View Full Version : In case you missed it.
The media seem to have been deafeningly silent about a major story in the last week.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6607757.stm
Jeemag_USA
07-May-07, 00:02
Hmm, not sure what the full impact of that will be. I do know that we should have cheaper airfares in the USA. After 9/11 they said airfares would plummet because less people woudl be flying, didn't happen. It is cheaper to fly from the UK to the USA than it is to fly from the USA to to Europe, I never really understood that, seing as its cheaper for US Airlines to gas up and go from here than it is for airlines in Europe. On average I pay about $100 to $200 more for a transatlantic return flight than people in Europe do?
Hmm, not sure what the full impact of that will be.
It was the "The pact is designed to boost trade and investment by harmonising regulatory standards, laying the basis for a US-EU single market." bit that hit me not all the waffle about cheaper air fares quickly inserted after it.
"laying the basis for a US-EU single market", don't we get a referendum this time?
Jeemag_USA
07-May-07, 00:14
It was the "The pact is designed to boost trade and investment by harmonising regulatory standards, laying the basis for a US-EU single market." bit that hit me not all the waffle about cheaper air fares quickly inserted after it.
"laying the basis for a US-EU single market", don't we get a referendum this time?
But isn't laying the basis for different from it being an actual reality, what they are saying is it pathes the way for but isn't actually here. So nothing set in stone right? Just groundwork.
The talks have been going on for months and the "open skies" part was agreed weeks ago. What exactly is the problem with it or is it just because that dreaded word “America” is mentioned?
More worrying is the fact that three years ago it was predicted that China would overtake America as the World’s biggest polluter by 2025. More recently the prediction was for it to occur by 2010.
Now China will overtake America later this year and it’s economy is currently growing at 11% per year.
China, although it signed the Kyoto Agreement on Global Warming, is not bound by it’s restrictions and has no plans for making any reductions in the pollution it creates. China burns over 2 billion tons of coal a year and has 16 of the world’s most polluted cities.
Within the last two weeks China was going to announce it’s first plan to deal with climate change. They would appear to have suddenly changed their minds.
Something else that there seems to have been a deafening silence about in the Media.
j4bberw0ck
07-May-07, 08:59
It was the "The pact is designed to boost trade and investment by harmonising regulatory standards, laying the basis for a US-EU single market." bit that hit me not all the waffle about cheaper air fares quickly inserted after it.
"laying the basis for a US-EU single market", don't we get a referendum this time?
That bit's about giving the EU control over the terms on which European countries can and can't do business with the US. It's about "a level playing field" so a relatively efficient economy and trader like the UK can't offer better terms than a relatively inefficient one, like (at the moment) France.
If we didn't get the promised referendum on the Treaty of Berlin at the end of March, which:
>> removed the final barriers to the UKs integration into Europe;
>> made it practically impossible for us to leave the EU;
>> will result in control of the armed forces being handed to Europe as part of the future European Army;
>> paved the way for a European President and Foreign Minister;
>> was signed on our behalf by Angela Merkel as Chancellor of Germany during its Presidency
why on earth would we get a referendum on a small matter such as trade?
China, although it signed the Kyoto Agreement on Global Warming, is not bound by it’s restrictions and has no plans for making any reductions in the pollution it creates
As you say, China was making some encouraging noises, but as for the rest of it, it just highlights what a political botch-up Kyoto was and will remain. A white elephant and a "jolly" for the politicians.
seing as its cheaper for US Airlines to gas up and go from here than it is for airlines in Europe. On average I pay about $100 to $200 more for a transatlantic return flight than people in Europe do?
I think it may be two things. There are more European airlines flying from Europe to the US than vice versa, so there's a competitive pricing element outbound that may not be present in US airline pricing. When the European carrier turns round and flies back there's no need to reduce the ticket price to the outbound cost because they only need to match the outbound US ticket price, and let's face it, any Europeans on the return leg want to get home.
It would be interesting to compare the Europe - US flight cost for an outbound European flight and a US carrier on its return leg home - see if the American carriers are cheaper on the return leg than the outbound.
May also be something in that airline fuel is always priced in USD and at the moment UK carriers in particular benefit in their fuel costs because of the weakness of the USD. Then there are airlines like Virgin adding to competitive pressure, and hopefully soon, Ryanair will put an absolutely huge cat in amongst some fairly fat and lazy pigeons :cool: .
God bless capitalism! :lol:
Boozeburglar
07-May-07, 09:10
While any increase in pollution is a worry, I think we should remember that China has over four times the population of the USA.
They are already acknowledging a need to do something about their pollution levels.
The USA, as a nation, only just made that progress.
I would like to see the USA do much more unilaterally to lead the way, rather than falling back on excuses that they must remain economically competitive.
But isn't laying the basis for different from it being an actual reality, what they are saying is it pathes the way for but isn't actually here. So nothing set in stone right? Just groundwork.
It means they're headed that way and using the same tactics as last time when we were told we were signing up to a common agricultural policy but we ended up with a federal government as one by one our national freedoms are eroded away, everyone carrying European passports and most of Europe using the same currency.
At the same time America is forming a North American Union to include Canada and Mexico, this is the formation of the global empire by stealth and the only people to benefit will be the rulers of that empire.
I read on this forum of the jubilation over the SNP victory in the election, people seem to have a desire to be free from English domination can't, wait to be out of the frying pan but are heading into an inferno.
The talks have been going on for months and the "open skies" part was agreed weeks ago. What exactly is the problem with it or is it just because that dreaded word “America” is mentioned?
It doesn't matter what I post there's JAWS with his personal attacks, fred is a communist, fred is an atheist, fred is a conspiracy theorist fred is anti American.
I'm not anti American I love the American people it's the corporate monsters who decide their government and dictate their policy that I am against, the same monsters that have their sights on Europe.
If we didn't get the promised referendum on the Treaty of Berlin at the end of March, which:
>> removed the final barriers to the UKs integration into Europe;
>> made it practically impossible for us to leave the EU;
>> will result in control of the armed forces being handed to Europe as part of the future European Army;
>> paved the way for a European President and Foreign Minister;
>> was signed on our behalf by Angela Merkel as Chancellor of Germany during its Presidency
why on earth would we get a referendum on a small matter such as trade?
We wouldn't because they don't have to any more, we already signed in blood, the point is that we should in a free and democratic society.
The media seem to have been deafeningly silent about a major story in the last week.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6607757.stm
No they weren't - you probably were too busy Googling and missed that week....
The media seem to have been deafeningly silent about a major story in the last week.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6607757.stm
With trade, comes dialogue. With dialogue, comes peace.
j4bberw0ck
07-May-07, 12:15
We wouldn't because they don't have to any more, we already signed in blood, the point is that we should in a free and democratic society.
We don't often agree, but when we do the pleasure is in no way diminished by the infrequency :cool: :D
Good one.
zenmaster
07-May-07, 21:37
At the same time America is forming a North American Union to include Canada and Mexico, this is the formation of the global empire by stealth and the only people to benefit will be the rulers of that empire.
I read on this forum of the jubilation over the SNP victory in the election, people seem to have a desire to be free from English domination can't, wait to be out of the frying pan but are heading into an inferno.
Do you mean the inferno of a one world government, single currency, world army and a microchipped population linked to a global computer? Union with England won't save us from that, but in the short term Scotland might just become a more self-confident country.
Jeemag_USA
07-May-07, 21:54
It doesn't matter what I post there's JAWS with his personal attacks, fred is a communist, fred is an atheist, fred is a conspiracy theorist fred is anti American.
I'm not anti American I love the American people it's the corporate monsters who decide their government and dictate their policy that I am against, the same monsters that have their sights on Europe.
Don't worry Fred, your not the only one seeing it, first paragraph offensive from the off but everyone else will get warnings instead for trolling. Its plainly obvious there is a small amount of individuals on here who see it as their calling to bait you until you turn on them, pretty childish.
Don't worry Fred, your not the only one seeing it, first paragraph offensive from the off but everyone else will get warnings instead for trolling. Its plainly obvious there is a small amount of individuals on here who see it as their calling to bait you until you turn on them, pretty childish.
Well, to be fair to others, Fred does on times bring it on himself.
Don't worry Fred, your not the only one seeing it, first paragraph offensive from the off but everyone else will get warnings instead for trolling. Its plainly obvious there is a small amount of individuals on here who see it as their calling to bait you until you turn on them, pretty childish.
I noticed as well.
I have been following the post with interest because I grew up under the "free trade" agreement between Canada and the US and I am aware of some of the difficulties agreements like that entail.
The US is a big economy so any deals or agreements with them carry a certain risk or uncertainty. Even if they were a small player it would/should be very newsworthy given the scope of the change and the potential impact for both sides.
Nothing anti-American in the original post or this one - Fred is right it should be given a higher presence in the news.
Dynamic Sounds
08-May-07, 02:48
Jeemag_USA -
On average I pay about $100 to $200 more for a transatlantic return flight than people in Europe do?
I know what you mean Jeemag. When the other half flys over here from NY, I am about 5% - 10% cheaper paying from my side in Stirling that she is paying in US$, and that is with an American airline. Never have managed to get an explanation for it, but makes no sense to me!
Hmm, not sure what the full impact of that will be. I do know that we should have cheaper airfares in the USA. After 9/11 they said airfares would plummet because less people woudl be flying, didn't happen. It is cheaper to fly from the UK to the USA than it is to fly from the USA to to Europe, I never really understood that, seing as its cheaper for US Airlines to gas up and go from here than it is for airlines in Europe. On average I pay about $100 to $200 more for a transatlantic return flight than people in Europe do?
That does surprise me that flights are more expensive in the US.
If we were just talking about one-way fligths it could make a difference. More fuel would be burnt depending on the prevailing winds but that should balance out in a return flight.
Well, to be fair to others, Fred does on times bring it on himself.
All I can do is tell it how it is.
Now if you had been here last August and read this (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=12475&highlight=dollar) thread you would have seen me saying the dollar was strong and j4bberw0ck saying it was weak, who do you think history proved right?
http://www.graven-images.org.uk/temp/chart.jpg
Oh and as an aside the result of Israel's own investigation into the bombing of Lebanon is due out next week, do you think they will say it was justified or do you think they will agree with what I said last August and do you think they will get called anti-semitic when they do?
j4bberw0ck
08-May-07, 11:21
Oh, that is joyous. Fred, you've misread your own graph!
http://www.graven-images.org.uk/temp/chart.jpg
It doesn't show a declining Pound, it shows a strengthening one measured against the dollar. Read the axes again, and think about it. What it shows is the declining strength of the dollar, which no one wants to hold at the moment for all the reasons I outlined in the thread you linked to.
So, I don't think you're quite ready for promotion to Official Godlike Status yet:lol:
Oh, that is joyous. Fred, you've misread your own graph!
http://www.graven-images.org.uk/temp/chart.jpg
It doesn't show a declining Pound, it shows a strengthening one measured against the dollar. Read the axes again, and think about it. What it shows is the declining strength of the dollar, which no one wants to hold at the moment for all the reasons I outlined in the thread you linked to.
So, I don't think you're quite ready for promotion to Official Godlike Status yet:lol:
Oh that is really 'cool'. It just shows that certain orgers base their posts on complete misrepresentaion. Well done for spotting that.
Oh, that is joyous. Fred, you've misread your own graph!
It doesn't show a declining Pound, it shows a strengthening one measured against the dollar. Read the axes again, and think about it. What it shows is the declining strength of the dollar, which no one wants to hold at the moment for all the reasons I outlined in the thread you linked to.
So, I don't think you're quite ready for promotion to Official Godlike Status yet:lol:
Hmmm, I looked and looked at fred's graph and could not, for the life of me, figure out his point.
I went away and had a coffee then came back and tried again, but no, it was still a case of gradually weakening dollar.
And nice interjection of Israel into the subject fred...[lol]
Oh, that is joyous. Fred, you've misread your own graph!
No I didn't you did.
You said the dollar was weak last August and it has fallen steadily since.
Think about it.
Hmmm, I looked and looked at fred's graph and could not, for the life of me, figure out his point.
I went away and had a coffee then came back and tried again, but no, it was still a case of gradually weakening dollar.
And nice interjection of Israel into the subject fred...[lol]
Ah the clique is out in force today, if the facts prove you wrong just use weight of numbers.
So if the dollar was weak last August what the hell would you call it now?
Ah the clique is out in force today...
Is it? Where? I must keep a look out for it...
...if the facts prove you wrong just use weight of numbers.
Sorry, I just was glad that I was not the only one who felt you were incorrectly reading that graph. So you were wrong in your use of that graph to make your point? Not my fault...
So if the dollar was weak last August what the hell would you call it now?
An excellent time to buy dollars for your holidays, that's what I would call it.
Almost 2 for 1 is a good rate for us Brits if we are travelling to the US. I might even go and buy a huge amount of dollars for my next trip. Stock up if you will...
Better $2 to the £1 than £2 to $1 - although I dare say the tourist industry is feeling the drop in US tourists spending here.
Sorry, I just was glad that I was not the only one who felt you were incorrectly reading that graph. So you were wrong in your use of that graph to make your point? .
Mad Pict!!! How could you!!! You know by now Fred is never wrong [lol]
j4bberw0ck
08-May-07, 15:24
You said the dollar was weak last August and it has fallen steadily since.
Think about it.
Yes. And now it's even weaker. A more gracious man might have acknowledged the mistake instead of trying to bullshine his way through it. A man with a better grasp of the subject might have explained himself more clearly if the point he wanted to make wasn't the one made in the graph he linked to.
Strength is relative. The Pound is strong just now because interest rates are high and going higher; and because investors worldwide have more confidence in it than the dollar. The dollar is weak and might very well get weaker yet because investors don't have confidence and aren't buying it; in fact, the Chinese just offloaded some more to invest in euro and gold bullion - in addition to the US$1 billion profit they've made by buying a goodly chunk of the UK's gold reserves when that genius Gordon Brown sold them. They just waited for the price to go back up.
All I can do is tell it how it is.
Now if you had been here last August and read this (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=12475&highlight=dollar) thread you would have seen me saying the dollar was strong and j4bberw0ck saying it was weak, who do you think history proved right?
Oh, that is joyous. Fred, you've misread your own graph!
]It doesn't show a declining Pound, it shows a strengthening one measured against the dollar. Read the axes again, and think about it. What it shows is the declining strength of the dollar, which no one wants to hold at the moment for all the reasons I outlined in the thread you linked to.
Is it showing both? A declining dollar does not mean a strengthening pound on the world stage just relative to the US. I thought that was what he was saying; the dollar was strong and is now weak? He didn’t make mention of the pound declining.
Oh that is really 'cool'. It just shows that certain orgers base their posts on complete misrepresentaion. Well done for spotting that.
Hmmm, I looked and looked at fred's graph and could not, for the life of me, figure out his point.
I went away and had a coffee then came back and tried again, but no, it was still a case of gradually weakening dollar.
Which is fred’s point I think?
No I didn't you did.
You said the dollar was weak last August and it has fallen steadily since.
Think about it.
Yes. And now it's even weaker. A more gracious man might have acknowledged the mistake instead of trying to bullshine his way through it. A man with a better grasp of the subject might have explained himself more clearly if the point he wanted to make wasn't the one made in the graph he linked to.
Strength is relative. The Pound is strong just now because interest rates are high and going higher; and because investors worldwide have more confidence in it than the dollar. The dollar is weak and might very well get weaker yet because investors don't have confidence and aren't buying it; in fact, the Chinese just offloaded some more to invest in euro and gold bullion - in addition to the US$1 billion profit they've made by buying a goodly chunk of the UK's gold reserves when that genius Gordon Brown sold them. They just waited for the price to go back up.
So as much as everyone is trying to get in their little irksome jabs
Everyone agrees with Fred’s graph that the dollar is getting weaker since last August. Whether the dollar was strong and now weak, or weak and now anaemic is relative. As j4bberw0ck points out Strength is relative (at one time you could buy $5 for a £1 does that mean the pound is now weak?) and I might add currencies can be doing well against one currency and weak against another - it is all relative.
So we now have a series of posts trying to put down fred over a graph that shows the dollar loosing value against the pound which is consistent with what he said (see above notes about being relative)
The US dollar has not just lost out to the pound, if you look at the same time frame the US dollar lost value to the Euro as well,
If you compare the pound to the euro in the same time frame it is almost unchanged
It looks like a case of a weakening dollar and not a strengthening pound.
Fred's graph is correct it does show a stronger dollar in august compared to May. Whether you could call it strong in August or just stronger can be debated but I am not sure we will get an answer.
Oh and as an aside the result of Israel's own investigation into the bombing of Lebanon is due out next week, do you think they will say it was justified or do you think they will agree with what I said last August and do you think they will get called anti-semitic when they do?
Fred, if you can back your arguments up with clear, consise and unbiased facts then maybe I would not take issue with you. You just don't do that - you link to sources that are clearly biased and take them as gospel.
As to the Isreali investigation into the bombing of Lebanon I really hope that there are procecutions for that - to drop the amount of cluster bombs they did, when they did and where they did is truly unjustified.
Yes. And now it's even weaker. A more gracious man might have acknowledged the mistake instead of trying to bullshine his way through it. A man with a better grasp of the subject might have explained himself more clearly if the point he wanted to make wasn't the one made in the graph he linked to.
Would you like to see the graph against the euro it's pretty much the same.
Strength is relative. The Pound is strong just now because interest rates are high and going higher; and because investors worldwide have more confidence in it than the dollar. The dollar is weak and might very well get weaker yet because investors don't have confidence and aren't buying it; in fact, the Chinese just offloaded some more to invest in euro and gold bullion - in addition to the US$1 billion profit they've made by buying a goodly chunk of the UK's gold reserves when that genius Gordon Brown sold them. They just waited for the price to go back up.
Wars aren't cheap, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have already cost America more than WWII did. Previous wars have been financed in two ways, by increasing taxes and by issuing war bonds. Bush has reduced taxes for the wealthy and there have been no war bonds issued so where do you think the money is coming from?
No I didn't you did.
You said the dollar was weak last August and it has fallen steadily since.
Think about it.
Er, and it was - read your graph again and you will see that the pound has risen by less that 10% against the dollar.
Hardly a big rise is it.
j4bberw0ck
08-May-07, 19:12
Would you like to see the graph against the euro it's pretty much the same.
No, not really. I could probably draw it for you. I do a certain amount of this stuff as a job, and used to do a lot of it for a job. But that was a wee while ago, I admit.
j4bberw0ck
08-May-07, 19:25
It looks like a case of a weakening dollar and not a strengthening pound.
Yes. The point that fred made (and chose to raise again here) was that he'd told it "as it was" back in August and - crucially - had been proved right. He presented the graph as proof. The graph demonstrates the polar opposite.
If you read the thread, you'll see that he was claiming the dollar was strong because it's linked to oil, not gold - though he did make, I think, the point that the US dollar has been fiduciary for years - and that oil prices were high.
Besides being wrong then, it's wrong now. Worse, it's fatuous twaddle. The value of the dollar reference other currencies is set by the international currency markets, who look a lot more widely than oil prices. If fred hadn't been claiming rightness on this issue and so by extension, others, I'd have let it be. But presenting a graph that shows him to be plain wrong, claiming it makes him right and infallible, and then trying to bull his way through the whole mess, is just silly. And uncharacteristic, I must say. I don't agree with fred 90%+ of the time but he's a man who has a claim to having been right on a number of issues.
Right. Now I must go and watch some paint dry, or something. Oh yes. Wash the dishes. :lol:
Yes. The point that fred made (and chose to raise again here) was that he'd told it "as it was" back in August and - crucially - had been proved right. He presented the graph as proof. The graph demonstrates the polar opposite.
If you read the thread, you'll see that he was claiming the dollar was strong because it's linked to oil, not gold - though he did make, I think, the point that the US dollar has been fiduciary for years - and that oil prices were high.
Besides being wrong then, it's wrong now. Worse, it's fatuous twaddle. The value of the dollar reference other currencies is set by the international currency markets, who look a lot more widely than oil prices. If fred hadn't been claiming rightness on this issue and so by extension, others, I'd have let it be. But presenting a graph that shows him to be plain wrong, claiming it makes him right and infallible, and then trying to bull his way through the whole mess, is just silly. And uncharacteristic, I must say. I don't agree with fred 90%+ of the time but he's a man who has a claim to having been right on a number of issues.
Right. Now I must go and watch some paint dry, or something. Oh yes. Wash the dishes. :lol:
The old thread is an interesting thread with a lot of people making claims about where the value of the dollar comes from. I think most people here would agree there are MANY influences on currency and many reasons that currencies fluctuate. Whatever reason for a strong or weak dollar (any other currency)are open to debate.
As I said above strong and weak are relative terms. The dollar was stronger in the past and so has the pound.
I am not sure how the graph demonstrates the polar opposite of what he said. The dollar was stronger in August than it is now - which is what both you and he said. Whether that means it was strong and now weak, or weak and weaker is open to debate.
Other issues as to why the dollar and other currencies fluctuate would make an interesting debate.
Er, and it was - read your graph again and you will see that the pound has risen by less that 10% against the dollar.
Hardly a big rise is it.
10% In 6 months, if you can get me that kind of return you're hired!
Yes. The point that fred made (and chose to raise again here) was that he'd told it "as it was" back in August and - crucially - had been proved right. He presented the graph as proof. The graph demonstrates the polar opposite.
No it doesn't.
If you read the thread, you'll see that he was claiming the dollar was strong because it's linked to oil, not gold - though he did make, I think, the point that the US dollar has been fiduciary for years - and that oil prices were high.
Oh the lengths you will go to not to have to admit you were wrong.
No need to read the whole thread just read this (http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=116830&postcount=113) post where I pointed out that oil prices were lower than in 1980 and attributed the strong dollar to America buying their own debt.
Fred, if you can back your arguments up with clear, consise and unbiased facts then maybe I would not take issue with you. You just don't do that - you link to sources that are clearly biased and take them as gospel.
I don't see any links in what I posted, you seem to be just parroting the clique lines now.
As to the Isreali investigation into the bombing of Lebanon I really hope that there are procecutions for that - to drop the amount of cluster bombs they did, when they did and where they did is truly unjustified.
And how about the people who gave them those cluster bombs and blocked a UN resolution calling for a ceasefire, would you like to see them prosecuted as well?
Israel does manufacture and export cluster bombs yet all the cluster bombs dropped on Lebanon were made in America and paid for with American military aid.
And how about the people who gave them those cluster bombs and blocked a UN resolution calling for a ceasefire, would you like to see them prosecuted as well?
Israel does manufacture and export cluster bombs yet all the cluster bombs dropped on Lebanon were made in America and paid for with American military aid.
I would certainly question why the US blocked the resolution calling for a ceasefire. I cannot see how that could be justified.
I do believe that US policy towards Isreal in the Middle East is certainly not helping the problems in the region.
10% In 6 months, if you can get me that kind of return you're hired!
Er, I think that was a Ratner - ok i resign!
j4bberw0ck
08-May-07, 22:53
I pointed out that oil prices were lower than in 1980 and attributed the strong dollar to America buying their own debt.
Lots of prices are lower now than in 1980; all electronic goods, for instance. If you correct oil prices for inflation, they were well over $100 / barrel at the time - but that's inflation - and in the case of electronics - technological advance, not the US buying its own debt. Heavens above.
As for being wrong, fred, one of us has track record of admitting it where appropriate. You don't. Not once, as far as I recall.
The old thread is an interesting thread with a lot of people making claims about where the value of the dollar comes from. I think most people here would agree there are MANY influences on currency and many reasons that currencies fluctuate. Whatever reason for a strong or weak dollar (any other currency)are open to debate.
Thank you. So fred's assertion about oil and the US buying its own debt is already done away with?
As I said above strong and weak are relative terms. The dollar was stronger in the past and so has the pound.
Gee whiz. The world economy is saved.
I am not sure how the graph demonstrates the polar opposite of what he said. The dollar was stronger in August than it is now - which is what both you and he said. Whether that means it was strong and now weak, or weak and weaker is open to debate.
Can someone please tell me what's going on here? Have we got something new, or no?
Other issues as to why the dollar and other currencies fluctuate would make an interesting debate.
Yes, undoubtedly. It is an interesting topic. But the debate here is fred's explanation of why every economist in the world sees a weak dollar, while fred sees a strong one and claims to have been right these past 12 months! And now you must excuse me. Enough's enough for one evening. If you have any other economic revelations, I'll catch up with them in the morning.
Thank you. So fred's assertion about oil and the US buying its own debt is already done away with? Gee whiz. The world economy is saved.
Not at all but if you read through the thread, as I said, a lot of people were throwing ideas about including yourself.
Can someone please tell me what's going on here? Have we got something new, or no?
????!?!? I asked a question to your statement about the graph demonstrating a "polar opposite"?
Originally Posted by Tristan
"I am not sure how the graph demonstrates the polar opposite of what he said. The dollar was stronger in August than it is now - which is what both you and he said. Whether that means it was strong and now weak, or weak and weaker is open to debate."
I don't understand your answer unless you are just trying to be difficult?
Yes, undoubtedly. It is an interesting topic. But the debate here is fred's explanation of why every economist in the world sees a weak dollar, while fred sees a strong one and claims to have been right these past 12 months! And now you must excuse me. Enough's enough for one evening. If you have any other economic revelations, I'll catch up with them in the morning.
I claim no revelations only questions (see above)
Unless I miss Fred's original claim in this thread he too sees the current (read May 2007) dollar as being weak. I understood that to be the whole premise of his statement.
I do not understand your attitude. You and fred both agreed that the dollar has dropped over the past 6 months, I ask a question about it, and I get all sorts...very odd...perhaps the paint fumes are getting to you http://forum.caithness.org/images/smilies/lol.gif
[lol] (very tongue in cheek as per your earlier post.)
Lots of prices are lower now than in 1980; all electronic goods, for instance. If you correct oil prices for inflation, they were well over $100 / barrel at the time - but that's inflation - and in the case of electronics - technological advance, not the US buying its own debt. Heavens above.
Yes but it does make your statement
"If you read the thread, you'll see that he was claiming the dollar was strong because it's linked to oil, not gold - though he did make, I think, the point that the US dollar has been fiduciary for years - and that oil prices were high."
not true.
j4bberw0ck
09-May-07, 00:06
America tied the dollar to gold in 1949 at $35 an ounce, with inflation the price of gold rose and America continued to give an ounce for $35, by 1971 most of their gold reserves had gone and what was left wasn't exactly theirs, it was being held as security. That's when they ditched the gold standard, did a deal with the Saudi royal family and tied the dollar to oil instead.
Yes but it does make your statement.......not true.
OK, if you say so.
Not at all but if you read through the thread, as I said, a lot of people were throwing ideas about including yourself.
All I did was mention that in 1972 America stopped backing the dollar with gold and instead did a deal with OPEC that all their oil sales would be in dollars. Before that the dollar had value because it could always be exchanged for gold and after that it had value because it could always be exchanged for oil. If a country wanted to buy oil from OPEC they had to have dollars.
For some reason j4bberw0ck seemed intent on proving me wrong though it's in the history books.
The dollar wasn't weak last August and it isn't weak now. America has managed to stave off a crash so far because the dollar is the reserve currency and other countries are prepared to prop it up rather than see the value of their reserves plummet but they have no way of ending the steady decline till it reaches it's true value, which isn't much.
Lots of prices are lower now than in 1980
I would just like to say that in 1980 the exchange rate was 0.42p to the dollar when I cashed in a $100 bill that my father gave me as a gift. Why didn't I just hold on to it till the year after???:roll:
j4bberw0ck
09-May-07, 09:29
Well, since we've moved into a era where just plain wrong is the new rock-on-Tommy-dead-right :lol: , I thought I'd just Google for "US dollar weakness". The following are articles from 2003 to date from a variety of sources, all discussing the mighty strength of the US dollar; I certainly didn't have to be selective.
US Dollar weakness likely to crash global stocks (2006) (http://www.ameinfo.com/85966.html)
US Currency weakness has far reaching ramifications (2005) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46055-2005Jan3.html)
Greater US Dollar weakness now forecast (2003) (http://www.ameinfo.com/24184.html)
US Dollar hits 15 year low (2006) (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/11/29/cndollar29.xml)
US currency's weakness benefits S&P 500 (2007) (http://communities.canada.com/nationalpost/blogs/tradingdesk/archive/2007/04/30/u-s-dollar-s-weakness-benefits-largest-s-p-500-companies.aspx)
Dollar weakness (2007) (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/d817a32e-d3ba-11db-8889-000b5df10621,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=htt p%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2Fd817a32e-d3ba-11db-8889-000b5df10621.html&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2Fsearch% 3Fhl%3Den)
Enjoy!
Well, since we've moved into a era where just plain wrong is the new rock-on-Tommy-dead-right :lol: , I thought I'd just Google for "US dollar weakness". The following are articles from 2003 to date from a variety of sources, all discussing the mighty strength of the US dollar; I certainly didn't have to be selective.
US Dollar weakness likely to crash global stocks (2006) (http://www.ameinfo.com/85966.html)
That seems to agree with what I said, only I said it last August.
You keep pretending I said the dollar was strong when what I actually said was:
I'm seeing a strong dollar, considering they have to borrow over $2billion a day just to finance their trade deficit, China, Saudi and Korea have been selling off dollars and more oil producers are accepting payment in euros.
That is that the dollar was a lot stronger than it had any right to be, still is, as your article confirms.
j4bberw0ck
10-May-07, 00:41
There is nothing I can add to your continued denial and desperate need to be right.
Goodnight, fred. I hope you sleep well and wake refreshed. And reach for your pills before anything else. :lol:
Love
J xx
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