View Full Version : What is Gordon Brown on???
changilass
30-Apr-07, 18:14
Gordon Brown has stated that he could not work with Alex Salmond if he was to become first minister, as he says he could not work with someone who wants to break up the Union.
Brown has not become prime minister yet.
Was he to say this about the leader of any other country he would be hung drawn and quartered, surely this is racism within the government[disgust]
Gordon Brown has stated that he could not work with Alex Salmond if he was to become first minister, as he says he could not work with someone who wants to break up the Union.
Brown has not become prime minister yet.
Was he to say this about the leader of any other country he would be hung drawn and quartered, surely this is racism within the government[disgust]
Why is it racism?? The fact that Gordon "thinks" he cannot work with him - is Gordon's problem, as it looks like he will have to. I don't see it as racist in anyway - I'm sure Gordon Brown has worked with other numpties and half-wits, so one more will not make a difference.........my only fear is that Salmond will become even more smug when he wins, making him totally unbearable.
j4bberw0ck
30-Apr-07, 18:45
Brown can screw Salmond at every turn. Move jobs, reduce subsidies, simply refuse to cooperate citing the good of the greater number south of the border. My guess is he will. It's not racism. It's politics. Salmond's plans rely on continuing to get council tax subsidy and other payments from Westminster - as was said the other day - no Council Tax? No council tax subsidy! Price of getting North Sea oil revenues appropriate to Scotland? Loss of the Barnet formula payments, which are somewhat greater. And the oil won't last whereas the subsidies will.
percy toboggan
30-Apr-07, 18:57
Gordon Brown has stated that he could not work with Alex Salmond if he was to become first minister, as he says he could not work with someone who wants to break up the Union.
Brown has not become prime minister yet.
Was he to say this about the leader of any other country he would be hung drawn and quartered, surely this is racism within the government[disgust]
By mentioning 'racism' in this context you have revealed yourself to be rather silly.
Think about it.
Scottish and English people are historically the same race - white northern European. In any event Brown and Salmond are both Scottish !
I'd guess you have heard this word 'racism' bandied about rather a lot and have become one of the brainwashed. Might I suggest it didn't involve much soap.
Gordon Brown has stated that he could not work with Alex Salmond if he was to become first minister, as he says he could not work with someone who wants to break up the Union.
Brown has not become prime minister yet.
Was he to say this about the leader of any other country he would be hung drawn and quartered, surely this is racism within the government[disgust]
Whats wrong with Gordon saying that? I certainly hope that the Tartan Tory Eckie boy does not get a job in Holyrood, a man with no track record, apart from sitting in Westminster, I would rather Gorgeous George Galloway got the First Ministers job before him
Gordon Brown has stated that he could not work with Alex Salmond if he was to become first minister, as he says he could not work with someone who wants to break up the Union.
Brown has not become prime minister yet.
Was he to say this about the leader of any other country he would be hung drawn and quartered, surely this is racism within the government[disgust]
There are many people on both sides of the border who consider Salmond a traitor. As much as any American would to someone who campaigns to break up the USA. Feelings do run this strong. Would the CIA allow the USA to break up into seperate nation states? Would Bush want to be President of an unUSA, would Brown want to be the first PM to be forced to resign because his nationality is foreign to what's left of the UK?
Do you think the British parliament will make things rosey for a fledgling independent Scottish nation? Like Jaberwock says, Brown can make things really difficult. In 1703, the Scottish parliament was making legislation to ensure Scottish independence and resisting English influence over Scottish affairs. Do we really think that Scotland will be independent of English influence after Independence? I'm afraid that Gordon Brown has a very difficult job on his hands. I think Salmond's is even harder.
When political campaigns are judged more on style than content like they are, I'm afraid that Scotland is going to be sleepwalking into poverty on a hollow promise.
Gordon Brown is not the Prime Minister yet. So who does he think he is will he refuse to work with Ireland and Wales. Wales could also be indepentent soon and he has to work with Northern and Southern Ireland wither he likes it or not. What is the difference working with an Indepentent Scotland. This is just a last minute grasping at straws to frighten the voters on Thursday. Golach Alan Salmond is a very clever man and knows what he is talking about.
DeHaviLand
30-Apr-07, 23:31
Gordon Brown is not the Prime Minister yet. So who does he think he is will he refuse to work with Ireland and Wales. Wales could also be indepentent soon and he has to work with Northern and Southern Ireland wither he likes it or not. What is the difference working with an Indepentent Scotland. This is just a last minute grasping at straws to frighten the voters on Thursday. Golach Alan Salmond is a very clever man and knows what he is talking about.
I agree but i'm worried about his brother Alex
peter macdonald
01-May-07, 00:18
There are many people on both sides of the border who consider Salmond a traitor.
What rubbish Rheghead if you take the USA as an example please look at George Washingtons example ,from his first commision right through to his eventual elevation to president Just go downtown in Cleveland /Chicago on a Saturday night and call him a traitor!!!!! Most folk as far as I can see are voting SNP as they are sick of the New Labour spin and see the SNP as the alternative vote and thats about it Iraq, cash for honours, pensions ,squandering of the gold reserves , a general loss of touch with what is happening in the country in all corners and a lame duck PM who is leaving leaving leaving but hasnt gone yet MacConnell is seen as not having the cajones to do anything other than what Blair tells him
As for Brown making things ackward do you think he will be prime minister for too long ??? I think not as if the opinion polls are correct in England he wont be there past the next election ..and if he loses support in Scotland he is to put it bluntly totally scuppered Good grief New labour couldnt hold Dunfermline in the last by election with it going to the Lib Dems Its his backyard!!!!! How often would labour have been elected with out the votes of Scotland ???? Aint often and that is why Labour went back on its founding principles of giving home rule to Scotland and Wales It has proved in almost all cases to be UNELECTABLE in England with the exception of 1945 and Blairs 1st term both of which were unusuall in their own ways
One other thing why did they call it New Labour ??? its no where near Labour was and should be The bulk of this lot are opportunists who have treated the Unions terribly got us into a war on the basis of a lie /serious misjudgement at the behest of a foreign power screwed people out of their pensions (Please go and read JWoks and Jaws postings about that matter)etc etc
Enough of this
PM
ps if you want chapter and verse about the "traitors" in the founding of the USA I can supply any amount of book recommendations for you to read (but Jwok will get hacked off and berate me again !!)
Sorry wrong spelling meant Alex Salmond finger slipped
j4bberw0ck
01-May-07, 08:25
(but Jwok will get hacked off and berate me again !!)
:lol::lol:
Peter, I'm just glad there are a few folks who take an interest! And you've pointed out errors / wrong conclusions I've made on several occasions, for which I'm grateful. Always good to have a "fencing partner".
Just go downtown in Cleveland /Chicago on a Saturday night and call him a traitor!!!!!
It depends on which Saturday night we are talking about. If we are talking about a Saturday night around 1776 then most denizens of those two cities would have joined in with the traiterous denunciations.
However if Schwarznegger wanted to secede California to the Union of the USA then the present day denizens would denounce him as a traitor.
Fact is the SNP want to throw away 300 years of Union and tradition on an anti-Iraq war ticket. The UK is the country in which we live. Just as much as the USA is to Americans.
Anyway, there really should be a thread called 'What is Alex Salmond on??' because of his contant referrals to the successful models of Iceland, Norway etc. Has anyone heard of the price of a pint of beer in those 2 countries? Last time I heard it was knocking on for £10 per pint, ouch!! Possibly he can only afford to be 'on' beer after Independence...;)
Can anyone tell me how the SNP is going to apply the 3% tax thing on the English who own second homes in Scotland?
peter macdonald
01-May-07, 10:35
Anyway, there really should be a thread called 'What is Alex Salmond on??' because of his contant referrals to the successful models of Iceland, Norway etc. Has anyone heard of the price of a pint of beer in those 2 countries? Last time I heard it was knocking on for £10 per pint, ouch!! Possibly he can only afford to be 'on' beer after Independence...;)
Can anyone tell me how the SNP is going to apply the 3% tax thing on the English who own second homes in Scotland?
Rheghead a better comparision would be to look at the standard of living in these countries ...the Economist usually is a good guide rather than the price of a pint anyway if you know where to go you can get a pint in Goteborg Sweden for £1 70p (Saluhallen) and an Old Pulteney for £2 (Appell Hotel) which is less than you have to pay in Thurso...
As for the second homes tax the Swedes manage it fine with the Germans Norwegians etc etc who own 2nd homes in West and South Sweden
PM
buggyracer
01-May-07, 10:43
these countries are also on about double the average wage than us, and like it or not the standard of living is very much better than ours.
:lol:
Always good to have a "fencing partner".
Maybe Mr Macdonald would be better at Drystane Dyking than fencing, if Wee Fat Eck gets in there will be plenty jobs of that sort around Hardians wall [lol]
these countries are also on about double the average wage than us, and like it or not the standard of living is very much better than ours.
Which makes their goods and services totally out of anyone's price bracket. As Scotland is supposedly still a manufacturing nation, does that bode well that Salmond is going to model Scotland on its Scandinavian partners? Yet he wants full membership of the EU. More double talk from the Grandee of the SNP me thinks.
Gordon Brown is not the Prime Minister yet. So who does he think he is will he refuse to work with Ireland and Wales.
To be fair to Gordon, the bookies have him as a pretty warm favourite!!
He is 66 to 1 ON with William Hill to be the next Labour Leader and his nearest competitor is 25 to 1 AGAINST
I think it is fair enough to say that you would have trouble working with someone who's aims are at the opposite pole to your own. Anyways, I lost faith in Salmond when he stated, on Have I Got News For You, that there were FIVE Teletubbies!!
buggyracer
01-May-07, 14:47
vote labour or lib dem then as caithness always does, because they have done such a good job so far!! Not.
Jamie stone = joke!
j4bberw0ck
01-May-07, 15:59
these countries are also on about double the average wage than us, and like it or not the standard of living is very much better than ours.
Sorry, buggyracer, you absolutely cannot compare the economies of Norway and Iceland with Scotland. It's not (just) about population. Wee Eck is an economist - he must know the comparison isn't valid which means (a) he knows it and is misleading the electorate, or (b) he doesn't know it and it's no wonder he's no longer a senior economist with Royal Bank.
And he insists of pointing to them as examples of supremely successful nations when neither is a member of the EU (but both are members of EFTA and so get the benefits of free trade without the regulatory overload that EU members get) and yet the SNP is for joining as a full member in its own right, adopting the euro and all the other garbage. Putting it politely, it's something of a contradiction.
peter macdonald
01-May-07, 16:03
Which makes their goods and services totally out of anyone's price bracket. As Scotland is supposedly still a manufacturing nation, does that bode well that Salmond is going to model Scotland on its Scandinavian partners? Yet he wants full membership of the EU. More double talk from the Grandee of the SNP me thinks.
Volvo Saab Ericsson Scandia Astra Meditec Orefors ABB in Sweden Nokia Arabia Wartsilla in Finland Tulip Carlsberg Bang and Olufsen in Denmark and that is off the top of my head There is also the Baugar set up in Iceland who are in to alsorts
Pity no one has heard of these and nobody wants to buy their stuff!!!
All best Rheggers
PM
ps Gollach why would I want to rebuild a Roman Wall ????? or want anyone else to do it
vote labour or lib dem then as caithness always does, because they have done such a good job so far!! Not.
Caithness has been Tory way back in the 1950s, I am just being pedantic rather than politic.:)
Volvo Saab Ericsson Scandia Astra Meditec Orefors ABB in Sweden Nokia Arabia Wartsilla in Finland Tulip Carlsberg Bang and Olufsen in Denmark and that is off the top of my head There is also the Baugar set up in Iceland who are in to alsorts
Pity no one has heard of these and nobody wants to buy their stuff!!!
All best Rheggers
PM
ps Gollach why would I want to rebuild a Roman Wall ????? or want anyone else to do it
See what I mean, they are products that are more expensive than comparable ones in the same market place. All big sellers I see....not
peter macdonald
01-May-07, 16:39
carlsberg ??? Tulip??
Nokia.......Ericsson!! COme on Rheggers you have to be kidding.
Cedric Farthsbottom III
01-May-07, 16:52
What is Gordon Brown on?Well for one personal policy,the man got it spot on in ma case.This guy after the major years of Tory rule,brought in a policy that meant ma family was better off in a month than we had ever been.So I'll never meet the guy but I'll say it on here.Gordon-Thank you.
j4bberw0ck
01-May-07, 18:19
Here's hoping whatever it was won't be cancelled out by the abolition of the 10p starting rate for income tax, effective next April! Or by the steady increase in the tax burden under Gordon Brown - meaning that the average taxpayer is now considerably worse off overall than he or she was a few years ago. It's all smoke and mirrors....
I can see Wee Eck using the Assemblies tax raising powers to make up for the hassle he will get from London.
What is Gordon Brown on?Well for one personal policy,the man got it spot on in ma case.This guy after the major years of Tory rule,brought in a policy that meant ma family was better off in a month than we had ever been.So I'll never meet the guy but I'll say it on here.Gordon-Thank you.
I have to agree, I have never been so well off these last few years, Well Done Gordon , keep it up and keep the Union!!!
stivagorm
01-May-07, 21:12
The sensible pills, thats what, we should not become part of Europe. And whoever said that, he was a racist needs their heads checked, it is people like that who have made this country a damn shambles that it is, that sme said my peice and I feel better that its off my chest
zenmaster
01-May-07, 22:35
Brown will be PM and then middle England will vote Tory to get rid of the Labour's Scottsh Raj. An independant Scotland will be able to vote in/out whoever they choose, and while you can't trust any of the pollies at least they will be more accountable.
Brown will be PM and then middle England will vote Tory to get rid of the Labour's Scottsh Raj. An independant Scotland will be able to vote in/out whoever they choose, and while you can't trust any of the pollies at least they will be more accountable.
An independent Scotland will pave way for a perennially Tory England. The northern English counties cannot hope to make a political balance against the Tory South. Since England is and always will be the dominant neighbour of Scotland, would it be wise to relegate Scotland's deciding political influence over England?[evil]
I will forever remain centrist, pacifist and Unionist.
Gordon Brown is successful in becoming the next Prime Minister he will not last long as the English people are not in favour of Labour anymore as the English Council elections will most probably prove on Friday morning. Tony Blair would be better staying on till the last. Personally I would like John Reid to succeed Tony Blair and not Mr Sure of himself Brown. Mr Brown has some cheek not wanting to work with a elected First Minister if that be Mr Alex Salmond. After all is Mr Brown not from Scotland and the Scots people elect him he forgets himself.
zenmaster
01-May-07, 23:00
....would it be wise to relegate Scotland's deciding political influence over England?[evil]
I will forever remain centrist, pacifist and Unionist.
If they were a positive Scottish influence then I'd be the same. But with the UK political elite having world stage ideals, the likes of Brown and Reid have little time for Scottish interests.
If they were a positive Scottish influence then I'd be the same. But with the UK political elite having world stage ideals, the likes of Brown and Reid have little time for Scottish interests.
The failure in your arguement is taking a few individuals and their actions and then taking a knee jerk reaction of immense proportions against Scotland's wider interests. The Union is bigger than the maligned actions of an arrogant labour leadership.
zenmaster
01-May-07, 23:13
The failure in your arguement is taking a few individuals and their actions and then taking a knee jerk reaction of immense proportions against Scotland's wider interests. The Union is bigger than the maligned actions of an arrogant labour leadership.
Not so. We had England voting Tory and ignoring Scotland. Now we have England voting New Labour and the despite having a strong Scottish representative at the highest level, they are self-serving. We can't hope to have fair representation with a dominant (although friendly) neighbour.
Now we have England voting New Labour and the despite having a strong Scottish representative at the highest level, they are self-serving. We can't hope to have fair representation with a dominant (although friendly) neighbour.
Not so. Without Scottish representation, British and English politics will sadly be evil Tory.
With Scottish politics being dominated by the central belt will the north have an effectual voice?
zenmaster
01-May-07, 23:38
Not so. Without Scottish representation, British and English politics will sadly be evil Tory.
With Scottish politics being dominated by the central belt will the north have an effectual voice?
A more effectual voice than in Westminster.
Boozeburglar
02-May-07, 14:29
By mentioning 'racism' in this context you have revealed yourself to be rather silly.
Think about it.
Scottish and English people are historically the same race - white northern European. In any event Brown and Salmond are both Scottish !
I'd guess you have heard this word 'racism' bandied about rather a lot and have become one of the brainwashed. Might I suggest it didn't involve much soap.
Race is a concept founded in cultural as well as other differences.
You may be correct that the Scottish and English on the whole share a common recent ancestry; it is equally accurate to describe them as different races, based on the common understanding of the term.
There is no reason to suggest a person of the same recent ancestry and cultural background cannot act in a racist way towards another.
Your insults regarding brainwashing and soap would seem to apply more to yourself.
You are the one who has decided to be condescending and sarcastic rather than just giving your opinion, rubbish that it is.
It would seem you have a rather limited understanding of the issues you spend so much time focussing on.
Refusal to learn, now there is real ignorance.
A more effectual voice than in Westminster.
Scotland will have 8.5% of the tax income of the UK to support a country that is 30% of the land area of the UK. The transport policy, health service, defence, you name it, will have to be improved over than that what is being done under the Union on that 8.5%. The Highland region has just a population of 60000 in a total population of 5 million. Just work it out purely on the math. We lack political strength while the central Belt gets it all.
To improve things tax rises in the offing which will result in a big brain drain from Scotland.
Race is a concept founded in cultural as well as other differences.
You may be correct that the Scottish and English on the whole share a common recent ancestry; it is equally accurate to describe them as different races, based on the common understanding of the term.
There is no reason to suggest a person of the same recent ancestry and cultural background cannot act in a racist way towards another.
Your insults regarding brainwashing and soap would seem to apply more to yourself.
You are the one who has decided to be condescending and sarcastic rather than just giving your opinion, rubbish that it is.
It would seem you have a rather limited understanding of the issues you spend so much time focussing on.
Refusal to learn, now there is real ignorance.
Sorry but that is pure nonsense.
zenmaster
02-May-07, 22:05
The Highland region has just a population of 60000 in a total population of 5 million. Just work it out purely on the math. We lack political strength while the central Belt gets it all.
Having been away from the county for a good while now, I'd be interested to in whether you would have confidence in the Highland council in Inverness to represent Cathness interests.
Boozeburglar
03-May-07, 13:00
Sorry but that is pure nonsense.
All nonsense, or do you care to elucidate so that I may answer that assertion?
The part I highlighted in Bold.
celtic 302
03-May-07, 13:04
Having been away from the county for a good while now, I'd be interested to in whether you would have confidence in the Highland council in Inverness to represent Cathness interests.
The Highland Council has Area Managers for different areas, so there will always be someone representing caithness in the Highland council.
Boozeburglar
03-May-07, 13:16
You can check out the world wide interweb thingmy fold to research the varying definitions and concepts surrounding the idea of 'race', probably more useful than disputing my interpretation.
Creation or Evolution, we all came from the same; the rest is a matter of chronology, nothing more.
So are you saying that a caucasian and a negro who are removed from their families and homes and transported to Mongolia, there race would be mongolian?
Boozeburglar
03-May-07, 13:26
So are you saying that a caucasian and a negro who are removed from their families and homes and transported to Mongolia, there race would be mongolian?
I don't believe that is what I am saying, I would have said something remotely similar to that if I had meant that.
"Race is a concept founded in cultural as well as other differences."
Boozeburglar
03-May-07, 13:29
Presumably you are able to tell someone's genetic heritage merely by looking at them, are you?
What is a Negro? What is a Caucasian?
So you see a person whose skin is dark, do you know their mother's is not light?
"Race is a concept founded in cultural as well as other differences."
What you really could be saying is that race is a concept based on your 'cherry picked' differences to suit the particular situation/political point?
I am simply saying that there are well defined categories of race - these are independent of culture.
Every government ends in failure. Labour's cycle at Westminster is in decline, and the voters who swept it to power are deserting to other parties in search of change. What makes it so fascinating is that the English are turning to the Tories and the Scots are turning to the Nats. Next election will be to Westminster. Just imagine if the Tories get in? Independence will become a lot more appealing to voters in Scotland than it is at the moment.
zenmaster
04-May-07, 22:38
The Tories will get in soon - England will reject Brown and the communist from Fife who runs the home office !
j4bberw0ck
05-May-07, 08:47
Just imagine if the Tories get in? Independence will become a lot more appealing to voters in Scotland than it is at the moment.
Can you explain that rather strange comment? As to why that should be, I mean?
zenmaster
05-May-07, 22:18
Can you explain that rather strange comment? As to why that should be, I mean?
It was interesting how Simon Heffer of the Telegraph was describing.... Tories have done well in England but only in their heartlands. They have lost a seat in Scotland and are becoming a hard-core English party and ought to embrace a benign English Nationalism and campaign for English home rule.
j4bberw0ck
05-May-07, 23:35
Thank you. I wondered why a Conservative government in England would make Scottish Independence more appealing. I'm still not sure why that might be the case. If independence is appealing, surely it doesn't matter which party controls England?
Re Tories in England.
A majority of Scots would not wish to live under a UK governed from England by Tories. For 18 years, Scots voted for Labour predominantly and got Tory rule. This was the driving force behind devolution. A return to Tory Government in the UK will drive more Scots into the camp they believe has the best chance of thwarting Tory policies in non-devolved areas of Scotland. Given that Labour will be on an extreme low and unlikely to be a party of a Government at Westminster for some time, the likely reaction is a swing to the SNP.
j4bberw0ck
08-May-07, 08:52
Re Tories in England.
A majority of Scots would not wish to live under a UK governed from England by Tories. For 18 years, Scots voted for Labour predominantly and got Tory rule. This was the driving force behind devolution. A return to Tory Government in the UK will drive more Scots into the camp they believe has the best chance of thwarting Tory policies in non-devolved areas of Scotland. Given that Labour will be on an extreme low and unlikely to be a party of a Government at Westminster for some time, the likely reaction is a swing to the SNP.
So from what you say, Conservative government is bad government - at least for Scotland. But no reasons given. Can you elaborate?
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