"You don’t have a vote, but you do have a voice"

[transported]

Never having commented on the Org before i have followed this thread and others of similar interest to me closely. I have been quite appalled by the narky comments between both sides of this debate and the continuous question of what will be better if we go for independence or what will be better if we stay part of UK.
I am a Tory voter always have been always will be, I am self employed and employ roughly 63 other people. I have never voted SNP and never felt any compulsion to do so .
The vote we will all make is for Independence, not for the SNP. It is being organised by them for the Nation, nothing else about anything they have to say or comments they may make has any influence on me whatsoever.
Independence is about only one thing, having the right to act in the interest of your own nation, not having to be ruled over by another, regardless of how sympathetic that rule may be. It is about making choices for the good of your own nation and not the those of any other.
Does it really matter which currency we use, does it really matter which group we belong to, which top table we sit at, which defense organisation we are in. Are we truly likely to be invaded by a foreign power, are we suddenly going to stop making money and spending it. To all of these the answer is a resounding NO. Anyone who infers differently is simply using scare tactics.
The only question we need to ask ourselves on the day of the vote is simply, what does my heart tell me to vote. It may be NO it may be YES but nothing i have read in this thread and others of the same ilk would add a single reason to me to vote in either way.
I will likely vote YES, how much worse could independence be, but oh how much better could the future be if we make it so.

[Bobinovich]

Never having commented on the Org before i have followed this thread and others of similar interest to me closely. I have been quite appalled by the narky comments between both sides of this debate and the continuous question of what will be better if we go for independence or what will be better if we stay part of UK.
I am a Tory voter always have been always will be, I am self employed and employ roughly 63 other people. I have never voted SNP and never felt any compulsion to do so .
The vote we will all make is for Independence, not for the SNP. It is being organised by them for the Nation, nothing else about anything they have to say or comments they may make has any influence on me whatsoever.
Independence is about only one thing, having the right to act in the interest of your own nation, not having to be ruled over by another, regardless of how sympathetic that rule may be. It is about making choices for the good of your own nation and not the those of any other.
Does it really matter which currency we use, does it really matter which group we belong to, which top table we sit at, which defense organisation we are in. Are we truly likely to be invaded by a foreign power, are we suddenly going to stop making money and spending it. To all of these the answer is a resounding NO. Anyone who infers differently is simply using scare tactics.
The only question we need to ask ourselves on the day of the vote is simply, what does my heart tell me to vote. It may be NO it may be YES but nothing i have read in this thread and others of the same ilk would add a single reason to me to vote in either way.
I will likely vote YES, how much worse could independence be, but oh how much better could the future be if we make it so.

Spot on! and great first post btw :)

[squidge]

Spot on! and great first post btw :)You are right it is. There is evidence that those who are right of centre will be better served in an Independent Scotland as there is likely to be a change in the parties which will mean there might be a chance of having a right of centre electable party in Scotland.

[RagnarRocks]

Unless of course the vote goes the way the polls are showing with the NO vote gaining momentum and the YES vote stalled

[squidge]

Oh yes the 500 people that the Press and Journal interviwed. Forgive me if I dont give up just yet. Also Rags, if I answered your questions on this thread can I ask you some back?

[RagnarRocks]

You can ask away whether or not I answer is another matter completely but feel free to try

[squidge]

Thanks.

How will the Westminster Government address the skill shortages that face Scotland's Financial Sector over the next few years?

Given that I am concerned about Welfare reforms and particularly about the poor performance of the back to work programme, what does the No campaign say will be done to increase the number of people moving into work

.Given that my overriding aspiration is to have a better and fairer society, how can the NO campaign reassure me that something better and fairer is achievable within the UK.

[RagnarRocks]

First question , given the amount of university graduates claiming not to be able to find work I'm sure that the financial sector will soon find it has enough people to man those positions, having worked in the financial sector you'll find the remuneration usually makes it worth taking the job and re qualifying if necessary.

Second question . With good stewardship of the economy more jobs become available and unemployment falls as is happening already

Third question. That all depends on how you define fair but I would suggest that the in the UK anyone has the opportunity to make the most of this society hence so many people want to come here to live giving us the immigration problem it really isn't that bad compared to many countries but there always room for improvement and a strong economy means there is more money available for social welfare. Show me another country in the world that has a social healthcare system like the NHS

[squidge]

First question , given the amount of university graduates claiming not to be able to find work I'm sure that the financial sector will soon find it has enough people to man those positions, having worked in the financial sector you'll find the remuneration usually makes it worth taking the job and re qualifying if necessary.Second question . With good stewardship of the economy more jobs become available and unemployment falls as is happening alreadyThird question. That all depends on how you define fair but I would suggest that the in the UK anyone has the opportunity to make the most of this society hence so many people want to come here to live giving us the immigration problem it really isn't that bad compared to many countries but there always room for improvement and a strong economy means there is more money available for social welfare.Well i was hoping for a little more certainty and evidence.

So, if you are "sure" how are you sure?

There hasnt really been much good stewardship of the economy over the last 15 years or so. I dont doubt that many people will go into work. But the Work Programme targets hard to help people. What will staying in the Union do to ensure that the results for this programme improve and these people get to take advantage of the economic recovery?


If there is room for improvement how will staying as part of the union ensure that those improvements are made,

[Phill]

Given that my overriding aspiration is to have a better and fairer society,And are you happy that under an SNP the Health Care system is being destroyed in rural areas. It's all fine and dandy for those living in a town or city, SNP make it look rosey and bonnie.

I just hope that with a yes vote, there is a continued effort by the pro indy folk to really get democracy into Scotland. Firstly a referendum on the EU, which is not on offer now.
I hope that people fight to get the services they deserve right across Scotland.

I fear however that it will all stall once the Inglish have been ran out of town.

[RagnarRocks]

Well i was hoping for a little more certainty and evidence. So, if you are "sure" how are you sure? There hasnt really been much good stewardship of the economy over the last 15 years or so. I dont doubt that many people will go into work. But the Work Programme targets hard to help people. What will staying in the Union do to ensure that the results for this programme improve and these people get to take advantage of the economic recovery? If there is room for improvement how will staying as part of the union ensure that those improvements are made,Yes Squidge poor stewardship under Labour but the debate isn't about what's going t change if we stay part of the Union its about Independence.
I know you think its the states job to find everyone jobs and have highly paid advisors to remind you which side of the toilet paper to use. But that's just how you feel. Trying to reverse the argument is not a particularly clever trick.
The Economy is on the mend. Inflation is down, Unemployment is Down there's the proof and certainty its actually happening although you choose to ignore it. The fact we have a million unemployed youths shows we have sufficient people to fill vacancies, perhaps if someone told them that getting a job requires, time keeping, a few manners, dressing appropriately, and occasionally doing something because its a job, not because it isn't your ideal job working in media or whatever you've been taught is your perfect scenario, oh and occasionally you have to move.

[RagnarRocks]

It was interesting to watch the reporting Scotland debate last night it would appear the SNP spokeswoman was having a hard time explaining how anything would be paid for or what a plan b is or if they actually have on. Flummoxed is the word I'd use to describe her performance .

[Oddquine]

Well i was hoping for a little more certainty and evidence.

So, if you are "sure" how are you sure?

There hasnt really been much good stewardship of the economy over the last 15 years or so. I dont doubt that many people will go into work. But the Work Programme targets hard to help people. What will staying in the Union do to ensure that the results for this programme improve and these people get to take advantage of the economic recovery?


If there is room for improvement how will staying as part of the union ensure that those improvements are made,

And there are more basic questions which could be asked to clarify the prospects for Scotland within the Union from September 19th if there is a NO vote.....like........

With the Government and UKIP squaring up to the European Union, and a promised referendum, will the UK remain a member of the EU?

With Westminster politicians threatening to uproot the Barnett formula and cut Scottish funding by £4 billion, how secure are Scottish finances after a No vote?

Will the UK still be one of the most unequal countries in the developed world?


Can Scotland trust Westminster to deliver any further devolution, given that depends on the votes of the UK Parliament? In fact, can it be trusted not to roll back devolution altogether, as has been mooted by some?

And, finally...... regarding the prospect of a currency union.or even just using sterling unilaterally..... If it is “not independence”, as many No campaigners claim, then surely many unionists will feel able to vote for it.........and if not.........why not?

[RagnarRocks]

Surely the offer of a referendum on the EU is the most democratic way to decide whether we stay in the EU or not I don't see the SNP offering any such thing just closer ties with Europe which doesn't seem very Democratic

Nothing can be guaranteed in life why do you ask for guarantees from Westminster when the SNP have made no guarantees.

Its the job of the SNP to have laid out their plans correctly re currency it appears they have been incompetent on this issue and failed to get their facts right in the first place.

If you're so concerned about fairness and equality within the UK why do you wish to remove yourself from it and treat the rest of the UK as people you don't care about.

[squidge]

Nothing can be guaranteed in life why do you ask for guarantees from Westminster when the SNP have made no guarantees.


Facepalm!!!!!


Yes Squidge poor stewardship under Labour but the debate isn't about what's going t change if we stay part of the Union its about Independence. but see Rags - that is part of it for me. If we Stay in the union what will change - how will we influence change and how will we have some reassurance that the issues that are important to me and others like me.



I know you think its the states job to find everyone jobs and have highly paid advisors to remind you which side of the toilet paper to use.(Edit ...:roll:) But that's just how you feel. Trying to reverse the argument is not a particularly clever trick.
The Economy is on the mend. Inflation is down, Unemployment is Down there's the proof and certainty its actually happening although you choose to ignore it. The fact we have a million unemployed youths shows we have sufficient people to fill vacancies, perhaps if someone told them that getting a job requires, time keeping, a few manners, dressing appropriately, and occasionally doing something because its a job, not because it isn't your ideal job working in media or whatever you've been taught is your perfect scenario, oh and occasionally you have to move.

But see Ragnar - these are the issues that are important to me. Im not playing any tricks just asking for some answers and so far pretty much all you have said is "because I say so".

Thats Not good enough

[squidge]

And are you happy that under an SNP the Health Care system is being destroyed in rural areas. It's all fine and dandy for those living in a town or city, SNP make it look rosey and bonnie.

IS it being destroyed? Thats a real question Phil - you clearly feel really strongly about this so Im sure that you know better than me what is not working properly. As I understand it it there are real problems around a whole range of issues - transport, access to specialist services, maternity - there needs to be an understanding of what should be provided - even in rural areas across the whole range of NHS services - not just hospitals. The Scottish government has worked succesfully with the voluntary sector in some areas to make sure that these essential services are delivered as locally as possible or with the help of new technology. But ssues around out of hours care, district nurse care, psychiatric care abound and there are no easy answers. Securing staff is a real problem and yet we have newly qualified nurses struggling to get work. Seems to me there is a lot to fix.

We arent the only country in the world to have issues around rural healthcare and we need to be better at looking to Europe and seeing what we can learn from rural Europe about delivering healthcare in rural communities.




I just hope that with a yes vote, there is a continued effort by the pro indy folk to really get democracy into Scotland. Firstly a referendum on the EU, which is not on offer now.
I hope that people fight to get the services they deserve right across Scotland.

I fear however that it will all stall once the Inglish have been ran out of town.

There are pro indy people who are keen to get a referendum on Europe -I know the Scottish Government don't plan one but you will be able to vote for the party which offers that or even a straightforward exit from the EU in 2016.

[RagnarRocks]

Well my minds made up no amount of politicking from you Squidge is going to change that so I'm bailing on this thread it gets a bit like having root canal work without anaesthetic.

[ducati]

Well my minds made up no amount of politicking from you Squidge is going to change that so I'm bailing on this thread it gets a bit like having root canal work without anaesthetic.

Well, remember what a certain lady Prime Minister said. Socialism seems like a good idea until you run out of someone elses money. :roll:

[Alrock]

Well, remember what a certain lady Prime Minister said. Socialism seems like a good idea until you run out of someone elses money. :roll:

Everything seems like a good idea until you run out of money, no matter who's it is.

[ducati]

Well my minds made up no amount of politicking from you Squidge is going to change that so I'm bailing on this thread it gets a bit like having root canal work without anaesthetic.

Same here. All we've proved is it is an increasingly bitter argument. I'm not looking forward to either outcome. Some of the posters are ill informed, or blinkered due to their politics, some are frankly, barking.

All we are doing is turning off people who genuinely want answers.

And anyway the thread now has nothing to do with the original question.

[RagnarRocks]

Another day, another hole blown in Alex Salmond’s case for breaking up Britain. The IFS has today published its estimates (based on the OBR’s) for Scottish oil and gas revenues, and they’re less than half those of the SNP administration in Edinburgh.Salmond forecast oil and gas revenues of between £6.8 billion and £7.9 billion in 2016-17. The IFS puts it at £3.3 billion. Salmond’s best-case scenario for 2017-18 has Scotland with a deficit of 1.0 per cent of GDP; the IFS’s figures suggest that’ll be closer to 3.6 per cent of GDP. A country like Britain can ride out such fluctuations, but Salmond may find he’s swapping rule from London by rule by OPEC. On the basis of these new figures, the IFS has calculated that cutting an independent Scotland would have to keep cutting – if it didn’t, its deficit in 2018-19 would more than double. Salmond has complained long and loud about cuts made by the coalition in areas like welfare, but he should not pretend the fiscal options of an independent Scotland would be any more attractive.

[Mrs Bradey]

Well, remember what a certain lady Prime Minister said. Socialism seems like a good idea until you run out of someone elses money. :roll:who was that?

[Mrs Bradey]

Same here. All we've proved is it is an increasingly bitter argument. I'm not looking forward to either outcome. Some of the posters are ill informed, or blinkered due to their politics, some are frankly, barking.All we are doing is turning off people who genuinely want answers.And anyway the thread now has nothing to do with the original question.hope I have been at categorized as barking!!

[ducati]

hope I have been at categorized as barking!!

Who said that? :eek:

[bekisman]

Oh dear wot's been going on? Only been away for a couple of weeks, down in Kernow (best Cream tea in Bodmin and Philps pasties in Hayle Lizz!)
I see one of the best informed posters; RagnerRocks has been banned! Why? but having been on these pages for many a year I won't be told (PM's please?)
I read that Ducati also looks a little fed up with the ill-informed waffle that pervades this space. Oh well seems Squidge has the place to herself. Never mind another six months and this nonsense will be all over. I see that BoE bloke says that Salmond MUST go for Euro as it's (honest Alex) a non-goer with 'sharing the £'. And I can't see voters wanting the Euro, hmm.
As a matter of interest down in ENGLAND (that's not who rules Scotland, you know, England is NOT an Independent country - are the Nats aware of this?) It was intimated that they thought that Mr Salmond had said the £ was a 'stone around the Scottish neck' Eh? yes it was rather embarrassing to have to try and explain 'he'd changed his mind'. They also asked why everyone in England was a 'Toff' - this seemed to be applied to just the Tories, again I tried to explain that the Nats were not very cosmopolitan, and a lot were not well traveled, and to just well; ignore it.

Never mind, it was a nice 700+ mile drive home in lovely weather, bit of a hiatus going over the A9 where the hill-billy Councillors had decided in their ill-perceived wisdom NOT to have any service stations along the whole length - to 'help the bypassed communities' it appears (indeed) try telling that to an eight year old who 'wants a wee' and it's late with these 'by-passed communities' closed for the night! tut tut. AND these three 'over-taking lanes' that are on the same side on the way north - what idiot thought of that? Oh well must not go on.. this after all WAS an Independence thread?