View Full Version : How about a poll (!) on In or OUT of the EU?
Maybe this is not for the 'General' Section? But there is obviously going to be a lot of interest generated on whether the UK leaves the EU or if we stay in - especially with regard to Scotland and a possible 'trigger point' IF the UK decides to leave. No this should NOT be about the SNP or any political party, but the Org membership's opinion.
Personally I would vote to leave, I am often away, off to Italy in a week or two and thus hopefully someone on here who can set up a poll to get the ball rolling???
A poll would be interesting. But I'm flabbergasted by the hypocrisy of a large proportion of those who were saying unity is better during the indyref campaign are now actually say that independence is better. Surely the principle that unity and 'better together' with something bigger and more resilient shouldn't change? :confused
wavy davy
08-Feb-16, 01:12
A poll would be interesting. But I'm flabbergasted by the hypocrisy of a large proportion of those who were saying unity is better during the indyref campaign are now actually say that independence is better. Surely the principle that unity and 'better together' with something bigger and more resilient shouldn't change? :confused
Words fail me.
A poll would be interesting. But I'm flabbergasted by the hypocrisy of a large proportion of those who were saying unity is better during the indyref campaign are now actually say that independence is better. Surely the principle that unity and 'better together' with something bigger and more resilient shouldn't change? :confused
What! So you are saying no matter what one is 'in' then it's better to stay together, no matter what the details are, just as long as the 'principle' is the same! good God man, I pity your reasoning - I quite agree with wavy davy, words fail me..
But no need to worry, if we all follow your diktat, i.e. still vote the same as in indy, then we're obviously out?
Out...we are better off out of the EU
What! So you are saying no matter what one is 'in' then it's better to stay together, no matter what the details are, just as long as the 'principle' is the same! good God man, I pity your reasoning - I quite agree with wavy davy, words fail me..
But no need to worry, if we all follow your diktat, i.e. still vote the same as in indy, then we're obviously out?
Well being part of something bigger is better. So the UK is better being a part of the EU. That should be the reasoning for the No camp of the indy referendum, or was it just a load of flannel?
I'm not sure why you say it is the same. With UK we was asked do we want Scotland to be split from the rest of the United Kingdom, we voted no get over it, EU really do we want to have rules made up from another country imposed on our fisherman or farmers etc. What I think is amazing the SNP and yes voters do not want Westminster to regulate Scotland but they happy for EU to be able to regulate fishing etc. ????
Well being part of something bigger is better. So the UK is better being a part of the EU. That should be the reasoning for the No camp of the indy referendum, or was it just a load of flannel?
With that logic the SNP and indy brigade should be campaigning to get out the EU.
What I think is amazing the SNP and yes voters do not want Westminster to regulate Scotland but they happy for EU to be able to regulate fishing etc. ????
Sorry but what fishing are you talking about? It's an all but dead industry here in Scotland.
Also, as per usual, the thread apparently IS turning into an anti-SNP/YES voter bash and i fail to see how you came up with the statement that yes voters are happy for the EU to regulate anything? have you actually gone round all of Scotland and personally asked them all?........next thread please.
Sgitheanach
08-Feb-16, 18:24
I voted yes but will still be voting out.
Sorry but what fishing are you talking about? It's an all but dead industry here in Scotland.
Also, as per usual, the thread apparently IS turning into an anti-SNP/YES voter bash and i fail to see how you came up with the statement that yes voters are happy for the EU to regulate anything? have you actually gone round all of Scotland and personally asked them all?........next thread please.
Yes you are right that is because of the EU regulations mucked that one up. As for bashing towards SNP yes voters I was refering to Rheghead bashing the no Voters. If you hear what the SNP say they would like to stay in EU so my point why when they do not want to stay in UK?
Sgitheanach
08-Feb-16, 18:45
I would rather live in a united UK(first time I have ever said that) free from europe than in a independent Scotland governed by Europe .
"No this should NOT be about the SNP or any political party, but the Org membership's opinion." (see #1 above).. Thank you andyw for setting up the poll
I voted to join The EEC, NOT a federal Europe, over the years I have been close to despair, joyed at the results of certain matters but at the end of the day I am unsure if the economic benefits outweigh the interference in the sovereignity of these islands is justified.
I voted to join The EEC, not a Federal Europe, I find it some what galling that Bruxelles can over rule the laws and acts of our Parliament. Head says for economic reasons stay in , heart says run .
"No this should NOT be about the SNP or any political party, but the Org membership's opinion." (see #1 above).. Thank you andyw for setting up the poll
I agree however It is important to note that parts of the country Scotland compare to rest of the country with the out come of the votes SNP will use this if we decide we leave EU then this could trigger another referendum. My own thoughts are we should leave with out all the red tape in place that brings the country down.
SkozkrHorgr
10-Feb-16, 09:23
I've only just started reading material on the subject and so far can't decide which way I'm heading. Lots of opinions (and in the end they are all guesses, like the indyref) both ways.
One of the most interesting ones I've seen is from Barclays Bank of all places, they think Britain leaving the EU could be the start of the collapse of the Union, and being the first one out we could be seen by banks and businesses as a stable choice to be based as the rest of Europe falls into financial chaos. Interesting view for a large corporation to publicly express.
Does anyone have any other views (either way) that could sway my opinion?
[QUOTE=SkozkrHorgr;1141360]I've only just started reading material on the subject and so far can't decide which way I'm heading. Lots of opinions (and in the end they are all guesses, like the indyref) both ways.
One of the most interesting ones I've seen is from Barclays Bank of all places, they think Britain leaving the EU could be the start of the collapse of the Union, and being the first one out we could be seen by banks and businesses as a stable choice to be based as the rest of Europe falls into financial chaos. Interesting view for a large corporation to publicly express.
Yes SkozkrHorgr interesting statements from them; "Barclays said the worst effect of Brexit would be felt by Europe, rather than the UK which could benefit".. still, 4 months to go.. bit of a non-starter this Cameron saying the French will kick the British border control out of Calais? OK let's say they do, that will be an open invitation to countless thousands upon thousands of migrants to immediately head for Calais in the expectation of getting onto ships for England? Nope, the ships won't move - not with the obvious £2,000 per clandestine for the lorry owner and £2,000 for the driver. Those companies would go bust - let alone the shipping company.
Instead there would not be a 'Jungle' in Calais, there would be a bloody great rain forest - in the meantime redirected lorries to the Hook, Rotterdam, Zeebrugge, Dunkerque, Boulogne, Dieppe, Le Harve, Caen, Cherbourg, St Malo, Roscoff... anyway that's my opinion
Just seen this on BBC News: "Jose Manuel Barroso ...He said the EU would be "weaker" if the UK voted to leave in a referendum.... He spoke out as the six founding members of the EU recommitted to building an "ever closer union". Nope, not for me!
I've only just started reading material on the subject and so far can't decide which way I'm heading. Lots of opinions (and in the end they are all guesses, like the indyref) both ways.
One of the most interesting ones I've seen is from Barclays Bank of all places, they think Britain leaving the EU could be the start of the collapse of the Union, and being the first one out we could be seen by banks and businesses as a stable choice to be based as the rest of Europe falls into financial chaos. Interesting view for a large corporation to publicly express.
Does anyone have any other views (either way) that could sway my opinion?
It is strange to me why someone who is absolutely pro-UK would want to put the Union in further crisis by wanting out of the UK. It seems they want it all their own way and they are reckless of the consequences. Well at least they can blame everyone else other than themselves I suppose...
There is also the point that the SNP cannot publically state they wish to leave the EU as they see Scotland as a full EU member after independence, but if Brexit takes place then they will have political leverage for the cause for independence if and only if they can demonstrate that Scotland wished to stay in the EU.
So if you want a chance of another independence referendum after Brexit then you have to demonstrate to stay in the EU otherwise the SNP cannot prove that Scotland is pro-EU, and that means voting to stay in the EU. However, if the result is to stay in EU then the SNP has to honour the previous referendum result and the UK goes on.
In a nutshell, the problem I see with "Even Closer Union" (good in theory) is that before you can do that you have to tackle the huge wealth gaps between member states. Once you get every member state up to a reasonably equal standard of living then you can tear the borders down without the fear of a flood of economic migrants. In fact if the standard of living was similar accross the whole of the EU then for every economic migrant coming here from, say, Poland, there will be one from here going to Poland.
On a side note.. Considering the state of the Greek economy why isn't there a flood of Greek imigrants?
Is it down to a different mindset between Mediterranean & Eastern European countries?
On another contentious issue, that of benefits for migrants this is my take on it...
In order to recieve social security payments you should need to have citizenship of the country you wish to claim benefits in. If, for example you are a Polish (not picking on the Polish, honestly, just using them for illustrative purposes) citizen living in the UK & you need to claim benefits then you should be claiming those benefits from the Polish government, likewise, a UK citizen could go & live in Poland & claim benefits from the UK government there.
Barclays: "Scotland has said it would be inclined to hold another independence referendum if there is a Brexit." Will those 'in charge' of Scotland have a separate referendum to ASK the Scottish people what they want?.. not being pedantic but the Poll on IN/OUT above may be just a straw poll but it could be indicative of the general populations feelings? I can't see a First Minister demanding a referendum on independence unless she has full support, and even then, it's a 'Reserved Matter' and up to the UK as a whole (i.e. Westminster) to decide? Incidentally there has been (2013) a 50% increase in migration to UK from Spain, 44% from Greece and 43% from Portugal - I would imagine that more recent figures will show an a further increase on even those figures.. Yes it would be great to get all the EU states up to a common level, but that is never going to happen, it was interesting to read the Guardian's the only Brit claiming Benefit in Poland: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/19/-sp-search-for-only-briton-poland-claiming-benefits
rob murray
11-Feb-16, 10:44
I'm not sure why you say it is the same. With UK we was asked do we want Scotland to be split from the rest of the United Kingdom, we voted no get over it, EU really do we want to have rules made up from another country imposed on our fisherman or farmers etc. What I think is amazing the SNP and yes voters do not want Westminster to regulate Scotland but they happy for EU to be able to regulate fishing etc. ????
Never could understand the logic of wishing to leave UK and the desire to be bossed by faceless european bureacrats in a EU that has a neo con fiscal policy, ok, swapping a devolved fiscally enabled parliament ( once the fiscal forumla is agreed ) for complete independance but readily accept EU dictats and be ploiced by EU fiscal strightjacket so swap UK / westminster involved in some common issues, and afully fiscal enabled devolved parliament for 100% dictats from EU.......senseless....shooting oursleves in the foot.
Sounds familiar? Have we been through this sort of thing before? Is it time to don those tinfoil helmets?
"Banking giant HSBC could move around 1,000 jobs from London to Paris if Britain votes to leave the EU, according to its chief executive."
http://www.aol.co.uk/news/2016/02/15/hsbcs-stuart-gulliver-hints-at-jobs-moving-to-paris-in-event-of-brexit
I went to have a look at the in/out Poll and can't find it - so was I sleeping when I voted on it a week or so ago? or is this yet again a missing post that upset someone on the forum management team?
linnie612
22-Feb-16, 10:11
I went to have a look at the in/out Poll and can't find it - so was I sleeping when I voted on it a week or so ago? or is this yet again a missing post that upset someone on the forum management team?
Go go down to 'Politics', - it's there.
Thanks for the reply - so it has been moved to Politics, I think it should have been left alone under General - link to forum poll http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?250591-In-or-out-of-EU-Poll
It puzzles me that with all the discussion going on in the BBC there has been no mention there of what happens after the referendum in Scotland. They talk about keeping Britain together but since the SNP have this confused attitude that they want to be in the EU but not the UK, if the referendum goes against staying in the EU it gives the SNP their excuse for another independence referendum. This may result in Britain not staying together anyway. The fact that an independent Scotland may not be able to join the EU seems to be conveniently ignored by the SNP. The one thing that might influence me in June, and I am slightly on the fence at present, is the prospect of breaking up the UK which would be a complete disaster.
What we need is a reformed EU, more like the old Common Market, with no interference in each member's laws and less expensive bureaucracy.
What we need is a reformed EU, more like the old Common Market, with no interference in each member's laws and less expensive bureaucracy.
Totally agree, unfortunately it looks like common sense does not apply in other EU countries. I am too on the fence, after years of believing that the UK should remain in the EU.
rob murray
22-Feb-16, 15:07
It puzzles me that with all the discussion going on in the BBC there has been no mention there of what happens after the referendum in Scotland. They talk about keeping Britain together but since the SNP have this confused attitude that they want to be in the EU but not the UK, if the referendum goes against staying in the EU it gives the SNP their excuse for another independence referendum. This may result in Britain not staying together anyway. The fact that an independent Scotland may not be able to join the EU seems to be conveniently ignored by the SNP. The one thing that might influence me in June, and I am slightly on the fence at present, is the prospect of breaking up the UK which would be a complete disaster.
What we need is a reformed EU, more like the old Common Market, with no interference in each member's laws and less expensive bureaucracy.
IS it really an issue, Scotland is part of UK, if UK votes out then Scotland is out. No one is wasting time fretting over a situation ( hypothetical ) that if the UK votes out and Scotland votes to stay ( a higher % of the vote as no one can predict exactly what the % will be ) ) , then Sturgeon may call indy2 , its a very minor issue. WHose to say anyway that Scots will vote to stay, and you cant speculate that people who vote to stay in EU, would automically become yes voters for Scottish independance. I agree the SNP are yet again confused by wanting to be in the EU but not the UK : also yes reality has been conveniently forgotten, plenty of EU states wouldnt want Scotland in as that would open the doors to other countries having nationalist seperationist parties shouting for independance etc. From a selfish viewpoint the EU wants the UK, they wouldnt want Scotland and a couple of small seperationist states ( Catalan for example ) In any case it takes yonks to gain entry it doesnt happen overnight and one thiings for sure, the currency will be euro's, and central bank will be the european bank with all financial shots called by the real big guns...Germany being top of the list.
It puzzles me that with all the discussion going on in the BBC there has been no mention there of what happens after the referendum in Scotland. They talk about keeping Britain together but since the SNP have this confused attitude that they want to be in the EU but not the UK, if the referendum goes against staying in the EU it gives the SNP their excuse for another independence referendum. This may result in Britain not staying together anyway. The fact that an independent Scotland may not be able to join the EU seems to be conveniently ignored by the SNP. The one thing that might influence me in June, and I am slightly on the fence at present, is the prospect of breaking up the UK which would be a complete disaster.
What we need is a reformed EU, more like the old Common Market, with no interference in each member's laws and less expensive bureaucracy.
I don't think the SNP have a confused attitude ove the EU. They want Scotland to be a sovereign state and to a member of the EU. Pure and simple. Much the same as people want the UK to be the same.
I don't think the SNP have a confused attitude ove the EU. They want Scotland to be a sovereign state and to a member of the EU. Pure and simple. Much the same as people want the UK to be the same.
They are, SNP do not want to be regulated by Westminster team but they are very happy to be regulated by EU and over ruled by laws etc. That is confused.
They are, SNP do not want to be regulated by Westminster team but they are very happy to be regulated by EU and over ruled by laws etc. That is confused.
Exactly. Sturgeon keeps saying this and it makes no sense to me since EU laws are just as strict and interfering as the UK's, if not more so. Also as Rob says, an independent Scotland is unlikely to be admitted to the EU anyway. Scotland on its own will be very isolated in the modern world.
Bystander1
23-Feb-16, 11:44
Of course Scotland will be a sovereign state and a member of the EU. Sleverin Eck fae Strichen told me this himself and he is one of the most reliable people on this earth. Never known to tell a lee.
Westminster just want to bully and abuse everyone that ain't English. As a certain 'better together ' group said " it's not how you win just win ,be it lies ,deception or fear .if the public are dumb enough to vote for they only have theirselves to blame .
(taken from a phone conversation with a MR Macdonald of better together.)
They are, SNP do not want to be regulated by Westminster team but they are very happy to be regulated by EU and over ruled by laws etc. That is confused.
The difference being is that Scotland doesn't have a voice in the UK or in the EU, if it was independent then it would have a voice at the big table.
Right now down in Venice, wonderful place. Today went around the Mestre area to some of the markets there, and, as usual, (found it in France) in regard to standards of hygiene, cheeses and meats lying uncovered exposed to the air, no gloves being used.. unfortunately, or maybe in this instance fortunately WE follow slavishly the EU rules every time, no one else seems to.. Never mind. Anyway what's this insane nonsense of ms Sturgeon saying it will be trigger for another referendum IF the UK votes out and not all the Scots vote that way.. is the woman a simpleton? She seems to be under the misinterpretation that if anyone wants to stay in the UK (and don't get their way) they will vote for independence ? silly silly women - seems to ring a bell that some previous leader of the SNP told her precisely the same!
I think a LOT of people will be very surprised that the UK government i.e. you and me and I do pay tax, send child allowance to 22,456 kids in Poland alone, obviously at the UK rate, which when you consider that in Poland if a person only earns 675Z (£120) they get 118Z (£21) a month - must be great to have us UK mugs being the cash cow! Of course as dozy said above "Westminster just want to bully and abuse everyone that ain't English.Of course" does not make a lot of sense, but then again it rarely does
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