Would Spain veto Scottish membership of the EU?

[Corky Smeek]

It seems from comments made on another thread that some people would like to keep peddling the myth that Spain would veto Scotland's application to join the EU if ever we became independent.

This myth has been busted so many times by so many people yet still the Unionists on here want to try to scare people that it is true.

Let's just nail it once and for all:-

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-spain-politics-scotland/spain-would-not-oppose-future-independent-scotland-rejoining-eu-minister-idUKKCN1NP25P

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/11/spain-s-intervention-reminder-scottish-independence-could-work-nicely-eu

https://www.catalannews.com/politics/item/spanish-government-confirms-no-eu-veto-for-an-independent-scotland

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17688206.spanish-government-will-not-block-independent-scotlands-eu-membership/

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/leading-spanish-diplomat-insists-spain-would-not-block-an-independent-scotland-s-entry-to-eu-1-4942030

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-membership-spain-scotland/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/spain-would-not-obstruct-scottish-efforts-to-join-eu-t3dvg6t9r

[j4bberw0ck]

Well Corky, I guess I walked into that one, didn't I? :lol: I've up-repped you to acknowledge that I was wrong, and you're right on this particular issue (hopefully that won't grate too much :cool:) though comments made by Barroso, Schultz and others in recent times indicate that, as usual, they're not that interested in making life easy for anyone. Tell me - how do YOU see an independent Scotland structured? Currency? Central Bank? Defence and security? Taxation?


And although this is slightly off-topic, on a point of information, please don't include me in your group of "Unionists". As I said, my position is simple; if Scotland wants independence, Scotland should have it through an agreed democratic process. And when you get a vote which is split 52:48 in favour of independence, I hope Scotland doesn't have its own kilted Gina McMiller to go to Court to try to override the democratic will. Or Lib Dems who simply want to override the vote because, y'know, reasons.........

The other side of my view is that independence cuts both ways. It affects the rest of the country outside Scotland just as fundamentally as it affects Scotland. Accordingly, ALL UK citizens must have a vote on the matter. I very, very strongly suggest that if Her Eminence wants a pro-independence referendum result she should campaign for the English to be included in it. The Welsh and Northern Irish might have some interesting views, too.

And now, if you'll excuse me, I have some baking to get back to. A Dundee Cake! How marvellously patriotic. Covered in nuts. :eek::eek: :lol:

[j4bberw0ck]

Tell me - how do YOU see an independent Scotland structured? Currency? Central Bank? Defence and security? Taxation?


Nope, thought not. No more answers here than Ms Sturgeon had for Andrew Neil. Yesbutnobutyesbutnobut.....

[Corky Smeek]

Nope, thought not. No more answers here than Ms Sturgeon had for Andrew Neil. Yesbutnobutyesbutnobut.....

Do you seriously think I'm going to invite a pile-on from the mad Yoons on here?

Also, Andrew Neil has form when it comes to his anti-SNP tactics. He has already been found guilty of misleading viewers when he made false claims about levels of illiteracy in Scotland. https://inews.co.uk/news/andrew-neil-misled-viewers-with-false-scottish-literacy-statistic-in-bbc-salmond-interview-ofcom-finds-502935

He clearly has an agenda and a minor rap over the knuckles from OFCOM isn't going to stop him. He should be sacked as he has breached BBC rules on impartiality but he won't be.

[j4bberw0ck]

Do you seriously think I'm going to invite a pile-on from the mad Yoons on here?

Well, evidently you're not. But it does sort of reduce you to a lone voice howling regurgitated headlines in the far distance. And there's no shortage of those.

Andrew Neil is the only media interviewer who treats all politicians for what they are. Liars. To that extent they're all equal when they're sat in front of him, and I commend him for it.

[Corky Smeek]

"But it does sort of reduce you to a lone voice howling regurgitated headlines in the far distance"

If this is true why am I coming in for so much flak from the lunatic fringe on here?

"Andrew Neil is the only media interviewer who treats all politicians for what they are. Liars. To that extent they're all equal when they're sat in front of him, and I commend him for it."

I think the fact that you are prepared publicy to commend someone who has been independently assessed by OFCOM as having deliberately deceived the public is an interesting line for you to take. What is the difference between one set of liars and another?

[j4bberw0ck]

Andrew Neil's crime:

Neil conducted an interview with former Scottish first minister Salmond in 2017, ahead of the local elections in Scotland and a UK general election.
He asked the politician: "If services have been so well protected, why, after a decade of SNP rule, do one in five Scots pupils leave primary school functionally illiterate?"
Neil then repeated: "Why are one in five functionally illiterate?"
This, Ofcom has ruled, gave a "false impression that Mr Neil's question was founded on an established fact or source".
The BBC's subsequent handling of the complaint has also been criticised by Ofcom.

The biggest crime there is in Andrew Neil getting his grammar wrong. He meant, of course, "Why IS one in five functionally illiterate?" Croky, that's a pretty trivial example of "misleading the public" and pales into insignificance compared with, say, what Corbyn is doing at this moment with a bunch of paperwork.

[Corky Smeek]

Not quite. Some news reports from the time:-

However the BBC accepted that the figure was drawn from the 2009 Scottish Survey for Literacy and Numeracy, which was not the most recent research into school attainment, and should not have been quoted in the programme.

Furthermore, it “should have been made clear that the phrase ‘functionally illiterate’ was not used in that report and that its source was the education spokeswoman of the Scottish Conservatives."

Ofcom ruled that Mr Neil “misrepresented statistics on literacy among Scottish primary school children in a way that would have had the potential to affect negatively and erroneously viewers’ understanding of educational standards in Scotland, at a time when those standards were being strongly debated during an election in that country.”

Ofcom also said it was “concerned that the BBC did not act sooner to correct the statement” during an election period and should take action to improve its response to complaints during elections.

Not trivial at all. In fact I would go so far as to say he should have been shown the door.

[orkneycadian]

Neil conducted an interview with former Scottish first minister Salmond in 2017, ahead of the local elections in Scotland and a UK general election.

The same former First Minister Salmond who is awaiting trial for a long string of alleged sexual offences?

[Corky Smeek]

The Tories are now down to only 57 candidates in Scotland. Another one in disgrace following anti-muslim comments.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50577918

[j4bberw0ck]

Not trivial at all. In fact I would go so far as to say he should have been shown the door.

Well of course you would. But let's face it, a heavyweight pol like Salmond (a man who, by the way, I always rather liked for his chutzpah and intelligence even while detesting his politics) should have jumped on the assertion, enquired after the source of the figures and turned the whole thing back on Neil. Except that, presumably, Salmond didn't know what the real figures were (just like Corbyn didn't know the % of income tax paid by high earners last night) and so was left dangling on his own lack of a briefing. So his team, after the event, has to treat it as "an attempt to mislead". If so, these people wouldn't last 5 minutes in a real business negotiation. And yet they want to lead a country. Shambolic.

[Corky Smeek]

Yes but Neil (as do all interviewers) relies upon the element of surprise. He knows what questions he is going to ask and no politician, no matter how astute or well advised, can anticipate everything that s/he is going to be asked. So Neil picks some obscure report (or invents his own) and fires a load of statistics at the poor sucker who has got no real chance to refute them. Now, I am not suggesting for one minute that politicians should be given an easy ride in interviews but they should at least know that when they agree to one the interviewer will play hard but fair. Quite clearly that was not the case when OFCOM had to reprimand Neil and the BBC.

I admit, good politicians learn how to deal with these things and can usually bat them away. However, as we have seen at this GE a great many, even senior politicians, have had car crash interviews. Apart from the schadenfreude of watching someone you don't like squirm on live TV I am not sure what purpose they serve. Too many interviewers are like rottweilers. They constantly prevent the interviewee from answering by interrupting and haranguing and as a consequence we learn nothing. Would it not be better for us all if we got to hear interviews where the stress levels weren't turned up to 11?

However, I do agree with you about the calibre of some of our senior politicians. Neither of the two who are likely to be PM should be allowed anywhere near Downing Street.

[j4bberw0ck]

as we have seen at this GE a great many, even senior politicians, have had car crash interviews.

I rather feel that goes to the lousy calibre of politician we're stuck with these days, rather than to perceptive questions by interviewers.

[Corky Smeek]

I rather feel that goes to the lousy calibre of politician we're stuck with these days, rather than to perceptive questions by interviewers.

Well, you will get no arguments from me on that point.

[Corky Smeek]

I've just come across this video which explains matters clearly and succinctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqDUV6ludio

[mi16]

Heres hoping we never get to find out, doesn't look like opinions have changed much in recent history if the below site is to be believed.
So much for the "once in a generation poll" made in 2014, we shouldnt be revisiting this until 2030 but wee Jimmy is adamant.

http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-vote-in-the-in-a-scottish-independence-referendum-if-held-now-ask#line

[Corky Smeek]

Sorry, but I don't like sectarianism. Please take it somewhere else.

[mi16]

Sorry, but I don't like sectarianism. Please take it somewhere else.

what on earth are you on about you walloper?

[Corky Smeek]

To end every post you make with that acronym says it all.

[mi16]

To end every post you make with that acronym says it all.

Does it, please enlighten how that could be taken in any way as sectarian?
Unless of course you were a complete MOPE
Most Offended Person Ever, in case that is another acronym you fail to understand

[Corky Smeek]

Look, I don't want to get into any sort of argument with you over this but do an image search of that acronym on Google and tell me there is nothing to worry about in any of those images.

[mi16]

Look, I don't want to get into any sort of argument with you over this but do an image search of that acronym on Google and tell me there is nothing to worry about in any of those images.

You are the one coming on here accusing me of being sectarian mate, so dont go saying you are not looking for an argument when you clearly are.
I am quite happy to accept an apology and a retraction of your accusation then we can all move on.
Moses the well known Sectarian bigot once wrote

Psalms 95:7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice.

Australian sectarian bigoted band Empire of the Sun famously released a song in 2009 titled We Are The People

American sectarian bigot Iggy Pop released an album back in 2009 outrageously titled.....yup you guessed it We Are The People.