View Full Version : Do we need alcohol to function in society?
Have just returned from two weeks based in a Berber village in the high Atlas mountains in Morocco without beer, spirits or any sign of alcoholic stimulants and for that matter anything that might be smoked.
It was a good chance to observe life in a Muslim society and if you discount the obligation of having to pray five times a day to Mecca, the seeming lack of any females between 15 and 50 and a close to third world economy, social interaction had a lot going for it. People met in the cafes, shops and in the village square played draughts and cards and generally got together in a pretty healthy way. Our room overlooked the square so in between trips into the mountains there was plenty of time to watch.
Like most of us I've had friends whose lives and health have been ruined by drink and being able to observe a place functioning without booze was a real eyeopener and although I'll enjoy a glass of wine as much as the next person this holiday really comfirmed a underlying feeling that I've had for some time that social events without alcohol can be a lot more fun.
Of course I know that prohibition or extreme temperence is never going to work in this country but I'll carry on asking the barman for a pot of tea or a mineral water. The belief that imbibing alcohol has to be a necessary preliminary or an important part of any social event is frankly garbage and should be relegated to history alongside the many other social customs which have dropped of the agenda in recent years.
weeboyagee
11-Mar-08, 10:51
SHRIEK!!! :eek: Not for me. My weekends would be a disaster! :eek:
SHRIEK!!! :eek: Not for me. My weekends would be a disaster! :eek:
TOO RIGHT! Please don't even suggest that!
Boozeburglar
11-Mar-08, 11:24
Is it not wonderful to see a sixteen year old posting such a thing?
Will Caithness ever change?
Is it not wonderful to see a sixteen year old posting such a thing?
My thoughts too - next he'll be asking what to stock his minibar with...
What should I stock my minibar with?
Boozeburglar
11-Mar-08, 11:59
Oh look, your post count was 666!
What are your favourite pubs in Thurso then Rob?
Oh look, your post count was 666!
What are your favourite pubs in Thurso then Rob?
Oh no not the dreaded 666, we are all doomed [lol]
Errogie,
Abstinence is just a matter of willpower. I can go for weeks without drinking alcohol. A far cry from my younger days and probably partly due to the time it takes to recover from the night before. Time is getting short and I can't afford to lie in my pit feeling like I have a herd of elephants playing football in my cranial cavity.
I can quite happily go out for a meal with friends and be the delegated driver.
What should I stock my minibar with?
Why aren't you in school?
Forget to do the laundry?
I think life without Alcohol or stimulants would be an interesting scenario, there would be chaos in the chemists with smokers begging for patches. Doctors surgeries handing out anti-smoking tablets etc
The pubs would sell out of Red Bull and Coffee as these would be the only stimulants available. An alcohol ban would cause chaos, there would be riots in the pubs....or am I over exagerrating. People would have to talk to each other instead of just fighting because of alcohol induced irritation.
I rarely drink and don't smoke and my life is just fine...
Interesting Errogie - Alchohol - can take it or leave it. Don't need booze to enjoy myself. But I do wish the choice of non alchoholic drinks available on a night out were a bit more exciting.
Why aren't you in school?
Forget to do the laundry?
I'm off school because my shoulder is very sore (had to go to hospital) and I have a burn in my throat. Plus I'm just run down and tired out.
i dont drink or smoke.. and have just given up my addiction to diet coke! let me tell you has been a rough few days with the caffine withdrawl! but i have never needed to be drunk or drinking to enjoy life *Grins*
I'm off school because my shoulder is very sore (had to go to hospital) and I have a burn in my throat. Plus I'm just run down and tired out.
It's just pain......
No there's physical damage that the Dr said I need to rest....I have to carry heavy stuff around.
Boozeburglar
11-Mar-08, 13:05
Thought about therapy?
Boozeburglar - she said by the time something was organised it'd be better, so it'll be like this a week tops. It happeend a few weeks ago, but i had to lift my carpet into my house last night and knackered myself.
Kevin Milkins
11-Mar-08, 13:40
Have just returned from two weeks based in a Berber village in the high Atlas mountains in Morocco without beer, spirits or any sign of alcoholic stimulants and for that matter anything that might be smoked.
It was a good chance to observe life in a Muslim society and if you discount the obligation of having to pray five times a day to Mecca, the seeming lack of any females between 15 and 50 and a close to third world economy, social interaction had a lot going for it. People met in the cafes, shops and in the village square played draughts and cards and generally got together in a pretty healthy way. Our room overlooked the square so in between trips into the mountains there was plenty of time to watch.
Like most of us I've had friends whose lives and health have been ruined by drink and being able to observe a place functioning without booze was a real eyeopener and although I'll enjoy a glass of wine as much as the next person this holiday really comfirmed a underlying feeling that I've had for some time that social events without alcohol can be a lot more fun.
Of course I know that prohibition or extreme temperence is never going to work in this country but I'll carry on asking the barman for a pot of tea or a mineral water. The belief that imbibing alcohol has to be a necessary preliminary or an important part of any social event is frankly garbage and should be relegated to history alongside the many other social customs which have dropped of the agenda in recent years.
I,ll Drink to that
Loch not Lock
11-Mar-08, 14:13
I have been an alcoholic for over 40 years and had great times until it became an addiction and a neccessity. I am now dry and functioning, with difficulty.:confused
Loch, Don't worry! You'll get there! Just think how much fun you can have without the drink!
Margaret M.
11-Mar-08, 14:38
Great post, Errogie. I had a few hangovers and puffed a few fags when I was younger but how anyone can do either one on a regular basis is beyond me. There is something missing if one depends on alcohol to enjoy life.
Sapphire2803
11-Mar-08, 15:02
No, we don't need it, but it's like cream cakes or nice clothes, it's just something that is nice when I can afford it. I can have a great night out and a good laugh when I'm designated driver for the night and only drinking diet coke, but every now and again (probably once a year) I go out and get buckled. I can go without for months at a time or have a small drinky each evening. I don't do anybody any harm.
When it comes down to people causing harm to others whilst trolleyed, then I suppose you could just go the whole hog and ban anything that you might get hurt because of... We could start with designer trainers and expensive mobile phones... you might get mugged if you have those, so they're obviously bad. :roll:
To be honest, I'd find it hard to look up to a culture where the women have to stay indoors, do as they're told, go without education, not talk to anybody without permission or suffer the consequences.
But, hold on.... just because you didn't see any alcohol... doesn't mean nobody had any...
No we don't need alcohol to function in society.
Though it does serve a useful purpose as an antispetic, antibacterial substance.
I will have the occassional drink but thats it, I really can't be bothered with it and I have seen so many people and lives ruined by it that I honestly at the moment find the thought of drinking alcohol totally repulsive.
Well done Loch I am so glad it is still going good for you, every day is a battle though but look at it this way the hard days are good as at least you remember them.
I'm off school because my shoulder is very sore (had to go to hospital) and I have a burn in my throat. Plus I'm just run down and tired out.
See you're resting it then! LOL
I have the odd drink but personally I can do without. Depends on the company; can't imagine that I would ever need a drink in the company of the orgers! ;)
dare i say it, no dont drink so i dont need it to socialise but some do....each man or woman to their own......
I hardly drink but on a night out hey ho, I'm last at the bar!
If I'm driving I usually always just drink iced water but may stretch to the very occasional weak shandy
I think society would be much better off minus alcohol so no IMO we do not need it apart from on a wipe to clean the skin just prior to piercing etc.. [lol]
See you're resting it then! LOL
LOL! Thankfully its my left shoulder! :lol:
I think I'm getting the kind of response I expected to this post which probably mirrors the way people handle or can't handle their relationship with alcohol. Some fairly predictable kneejerk reactions, others simply accept it's not a big deal and don't have any chemical dependency on the stuff.
On that subject I always remember my younger brother at the time he was doing a residency at Raigmore commenting on the number of ordinarily admitted patients who began to experience withdrawl symptons after half a week in the ward because they weren't getting their nightly 3 or 4 pints of beer down the pub!
I simply made the point that perhaps alcoholic intake doesn't have to be a necessary prequisite of social interaction but then there's a whole industry out there giving out the other message and what really gets up my nose is being pushed around and brainwashed by any multi national industial or commercial conglomerate into buying their product.
Keep the comments coming!
weeboyagee
11-Mar-08, 22:10
Hello Errogie - I am not dependant on alcohol but whilst I sit and enjoy a glass of wine that will probably turn to the whole bottle being drunk I will drink your health tonight my friend. Cheers! Tomorrow I abstain, Thursday I will look forward to Friday and Friday night I will look forward to my wee pint and dram and meeting rob16d and whoever else is out there of a similar mind - my minibar is stocked with about 20 odd bottles of different malt - anyone for a dram? :D
rob16d - I hope you don't smoke - it's a bad habit and you should give it up!.... heh-heh...
WBG :cool:
Hello Errogie - I am not dependant on alcohol but whilst I sit and enjoy a glass of wine that will probably turn to the whole bottle being drunk I will drink your health tonight my friend. Cheers! Tomorrow I abstain, Thursday I will look forward to Friday and Friday night I will look forward to my wee pint and dram and meeting rob16d and whoever else is out there of a similar mind - my minibar is stocked with about 20 odd bottles of different malt - anyone for a dram? WBG
So it's you leading Kat astray, or is it the other way round? ;)
Kevin Milkins
11-Mar-08, 22:22
I think I'm getting the kind of response I expected to this post which probably mirrors the way people handle or can't handle their relationship with alcohol. Some fairly predictable kneejerk reactions, others simply accept it's not a big deal and don't have any chemical dependency on the stuff.
On that subject I always remember my younger brother at the time he was doing a residency at Raigmore commenting on the number of ordinarily admitted patients who began to experience withdrawl symptons after half a week in the ward because they weren't getting their nightly 3 or 4 pints of beer down the pub!
I simply made the point that perhaps alcoholic intake doesn't have to be a necessary prequisite of social interaction but then there's a whole industry out there giving out the other message and what really gets up my nose is being pushed around and brainwashed by any multi national industial or commercial conglomerate into buying their product.
Keep the comments coming!
You have started a very good thread here Errogiae. If you look at many of the problems in society today it seems more acceptable in court if the crime being tried is followed by "sorry melord I was pissed at the time" and that makes all crime understandable. I feel like a hypocryte as I am sat here with a large B and C. I do understand the point that you make and would not mind being put in a far away place where drink and drugs are not available just to suck it and see. Having given up smoking 8 months ago, if I gave up the booze I will proberbly live to be 102. And hate every minute of it
percy toboggan
11-Mar-08, 23:36
It was a good chance to observe life in a Muslim society and if you discount the obligation of having to pray five times a day
They don't have a choice then?
If not that's one heck of an obligation.
I've been to muslim countries as a tourist and observed the segregation of the sexes, the patriarchal gatherings in Cafe's and the like.
It's an entirely valid way of life I suppose...but it's theirs. Ours is ours.
Alcohol is an addendum to life, not the very reason for it. That some...perhaps many weak individuals allow their lives to be ruined by it is no reason to prevent those who manage their intake, and know when to stop, enjoying a drink whenever they so choose. Those who harm others, cause nuisance and vomit in the streets should be dealt with severely.
I've had one can of strong real Ale tonight - three others untouched...I'll not be saying my prayers before I turn in, or before I turn out.
weeboyagee
11-Mar-08, 23:43
Kat says (put that glass down Kat and tell me what I have to say!...) you (Julia) know that she is not capable of leading anyone astray - so I have just polished the wine off myself tonight!......
Errogie, you know me - this is a good thread, your serious contribution is a genuine one and at the end of the day we can all do without it (cough,....choke.....) even though even I admit it!
WBG :cool:
WBG,
You make it sound like we meet have a dram lol!
weeboyagee
12-Mar-08, 00:45
Careful rob16d,.... don't want the org to think I am encouraging underage drinking! Anyway - a dram is a dram - this org know's you better than I do - my first night after a long absence - but back anyway! Did someone say "dram"?
WBG :cool:
Weeboyagee,
I can tell that you're gearing up for the forthcoming Whisky Olympics aka The National Mod and that's why the signs have had to be adjusted for a Gaelic invasion of e' County.
Suas Nam Cannan!
""Do we need alcohol to function in society?"
Nope!
""Do we need alcohol to function in society?"
Nope!
Theoretically we don't, however, some people obviously DO.
If we don't need alcohol, why are we spending such a fortune on the stuff?
Just a few snippets to consider:-
"Alcohol consumption has doubled in Britain since the 1960s. Today, a quarter of the adult population - around 11 million - binge drink regularly. Binge drinking, which is consuming more than six to eight units in a single sitting, means the liver and other organs are flooded with a poisonous substance at levels that overwhelm the body's normal defence mechanisms.
"A quarter of all A & E admissions are related to excess drinking and the cost to the nation is estimated at �7.3 billion a year for alcohol-related crime alone, plus a public health bill of �1.7 billion per year. In the last ten years, deaths from cirrhosis have doubled, where cirrhosis now causes more deaths in men than Parkinson's Disease.
"France and Italy have more than halved their alcohol consumption over the time that it has doubled in the UK, and if we are unable to reverse this trend we will have failed the next generation.
"The number of under 18s admitted to hospital has gone up 15 per cent over the last decade, while the number of children buying alcohol illegally has doubled in the last 15 years. Around 30,000 teenagers face criminal conviction for being drunk and disorderly each year but more worryingly, deaths from cirrhosis are rising in younger age groups, with people in their 20s and 30s now being treated for liver failure."
Boozy Britain!!
I presume you are talking about ethanol for consumption.
Alcohol has many uses apart from drinking:
The solvent in marker pens
The anti freeze in your car
Instant hand wash that kills 99% of everything
Perfume!
Deoderant
Biofuel
Communion wine
And the list goes on!
Personally I think a little in moderation is not a bad thing. Its more the fact that as a society we actively PROMOTE drinking to excess.
However they try to disguise it, they still want you to drink, it makes the government money and it makes pubs/club/supermarkets money.
According to the beeb, the cost to the NHS is £1.7bn per year to treat alcohol related problems.
But the government makes in excise duty and vat around £14bn a year!
So its still a lot cheaper to keep them drinking! In fact, they want you to drink as it makes them a lot of money!
Shocking maybe, unexpected? I think not.
weeboyagee
12-Mar-08, 14:22
Weeboyagee,
I can tell that you're gearing up for the forthcoming Whisky Olympics aka The National Mod and that's why the signs have had to be adjusted for a Gaelic invasion of e' County.
Suas Nam Cannan!
That's a wicked rumour! But true. There's a question for your thread now - could the Whisky Olympics go ahead without the Whisky? Do they really need alcohol to make the festival a success?
It's the inhibition that alcohol takes care of and that's why some people actually rely on it - and without it they don't have the ability to do or undertake or take part in some of the things they do! It's not an excuse but it is to an extent very true.
WBG :cool:
Beer up by 4p a pint, wine 14p a bottle, spirits 55p a bottle and cider 3p a litre by Sunday.
So there you are (how much will I be saving?)
Have just returned from two weeks based in a Berber village in the high Atlas mountains in Morocco without beer, spirits or any sign of alcoholic stimulants and for that matter anything that might be smoked.
Like most of us I've had friends whose lives and health have been ruined by drink and being able to observe a place functioning without booze was a real eyeopener and although I'll enjoy a glass of wine as much as the next person this holiday really comfirmed a underlying feeling that I've had for some time that social events without alcohol can be a lot more fun. There is no obligation on anybody to drink alcohol at any function so I don't see where the problem is with it being available. The decision to take it is an individual choice, not an obligation.
I've known people whose lives have been ruined through playing competitive sports. Should I use that to confirm my underlying feeling that competitive sport is unnecessary because I've found that exercise without competition can be a lot more fun?
Where has this modern day wish to set the clock back several centuries by treating things which certain people or groups don't agree with or like as mortal sins for which everybody should do penance for their sinful ways?
If you don't wish to drink, that is your choice and I will not interfere with that choice or try to force you to take alcohol.
That being said, I see no reason the same freedom of choice should not be extended to others. If you really want to know what the banning of alcohol would lead to they I suggest you check what happened in America when Prohibition was enforced there. And don't anybody even try to suggest that this is Britain or Scotland so it would never happen here because, believe it or not, we are most certainly not that special.
The "I don't like it or think it is necessary so it should not be allowed to happen" is the attitude of the Totalitarian State or one dominated by Religious Dogma and not that of a society where there is Freedom of Choice.
Jaws I'm not a prohibitionist anymore than you are because we both know that is simply unrealistic. What I am questioning is the presumption, sometimes accompanied with a dollop of machoism from the company you may be in that you are the odd man out or even less than welcome if you don't join in with the hard stuff. Now that may be down to the rough bars which I actually prefer instead of the glitzy themed bars which are becoming the norm in many places. (Who chooses the books on the shelves in these places or do they just buy them by the yard?)
I'm old enough and ornery enough to stand up to that sort of pressure but there are others who find it easier to follow the easier option and just go with the crowd because that's accepted as the norm.
weeboyagee
12-Mar-08, 18:52
....but there are others who find it easier to follow the easier option and just go with the crowd because that's accepted as the norm
Me. I give in all the time, it's useless to put up a fight I find - wait til I get my hands round Darling's neck for putting 55p on a bottle of the Uisge Beatha - the bleggard!
WBG :cool:
Errogie, I can match your 2 weeks in an alcohol free zone with my 3 month stay in the Iona community. After a month on the island we did have access to the local bar a few nights a week, but a two mile walk was not something most of us looked forward to at the end of a long day, so the treks were few and far between.
We survived. Our social time was limited, but what get togethers we had were loads of fun. And as a replacement for the glass in the hand, many of us took up knitting. Lots of socks and scarves took shape over those months.
(No golach, I am not forgetting the evening out I had in Edinburgh in the middle of the Iona experience.)
(No golach, I am not forgetting the evening out I had in Edinburgh in the middle of the Iona experience.)
Canuck, I do not think 2 half pint lager shandies count, well not in my book, and definately not in WBG's book[lol]
Green_not_greed
12-Mar-08, 22:20
Alchohol free????
As it says in "Shameless" - (not a quote but the jist of it...) without alcohol or drugs the whole of society would go completely mental - free drugs and alcohol to keep us sane , please........!
I am beginning to see the emergence of a new org experiment. We can call it The Errogie Challenge - 2 weeks alcohol free and then write about the experience.
weeboyagee
12-Mar-08, 22:33
Canuck, I do not think 2 half pint lager shandies count, well not in my book, and definately not in WBG's book[lol]
Well said Golach - definitely not in my book. 2 half lager shandies - juice for the kids.
WBG :cool:
I am beginning to see the emergence of a new org experiment. We can call it The Errogie Challenge - 2 weeks alcohol free and then write about the experience.
Nah !! Canuck OH tries that now and again with offshore stints to lead on to 2 healthy Bts Shiraz on landing plus maybe a few wee glasses on domestic flight home from Norwich [lol]
[quote=canuck;357362 And as a replacement for the glass in the hand, many of us took up knitting. Lots of socks and scarves took shape over those months.[/quote]
It will never replace champagne..but you could knit a nifty wee bottle cosy for a nicely aged Tempranillo.;)
Jaws I'm not a prohibitionist anymore than you are because we both know that is simply unrealistic. What I am questioning is the presumption, sometimes accompanied with a dollop of machoism from the company you may be in that you are the odd man out or even less than welcome if you don't join in with the hard stuff. Now that may be down to the rough bars which I actually prefer instead of the glitzy themed bars which are becoming the norm in many places. (Who chooses the books on the shelves in these places or do they just buy them by the yard?)
I'm old enough and ornery enough to stand up to that sort of pressure but there are others who find it easier to follow the easier option and just go with the crowd because that's accepted as the norm.
They buy them by the yard and I avoid them like the plague. I've done my fair share of propping up bars in inner city drinking dens in my time. The answer is simple, if you don't want to join in the hard drinking then you don't and if you are not strong willed enough to do that then you simply don't go there.
It's just the same as dieting. If you want to lose weight you don't spend every night going to restaurants and having three course meals and finishing with the biggest cream cakes they can find.
Alcohol is not a necessity for any society to function but the same can be said for tea, coffee, potatoes, cabbage and thousands of other things.
In reality, the question of if we need alcohol to function as a society is no more relevant than do we need coffee to function as a society. The answer is obviously no we don't but is that really of any importance to us as a society?
I am beginning to see the emergence of a new org experiment. We can call it The Errogie Challenge - 2 weeks alcohol free and then write about the experience.
Be warned folks, reality is a state of mind inflicted on us by a lack of alcohol!
Lolabelle
13-Mar-08, 11:57
Dave and I belong to a fellowship where nobody drinks, smokes or does drugs. I have been in this fellowship for 18 years and have no problems with this. It's not that we are not allowed to drink or smoke, it's just that we choose not to. And we certainly manage to have lots of fun and crazy nights out.
We have a night called a Lip Sync Concert where people lip sync to different songs, it is usually a scream and no alcohol is required. [lol]
I don't have an issue with anyone else drinking or smoking, used to do both myself, I just am glad I'm not a slave to anything anymore. And I was.
weeboyagee
14-Mar-08, 00:19
I am beginning to see the emergence of a new org experiment. We can call it The Errogie Challenge - 2 weeks alcohol free and then write about the experience.
Aye - like I managed in Woodbridge, Ontario Canuck? :D
WBG :cool:
George Brims
14-Mar-08, 00:57
I'm with whoever said alcohol is like a cream cake. Nice when you can have it, but not something to depend on. I did find though when I cut back on it a while ago (waistline issue!) that dropping off to sleep at night was harder!
George Brims
14-Mar-08, 01:00
I presume you are talking about ethanol for consumption.
Alcohol has many uses apart from drinking:
Communion wine
Besides the point that communion wine *is* drunk, let me point out that Church of Scotland communion wine is an alcohol-free substitute of some sort. I once spent a fine evening with some "sons of the manse" who had acquired some obsolete communion wine made before the change to the non-alcoholic kind.
Lolabelle
14-Mar-08, 06:17
We use grape juice for communion. :D
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