View Full Version : Sailors Selling Stories
What do you feel about the MoD allowing the group of sailors recently returned from Iran being allowed to sell their stories to the media?
I raised this point on a different thread but think perhaps it warrants a separate one.
I'm not unsympathetic to the sailors, but feel that public sympathy for them may evaporate if they do this.
Are the MoD just using them for propaganda purposes? Were the circumstances "exceptional"? Obviously a dreadful experience, but British soldiers, including medics, are enduring very dangerous and stressful situations in Iraq (and in Afghanistan) every day.
My thoughts are with the families of the soldiers who have been killed in Iraq, especially those who died in the last week.
j4bberw0ck
08-Apr-07, 13:17
Couldn't agree with you more, Angela. This whole thing has become a circus.
I cautiously disagree. I think it is fine that they can sell their story to the newspapers, so long as the content doesn't jeopardise future operational security. If the soldiers just told their story then that would be fine in most people's view so what is the difference, there is plenty of celebrity stories that get a wodge, why does the originator of the thread feel that we should be ashamed of the soldiers? Money makes the world go around. It is so easy for us to sit back in our comfy armchairs and judge the world on the TV but being out there is another matter. Those sailors are lived an experience and people want to hear about it. They aren't celebrities, they are normal men and women from meagre beginnings with wives, husbands and kids like most of us, so why can't they 'profit' from their bad experience? Fortune doesn't come one's way very often. And there is a lot of us that wouldn't even go to Iraq's frontline for even double what they would get from the newspapers, let alone fight, so how yellow belly is this issue?
A Org double standard in its purest form.
I didn't say we should be ashamed of the sailors, rheghead. Perhaps you've read that somewhere else and assumed that that was what I was saying.
I freely admit I would never have had the courage in the first place to go to the frontline anywhere, at any time, money would not have been an issue.
I was very glad and relieved when the sailors came home, but I feel the MoD are now using them.
I'm not quite sure where double standards come in to what I posted?
I didn't say we should be ashamed of the sailors, rheghead. Perhaps you've read that somewhere else and assumed that that was what I was saying.
Telling their stories is one thing, selling them, and therefore profiting from the experience, seems a different matter, especially when British soldiers are dying in Iraq...
Gosh, I must have misinterpreted you, right enough.:roll:
Gosh, I must have misinterpreted you, right enough.:roll:
Fair enough! Perhaps (in fact almost certainly) I didn't express myself as clearly as I could have...my intention was not to suggest that the sailors should feel ashamed.
My feeling is that it seems ever so slightly like "compensation" for the experience, and that the MoD, by making an exception, are allowing the sailors to be financially compensated for it, knowing full well that the media aren't likely to turn the story down.
At the same time it's pretty useful propaganda for the British government- unless it backfires.
I'm still searching for my double standards though....:roll:
May be the Government sees a propaganda angle to all this, after all, it seems like the western world is determined to do something with Iran, fair or foul.
I freely admit I would never have had the courage in the first place to go to the frontline anywhere, at any time, money would not have been an issue.
I was very glad and relieved when the sailors came home, but I feel the MoD are now using them.
With you 100% Angela, but hey if they make a few quid, they will be able to buy themselves out of the Navy.
Andy McNab ex SAS has made a few bob publishing his Desert Storm experience's.
Feel that whilst other service people are still out there publication of the views of the released service personnels treatment received whilst in Iranian hands could perhaps be prejudicial to any other service personnels treatment if detained by Iran regime in the future.
Hopefully no other personnel will be captured.
The whole war in Iraq was based on a lie, why change?
Propaganda through and through!!!
By allowing the sailors to be used as part of the propaganda machine we have lowered ourselves to the level of the Iranians.
But even worse, there will in the future be more hostages, either service people or individuals going about their business, and they will certainly have a harder time and it will be more difficult to get their release.
Leaving aside whether or not those people should be paid for their stories, the government has chosen short term propaganda at the expense of long term safety.
President Ahmadinejad of Iran seems to be playing a very dangerous game.
Parading these soldiers on Arabic television out of uniform after goodness knows what had been done to them mentally or physically, tauntingly criticising British foreign policy for going to the UN rather than quietly negotiating in back rooms, then in a spurious afterthought on an arabic television broadcast, almost on a whim, casually demonstating his power to just 'give' the pathetic UK it's people back.
Ahmadinejad may care to believe that because of his generosity or whatever has been negotiated behind closed doors that he has a made a new ally in the West, he would be wise to realize that he has instead made a dangerous new enemy and confirmed the enmity of others by proxy. He's not a complete idiot and maybe he does not care, but it's another rung on the ladder.
Allowing these former prisoners to sell their stories is only going to add to rising anger in the Western World. If I were to advise these personnel about what they might choose to reveal, I would be inclined to remind them that 'fools rush in where angels fear to tread'.
This whole business reeks of the 'build up to war' whatever is claimed by whoever. I believe actions to speak louder than words, especially those coming from politicians.
If these people choose to make money from their experiences then I will think plenty but I'll hold my tongue and try to refrain from making a judgement - not easy to do under the circumstances. If I am generous then I'll maybe grant that perhaps the money will make some recompense in some way for the experiences these released personnel have suffered.
This situation also seems likely to work wonders for the prospect of popular agreement to a replacement for Trident.
brokencross
09-Apr-07, 08:44
I totally agree with Cattach. Using the tabloid media as a propaganda tool, (which is all this is) will surely jeopardise the safety of any future prisoners, hostages etc. not just in Iran but many of the Middle East countries.
Their treatment will no doubt be more severe and the period of captivity may be greater (or even worse)
The MOD's reasoning, "excuses" for allowing them to sell the story have to be questioned, as do many other foreign policy decisions by our illustrious leaders.
Of course, if you were young, just been through a ordeal like that, and if offered a six figure sum would all say " no thanks, "
Pass up a chance to get out of the forces, pay for a nice house for your self or your family, and possible go onto other things, nah course not !!!!!
I have to wonder at the logic behind this decision but I dare say that the pros and cons of allowing them to sell their stories has been weighed up.
Is war around the corner? I doubt it - just a case of showing the Iranians up for the liars that they are, exposing the UK side about the circumstances of the incident and also the Iranian "good treatment" of the UK personnel...
They are certainly far more deserving of the cash than the nobodies that bed someone famous and sell their stories.
well as far as im concerned i dont really care, if they want to sell their stories it is up to them, after all the deserve something after what has happened to them.
changilass
09-Apr-07, 18:55
Seems they have now reversed the decision so they can't benefit from selling stories - wish they would make their minds up[disgust]
its just down right wrong. what ticked me of was the constant referal to them as being captured so was terrorists or insugents that captured them ..mmm nope it was the navy of a soverign power and the where abducted. money for their storys nahh.
What story is there to tell?
I don't think that anything at all happened to these "heroes" that warrants any interest whatever. They were pawns in an over-blown, whipped-up media frenzy and they should have the decency to keep their traps shut out of respect for those who HAVE placed themselves in true peril for the sake of their country.
As many an old soldier would tell you, the REAL Heroes are the ones who never made it home.
Perhaps the next Noel Edmonds show will feature these sailors and boxes containing various sums of money based on how much you think they have suffered. Anyone up for a game of "Ordeal or No Ordeal?"
I'm just relieved the MoD has finally seen sense and think it's a pity that two had already sold out. We don't have conscription these days so no-one forced these people into the services and presumably they were aware that at some point they might be in danger, even though they might reasonably have expected rather better protection than they were given.
Yes it must be very tempting to take all that money but maybe they should just have stopped and thought about all their comrades who have died or been badly wounded before they let the £ signs take over. However the main fault is with the MoD for permitting it and it's typical of this goverment that money rules all. If they had all told their stories, how much would have been the truth and how much embroidery by the press to make it all more exciting. Will we ever know what really went on? Somehow I doubt it. Suppose everyone serving in dangerous places decide to sell their stories - no more market. Why should these people make money out of doing nothing when so many have risked their lives over and over again but apparently are of no interest?
Valerie Campbell
10-Apr-07, 20:31
I don't think the forces should be paid money for their stories because it their chosen profession and if I'm not mistaken, don't they have to sign the Official Secrets Act etc? They serve their country by their own chosing and I think it's a bit of a slap in the face for families of the ones who don't come back.
The loot bag issue is a tad humiliating don't you think. And what about the poor lad who had his ipod nicked. I won't mention the Iranian suits they were given!
This was a very upsetting experience for them obviously.
One way of avoiding these embarrasments in the future would be to update the navigational skills of our navy so they dont get lost.
All in all this marks a departure from the hard-eyed, tough as nails, military types who built the Empire.
So much the better then. We are a soft lot these days - and speaking as a lifelong coward I am thankful for it!
I am reminded of the remarks made by one of Oscar Wilde's chums who had the misforune to be involved in some hand to hand combat on the Somme.
"The people were simply dreadful! And the noise!!!!!"
To which we can now add the tailoring.....
The loot bag issue is a tad humiliating don't you think. And what about the poor lad who had his ipod nicked. I won't mention the Iranian suits they were given!
This was a very upsetting experience for them obviously.
One way of avoiding these embarrasments in the future would be to update the navigational skills of our navy so they dont get lost.
All in all this marks a departure from the hard-eyed, tough as nails, military types who built the Empire.
So much the better then. We are a soft lot these days - and speaking as a lifelong coward I am thankful for it!
I am reminded of the remarks made by one of Oscar Wilde's chums who had the misforune to be involved in some hand to hand combat on the Somme.
"The people were simply dreadful! And the noise!!!!!"
To which we can now add the tailoring.....
Three news stories I've read from around the world today, the first was new film released by Iran of the horrors of the British servicemen's captivity they will be paid to tell about.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5f9_1176075119
The next was about David Hicks, who was recently released from Guantanamo Bay who is not even allowed speak to the press about his captivity let alone get paid for it.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21516985-601,00.html
When I started reading the next I was already wondering if the entire world had gone insane, by the time I'd finished I was in no doubt.
http://welcome-to-pottersville.blogspot.com/2007/04/bob-herbert-6-year-olds-under-arrest.html
What is the world coming to? What have we become?
Look on the bright side. It's not just we Brits who have become effete and humanitarian. What gives with Iran?
They didn't chop off any heads, they didn't show any blindfold pictures, they were - at least by Muslim fanatic standards - excellent hosts.
Could it be that the world is becoming a slightly kinder place?
I hope so!
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