View Full Version : Drummer Lee Rigby and the medias handling of the trial
RagnarRocks
12-Dec-13, 01:20
Is it just me or are the media totally pandering to the two animals who slaughtered him in cold blood in the most cowardly way possible. I'm getting sick and tired of the repeated pictures and videos of those two creatures being shown it requires no explanation and all this letting them use their jihadi names and expressing their delusional views is merely pampering to what I consider a pair of psychopathic killers using religion as an excuse for what they did.The likes of these require no more than a very short trial then implementation of the death penalty .
Is it just me or are the media totally pandering to the two animals who slaughtered him in cold blood in the most cowardly way possible. I'm getting sick and tired of the repeated pictures and videos of those two creatures being shown it requires no explanation and all this letting them use their jihadi names and expressing their delusional views is merely pampering to what I consider a pair of psychopathic killers using religion as an excuse for what they did.The likes of these require no more than a very short trial then implementation of the death penalty .
They tried that, the Police faxed it up.
orkneycadian
12-Dec-13, 09:09
A prime example of all the taxpayers time and money that we waste on supposed "justice". The guys even 'fessed up in front of an on-site jury, with video evidence being recorded, both from CCTV and the portable video cameras carried by the on site jury. It was probably even their hope to achieve martyrdom that day, and that has failed for them now as well.
Oh well, I guess whatever happens in their trial, they can be assured of being kept in warmth, comfort and with 3 square meals a day for the foreseeable future, all courtesy of us. Its a great system.
To be honest, I think the jail time they will serve will be much worse for them than a quick and painless death at the hands of a police marksman.
They will be sick of playing Mummy within a wekk and will have an anus like a ripped out fireplace in a few days.
No doubt they will meet a grizzly end either inside or shortly after release.
m.i.sinclair
12-Dec-13, 10:25
What exactly does a 'Drummer' do in the army anyway ? Surely the don't 'drum' ?
RagnarRocks
12-Dec-13, 10:32
To be honest, I think the jail time they will serve will be much worse for them than a quick and painless death at the hands of a police marksman.They will be sick of playing Mummy within a wekk and will have an anus like a ripped out fireplace in a few days.No doubt they will meet a grizzly end either inside or shortly after release.The modern prison system is so soft he will probably segregated for his own safety then allowed to preach more extremist rubbish whilst inside whilst its nice to think they will get a hard time the realities is they will get Molly coddled like the rest .
The modern prison system is so soft he will probably segregated for his own safety then allowed to preach more extremist rubbish whilst inside whilst its nice to think they will get a hard time the realities is they will get Molly coddled like the rest .
You are probably correct.
Tubthumper
12-Dec-13, 14:15
'...in the most cowardly way possible.'
I don't think the attack was cowardly; hanging around the scene then running straight at armed police likewise. William Wallace gets commended for doing far sneakier things than these guys did.
IEDs are cowardly. So are Drone attacks.
What I will do find very offensive is in the very near future there will be appeal after appeal, costing many hundreds and thousands maybe millions of our (the taxpayer's) money.
I am of the opinion once a trial is over and sentencing finished unless there is extremely grave doubts on guilt then we (taxpayer's) should not have to pay as we do at moment for all the appeals - if a person found guilty wants to appeal, pay for it out of their own pockets.
Tubthumper
12-Dec-13, 21:21
Funny how the press can be so wrong about this yet so right about things relating to independence.
What exactly does a 'Drummer' do in the army anyway ? Surely the don't 'drum' ?
Seriously...are you for real? why on earth are you on the Org? is the local kindergarten full up or has mummy gone out to do some shopping and left the PC online for you to create some more trolling posts?
m.i.sinclair
13-Dec-13, 02:25
Seriously...are you for real? why on earth are you on the Org? is the local kindergarten full up or has mummy gone out to do some shopping and left the PC online for you to create some more trolling posts?Genuine question...I'm intrigued as to what a Drummer does in the modern army. I assume they don't just stand in front of a platoon and drum them into the likes of Kabul. So is it just a ceremonial role or do they serve some useful everyday purpose?
Mrs Bradey
13-Dec-13, 11:00
Genuine question...I'm intrigued as to what a Drummer does in the modern army. I assume they don't just stand in front of a platoon and drum them into the likes of Kabul. So is it just a ceremonial role or do they serve some useful everyday purpose? all military bandsmen are fully trained fighting members of the armed forces! military bands perform an important roll during ceremonials such as ; Trooping the colour, tattoos such as at Edinburgh and of course the passing out parades of newly trained recruits. when at the front line a bandsman would be out on patrol the same as his fellow soldiers, sailors and airmen. I'm inclined to agree with Big Baz in his opinion. but as ignorance is no excuse consider yourself educated. no more silly questions please.
all military bandsmen are fully trained fighting members of the armed forces! military bands perform an important roll during ceremonials such as ; Trooping the colour, tattoos such as at Edinburgh and of course the passing out parades of newly trained recruits. when at the front line a bandsman would be out on patrol the same as his fellow soldiers, sailors and airmen. I'm inclined to agree with Big Baz in his opinion. but as ignorance is no excuse consider yourself educated. no more silly questions please.
Well said Mrs Bradley. Can I just add that there is a difference between Bandsmen and Musicians in the Army. Bandsmen in the Regiment's Corps of Drums or Pipe Band form a fighting platoon and carry out infantry duties; they may for instance form the Defence Platoon for the Battalion HQ. Musicians are also usually trained Medical Orderlies and man the Regimental Aid Post; they have usually formed stretcher parties to remove wounded to the RAP. The primary role of the infantry is to take and hold ground and since modern warfare is so very complex all members of the unit have to be flexible in order to inovate, adapt and overcome.
We have to accept that there will always be people like m.i.sinclair who will snipe from the comfort of their armchair, happy to display their ignorance of anything to do with the military.
Mrs Bradey
13-Dec-13, 11:39
Well said Mrs Bradley. Can I just add that there is a difference between Bandsmen and Musicians in the Army. Bandsmen in the Regiment's Corps of Drums or Pipe Band form a fighting platoon and carry out infantry duties; they may for instance form the Defence Platoon for the Battalion HQ. Musicians are also usually trained Medical Orderlies and man the Regimental Aid Post; they have usually formed stretcher parties to remove wounded to the RAP. The primary role of the infantry is to take and hold ground and since modern warfare is so very complex all members of the unit have to be flexible in order to inovate, adapt and overcome,We have to accept that there will always be people like m.i.sinclair who will snipe from the comfort of their armchair, happy to display their ignorance of anything to do with the military. exactly a friend of mine is an army accountant and referred to by the ranks as a shiney arse (as he sits down all day) but he still as to do weapons and combat training. respect to all those serving with HMAF
neilsermk1
13-Dec-13, 13:07
What exactly does a 'Drummer' do in the army anyway ? Surely the don't 'drum' ?
Yes they do, however they are usually tasked as Machine Gunners as well
oodyourdabe
13-Dec-13, 13:51
I don't believe in Religion and I do not believe in War.
You often hear people saying how Britain should "close the doors" to other races which I firmly disagree with. What I think is that Religion should be dealt with. How many conflicts (Wars or Incidents such as the one being discussed in this thread) have been done in the name of Religion? (Which by the way is something 100% non-provable and easily debunked)
I also don't believe in men and woman fighting in another country in the name of War. I would agree with building a strong defence against outside acts of War and Terrorism but it seems ironic to me when our troops are over gunning down people (both gulty and innocent) we are supposed to support them and praise them yet if these two people have committed an atrocity like this they are terrorists?
It's all down to beliefs. Most people will believe the war is for a good cause and that our troops are correct. Then you have terrorists believing they are correct and believing their story of religion.
But I look at it like this, stick to what can be proved and what we 100% know is true. We are all human beings. I believe life is sacred as it is the only thing you cannot get back in any way, shape or form once you lose it. If someone else is attempting to kill and hurt other people then we have to deal with it in the best possible manner to avoid innocents being hurt. Defend and stop the enemies in their tracks - Yes, Fight a war with countless of innocent civilians being killed - No.
Religion is the fuel to the fire here and must be stopped. And I haven't even began to talk about the Sharia Law debate...
President Putin said:
We must create the conditions for immigrants to normally integrate into
our society, learn Russian and, of course, respect our culture and traditions
and abide by Russian law.
Why can't Britain take this view?
I don't believe in Religion and I do not believe in War.You often hear people saying how Britain should "close the doors" to other races which I firmly disagree with. What I think is that Religion should be dealt with. How many conflicts (Wars or Incidents such as the one being discussed in this thread) have been done in the name of Religion? (Which by the way is something 100% non-provable and easily debunked)I also don't believe in men and woman fighting in another country in the name of War. I would agree with building a strong defence against outside acts of War and Terrorism but it seems ironic to me when our troops are over gunning down people (both gulty and innocent) we are supposed to support them and praise them yet if these two people have committed an atrocity like this they are terrorists?It's all down to beliefs. Most people will believe the war is for a good cause and that our troops are correct. Then you have terrorists believing they are correct and believing their story of religion.But I look at it like this, stick to what can be proved and what we 100% know is true. We are all human beings. I believe life is sacred as it is the only thing you cannot get back in any way, shape or form once you lose it. If someone else is attempting to kill and hurt other people then we have to deal with it in the best possible manner to avoid innocents being hurt. Defend and stop the enemies in their tracks - Yes, Fight a war with countless of innocent civilians being killed - No.Religion is the fuel to the fire here and must be stopped. And I haven't even began to talk about the Sharia Law debate...President Putin said:
We must create the conditions for immigrants to normally integrate into our society, learn Russian and, of course, respect our culture and traditions and abide by Russian law. Why can't Britain take this view?A way off topic now but I have no issue with immigrants in the country but they should not get one iota from the state.If they want to be here fine but they pay for everything.
I also don't believe in men and woman fighting in another country in the name of War. I would agree with building a strong defence against outside acts of War and Terrorism but it seems ironic to me when our troops are over gunning down people (both gulty and innocent) we are supposed to support them and praise them yet if these two people have committed an atrocity like this they are terrorists.
Oh if only life were so simple oodyourdabe. I reckon there's a significant population of the military who'd rather not fight in a foreign land too. But in this parliamentary democracy it's the government that decides where and when to go to war. At the end of the day the military are but a tool used by the elected government to promote its foreign policy agenda. While democracy isn't perfect, if you disagree with what the military are doing tackle your MP, use your vote.
People join the military for a multitude of reasons, the least of which is to go "gunning down people." Supporting members of the military is very different from supporting the government's foreign policy objectives.
oodyourdabe
13-Dec-13, 15:29
A way off topic now but I have no issue with immigrants in the country but they should not get one iota from the state.If they want to be here fine but they pay for everything.
How is this way off topic?
Some quotes from the thread:
"what I consider a pair of psychopathic killers using religion as an excuse for what they did"
"segregated for his own safety then allowed to preach more extremist rubbish "
"costing many hundreds and thousands maybe millions of our (the taxpayer's) money."
We can't complain about wasting the tax payers money on these people and jail when Churches are exempt from taxes?
Preaching extremist rubbish? Who says who is right in what they believe?
How do we stop someone using Religion as an excuse? Remove?Export it.
A defensive army is one thing, but for this one person who has died in this terrible attack he is a mere statistic. We find this shocking because our country isn't used to this kind of atrocity... however I believe it will be in the forseeable future if Religion is allowed to continue.
At the end of the day we are all keyboard warriors who are entitled to an opinion (that we aren't obliged to express) and will probably achieve little if anything from these discussions apart from negativity whilst we disagree with each other.
At the end of the day each to their own, but no one deserves to die whether it be in an unprovoked attack in the streets like in the story upon which this thread is based, or in war.
Mrs Bradey
13-Dec-13, 15:38
A way off topic now but I have no issue with immigrants in the country but they should not get one iota from the state.If they want to be here fine but they pay for everything. here here! we should take on the Australia approach, which is; NO MONEY - NO SKILLS - NO LANGUAGE - NO ENTRY.
A way off topic now but I have no issue with immigrants in the country but they should not get one iota from the state.If they want to be here fine but they pay for everything.What do you think they get?
Far too much money from the public purse in handouts, free schooling, free healthcare.................Of you are not a national you should get nothing.
Mrs Bradey
13-Dec-13, 19:34
What do you think they get? you tell me what you think they get?
Genuine question...I'm intrigued as to what a Drummer does in the modern army. I assume they don't just stand in front of a platoon and drum them into the likes of Kabul. So is it just a ceremonial role or do they serve some useful everyday purpose?
Fusilier Rigby was a member of the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers and Infantry Regiment, a proper soldier and a musician also hence the title Drummer a second job.
you tell me what you think they get?I dont know. Thats why im asking.
Far too much money from the public purse in handouts, free schooling, free healthcare.................Of you are not a national you should get nothing.Handouts? If they are working arent their taxes paying for education and their NI contributions paying for health?
How long would you make them wait before they could send their children to school or have their broken leg fixed?
Mrs Bradey
13-Dec-13, 23:56
Handouts? If they are working arent their taxes paying for education and their NI contributions paying for health?How long would you make them wait before they could send their children to school or have their broken leg fixed? as you so rightly put it.....if they are working!
Handouts? If they are working arent their taxes paying for education and their NI contributions paying for health?How long would you make them wait before they could send their children to school or have their broken leg fixed? until the cheque clears
Definitely getting somewhere now.
I think we'll have the Lee Rigby issue sorted really soon.
I don't understand what the 2 Murderers are using as their Not Guilty Plea?
They claim they are at war therefore not murder
orkneycadian
28-Dec-13, 11:36
A prime example of all the taxpayers time and money that we waste on supposed "justice". The guys even 'fessed up in front of an on-site jury, with video evidence being recorded, both from CCTV and the portable video cameras carried by the on site jury. It was probably even their hope to achieve martyrdom that day, and that has failed for them now as well.
Oh well, I guess whatever happens in their trial, they can be assured of being kept in warmth, comfort and with 3 square meals a day for the foreseeable future, all courtesy of us. Its a great system.
I see more evidence today of how well our "justice" system works
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-25526280
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-25526280)
Modern prison techniques obviously work well in protecting our communities against repeat crime. I am so glad that the SNP Prospectus for an independent Scotland tells us that there will be no change to the way Justice is handled should we become independent.
weezer 316
31-Dec-13, 13:00
Christ this hasnt half brought the loonies out.
First off, ill take a justice system over the nonsense spouted on here. Every man, regardless of their crime, has the right to defend themselves. The rascist, xenophobc nonsense spouted on here is something I dont want in thie country, give me 1000 non-nutty nigerians over every "british national" on this forum anyday.
Furthermore, somehow this has become about race. Its actually about religion. These guys killed in these name of Islam. Imagine getting killed over a tale akin to Cinderella? Thats the real issue, not th colour of the guys nor the fact the bloke was a squaddie.
Infact there is another issue, the complete and utter worship of the armed forces. I was a squaddie for a while. Let me tell you, there aint much to worship bar a mostly directionless bunch of young boys who are looking for a bit of guidance.
orkneycadian
04-Jan-14, 11:15
Christ this hasnt half brought the loonies out.
Why thank you! :)
Every man, regardless of their crime, has the right to defend themselves.
More accurate to perhaps say that every criminal has the right to defend themself, or, have the justice system provide a defence for them. Its depressing to read on a daily basis on places like the BBC news website of folk being murdered, raped and plundered up and down the country. Its not always the most visible, as sometimes, "news" like "there has been some weather in England today" masks the story of yet another woman found murdered. The murderer always has the right to a fair trial, human rights, a comfy bed and 3 square meals a day courtesy of the taxpayer. Where, meanwhile, are the victims rights? Before they get slain, are they given the opportunity for a "trial" to see if they should live or die? Do they have access to a free lawyer on hand to see if their human rights will be infringed if their life is cut short?
RagnarRocks
04-Jan-14, 11:20
I feel that my main issue is the perpetrators of these heinous crimes being given such lenient sentences. I really fail to see the point of giving someone a 20 yr sentence knowing full well that they will be released after 6. I think our illustrious leaders need to get a grip of the judiciary and start ensuring that when a sentence is handed down it is what it is. 20 yrs should be 20yrs maybe with time added for bad behaviour as per the military rather than time off for good behaviour.
What's the alternative? Do we scrap the free council system so that only the few who can afford it are represented in court.That wouldn't bode well for joe blogs who has been wrongly accused of murder, rape or whatever.I agree representing the guilty is a financial burden but it's a necessary one to maintain our judiciary system and protect the innocent.
orkneycadian
04-Jan-14, 11:28
I really fail to see the point of giving someone a 20 yr sentence knowing full well that they will be released after 6.
And, as in post #33 above, continue where they left off with whatever unfinished business they were going about before they were mildly inconvenienced at Her Majesties Pleasure.
RagnarRocks
04-Jan-14, 11:28
I've no problem with people having representation but the endless appeals and getting people off on technicalities of law rather than the actual crime being dealt with undermines public trust in the system. An example was a case recently in England where the police had not filed a piece of paper on time and the criminal walking, that is where the system goes wrong it should be all about the crime not if someone has made a mistake putting a full stop in rather than an apostrophe
orkneycadian
04-Jan-14, 11:32
What's the alternative? Do we scrap the free council system so that only the few who can afford it are represented in court.That wouldn't bode well for joe blogs who has been wrongly accused of murder, rape or whatever.I agree representing the guilty is a financial burden but it's a necessary one to maintain our judiciary system and protect the innocent.
There would be an awful lot more resources available to protect the wrongly accused if we stopped squandering them on the downright and unmistakenly guilty.
Are appeals not granted/declined by the system on a case by case basis Or are they a right?
Mrs Bradey
04-Jan-14, 12:18
What's the alternative? Do we scrap the free council system so that only the few who can afford it are represented in court.That wouldn't bode well for joe blogs who has been wrongly accused of murder, rape or whatever.I agree representing the guilty is a financial burden but it's a necessary one to maintain our judiciary system and protect the innocent.the system is almost as you describe it now! with recent cuts to the legal aid budget. it is now just the wealthy that can obtain justice in any case they choose. the poor have to prove there case to the legal aid board before going to court. this means the case is pretty much heard twice!!! money well spent! full stops . and comma's in the right place, too . are important;
orkneycadian
05-Jan-14, 12:09
It appears then that the time is right for a major overhaul of the legal and justice system. If Scotland were to become independent, that would be a great opportunity to do it, although I understand it wouldn't be conditional. i.e. we could have a Scottish Justice system overhaul without being independent.
Just a shame that the SNP and Yes camp haven't seized this opportunity, both to get a working justice system in place, and bolster the chances of a Yes vote in September.
Mrs Bradey
05-Jan-14, 12:43
It appears then that the time is right for a major overhaul of the legal and justice system. If Scotland were to become independent, that would be a great opportunity to do it, although I understand it would be conditional. i.e. we could have a Scottish Justice system overhaul without being independent.Just a shame that the SNP and Yes camp haven't seized this opportunity, both to get a working justice system in place, and bolster the chances of a Yes vote in September.I have written a few times to Kenny mcKasgill suggesting changes. only got one reply that was not very helpful!
orkneycadian
05-Jan-14, 12:50
Kenny "In Scotland, you only need to serve 11 days per person murdered" McCaskill?
Kenny "Meanwhile, lets get draconian with hobbies enjoyed by all (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24462796) even though the Association of Scottish Police Superintendants disagree with us and our own figures show that crimes involving such equipment is on a significant downward trend (http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0043/00438302.pdf)" McKaskill?
Mrs Bradey
05-Jan-14, 13:04
that sounds like the fella! on many counts the Scottish legal system (on paper) is better than in England. there are exceptions, like in England and Wales in the small claims court the upper limit is £10,000 whereas in Scotland it is still only £3,000 !!! this means cases that should be dealt with cheaply in small claims court , are put to the more expensive sheriff court, poor people can't afford this, and the wealthy (on many) occasions escape justice. such is life
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