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piratelassie
17-Dec-15, 12:13
Can anybody explain to me why it is ok to argue for self determination for Britain outside the EU yet argue against self determination for Scotland outside the UK. This is a complete contradiction in PRINCIPLE is it not?
If Scotland in the UK and the UK out of the EU is what people want, then yes they can argue for those two things.
Should everywhere be independent of everywhere else?
SkozkrHorgr
17-Dec-15, 14:54
If Scotland in the UK and the UK out of the EU is what people want, then yes they can argue for those two things.
Should everywhere be independent of everywhere else?
I agree, where does independence end, the highlands become independent of Scotland? the countys become independent of the highlands? Before anybody says it's idiotic to consider it to that level, somebody will want it. Because what they don't have is always better than what they do have, isn't it?
You can argue for whatever you want, doesn't mean you'll get it though...
eg. If you want to argue that Scotland should become the 53rd State of the USA then go for it.
rob murray
17-Dec-15, 15:43
Can anybody explain to me why it is ok to argue for self determination for Britain outside the EU yet argue against self determination for Scotland outside the UK. This is a complete contradiction in PRINCIPLE is it not?
Who is arguing ?https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4dmNbKNoO5I4crODpx6fcf3975Lnnh 8tsyOzhZjpnJFHbrfEu
piratelassie
17-Dec-15, 17:33
Never thought i'd get an exolaination on the principal.
rob murray
17-Dec-15, 17:59
Never thought i'd get an exolaination on the principal.
What principle ? I dont follow your logic.
To 'argue' (and indeed vote) is called 'Democracy', the issues appertaining to each of these two circumstances are by their very nature complex and fundamentally different.
piratelassie
17-Dec-15, 18:52
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
What principle ? I dont follow your logic.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
You appear to be telling people what they should think.
It seems likely that many people who are against Scottish independence, would like to advance the interests of the United Kingdom.
rob murray
17-Dec-15, 20:41
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
WHat ? If you mean another referendum write to Ms Sturgeon as she's the one stopping it.
piratelassie
17-Dec-15, 21:46
Those arguing to come out of the EU are doing so because they want self determination for Britain. Therefore anyone who is of that persuasion and at the same time opposed self determination for Scotland during the Indy. Ref. are being hypocritical.
WHat ? If you mean another referendum write to Ms Sturgeon as she's the one stopping it.
Those arguing to come out of the EU are doing so because they want self determination for Britain. Therefore anyone who is of that persuasion and at the same time opposed self determination for Scotland during the Indy. Ref. are being hypocritical.
Are you talking about people in England and Wales?
It hardly matters when we, the Scottish people, do not want independence, does it?
Can anybody explain to me why it is ok to argue for self determination for Britain outside the EU yet argue against self determination for Scotland outside the UK. This is a complete contradiction in PRINCIPLE is it not?
Don't worry piratelassie, IF the EU referendum votes to stay IN, we can always have another referendum, is that not the SNP way?
piratelassie
18-Dec-15, 03:07
Pepole in England and Wales did'nt vote in the Indy ref. I thought you would know that. That dos'nt alter the fact that those I refer to are hypocrits.
Are you talking about people in England and Wales?
It hardly matters when we, the Scottish people, do not want independence, does it?
Pepole in England and Wales did'nt vote in the Indy ref. I thought you would know that. That dos'nt alter the fact that those I refer to are hypocrits.
Then who and what are you talking about?
Try saying it a different way.
Then who and what are you talking about?
Try saying it a different way. I've been a MENSA member for 40 years and I don't understand her either :eek:
rob murray
18-Dec-15, 10:02
Those arguing to come out of the EU are doing so because they want self determination for Britain. Therefore anyone who is of that persuasion and at the same time opposed self determination for Scotland during the Indy. Ref. are being hypocritical.
I get you now I think what your saying is if your a scot and want out of EU but still want to be British you say that theyre hypocrites, ok but what if your a scot who doesnt want to come out of the EU and stay British ie wants the status quo are they hyopcorites ? anyway whats yer point, what do you hope to achieve by making this point ? Lets say Ive changed my mind and now want to vote yes for indy, whens the referendum being held, can you update me please. Ms Sturgeon is on record as saying ahe will hold a referendum when they ( pro indy ) are sure of winning so whens that then ?
Pepole in England and Wales did'nt vote in the Indy ref. I thought you would know that. That dos'nt alter the fact that those I refer to are hypocrits.
The people of Scotland were deprived of independence by ourselves, the people of Scotland when we voted against it.
We weren't deprived of self-determination. The referendum was self-determination and we determined that we should stay in the UK.
piratelassie
18-Dec-15, 16:05
We are the only country in history who have rejected self determination when it was handed to us on a plate, does that just not make you proud. I know it sounds like sour grapes but never the less what a proud nation we are . Incidently Canada is a single nation, Scotland is a single country.
rob murray
18-Dec-15, 16:29
We are the only country in history who have rejected self determination when it was handed to us on a plate, does that just not make you proud. I know it sounds like sour grapes but never the less what a proud nation we are . Incidently Canada is a single nation, Scotland is a single country.
Facts are we were given a referendum, nothing was handed on a plate, we were given the opportunity of seperation from UK and in a democratic vote rejected the opportunity 55% no to 45% yes, get over it, can you not concern yourself when or even if the SNP are going to call for referendum 2 or in your heart of hearts maybe you accept that the moments gone and the SNP aint gonna call indy ref 2 ? Whats Canada got to do with anything ?
cptdodger
18-Dec-15, 16:52
does that just not make you proud.
Of course it does, the people of Scotland spoke, the majority said no.
We are the only country in history who have rejected self determination
No we're not.
You were listening to "Yes vote" rhetoric, when you should have been studying history.
Bystander1
18-Dec-15, 19:54
Anyway I am fast losing e' place here. What is E' u when it's at home ?. I have heard o the' Groat, e' Courier, e' Bay etc but not this one.
There are so many clever people on here what wi their mensas, asdas, interlectals I just don't know anymore.
rob murray
18-Dec-15, 20:32
Anyway I am fast losing e' place here. What is E' u when it's at home ?. I have heard o the' Groat, e' Courier, e' Bay etc but not this one.
There are so many clever people on here what wi their mensas, asdas, interlectals I just don't know anymore.
EU = European Union..clear ?
Anyway I am fast losing e' place here. What is E' u when it's at home ?. I have heard o the' Groat, e' Courier, e' Bay etc but not this one.
There are so many clever people on here what wi their mensas, asdas, interlectals I just don't know anymore.
I can put a word in at our DENSA meeting, if you're interested.
E u is wot ges e lambs in spring
E u is wot ges e lambs in spring
The Yow-ropean community is against home wool.
Can anybody explain to me why it is ok to argue for self determination for Britain outside the EU yet argue against self determination for Scotland outside the UK. This is a complete contradiction in PRINCIPLE is it not?
That's the irony of your beloved Sturgeon's policies.
if she'd called for indy 2 she would have won...
How do you know?
rob murray
19-Dec-15, 21:20
.................................................. ................uh ?
.................................................. ................uh ?
Has someone whacked Rob?
How do you know?
Simple question, I thought...
piratelassie
20-Dec-15, 02:06
That's the irony of your beloved Sturgeon's policies.
---------------------
piratelassie
20-Dec-15, 02:09
Maybe WE should be called the Scottish Patriotic Party [SPP]
Maybe WE should be called the Scottish Patriotic Party [SPP]
YOU can call yourselves anything you like.
Maybe WE should be called the Scottish Patriotic Party [SPP]
Maybe the 45%'ers would be better
Maybe the 45%'ers would be better
Yep, Like it!
rob murray
20-Dec-15, 14:33
Has someone whacked Rob?
Yep I got sanctioned, post deleted.............
rob murray
20-Dec-15, 15:08
Maybe WE should be called the Scottish Patriotic Party [SPP]
Yes a good idea, hard core yessers who sturgeon conned over indy 2, should split off as the SPP, and be 100% for indy under any circumstances, that would be an honest thing to do and split the SNP as is, which has no intention of progressing indy2 ( unless according to STurgeon, they are sure of winning....but when will she be sure and under what circumstances ? )
piratelassie
20-Dec-15, 17:19
SNP split Rob? you wish. I bet all other parties wish they were as "split" as the SNP. It's only a matter of time, Indy. 2 is comming.
Yes a good idea, hard core yessers who sturgeon conned over indy 2, should split off as the SPP, and be 100% for indy under any circumstances, that would be an honest thing to do and split the SNP as is, which has no intention of progressing indy2 ( unless according to STurgeon, they are sure of winning....but when will she be sure and under what circumstances ? )
cptdodger
20-Dec-15, 17:29
It's only a matter of time, Indy. 2 is comming.
Prove it, Give us the date of the next referendum, no excuses, just the date will do.
SNP split Rob? you wish. I bet all other parties wish they were as "split" as the SNP. It's only a matter of time, Indy. 2 is comming.
so is Santa, if you believe tall tales 😱
rob murray
20-Dec-15, 20:01
Prove it, Give us the date of the next referendum, no excuses, just the date will do.
Ive seen 01 04 2020 stated
rob murray
20-Dec-15, 20:03
SNP split Rob? you wish. I bet all other parties wish they were as "split" as the SNP. It's only a matter of time, Indy. 2 is comming.
So is the 300th anniversary of waterloo
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