I like to blow up a plane I stand a much better chance of climbing over a fence with a bag of bombs.
Planes used to be hijacked during the 60s-70s. The planes of 9/11 were hijacked and then used as crude but effective missiles. Is it hijacking they are trying to guard against or someone trying to get explosives on board?
They couldn't shoot him. Health and Safety have deemed that in such situations, before any action can be taken, a full Risk Assessment has to be carried out and submitted in writing to ensure the Safety of the Public.
The Armed Officer should advise the suspect that he should stop and remain in his current position until such a Risk Assessment has ben completed. Once that has been carried out the Officer must advise the suspect that, as a result of his considerate compliance and in order to be completely fair to him, he will be given a ten second head start before any further action will be taken.
Failure by the Armed Officer to carry out such actions will result in him being prosecuted for breaching the Health and Safety Regulations and thereby putting the public at unnecessary risk.
Should the suspect fail to stop when instructed to do so then the Armed Officer will be deemed to have breached the same Regulations for not having ensured the suspect complied.
Should the Suspect succeed in blowing up a plane and injuring and killing people the Armed Officer will be prosecuted for allowing the suspect to put the public at risk and also with aiding and abetting an act of terrorism.
Remember, the Health and Safety Executive, God Bless their little cotton socks, are there solely for your protection and welfare!
Who care what happens provided the Health and Safety Executive get their pound of flesh to justify their existence.
What I want to know is turned off the 10,000V razorwire on top of the fence?
What, they don't have any? Tut tut tut.
To shoot or no to shoot? I didn't even know they were allowed firearms, surely that breaches some HSE policy.....
It just goes to show u there security is not near as good as they like to think
i know where i come from in america.. that the rule is shoot to wound when possible. obviously if someone is returning fire you do what you have to do.
just thinking wouldnt it make sence to tell them to stop when and if they didnt then that would be taken as a sign of aggression and then it would be time to take out an arm or a leg. usually leg as that tends to stop them. but the use of a fire arm should always be the last resort, after they have tried to stop them and before they reach their supposed target.
btw any one know yet why he did it?
Shoot to wound is a myth - when you shoot someone you aim for the largest part of the body.
Shooting them in the leg or arm is right out of the movies. If they happen to move and you get them in the arm or leg then it's their lucky day. That is why 'less lethal' options were introduced.
Why did he do it? Guess all will be revealed in the fullness of time.
Penelope Pitstop
14-Mar-08, 12:54
It just goes to show u there security is not near as good as they like to think
It makes you wonder doesn't it.
Mind you it must be an absolute nightmare to be head of security there....glad it ain't me:D
Very little info coming out, but should the Coppers have shot him? don't really know, it's a judgement the armed police have to take at the time, and after being crucified ref the de Menezes incident, might well have had a bearing..
"The intruder, who is believed to be an asylum seeker.The man, who speaks Tamil but no English, was detained for being airside illegally. His mental health was being assessed by doctors today"
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23454256-details/Army+guard+at+Heathrow:+Military+could+man+fence+a fter+security+alert+sees+man+with+rucksacks+run+in to+path+of+planes/article.do (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23454256-details/Army+guard+at+Heathrow:+Military+could+man+fence+a fter+security+alert+sees+man+with+rucksacks+run+in to+path+of+planes/article.do)
Phoenix200416
14-Mar-08, 13:15
Yes, so do I. I mean, just how much of an idiot do you have to be to be pulling a stunt like this? Did he seriously think of what the consequences might be?
Villages all over the world will be checking on their inhabitants tonight, just in case one has gone missing.:roll:
The villiage idiot. I am sure that they would notice it missing ;).
shoot him in the legs... he wont be running anywhere then..
The Angel Of Death
14-Mar-08, 13:22
Shooting him in the legs might stop him but if he has a bomb in the ruck sack then is still enables him to use the hands to activate it
In a situation like that they go for the biggest target and thats either dead center of the chest or the head and more ofter than not its the head as once the brain stem is cut your arms legs or anything for that matter else just aint going to work
Basically its either wait and see or proper off the bloke thats would have been the only two options available to the security teams and after the Menezes incident its fair to say that a load of caution would have been used but it doesnt matter what they did obiously it was wrong for them not to act and for him to get on the runway but if they shot and killed him that would have been wrong also there is no pleasing some folks
Shoot him - and give the do gooders and media something to occupy their simple minds for a while.
Remember: in a free society - there is no such thing as 100% security..
Shoot him in the leg and you have a good chance if both annoying him and hitting an artery and making him bleed to death.
Standard procedure is to aim for the torso, or in the case of suspected suicide bomber at the head.
He may have climbed the fence but was the a sign in all possible languages of this earth, telling him if he should do so he is most likely to be shot at, there. on second thoughts if such a sign existed we wouldn´t need a fence because the sign would be so big. and then shoot him.... no seriously I think the police had it sussed up.
I totally agree, Bobbyj, I think armed policing is a job that is often considered a novelty - home many times to people joke locally about the Dounreay bobbies being armed and dangerous ;). Yet on the other side of the coin, have many of them considered the points you have mentioned above, and the serious situations they may find themselves in?
A very dear friend once told me he was considering becoming firearms trained with the local constabulary - my advice was don't do it, unless/until you are completely certain you can live with the consequences of fatally wounding someone. :confused
It's the only job in the world where you will get suspended, and investigated for carrying out the role you have been trained for. Then you have to live with it.
Bit more info coming out (BBC London)
Man charged over Heathrow alert
Police have charged a man accused of triggering a major security alert at Heathrow Airport by allegedly running towards the runway. Ketheeswaran Uthayakumar, 27, of no fixed abode, has been charged with aircraft endangerment at the UK's biggest airport. He is due to appear in custody at Uxbridge Magistrates' Court, west London, on Saturday. Mr Uthayakumar was arrested at the airport on Thursday afternoon.
Might find out later what he was actually doing!
It's obvious what he was doing, he was in a hurry so he was running to catch a plane! :D
If he was challenged and dropped the rucksack then straight way the danger will have been 'reduced'.
If he was running away then shooting him will have not been seen as an option. Launching a Furry Exocet to stop him could well have been one of their choices as well as a good tasering if he was with in range.
Regarding if he had been shot - the officer responsible only has to have an honestly held belief that the person could kill or maim other officers or members of the public to 'justify' his actions.
Also I am pretty sure that the fact they were surrounded by multimillion pounds worth of aircraft, full of flammable fuels and passengers may well have had a element in dictating the use of firearms...
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