View Full Version : Question For Scottish Referendum About Post
I would like to know and I do not believe has been answered yet. When we post or order items lets say from the south to Scotland would this cost us more? Also would we need air mail If you wanted to post letter gift etc to Southern Ireland you need air mail to post. If this is the case this would put huge cost on buying and selling for Scotland.
depends on whether Royal Fail will still operate between the two countries. It does so between NI & Eng/Sco/Wal and indeed you can send surface to Ireland and it doesn't take much longer so guess we need to wait and see.
You may notice that Royal mail gives all the appearance of a worldwide service.
There are three pricing zones Europe, World zone 1, world zone 2.
I can't help but expect that this is one time we would remain in Europe when we VOTE YES.
PantsMan Thank you for your views and thoughts however one question still remains when you send post to Southern Ireland you have to pay air mail I know this as I have had to do this.
PantsMan Thank you for your views and thoughts however one question still remains when you send post to Southern Ireland you have to pay air mail I know this as I have had to do this.
You can send it surface (international economy) but for small items, it's not worth the saving of a few pence against airmail. For larger items it is, as long as recipient is in no hurry to receive it.
tonkatojo
09-Aug-14, 20:20
I think what will be the currency would be a factor in any postage rates, Salmond says he is keeping the pound, ok, but does he mean a Scottish pound surely he doesn't mean the bank of England pound with all its benefits and shortcomings, would a Scottish bank of Scotland (not necessarily the current one) be a more patriotic way of having his "pound" even if it is a different exchange rate or not depending on the currency exchanges on any day.
I think people are missing the point what I am pointing out when you send to Northern Ireland you do not need to send air mail as it is still part of Unitedkingdom however South Ireland you do need to send air mail. What I am asking will this happen with Scotland & England.
Treud na Mara
10-Aug-14, 14:35
Have you tried Royal Mail for their answer?
No good point but would they know or Scottish Government know?
If it is correct what I am thinking then this will cost business and all who buy and sell cross Scotland and of course the same for England buying from Scotland
If it is correct what I am thinking then this will cost business and all who buy and sell cross Scotland and of course the same for England buying from Scotland
Yeah, with that and having to drive on the right-hand side, and the fee for crossing from Jockland to Engerland!
From the Post And Parcel website:-
Scots vote this September in a referendum on whether Scotland should leave the United Kingdom after more than three hundred years.
The “yes” campaign is being led by nationalists including those in the Scottish Government, and their plan is to renationalise the Scottish part of Royal Mail and maintain the same kind of postal service currently run in Scotland.
However, the UK Parliament’s business committee issued a report today looking at the implications of Scottish independence on business, stating that a separate Scotland would have to devote considerably expense to propping up the universal postal service.
The MPs said various witnesses in their inquiry called into question the sustainability of Scotland’s universal postal service given the highly rural nature of the country.
About 1m people live in rural Scotland, and 280,000 of these live in remote areas.
The Business, Innovation and Skills Committee said the Scottish Government had not laid out a plan showing how the extra costs would be financed.
The MPs stated in today’s report: “We do not believe that the Scottish Government has set out a coherent body of evidence to show how it would maintain and pay for the Universal Postal Service in an independent Scotland. The risk to Scotland is that provision of the Universal Postal Service will come at significant additional cost, either to the taxpayer or to the consumer.”
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It is looking highly unlikely that there will be a Yes vote come the big day. Polls and Bookmaker odds have shifted firmly towards a No outcome over the past couple of weeks.
From the Post And Parcel website:-
Scots vote this September in a referendum on whether Scotland should leave the United Kingdom after more than three hundred years.
The “yes” campaign is being led by nationalists including those in the Scottish Government, and their plan is to renationalise the Scottish part of Royal Mail and maintain the same kind of postal service currently run in Scotland.
However, the UK Parliament’s business committee issued a report today looking at the implications of Scottish independence on business, stating that a separate Scotland would have to devote considerably expense to propping up the universal postal service.
The MPs said various witnesses in their inquiry called into question the sustainability of Scotland’s universal postal service given the highly rural nature of the country.
About 1m people live in rural Scotland, and 280,000 of these live in remote areas.
The Business, Innovation and Skills Committee said the Scottish Government had not laid out a plan showing how the extra costs would be financed.
The MPs stated in today’s report: “We do not believe that the Scottish Government has set out a coherent body of evidence to show how it would maintain and pay for the Universal Postal Service in an independent Scotland. The risk to Scotland is that provision of the Universal Postal Service will come at significant additional cost, either to the taxpayer or to the consumer.”
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It is looking highly unlikely that there will be a Yes vote come the big day. Polls and Bookmaker odds have shifted firmly towards a No outcome over the past couple of weeks.
Just bare in mind, any report that comes from Westminster is produced 100% by those who oppose independence and so is biased.
I can't see why posting an item to Ireland will be any different after independence. It was outside of the UK before indy will be after indy. No one can tell in 2 years time what the price postage will be from the privately owned UK Royal Mail.
Heisenberg
11-Aug-14, 22:05
Just bare in mind, any report that comes from Westminster is produced 100% by those who oppose independence and so is biased. I can't see why posting an item to Ireland will be any different after independence. It was outside of the UK before indy will be after indy. No one can tell in 2 years time what the price postage will be from the privately owned UK Royal Mail.I don't think the OP (scout) was referring to posting to southern Ireland from Scotland after independance, rather posting from rScotland to rUK
Scorrie you have mentioned the bookies a few times now. I don't pretend to understand bookies odds - the most I have done is a wee flutter on the Grand National but there is an interesting article from William Hill that came out yesterday.
William Hill said "William Hill bookmakers says punters are waging on Scotland saying yes to independenceA total of 79 per cent of all bets in Scotland on the Independence referendum have been for a ‘yes’ vote, according to Britain’s biggest bookmaker.
The odds are 1/8 no and 9/2 yes.100 per cent of William Hill punters in Dundee and Motherwell have backed independence although Edinburgh has a 50/50 split.
In London, 75 per cent of all bets have been for a ‘no’ vote including a hefty £600,000 wager comprising of one £400,000 wager and one £200,000 wager at odds of 1/4 and 1/6, while Belfast and Cardiff are siding with their non-English counterparts.
A total of 83 per cent of all bets in the Welsh capital have been for independence while 75 per cent of all bets in the Northern Irish capital have been for the same outcome.
William Hill spokesman Joe Crilly said: “If the Scottish punters turn out to the voting booths as they have done to the betting shops, then we could well see a ‘yes’ vote when the referendum takes place in September."
They produced a table which showed that for example bets in Inverness were 75% for YES and 15%. I saw it on Facebook but have checked the William Hill website and it is on there. If there is such a clear majority of bets for YES. How come the odds aren't shorter.
The question about post is tackled here in the white paper
It says
On independence, responsibility for regulating postal services,
such as the Royal Mail will transfer from Ofcom to a Scottish
regulator. This will provide the opportunity to ensure a universal
postal service is in place which suits Scotland’s needs, in
particular the needs of our remote and rural communities.
The EU requires postal deliveries and collections to be made five
days per week in a member state. In an independent Scotland,
there will be a service to match, as a minimum, the level of
service provision inherited from the UK on independence, which
is currently a six days per week service for mail.
Regulating postal services will also allow an independent
Scottish government to take steps to address the high cost
of parcel delivery in remote and rural areas.
Gerry was right no one can predict the cost of postal services over the next two years or so.But With a nationalised postal service we have a better chance of controlling it than we do in a privatised Royal mail and money will return to the service not the pockets of shareholders.
Heisenberg
12-Aug-14, 08:38
Scorrie you have mentioned the bookies a few times now. I don't pretend to understand bookies odds - the most I have done is a wee flutter on the Grand National but there is an interesting article from William Hill that came out yesterday.William Hill said "William Hill bookmakers says punters are waging on Scotland saying yes to independenceA total of 79 per cent of all bets in Scotland on the Independence referendum have been for a ‘yes’ vote, according to Britain’s biggest bookmaker.The odds are 1/8 no and 9/2 yes.100 per cent of William Hill punters in Dundee and Motherwell have backed independence although Edinburgh has a 50/50 split.In London, 75 per cent of all bets have been for a ‘no’ vote including a hefty £600,000 wager comprising of one £400,000 wager and one £200,000 wager at odds of 1/4 and 1/6, while Belfast and Cardiff are siding with their non-English counterparts.A total of 83 per cent of all bets in the Welsh capital have been for independence while 75 per cent of all bets in the Northern Irish capital have been for the same outcome.William Hill spokesman Joe Crilly said: “If the Scottish punters turn out to the voting booths as they have done to the betting shops, then we could well see a ‘yes’ vote when the referendum takes place in September."They produced a table which showed that for example bets in Inverness were 75% for YES and 15%. I saw it on Facebook but have checked the William Hill website and it is on there. If there is such a clear majority of bets for YES. How come the odds aren't shorter.it shows that you don't know much about gambling odds. Nobody bets on a sure thing, they will always put their money on a rank outsider. So if 75% are betting on YES vote, then it is likely they are just taking a risk on the higher odds!
Heisenberg you are spot on. I know many people will vote with their hearts not heads. This is just one issue of so many and yet would have huge effect cross Scotland we all buy and sell cost with Royal mail is high now so having to send to another Country yes that is correct if we split it would be simple word another country then that adds cost What happens to passports? what happens to Drivers license?
it shows that you don't know much about gambling odds. Nobody bets on a sure thing, they will always put their money on a rank outsider. So if 75% are betting on YES vote, then it is likely they are just taking a risk on the higher odds!Thank you for explaining that so politely Heisenberg. I KNOW I don't know about bookies odds - I said that right at the start. If I understand you correctly you are saying that those betting on a YES vote are likely to be NO voters looking for a fast buck. Is that right?
What happens to passports? what happens to Drivers license?What is it about passports and driving licenses you are worried about Scout?
it shows that you don't know much about gambling odds. Nobody bets on a sure thing, they will always put their money on a rank outsider. So if 75% are betting on YES vote, then it is likely they are just taking a risk on the higher odds!
I heard an Englishman from London put £400,000 and another did £200,000 on a No vote. So what is that all about then?
Even Chance
12-Aug-14, 19:17
I heard an Englishman from London put £400,000 and another did £200,000 on a No vote. So what is that all about then?
Mmmmm, but that's totally different. It doesn't suit the agenda, so it obviously can't count towards any decent argument for or against surely?
Scout, surely you cant STILL be concerned about the issues of passports etc? That's been covered quite comprehensively in the White paper.
Both say Untited Kingdom will these have to be replaced and who would bare the cost.
Scout, You will keep your existing passport.
If you are a British citizen you will remain so. There is no possibility of having to give up your British Passport. On the day Scotland becomes Independent any British Citizen living in Scotland will be entitled by right, automatically to Scottish Citizenship. There will be no need to apply as it will not affect your British Citizenship. Britain allows it's citizens to hold dual citizenship from any country in the world.
If you are a citizen of any other EU country or a country outside the EU, you will need to apply for Scottish citizenship. I understand that this is because other countries, like Germany, for example, do not allow dual nationality.
This means the Scottish Government cannot just award citizenship automatically as people need to consider their options.
As a Scottish and British Citizen, When you come to renew your passport you simply renew the one that you need. There is no one going to MAKE you have a Scottish passport if you don't want one and no one is going to make you give up your British one.
Any clearer? :)
Yes and no :D I have read slightly different and it seems not as straight forward. I also thinking are you saying the same for driving license?
Heisenberg
13-Aug-14, 09:01
I heard an Englishman from London put £400,000 and another did £200,000 on a No vote. So what is that all about then?sometimes a sure thing is worth a 'punt' but you will only get a meaningful return if your stakes are high, as above.We should all vote YES so the crazy fools loose their money.
Yes and no :D I have read slightly different and it seems not as straight forward. I also thinking are you saying the same for driving license?Well Scout, if you have read different then let me know and I'll check it out. I can link you to the law on citizenship too when I get on my laptop. Lillie also check out the licence thing too :)
Ok Scout here is the information for Driving Licences
417
Motoring Services
It is the current Scottish
Government’s intention to continue to use the services of the
Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, Driving Standards Agency,
and Vehicle and Operator Services Agency in the immediate
post-independence period. These agencies are currently self funded
through user fees. Scottish users, therefore contribute
fully to the cost of providing these services.
Independence will allow the Scottish Parliament to determine the
best way to deliver these services in the future. The current
Scottish Government proposes the creation of a new, streamlined
Scottish Motor Services Agency, which will bring together the
functions of DVLA, DSA, VOSA, and Vehicle Certification
Agency. By the end of the first term of an independent
Parliament, the current Scottish Government would plan to have
completed the design and development work, with a view to the
Agency going live early in the second Parliament.
133. Will we need to reapply for driving licences if Scotland
becomes independent?
No. The Scottish Government intends that the driver licensing
regime will remain in place at the point of independence. This
will ensure all licences granted by the DVLA are recognised in
Scotland.
134. Will an independent Scotland change the UK legislation
for bus, coach and lorry drivers’ Certificate of Professional
Competence training?
This is a decision for future elected Governments of an
independent Scotland. This Government has no plans to
change the present regime for Certificate of Professional
Competence training.
The Scottish Government’s intention is that an independent
Scotland will retain the Traffic Commissioner’s role.
Its worth looking at what happens if you move to live in another country just now. If you live in any other EU country you can drive with your UK driving Licence.
If you come from any other EU country then you can drive in the UK on your driving licence with no restrictions
Info from the White paper, and https://www.gov.uk/driving-nongb-licence/y/a-visitor-to-great-britain/northern-ireland-european-union-or-european-economic-area
Are they going to make the driving test any easier though?
Nope lol :lol:
If they did & a Scottish driving license is valid in the rUK, it could be a money spinner with people travelling north of the border to sit their test.
Great thank you. That is just what I was thinking the way this would be. More cost these will need legal work agreements etc who pays for this public :(
We already pay for these services Scout. Scottish taxpayers pay for DVLA now, we also pay for our licences. We have passport office in Glasgow too, which we pay for now. Those staff can just as easily issue Scottish passports. You know Scout, Scotland doesn't start on Independence Day with nothing! We already have expertise, premises and systems which we are paying for.
I agree but difference is the start up to make changes legal agreements everything that we normally do will need agreement from Westminster and Scottish Government that will add huge amount to tax people. It does not take much to work out 5.295 million live in Scotland not all will be tax payers 56.5 million live in England again not all be tax payers however I am sure people can work out Lots of roads to maintain in Scotland Hospitals. Will road tax be higher in Scotland to pay for this? So many questions. I do not think Scotland can not go alone that is not the problem at what cost and would any one really feel better off in 10 or 15 years time.
Scorrie you have mentioned the bookies a few times now. I don't pretend to understand bookies odds - the most I have done is a wee flutter on the Grand National but there is an interesting article from William Hill that came out yesterday.
William Hill said "William Hill bookmakers says punters are waging on Scotland saying yes to independenceA total of 79 per cent of all bets in Scotland on the Independence referendum have been for a ‘yes’ vote, according to Britain’s biggest bookmaker.
The odds are 1/8 no and 9/2 yes.100 per cent of William Hill punters in Dundee and Motherwell have backed independence although Edinburgh has a 50/50 split.
In London, 75 per cent of all bets have been for a ‘no’ vote including a hefty £600,000 wager comprising of one £400,000 wager and one £200,000 wager at odds of 1/4 and 1/6, while Belfast and Cardiff are siding with their non-English counterparts.
A total of 83 per cent of all bets in the Welsh capital have been for independence while 75 per cent of all bets in the Northern Irish capital have been for the same outcome.
William Hill spokesman Joe Crilly said: “If the Scottish punters turn out to the voting booths as they have done to the betting shops, then we could well see a ‘yes’ vote when the referendum takes place in September."
They produced a table which showed that for example bets in Inverness were 75% for YES and 15%. I saw it on Facebook but have checked the William Hill website and it is on there. If there is such a clear majority of bets for YES. How come the odds aren't shorter.
Squidge, the number of bets placed on a particular outcome of any event is totally irrelevant in affecting the odds offered by bookmakers. The sole consideration is the liability, which is the sum of money the bookmaker could lose, and which is determined by the AMOUNT of money placed at the respective odds. As liabilities accumulate, the odds will change in order to make one side more attractive and one side less attractive to punters. The theory is that a balance of money on each outcome is achieved.
In theory a 100% book with equal liabilities would leave a bookmaker able to pay out the winners with the money lost by the losers. You don't win the bookies money, you are really winning the losing punter's money. Of course a bookie couldn't make a living out of that and so the odds are skewed to give them a profit margin, which used to be a theoretical 10%. That means that the odds offered by a bookie will, overall, be 10% shorter than they actually should be. This allows a bookie to pay out winning bets with losing punter's money and pocket the 10% left as their profit. Sometimes bookies will operate a good bit higher than the 10% margin with the odds they offer, with most average punters unable to tell whether the odds are value or not.
Books on any event will rarely, if ever, be exactly balanced and bookmakers will use other bookmakers to place bets with to offset any imbalance in their own liabilities, in a process known as "hedging". This means any big sum they have to pay out on a winner will actually come back to them via the bookie they hedged with. Effectively the punter has actually won the money from the second bookie, who, in turn may have passed some of that liability on to a third party. The whole industry balances the money coming in and the liabilities are spread around, meaning any individual bookie can control how much he might win or lose on a race.
The website Betfair allows punters to offer odds to other punters, effectively cutting out the middle man bookmaker. There are several betting exchanges now and on-course bookmakers now defer to these sites to get a feel for the market. It is changed days from bookies forming their own odds at the track and adjusting them as the money came for certain horses in the race. Now they will be sitting with a laptop, following the market moves online.
With the referendum betting, the odds on the No vote are so short that they make appeal only to the very heavy hitting punter who can bet in sums that you could buy a house with. These punters will be few and far between but they will be betting amounts that far outweigh those placed by people sticking money on a Yes vote at the bigger odds. If you place £10 on a No vote at 1/8 and win, you get back £11.25, meaning a profit of just £1.25 but if you put the same amount on Yes at 5/1, you get back £60, a profit of £50.
You can immediately see the appeal of the Yes bet for the smaller investor. The patriotic punter, the fun punter and the blissfully unaware punter are all much more likely to place a bet on the outcome offering the bigger reward. The number and/or percentage of the people voting on each outcome is of no matter to affecting the odds. Bookmakers will frame the odds based on opinion and likelihood, from that point onward the amount of money at those odds will cause any adjustment that may be needed to those opening odds.
Bookmakers are legendary in trying to drum up business and, with nearly all the money being for a No vote in recent weeks, it is of no surprise to hear a spokesperson trying to spin a picture of loads of money coming for the other side of the market. It is a leap of faith at best ,and deceiving at worst, to suggest that if people voted like punters that there will be a Yes vote come the referendum. You can be 100% assured that, if so many people were putting money on a Yes vote, the odds would have been seriously shortened by now. You can take Joe Crilly's statement with an enormous pinch of salt, it is pure business seeking trollop and you wonder how these people sleep at night, when they spin a yarn about something potentially occurring, yet have odds of 1/8 on the exact opposite happening. You might as well listen to Ted Crilly :)
I hope that helps explain the situation more clearly for the non-betting readers. As it stands the market firmly expects the result to be No. Quite what the papers are up to is a mystery to me with The Scotsman showing a 61% to 39% lead for the No campaign and then stating 24hrs later that support for No was at an all time LOW. Go figure, I reckon the old arse/elbow equation may be one The Scotsman is not overly familiar with.
Anyway we have the Salmond/Darling rematch to look forward to on the BBC. In true boxing tradition one of these guys is going to eat the other's offspring this time around. Seconds Out, round 2.
That's much clearer. Thanks Scorrie. :)
Scout, You will keep your existing passport.
If you are a British citizen you will remain so. There is no possibility of having to give up your British Passport. On the day Scotland becomes Independent any British Citizen living in Scotland will be entitled by right, automatically to Scottish Citizenship. There will be no need to apply as it will not affect your British Citizenship. Britain allows it's citizens to hold dual citizenship from any country in the world.
If you are a citizen of any other EU country or a country outside the EU, you will need to apply for Scottish citizenship. I understand that this is because other countries, like Germany, for example, do not allow dual nationality.
This means the Scottish Government cannot just award citizenship automatically as people need to consider their options.
As a Scottish and British Citizen, When you come to renew your passport you simply renew the one that you need. There is no one going to MAKE you have a Scottish passport if you don't want one and no one is going to make you give up your British one.
Any clearer? :)
So by rocking up in iScotland we'll all get a Scottish Passport for free then?
I agree but difference is the start up to make changes legal agreements everything that we normally do will need agreement from Westminster and Scottish Government that will add huge amount to tax people. It does not take much to work out 5.295 million live in Scotland not all will be tax payers 56.5 million live in England again not all be tax payers however I am sure people can work out Lots of roads to maintain in Scotland Hospitals. Will road tax be higher in Scotland to pay for this? So many questions. I do not think Scotland can not go alone that is not the problem at what cost and would any one really feel better off in 10 or 15 years time.
Well Scout, a country's income does not just come from income tax. In fact a much smaller percentage of income comes from income tax than you might realise. I'll try to find the figures for you.
Affordability is not in doubt to be honest. We already afford what we have. Let's remember that for the last 7 years Scottish Government has balanced the books. It has had to make cuts in some areas to allow us to pay for bedroom tax relief or free prescriptions for example.
There will be some start up costs but there will also be some start up savings too remember. So, what we save on, for example MPs in the commons and the Lords, will be saved immediately. We will have the a ability to choose how we spend our money. Do you believe that the UK subsidises Scotland Scout? If you do then maybe you are right to believe that the costs will make us poorer and there will be no savings at all.
If however, you believe that Scotland pays her way like everyone else including Cameron and Darling, then we are surely able to afford what we have now and the start up costs of things we need- especially as we are not starting with nothing.
So by rocking up in iScotland we'll all get a Scottish Passport for free then?You will get Scottish citizenship if you are entitled as I explained above. You will be able to apply for a passport if you want to.
Derrrrr sorry lol - I'm in bed with an upset tummy so I'm a bit distracted :(
Two passports- If you want Phil. No one is going to make you. My husband is champing at the bit for his, me? I'm not fussed.
Tactical avoidance, classy.
Tactical avoidance, classy.Oh dear - What does THAT mean?
I agree not all but then where Tax comes from it must come from some people that is how it is. Business also but they are people. Do not forget part of the money comes from the south I know that may be hard to take but it is true. No I do not believe we can fund alone that is not what I said. I was saying Scotland are not fools they can run things and would do ok but at what cost to Scotland and would we really feel better off I doubt that.
How do you define "better off"? I'm not being awkward here. I'm genuinely asking the question. Are you talking about money in your pocket or something else? Something bigger?
One of the issues that Scotland moans about that they feel hard done by Westminster and would be better off finacely in their pockets our electricity bills will come down fuel bills will come down. We will get more free service Hospitals we will still get it free I am not 100% sure on this It may not change over night but will in the future.
That's much clearer. Thanks Scorrie. :)
The Odds on a Yes vote continue to drift and are out to 11/2 now, more than triple the odds six months ago.
Meanwhile .... In the REAL world.....
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