View Full Version : Longer hours for pupils...and teachers
There are plans announced by Ruth Kelly that pupils should start the schoolday at 8am and finish at 6pm. Ultimately this will enburden even more the teachers though 'latch door kids' might become a thing of the past.
There are plans announced by Ruth Kelly that pupils should start the schoolday at 8am and finish at 6pm. Ultimately this will enburden even more the teachers though 'latch door kids' might become a thing of the past.
Sometimes, Rheghead, your 'polls', and particularly your subject headings, are disingenuous at best.
The proposal is not that the schoolday should start at 8am and finish at 6pm.
The proposal is looking at the possibility of schools providing the facilities for extra-curricular activities in those additional hours. No teachers will be expected to work additional hours. There's been no suggestion that the proposal would be anything but voluntary for both schools and pupils. And finally, the proposal only covers schools in England.
If Drutt is right it's a good idea for parents who have to work. Of course if it was a bad idea, they would have tried it in Scotland first!
If Drutt is right it's a good idea for parents who have to work. Of course if it was a bad idea, they would have tried it in Scotland first!
He he, yeah, the new poll tax!
Seriously though, I expect that proposals like these for Scotland would be up to the Scottish Executive and that Ruth Kelly wouldn't get a look in.
At some point teachers will be required to change their working day to provide supervision at the start of the day and the end of the day. IOW they may end up working iirregular and split hours to provide the cover. This is something that will make teaching all the more unattractive to continuation of this career and for new starts. Teaching is already attracting too many who may be more suited doing something else. If the working conditions deteriate even further we will suffer a crisis in teaching. Teachers should be well trained, well paid and suited to a life of teaching. All too often we have seen gimmicky incentives to get people to enter teaching, I am refering specifically at the state funded teacher training schemes. This sounds great in theory but it just attracted the wrong people into teaching.
If teaching was advertised on the pay and conditions on a par with other profession sthen we will get more choice and better people filling those positions. I am tired of people sneering at teachers when I hear the old phrase "If you can't , Teach". If you can then you should teach, only by better pay and conditions for teachers can the Education authority draw these quality people from other walks of life.
Ok, I accept it may be for England for the time being, but these things tend to spread.
At some point teachers will be required to change their working day to provide supervision at the start of the day and the end of the day.
Why? Because you decided it must be the case?
We're only talking about schools being opened for longer hours to provide extra-curricular activities. I see no reason whatsoever why teachers need be involved just because the extra-curricular activities are taking place in the school (other than you having decided that it must be the case). Teachers' unions have been assured that this will not impact on teachers' hours, and have welcomed the proposals.
This is something that will make teaching all the more unattractive to continuation of this career and for new starts. Teaching is already attracting too many who may be more suited doing something else. If the working conditions deteriate even further we will suffer a crisis in teaching. Teachers should be well trained, well paid and suited to a life of teaching. All too often we have seen gimmicky incentives to get people to enter teaching, I am refering specifically at the state funded teacher training schemes. This sounds great in theory but it just attracted the wrong people into teaching.
If teaching was advertised on the pay and conditions on a par with other profession sthen we will get more choice and better people filling those positions. I am tired of people sneering at teachers when I hear the old phrase "If you can't , Teach". If you can then you should teach, only by better pay and conditions for teachers can the Education authority draw these quality people from other walks of life.
You're welcome to have a rant about the public perception of the value of teaching, and the salaries paid to teachers, but I don't see why you're hijacking this issue to do it.
Ok, I accept it may be for England for the time being, but these things tend to spread.
Do they? Perhaps you could take it up with your MSP, and let him know that you don't want any of these nasty English ideas seeping into Scotland.
It is a good job that I am not retaliatory in nature or were you just trying to provoke me for the sake of it? Not for the first time I'm sure. You have a good and well documented history of provoking and nit picking other members as well, notably Katarina. Please make valuble posts in which you express YOUR opinion without belittling others. Paricularly you seem to persue Katarina and I like Ahab and his whale, don't forget that during his pursuit, if you have read the novel, Ahab brought about his own demise. I don't want you or I being banned for trolling....please
Anyway back on track with this issue, I cannot see how supervision is to be provided at 8am without any impingement on the existing working conditions of teachers.
Behave.
Rheghead - Drutt is right
There is already Out of school provision where the provision is not run by teachers. The Out of school care federation in inverness provide a whole range of this type of childcare accross the highlands. None of which is run by teachers. http://www.ooscfed.org
i hope this is a serious attempt to provide qulaity available childcare for women that need this facility. We should be pushing for this to come to caithness as the childcare facitlities there are appalling.
I'm not trying to provoke you, Rheghead (provoke you into what I wonder) but I was pointing out that your argument about the effects on the working hours of teachers appears to be groundless. There has been no suggestion, even by teachers' unions, that this will increase their hours. Yet still you push the idea.
Anyway back on track with this issue, I cannot see how supervision is to be provided at 8am without any impingement on the existing working conditions of teachers.
The mere fact that there's been no suggestion that teachers need be involved in said supervision, perhaps?
Anyway back on track with this issue, I cannot see how supervision is to be provided at 8am without any impingement on the existing working conditions of teachers.
because it is provided by qualified child care workers who are employed to deliver Out of school care provision :eyes
i hope this is a serious attempt to provide qulaity available childcare for women that need this facility. We should be pushing for this to come to caithness as the childcare facitlities there are appalling.
A very good point, squidge. I have friends with young children in areas in both Scotland and England and most have had serious problems with accessing childcare (particularly affordable childcare).
From what I've read so far, it will be voluntary for schools to take part in the scheme, but all children will be guaranteed places (though obviously it will still be voluntary for them if their parents want them at home instead). I'd be interested to see how they could get it to work, but if they could it'd be very welcome.
Anyway back on track with this issue, I cannot see how supervision is to be provided at 8am without any impingement on the existing working conditions of teachers.
The article I read stated - "The clubs will be supervised by volunteers or organised by private companies"
Thats exactly it Donnie - lets hope its not volunteers though but paid qualified childcare workers. There needs to be some jobs for people that want to work with children as well as high quality child care.
Thats exactly it Donnie - lets hope its not volunteers though but paid qualified childcare workers. There needs to be some jobs for people that want to work with children as well as high quality child care.
It's not explicitly childcare though, squidge, from the looks of the (limited) information we've had so far. Certainly the childcare aspect will be more pertinent with regards to the additional hours in primary schools, but I wouldn't have thought it an issue for the high schools.
Perhaps the local authorities may be inclined to fund some youth worker hours at those times in the schools, but it largely looks as though it'll be used for language and sports clubs and the like. For example, they could get lecturers/tutors from nearby colleges and universities to run science and language clubs. Local sports clubs (likely to be run by volunteers) may welcome the opportunity to use school facilities. Other groups run by volunteers (such as Guides) could be held during those times too.
I guess we could speculate a great deal about how it will work (as I just have) but I'd really like the proposals to be fleshed out so we could get a better idea of how this will work in practice.
The article I read stated - "The clubs will be supervised by volunteers or organised by private companies"
I forgot to say - yes I read that too. I'd be interested to find out how the partnership with private companies will actually work. Well, I'm a little concerned actually. This could result in some issues for parents, and I'm a little uncomfortable all over with the private companies bit.
My kids' school already provides a breakfast club which opens at 7.45am and an after-school club which runs until 6pm. It uses school premises, but is run independently of the school, and with no involvement from teachers. They employ trained staff and a few high-school kids as helpers. It works pretty well, but they have a bit of trouble getting enough parents to serve on the board of trustees.
I'd be interested to find out how the partnership with private companies will actually work.
If its anything like PFI it will involve local authorities signing a 20-year contract promising to pay three-times the going rate for unqualified childminders and agreeing to pay compensation if any more than three or any fewer than two children need to be cared for at any one time... not that I'm bitter you understand ;)
If its anything like PFI it will involve local authorities signing a 20-year contract promising to pay three-times the going rate for unqualified childminders and agreeing to pay compensation if any more than three or any fewer than two children need to be cared for at any one time... not that I'm bitter you understand ;)
Well I had read that, despite Ruth Kelly jumping on Jamie Oliver's bandwagon and promising better-quality school meals, some local authorities had already signed 20-year contracts with catering companies that provide school meals at less than 50p per head. 20 years??!! What idiots in which councils thought that'd be a good idea? Doh!
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