Crime in Cambridge - & 'Child Benefit' largesse

[percy toboggan]

It seems the recently arrived immigrant population in Cambridge has caused the hard pressed Chief Constable-ess to speak out for more resources.
Putting her head above the parapet of p.c. the chief constable has said - and I paraphrase 'some of these people bring customs and practices which are simply unacceptable in this country.' Meanwhile nearby Peterborough is said to be a simmering hot bed of community tension and faction fighting, the news of which is said to be somehow suppressed nationally. Strange, I spent some time there in the early nineties and it seemed a fairly quiet place.

When a link between 'immigration and crime' was last discussed here a long debate was eventually stifled. This seems to be a national trait now. One local M.P. was heard to comment on BBC Radio 4 'There is no doubt that immigration brings many good benefits for Britain and also raises some complex issues. Note the ommission of the counter word to good ie 'bad'...or even the conjunction 'but'.

I suppose it doesn't really matter that folks are driving cars around while they're full of vodka, carrying knives, or conducting vendettas on the streets of markets town eh, so long as we're getting our veg picked for next to nowt. Mushy peas are still as cheap as chips.

I wonder also, if anyone else feels it is wrong for relatively new E.U. citizens working here to be allowed to claim 'child benefit' for their kids back home in their country of origin? These people must think they have landed in paradise. A forthcoming BBC radio prog. will establish that thousands of them are 'double claiming' in their homeland. I suppose this is all part of dragging eastern Europe into the 21st. century and spreading out the cash (your cash, and mine ) in the interests of balance and fairness. Were the boot on the other foot I expect all the Latvians, Poles and Lithuanians etc. would be only too happy to fund a baby boom in Britain.:roll: Still at least it keeps the peace and prevents any of these Baltic States declaring war on the rest of us. We can all sleep easy in uz beds. [disgust]

[JAWS]

Within hours of the Chief Constable having made those comments there was somebody from the Government on the Radio not denying there was such a problem or suggesting what could be done to ease it but ducking the issue by saying the temptation to blame one section of Society should be resisted.

I interpret that as the political speak equivalent of Fawlty Towers, "Don't mention the War!". We know it's there but if you don't mention it we can pretend it doesn't exist.

Well it obviously is there, to one extent or another, it obviously needs addressing and it obviously needs some sort of answer and air-brushing it out of the picture while it grows is not doing anybody any favours.

I don't consider "kick them all out" to be any sort of solution and I don't think "slam the door shut" is either, but then again, neither is "don't do anything and it will sort itself out on it's own eventually" because it won't.

One of the things I do suspect is a cause of some of the problems ias that a few areas for on reason or another seem to be ending up with very disproportionate numbers of immigrants when compared to other areas. Perhaps a more even distribution of immigrants across the whole of Britain might be part of a solution but how to achieve that I have no idea.

[Ricco]

Percy - I quite agree with you. This ruling should also apply to our own brand of parasites - travellers. Any benefits should only be available to those who are contributing to (or have contributed to) the welfare system. We have a large problem with travellers here - they arrive on someone else's land, often by break and entry methods, (I thought that was called squatting?!) take hundreds to thousands of pounds to evict, leave a huge and unsanitary mess to clean up, get their education, medical treatment, etc on the state. How much to they contribute? Do they pay for road tax for their vehicles? Do they pay their fines? Nope - they seem to be a class of untouchables.

Jaws, I also agree with. It seems almost mandatory that a politician is qualified to duck and weave, dodge answering questions that they cannot answer. We have a local Lib candidate who tells the truth, answers all questions honestly and gets things done. She is often not invited to local gov't meetings because of this. But by God - she always gets our vote!

[olivia]

Three cheers for the Chief Constable of Cambridgeshire for having the guts to put her head above the parapet and tell it how it is. Cambridgeshire Constabulary, I believe, is one of the smallest in the country and now struggles with the huge influx of migrant workers into the county due to work such as fruit and veg picking that is available. There is also the other aspect of health care and education facilities having to be made available to all of these extra people. The government must provide the facilities and the money for the police and local authorities to cope with all of this.

[Boozeburglar]

Crime in Cambridgeshire is lower than the national average; and is reducing year by year in line with national trends, despite the increase in population. Most of the recent increase in Cambridgeshire’s population is due to immigration.

Seems these immigrants are lowering the crime rate. That conclusion is at least as believable as any suggestion that they are the source of any significant amount of current crime, and is more logical.

“We've been short-changed for a number of years, losing money as the population continues to grow. The profile of the county has changed dramatically and this simply isn't taken into account when Government allocates funding. We now deal with people from many different countries, speaking more than 90 different languages. While the economic benefits of growth are clear we need to maintain the basic public services infrastructure which means increasing the number of officers we have."

Here Julie Spence is merely calling for her force’s numbers to be enhanced to meet the national norm, as she currently has a shortfall. In discussing the complex needs of her community she refers to the number of languages spoken indicating how the force faces new challenges in dealing with a diverse population. This is a persuasive argument for increased resources.

Mrs Spence also points out that ‘the economic benefits of growth are clear’.

Far from putting her ‘head above the parapet’ as a brave spokeswoman for the embattled embittered non-inclusive minority who would happily spend the rest of their lives, head in sand, bemoaning the changes that make our society a dynamic exciting place to be, she is merely publicly making a case for giving Cambridgeshire the allocation of police it should have, something that is entirely within her remit as Chief Constable.

It is clear Mrs Spence does not subscribe to the IMMIGRATION = BAD philosophy championed by some of the limited thinkers on this board.

Nothing in anything I have read or heard has Julie Spence suggesting that there is a correlation between the increase in immigration and any increase in recorded crime. Care to point me in the right direction Percy, assuming I am wrong?

Thought not.

You would rather carry on weaving your straw man, perpetuating myths to support an ever decreasing circular argument.

[squidge]

Any benefits should only be available to those who are contributing to (or have contributed to) the welfare system.

Immigrants who are working here and paying national insurance and taxes ARE controbuting tot he welfare state-so whats the problem?

[crayola]

Crime in Cambridgeshire is lower than the national average; and is reducing year by year in line with national trends, despite the increase in population. Most of the recent increase in Cambridgeshire’s population is due to immigration.

Seems these immigrants are lowering the crime rate. That conclusion is at least as believable as any suggestion that they are the source of any significant amount of current crime, and is more logical.

“We've been short-changed for a number of years, losing money as the population continues to grow. The profile of the county has changed dramatically and this simply isn't taken into account when Government allocates funding. We now deal with people from many different countries, speaking more than 90 different languages. While the economic benefits of growth are clear we need to maintain the basic public services infrastructure which means increasing the number of officers we have."

Here Julie Spence is merely calling for her force’s numbers to be enhanced to meet the national norm, as she currently has a shortfall. In discussing the complex needs of her community she refers to the number of languages spoken indicating how the force faces new challenges in dealing with a diverse population. This is a persuasive argument for increased resources.

Mrs Spence also points out that ‘the economic benefits of growth are clear’.

Far from putting her ‘head above the parapet’ as a brave spokeswoman for the embattled embittered non-inclusive minority who would happily spend the rest of their lives, head in sand, bemoaning the changes that make our society a dynamic exciting place to be, she is merely publicly making a case for giving Cambridgeshire the allocation of police it should have, something that is entirely within her remit as Chief Constable.

It is clear Mrs Spence does not subscribe to the IMMIGRATION = BAD philosophy championed by some of the limited thinkers on this board.

Nothing in anything I have read or heard has Julie Spence suggesting that there is a correlation between the increase in immigration and any increase in recorded crime. Care to point me in the right direction Percy, assuming I am wrong?

Thought not.

You would rather carry on weaving your straw man, perpetuating myths to support an ever decreasing circular argument.Nice post Boozy.

Did you see the BBC News at Ten on the day she made that speech? They pointed out that most of her comparisons with her chosen 'similar' area were wrong. Not just wrong but hopelessly wrong. Kinda sad really because she clearly has something to say.

[percy toboggan]

Immigrants who are working here and paying national insurance and taxes ARE contributing tot he welfare state-so whats the problem?

So, the moment they get off the coach and start earning five and a half quid an hour they are entitled to free health care and child benefit. Not a bad deal considering forty hours work might bring in not much more than a couple of hundred quid week thereby not incurring too much income tax.
The problem is Britain is governed by people who fall over themselves to give opportunities to anyone who'll work for next to nowt.

I hear Gordon Brown is looking for a new slogan to encapsulate modern Britian...I'd suggest an old one 'Lions led by Donkeys'

[peter macdonald]

Thanks Boozy it fair saved me a lot o writing Nice post
PM
Is this purely an English problem ??

[squidge]

So, the moment they get off the coach and start earning five and a half quid an hour they are entitled to free health care and child benefit. Not a bad deal considering forty hours work might bring in not much more than a couple of hundred quid week thereby not incurring too much income tax.
The problem is Britain is governed by people who fall over themselves to give opportunities to anyone who'll work for next to nowt.

I hear Gordon Brown is looking for a new slogan to encapsulate modern Britian...I'd suggest an old one 'Lions led by Donkeys'

Oh Percy - loads of people work for nowt - loads of us have to work for nowt, school leavers dont earn bucket loads, hairdressers, cleaners, call centre workers, janitors, checkout assistants and many of them are white and english. Walk out of school and into a job earning NMW and you are entitled to free health care and child benefit. The rules are the rules and they fit everyone not simply immigrants. EVERYBODY has to start somewhere.... mostly thats not where they end up but they have to start there - earning tuppence before they can move on. Maybe you have been lucky in your life and never had to stack shelves to make ends meet like i and millions of others had to, or maybe you never had to take a cleaning job to afford a school trip for your kids like millions of others have had to. People on low wages SHOULD get free health care and child benefit - probably more so than those of us who are comfortably off.

[JAWS]

Here is a report from the local paper in Cambridgeshire which would appear to definitely of a more calm and considered nature. http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/region_wide/2007/09/21/af6b4fe4-6df2-4936-8d76-0c457d92f478.lpf
The very fact that she has felt the need to deny accusations of "Racism" made against her shows the immediate ill-considered response from some quarters who freely hurl the accusation about as an excuse to stifle any kind of debate at all because it obviously does not suit their purpose.

Her force, she says, is "stretched to the limit", trying to cope with an influx of migrants from Eastern Europe and a resulting increase in crimes such as cannabis farming, credit card scamming, drink-driving and sex trafficking.
She also points out a 17 fold increase in Drink Driving offences within 12 months amongst immigrants, habitual knife carrying by some is another problem common as is the fact that some Nationalities are bringing feuds from their own Countries here. An increase in Human Trafficking and Drug Related Crimes are also creating problems.
Her main complaint on those subjects is that she considers the main problem to be a lack of knowledge about what is and is not acceptable in Britain and that the problem arises mainly because their place of origin is probably far more relaxed on those matters than is the law here.

For those who want the short version of what Julie Spence is commenting on you can check:-
http://www.cambs.police.uk/newsappeals/news/newsitem.asp?NewsID=3326

For those who want to squabble over every detail of what’s gone up, what’s gone down and what’s just running round in circles the full Report of “The changing demography of Cambridgeshire: implications for policing” issued by the Cambridgeshire Police Authority you can find the full thing at
http://www.cambs.police.uk/images/newsitem/download/190907growth.pdf

For those who want to check the accuracy of those who like to cloud issues using by quoting selective statistics a check of Pages 19 - 22 and also Page 26 might prove useful.
It gives a far more accurate picture than those who carefully pick and choose the statistics they quote to suit their own biased point of view.

[Rheghead]

Wasn't it the Cambridgeshire police that were positively discriminating asian and blacks over whites for recruitment?:confused If so, then it throws any accusation of racism into a cocked hat, no? Or does it?

[percy toboggan]

Even the head of the race relations industry agrees with me, incomers should not be immediately entitled to free health, free schooling and child benefit.
I expect some of you will have a framed photo of Trevor on your wall. He's speaking a fair bit of common sense lately is the lad.

Full story in this morning's Mail. Perhaps only the English edition....I dunno.

[percy toboggan]

People on low wages SHOULD get free health care and child benefit - probably more so than those of us who are comfortably off.


Of course they should. In the eighties I claimed Family Income Supplement for a while. Remember that? Possibly not.
You have missed my point I think. Citizens/Subjects of this country are entitled to help and assistance. A safety net. We want to eradicate poverty, not foster it. We all have to 'start somewhere' - yes ! That starting point , in my eyes, begins with birth or as an adult a minimum term of contributions should be enforced - I'd suggest two years.

Sadly the minimum wage which I know many British people have to rely on is now seen as an aspirational benchmark to EU migrants who see the figure of five pounds plus per hour as riches beyond avarice. This willingness to work for such a modest amount is holding back the rates paid to indigenous workers. I know you're an intelligent woman 'Squidge' but if you cannot see the sense in this argument then I despair.

[scotsboy]

I no longer work in the UK, and do not pay UK tax - we are no longer eligable for Child Benefit, I see no problem there. Albiet that I worked and paid taxes in the UK for long enough.

[percy toboggan]

Thanks Boozy it fair saved me a lot o writing Nice post
PM
Is this purely an English problem ??

Possibly. As the powerhouse English economy provides most of the pot, and the great bulk of EU A8 migrants have chosen England as their destination of choice then you may have hit the nail upon it's head.
How interesting that such a concise post, which I initially dismissed as nonsense, could in fact speak volumes on the topic.

[_Ju_]

Possibly. As the powerhouse English economy provides most of the pot,

Here is another nonsensical post for you to dismiss, Percy, so you really really don't need to read any further.

German produced 19.4% of EU's GDP compared to the UK at 16.8% in 2007. Luxembourg, Ireland, Netherlands, Austria, Denmark, Belgium AND Sweden, have higher GDP per capita than the UK in 2007 (and in that order). So, a powerhouse of economy it may be, but it does not provide "most of the pot".

Offcourse europe is the ball and chain around UK's neck, suffocating it's economy and draining it's resources through the immigrants who arrive for the good life and the restrictive regulations emmited by Brussels. And please do take back the 385000 pensioners that retire to sun every year. They make use of the poorer european countries health and social services without having contributed a red euro-cent to them.

Hey... you know what? There are volumes of output in this thread, but I am pretty sure it is measured in metric tonnage of digested organic matter. I am going to log off, chill out .....and tomorow first thing I am going to Internal Revenue, Social services, etc to find out where all my free money is!

[peter macdonald]

Oh silly me perhaps its my inability to identify with your ideas thats the problem
Yes thats what is Thank God
PM

[percy toboggan]

[quote=_Ju_;275556]Here is another nonsensical post for you to dismiss, Percy, so you really really don't need to read any further.

German produced 19.4% of EU's GDP compared to the UK at 16.8% in 2007. Luxembourg, Ireland, Netherlands, Austria, Denmark, Belgium AND Sweden, have higher GDP per capita than the UK in 2007 (and in that order). So, a powerhouse of economy it may be, but it does not provide "most of the pot".....

quote]

I was of course writing in reply to Peter's remark 'is this a purely English problem' and attempting to rationalise the odd difference in opinion north of the only border that counts.(Carter Bar etc) the pot I was considering was the British one.... but anyway.....
I think half of those countries Ju mentions refused to take migrants from the A8.Certainly Germany and France did. One wonders why?
I wonder also which country is the highest net contributor to EU coffers?

You seem to have time to trawl around looking for info on this Ju so can you tell me? I wouldn't describe much of your stuff as 'nonsense' either by the way. A little wacky sometimes perhaps.

Peter: You're making a habit of striking that nail dead centre with your concise comments. Mind you, I'm not sure what God has to do with any of it.

[_Ju_]

Percy, your facts are often as sound as the facts on the front page of the Sun. Every single country in the EU recieves immigrants. I have lived in and visited many european countries and walking down a main street will prove immigration exists in these countries beyond doubt(and no, not only because of my presence on those streets).

Reading will also give you facts about immigration, but not the reading of partisan, inflamatory and populist newspapers that are working to an agenda. But too often all of us have made up our minds about something and prefer to tug the evidence to fit our idea or discard it when we can't make it fit than change the original opinion.

This is a country of emmigrants. Your history threw Scots to the four corners of the earth to better their lives. Caithness, untill the construction of Dounreay, was loosing people faster than a seive loses water. How quickly some forget that.

I keep on telling myself to ignore these threads. No ammount of debate makes an iota of difference to those sitting on opposite sides of the fence, even in the face of facts.

[percy toboggan]

Percy, your facts are often as sound as the facts on the front page of the Sun. Every single country in the EU recieves immigrants. .
I REPEAT GERMANY AND FRANCE - AND OTHERS DID NOT ACCEPT A8 WORKERS FOR AT LEAST TWO YEARS. They might accept them now, I'm not sure.

Your so sure of yourself Ju....but you're wrong. Incidentally I never read 'The Sun' so wouldn't know what it print son the front page.

Immigrants are one thing - migrant workers are another.

Did you honestly think A8 workers were welcome everywhere from May '05? - or was it '04 ?? How time flies - I can't remeber. If you did then you are not a very well informed person on this matter. Glass houses spring to mind :roll:

[_Ju_]

I REPEAT GERMANY AND FRANCE - AND OTHERS DID NOT ACCEPT A8 WORKERS FOR AT LEAST TWO YEARS. They might accept them now, I'm not sure.

Your so sure of yourself Ju....but you're wrong. Incidentally I never read 'The Sun' so wouldn't know what it print son the front page.

Immigrants are one thing - migrant workers are another.

Did you honestly think A8 workers were welcome everywhere from May '05? - or was it '04 ?? How time flies - I can't remeber. If you did then you are not a very well informed person on this matter. Glass houses spring to mind :roll:

I am sure I must be wrong. Rolling eyes and all that.

Regards,
Ju