View Full Version : How many grams per day?
pirateeye
31-Aug-07, 22:41
just curious on this...any body have any idea how many grams a day of meat (canned) should dogs have? i know it's different per breed but say for example how much should a yorkshire terrier get? a staffordshire bull terrier? a labrador? and a great dane? anyone know?
i have labradors and they get different amounts each because they have different needs but just wondered what others thoughts were?
I follow the BARF feeding regime for my dogs - I think it's much better for them & their tums... a pack of meat weighs 400 grams, so the basset gets 300 grams & the cavalier gets 100 grams, mixed in with complete meal.
Once a week, they get to devour a pack of raw chicken wings between them, & occasionally if the local butchers have any in, I get them a strip of lamb ribs too - happy dogs!
pirateeye
31-Aug-07, 22:53
sounds good. i bet they are very healthy happy dogs.:D
i was looking at a can of butchers dog food today, a large one, weighing 1200 grams and i looked at the feeding guide, the section for labs as i have two, and it said they should have one can per day! i though that was far too much. mine don't get that much and they are very healthy, loads of energy healthy coats...perfect.
it made me wonder what everyone else thought.
sounds good. i bet they are very healthy happy dogs.:D
i was looking at a can of butchers dog food today, a large one, weighing 1200 grams and i looked at the feeding guide, the section for labs as i have two, and it said they should have one can per day! i though that was far too much. mine don't get that much and they are very healthy, loads of energy healthy coats...perfect.
it made me wonder what everyone else thought.
If I have to feed cans to these two for whatever reason (busy weekend, no shopping done, etc!) Then yep, a 1200g can split 75% / 25% plus a few biccys thrown in too seems to do the trick - makes for very windy dogs though!
pirateeye
31-Aug-07, 23:10
ach well, my labs get less than that and they'r doing great. they do get treats and things during the day, like left overs from meals so... i was just curious. i guess every dog is different. like the black lab gets more than his wife because he has more energy, she loves to sleep so doesn't burn as much food off, so to stop her wieght increasing fast she gets less food...all works out good anyways:Razz
we have two yorkie,s and they,ll only eat what we eat. [fussy].we just feed them what they want to eat and they never put on any weight as they are so active. and their never ill. :Razz
just curious on this...any body have any idea how many grams a day of meat (canned) should dogs have? i know it's different per breed but say for example how much should a yorkshire terrier get? a staffordshire bull terrier? a labrador? and a great dane? anyone know?
i have labradors and they get different amounts each because they have different needs but just wondered what others thoughts were?
Rather than take advice from people here why not go along to your local vet and ask for advice there. Most vets provide a free nutrition advice service and will be able to weigh your dogs and give you proper advice....
Once a week, they get to devour a pack of raw chicken wings between them, & occasionally if the local butchers have any in, I get them a strip of lamb ribs too - happy dogs!
:eek::eek:
Hope you have good insurance - feeding dogs any type of meat with splinter prone bones in it is just asking for trouble.
pirateeye
31-Aug-07, 23:49
thanks madpict i know about asking vet for advice, have done before with the female as they can have bad weight issues. the last time i weighed my dogs they were five stone....not fully grown, i tried again the other week and they couln't fit on...i'd love to know how much they weigh.
i don't really think mine need their diet changed yet but because i saw the information on the can i just wondered what others thought. it's quite interesting:)
Metalattakk
31-Aug-07, 23:49
Sensible advice MadPict. Well said.
It amazes me that people with little knowledge of animal needs and behaviour are even allowed to own animals in the first place.
I guess they think it's their right to own animals the same as those morally inept parents believe it's their right to have children.
Education is the key. And strict controls. For both issues.
......Hope you have good insurance - feeding dogs any type of meat with splinter prone bones in it is just asking for trouble.
No, no, no.... the chicken & bones are not cooked - heaven forbid! They're raw & therefore do not splinter - I feed the boys a BARF diet... Bones And Raw Foods.... Recommended by our local vet, Ruth.
But yeah, they're both well insured, chipped, on the pet register, & spoilt rotten! :D
I have an extensive knowledge of BARF dog feeding - I've been doing it since I owned my first shepherd at 21!
A clip from the BARF site....
Isn't it dangerous to feed dogs chicken bones?
Never ever feed cooked bones as they are more likely to splinter and cause problems in a dog’s digestive system. People have been feeding dogs raw bones for years and rarely report problems. Chicken wings are the best bet, also a minced chicken with bone content. Try Prize Choice minced meats or the wings from the Chunks range.
Website can be found here: http://ukbarfclub.co.uk/about-barf-feeding/what-is-a-barf-diet.php
We very rarely eat processed foods ourselves - why should we expect our dogs to do so on a daily basis?
Canned dog food was brought out 50 years or so ago - what were dogs fed before this? :roll:
Chicken wing bones are small enough to get lodged and can cause problems that way.
Our dog was fed one of these wacko diets as a puppy before we got it - we suspect that it actually casued the food intolerance she suffered from in her earlier years. It took us ages to find a food which did not result in her puking everything up.
Sure, giving a dog a bone or raw hide chew now and again to ensure dental health is a good idea but I would never give a dog a bone small enough to be eaten in one go. Cooked or uncooked...
thanks madpict i know about asking vet for advice, have done before with the female as they can have bad weight issues. the last time i weighed my dogs they were five stone....not fully grown, i tried again the other week and they couln't fit on...i'd love to know how much they weigh.
i don't really think mine need their diet changed yet but because i saw the information on the can i just wondered what others thought. it's quite interesting:)
Pet obesity in the UK is a real problem. People think they are being kind by over feeding their pets (cats and dogs) but what they are doing is shortening the animals lives.
A Labs weight range should be around 25 - 30 kg. Sounds like yours, at 5 stone, is about right.
Easy way to weigh them, if you can pick them up, is to weigh yourself then yourself + dog and subtract your weight....
Personally, I don't think feeding dogs raw meats & bones is a wacko diet for them! As I said, feeding them canned dog food only started in the 50's, if the owners could afford it back then.
A dog raised on natural foods learns to chew properly & in 26 years, I've never had a choking problem. They have quite a varied diet - pigs trotters are a favourite & heaps nicer for them than dried hide chews.
As in human processed foods, canned dog foods are usually quite high in carbohydrate, causing increasd obesity - they're also quite high in grain material as well - even the so called top quality brands.
My boys get some fruit & veggies too - they both like carrots & broccoli & Burts loves bananas - I've even been known to make them dessert with mashed banana & yoghurt - and the granddaughter gets to lick the bowl! ;)
But, each to their own - it's a varied world we live in & I don't gasp in horror when I see my friend feed her furry poppet from a can - it's just the way we do things in our house, is all, as do many others.
pirateeye
01-Sep-07, 00:47
yes i know over feeding is cruel and i do my best with my dogs. i have no idea how much they weigh but am satisfied with their 'figures' Jake is big for a lab anyways but he is perfect really because i canfeel his ribs andback bone but not see them, they don't poke out. he also has a slight dip in his stomach area between bottom of ribs and hips. he is very engergetic and has a healthy coat. Bonny on the other handgets less food than Jake because she is a different dog altogether, although being a lab she isn't as big as jake, she is the chunky breed, and has big bones but is short. she has a nice amount of flesh on her, maybe a little lot but she isn't very fat. she loves to play football and is very healthy. soy are good on the diet they get now. i know people feed their dogs differently but they whole point of the thread was to see what people thought. i wouldn't give my dogs more than i know they need because, as you say, it's cruel and unkind to overfeed them:D
changilass
01-Sep-07, 01:03
Privateeye, we get our boy weighed when he goes for his annual check up and his worming tablets at the vets, worth asking next time you go to see if they will weigh them for you if you want to know.
At appx 70kgs ours are too heavy to lift lol
If they are healthy and getting a good balanced diet then I would tend to go off how they look. A lot depends on the dog itself.
Even dogs of the same breed, like people, can have different needs. A dog which is never still may well stay slim and fit whilst one of the same breed which is far less active could well get overweight on exactly the same diet.
I would simply ask the vet about the dogs weight and then adjust the feed up, down or the same as the case may be.
We all know people who eat food like it's going out of fashion and stay hatefully slim whilst other walk past a food shop and put a stone on so why should animals be any different?
pirateeye
01-Sep-07, 12:14
yes, my point was to see what others thought, i have no intentions of changing my dogs diet, they are perfectly fine the way they are...as they are different they have different needs which we tend to.
and yes i want to knowhow much they weigh. their next visit to vet is in a few weeks time so i will ask to get them weighed then. one has lots of muscles and i can't lift him at all so he is very heavy, but slim. just a very big built dog.
It really annoys me when I mention my dogs diet and I get told I am feeding the wrong type of food, i.e. raw food, raw chicken wings, bones etc.. Some of the healthiest dogs I've ever seen are on the BARF diet!
My dog is a toy Pug and she quite happily munches down on frozen, YES frozen, chicken wings and other animal bones. She's never happier when eating her raw feed!
Dogs are over 98% genetically like wolves, you don't see a wolf off out with a can opener or having it's meat cooked with gravy etc.. raw feeding is feeding the way nature intended, tinned dog food is laden with carboyhdrates, ash and cereals - not exactly a typical dogs diet!
A BARF diet provides a range of benefits. These benefits include:
Reduced doggy odour.
Naturally cleans teeth - no need for toothbrushes, de-scaling jobs, helps prevent gum disease.
The time it takes for a dog to chew a raw meaty bones give their stomach time to get the acids moving.
Produces firmer stools with reduced quantity.
Can reduce vet bills (healthier dogs)
Economical to feed in comparison to commercial dog foods.
Mirrors what nature intended them to eat in the wild.
Puppies develop at a more appropriate rate and quick growth spurts are avoided. A GOOD breeder will want to stop fast growth in any pup.
The ripping and chewing involved in eating raw meaty bones develops the jaw, neck, and shoulder muscles of a dog.
Better weight control which helps to reduce the symptoms of arthritis and obesity.Dogs on should have as varied a raw diet as possible, with lots of raw meaty bones, e.g. chicken wings, chicken necks, rabbit, oxtail, minced meats, lamb shanks, eggs and their shells, liver, heart, fish, yoghurt, veg (pulped), fruit, garlic, etc.
It's a proven fact that this diet is the healthiest option for any dog and saying that folk feeding dogs raw food should not be allowed to own them just confirms to me that some folk have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. [evil]
crustyroll
01-Sep-07, 18:12
Chicken wing bones are small enough to get lodged and can cause problems that way.
Our dog was fed one of these wacko diets as a puppy before we got it - we suspect that it actually casued the food intolerance she suffered from in her earlier years. It took us ages to find a food which did not result in her puking everything up.
Sure, giving a dog a bone or raw hide chew now and again to ensure dental health is a good idea but I would never give a dog a bone small enough to be eaten in one go. Cooked or uncooked...
Have you seen how much dry kibble swells when its wet? I've seen more cases of dogs choking with kibble than on raw diets. What do you think dogs lived on before 'commercial dog food' existed?
Do you realise that a lot of dogs food intorelances are because of over vaccinating them, feeding them food full of chemicals and additives and years of trying to convince ourselves that they are not meat eaters.
The majority of vets get very little training in college on food nutrition and the training they do get is from, guess who, the dog food manufacterers!!!!
My dog had a raw turkney neck last night, now she puked that up. Does that mean she has a food intolerance? No, it means she was a greedy pig and didnt take her time to eat it properly. The majority of dogs that do start to choke puke the bones up and crunch them down again until they are the right size to go down.
So you obviously dont know that you NEVER give a cooked bone of any sort to an animal, isnt that being irresponsible?? I have pasted the following below from a Britbarf list, have a read and see what you think?
Everyone is entitled to care for their animals in whatever way they see as appropriate but until you have tried it, dont knock it!
There have been new recalls of petfoods in the USA, The foods recalled are 5-pound bags of Krasdale Gravy dry dog food with a best-by date of July 16 and 17, 2008, that were sold in Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania. The company is also recalling 50-pound bags of Red Flannel Large Breed Adult Formula dry food, with a best-by date of July 12, 2008, that were sold in Pennsylvania. These companies are part of the Mars Corporation. under the banner of Mars Petcare US.
'Mars Bars' bars apart, the Mars Corporation is better known in pet circles over here for their 'Pedigree' and 'Whiskas' brands of species-inappropriate petfoods.
The latest (current during August 2007) advertising push on the 'Pedigree' "once a day" 'DENTAstix' is a huge in-joke to those of us promoting a more species-appropriate raw diet.
Multinational conglomerates, now including Mars, have been openly stating for a while that the dental health of dogs over 3 years old is generally deplorable. They have anyway never been able to deny that, because the sources are independent veterinary researchers, as well as those who are actually employed by these multinationals as scientists or consultants. These finding are published in peer reviewed journals, and often form the basis for seminars given at conferences, often sponsored by Waltham Research Centre, aka Pedigree, aka Mars Corp!
Far from denying it, now they are actually 'shouting' about it in their advertising for assorted 'dental hygiene' products. Naturally, there is absolutely no mention that the primary cause of this plaque, then tartar/calculus, then periodontal disease is the type of food that THEY manufacture and supply to the often gullible and generally unknowing pet owning public.
They THEN supply a 'dental hygiene' product, at VERY much higher profit margins than their mainstream petfoods (which have high profit margins to begin with!), so that they can provide a 'solution' to the problem that THEY have caused. The management, employees and shareholders of these companies must be laughing all the way to their respective various banks."
Nice bit of copy and paste from the BARF site there Julia....
So you obviously dont know that you NEVER give a cooked bone of any sort to an animal, isnt that being irresponsible??
My wife is a qualified vet nurse, now teaching animal care (including nutrition) and I have had years of experience with the care (and training) of working dogs.
I never stated that you should give dogs cooked bones.
I have looked at the BARF site (bad choice of acronym IMO) and of course it has links to food manufacturers (oh what a surprise).
How do you know that what they say is in the packet really is? Just like the big companies like Pedigree eh?........
Everyone is entitled to care for their animals in whatever way they see as appropriate but until you have tried it, dont knock it!
Don't deny that right - but just because you think it is right for your dog doesn't mean it is right for every dog. Just as I would not tell you not to be a vegan (if that were your choice).
Our dog is now 12 and her dental health is excellent. Even the canine she broke several years ago has not caused her problems. Just training a pet to accept teeth being brushed from an early age can help. But then you would probably claim that is all hype? "Flavoured toothpaste? BAH!! Rubbish!!!"
And just as you have GPs who suspect the MMR jabs as causing problems you have Vets and others in the field who claim that over vaccinating animals causes problems. We have seen the argument from the 'sharp end' if you want.
crustyroll
01-Sep-07, 19:56
Sure, giving a dog a bone or raw hide chew now and again to ensure dental health is a good idea but I would never give a dog a bone small enough to be eaten in one go. Cooked or uncooked...
This is where I picked up the response of cooked or uncooked from....obviously I picked you up incorrectly, so possibly others have too?
As to what is in the packets of food for Barfers, I don't do BARF, I do Raw Meaty Bones. Most of the stuff I feed my dogs on is not minced and packaged, it's whole carcasses, whole heart chunks, rabbits, fish, liver, meaty bones and I know where all of it has come from. The packets do not have cereal in them, or so it says, so yes it's taken at face value but its easy to see that even if there is, it can't be as much as whats in kibble.
Sorry to say but I havent yet met a qualified vet nurse that agrees with raw feeding and why? Because, again most of them are getting the same training and information that are given to the student vets.
Teeth brushing isnt hype, but not all dogs are happy to have this done, no matter what age you start. Just like I will concede that a raw diet doesn't suit all dogs. However I am more inclined to believe that the natural digestive system of a dog is suited to raw meat, bones, offal, vegetable matter than to processed and manufactured dog food. We (humans) haven't changed their digestive systems no matter how much food companies claim we have. You only have to look at a litter of raw fed pups to see how nature takes over and they KNOW EXACTLY how and in what order to crunch down a chicken wing to digest it.
There is no point in saying that "Vets and others in the field who claim that over vaccinating animals causes problems" It has actually been proven that it does, the literature is out there, we just don't get to see it until we go looking for it.
Do you know that vets are meant to tell you the side effects of prescribed medicines for your dogs? How many have had all the side effects listed and what reactions can occur?
Now you'll think that I'm anti-vet, which I am not, my last dog had many a trip in her old age to the vet and she was well treated. I now ask many questions and don't take what every vet says as being gospel. They are human and can get it wrong and it is our animals lives that are at stake. We must speak up for them and if that means not following convention like little sheep, then so be it.
How many people out there know that Parvo didn't exist until 1979 and that it is believed to have developed from a cat vaccine?
Sorry to say but I havent yet met a qualified vet nurse that agrees with raw feeding and why? Because, again most of them are getting the same training and information that are given to the student vets.
You implying that all RVNs are brainwashed? How many RVNs have you met? There are almost 4000 in the UK....
See how easy it is to misread a statement?
We (humans) haven't changed their digestive systems no matter how much food companies claim we have.
Humans (breeders) have tried to alter everything else...
crustyroll
01-Sep-07, 20:28
You implying that all RVNs are brainwashed? How many RVNs have you met? There are almost 4000 in the UK....
Humans (breeders) have tried to alter everything else...
And you won't have either, so I can only go on the ones I have met. When people are advised to take advice from their vet or RVN whose to say that they are actually correct? The BVA or the Royal College? Probably, but who do they get a lot of their funding from?? Not everyone is brainwashed, but don't say something is wacko when you haven't tried it, just like I haven't said any commercial dog food is a wacko diet.
Oh, I'm at the top of the list then considering I'm a dog breeder.
Nice bit of copy and paste from the BARF site there Julia....
Why thank you MadPict, I learnt that there in college you know!
My wife teaches VNs. Her college is not linked to the RCVS.
I stated earlier that our present dog was fed a wacko diet prior to us getting her as a puppy - we believe strongly that it was the cause of her early problems.
Will you as a breeder accept that the human drive to "improve" certain breeds does more harm than good?
My dog is sitting looking at me waiting to go out so I must get my priorities right........
crustyroll
01-Sep-07, 20:49
Well I do have 'normal' dogs that aren't too different from what they originally started out.
Yes, there are breeds of dogs out there that have been bred wrongly and altered too much but while we are in control of animals, it will always happen, unfortunately.
What do you breed? (avatar a clue?)
thought you should never feed bones to a dog?...thats what the vet told us when we got the boyo as a pup.....
i know my beastie never gets bones ....'cept gravy bones!
Can I just pop my head above the parapet a touch here....
Our vet is a raw food feeder herself - she has 2 lovely springer spaniels, glowing with health & energy & she was a great help when we first got our little cavalier from the RSPCA.
He had been badly treated & is now deaf - thanks to the previous owner & his boots [evil] But although he was extremely nervous around food when we first got him, he's fine now & enjoys his food just as much as the dustbin... I mean basset! [lol]
So, not ALL vets are against raw foods - some of them have come over to the dark side..........
crustyroll
02-Sep-07, 18:19
thought you should never feed bones to a dog?...thats what the vet told us when we got the boyo as a pup.....
i know my beastie never gets bones ....'cept gravy bones!
You should never ever feed cooked bones to a dog, they are much softer and splinter much worse than a raw bone.
When feeding raw meaty bones or things like rabbit, a lot of the bone is still covered in meat when it is swallowed. Most dogs have retained the natural ability to eat a bone in a certain order and break it down in the right way for digestion. There are some that struggle at first and you need to help them by holding onto the bone, chicken wing, rabbit leg etc.
There is also confusion in that a big dog will choke on a small pieces, ie chicken wing. I do know of dogs that when starting out have tried to swallow a wing whole and instead of actually choking they barf it back up! They will keep trying until they realise how to crunch it and once they've learnt they never forget.
I have Labradors and they all get chicken wings, the dogs range in size from 10 week old pups, a 4 month old and 3 adult dogs. The only thing I give in smaller portions to the pups are turkey necks as the meat is very tough with lots of bone.
JSherris - I have heard of vets that don't condem raw feeding and I think most vets realise that a raw bone is good for a dog. However, if you logically think about it, how many vets would advise this? They could be in a sticky situation if a dog did have a bone stuck (it can happen although rare) and the insurance company found out that a bone was given on the vets advice?
I am not anti-kibble, in fact, my dogs started out on some of the best kibble out there! I now have happier, healthier dogs on raw and would recommend it to anyone. Unfortunately, as other raw feeders have told me as well, we get shot down in flames for not following the 'norm'. Fifty odd years ago, we would have been the 'norm' and all the owners feeding kibble would have been the 'wackos' :lol:
JSherris - I have heard of vets that don't condem raw feeding and I think most vets realise that a raw bone is good for a dog. However, if you logically think about it, how many vets would advise this? They could be in a sticky situation if a dog did have a bone stuck (it can happen although rare) and the insurance company found out that a bone was given on the vets advice?
Yep, I hear what you're saying here. Ruth didn't ever recommend a raw food diet - it was me who first talked to her about it, because my ex in-laws were alsatian breeders (still are) & that's when I first started feeding dogs this way - back in the late 70's. She then told me that she followed this with her 2 dogs & then we find out that we use the same butchers shop! We swapped a few tips - she couldn't get her girls to eat fruit... they do now, as long as it's mixed with natural yoghurt!
In the surgery however, are the normal posters up advertising for the top dog food brands, as you'd expect, I think sometimes just like doctors, it's a case of 'do as I say, not as I do' for the majority of clients - that's the impression I get anyway.
My boys get a mixture of butchers bones & meats and prepacked meats with biscuits, fruits & veggies - it might not be everyone's way, but it's our way & it works for us.
At least, I've never seen the boys refuse a meal yet! [lol]
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