View Full Version : Government Proposed Car Tax Scheme
Penelope Pitstop
09-Feb-07, 15:49
Hi everyone,
I received this e-mail about the Goverments proposed car tax scheme. Has anyone read or heard anything about this? (Sorry if it has been posted here before, but I haven't seen it.) (As at today when I had a look there were over 900,000 signatures on the petition.)
If you drive a car, please read -
Sarah Kennedy was talking about this proposed car tax scheme on Radio 2. Apparently there is only one month left to register your objection to the 'Pay As You Go' road tax.
The petition is on the 10 Downing St website but they didn't tell anybody about it. Therefore at the time of Sarah's comments only 250,000 people had signed it and 750,000 signatures are required for the government to at least take any notice.
Once you've given your details (you don't have to give your full address, just house number and postcode will do), they will send you an email with a link in it. Once you click on that link, you'll have signed the petition.
The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it. The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC, the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working mother who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month.
On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit in time you can probably expect a Notice of Intended Prosecution with your monthly bill.
If you are concerned about this Orwellian plan and want to stop the constant bashing of the car driver, please sign the petition on No 10's new website (link below) and pass this on to as many people as possible. Sign up if you value your freedom and democratic rights -
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax (http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax)
Flyermonkey
09-Feb-07, 16:47
My understanding of this, and please correct me / rip me to bits if I am wrong, is that this mileage tax will take the place of fuel duty and road tax. The per mile amount that you will be charged will be dependent on what time of day you are travelling and how congested the road that you are travelling on is.
I am sure I read somewhere that driving on an uncongested rural road will incur a minimal expense (about 1p / mile??).
Now, calculating this out for me, up in Caithness....
I currently drive from Halkirk to Wick 5 days a week - about 44 miles return. Now the road is almost always near empty and is generally a quiet rural road, thus I would expect to pay about 44p a day or thereabouts which calculates out to be £8.80 approx. a month. At the moment my petrol bill is about £120 a month (of which approx. £80 is tax) and my car tax bill is £15 a month meaning that I currently pay about £95 a month in tax for going to work! Thats before I even include trips away or anything like that. So, even if I am charged 5p a mile (5 times my previous figure) to drive to work in the morning I am still much better off!
There has been much discussion on this board previously about fuel tax and how it is unfair to rural communities who have to use their vehicles to get around (and generally on uncongested cheaply maintained rural roads) so therefore does it not balance it out much more in our favour if we pay per mile?
The figures that the BBC are quoting and other similair ones that I have seen are often based on people driving about cities (where there are plenty of alternative transport options) or in busy built up areas - have you ever tried to drive past Manchester at 5pm? Quite rightly you should be charged far more in these areas, as (a) there are alternative means of getting around (b) it would discourage people from driving at peak times and thus greatly reduce congestion. The rural florist quoted would have to pay £28 a month which I suspect is a lot lower than her current taxation levels?
It seems a fairer way of doing things to me?
As to the tracking devices I do think that the issue is being clouded by 'eye in the sky' paranoia - if the government are so desperate to track us they already can via mobile phone records / CCTV / gatso cameras etc so really a GPS system in a car won't make a lot of difference. Given the current vitriol shown for speed cameras I doubt the government would be so politically stupid as to include speeding fines with the monthly bills.
On general taxing people for when and where they drive seems a radical but sensible solution to the road congestion problem - and should also help reduce carbon emissions - especially in places where car journeys may well not be necessary. Look at how many car journeys have been cut by the introduction of the congestion charge in London.
Anyway, befoe you run off and sign the petition, take time to think about it and what it would mean for us up here in Caithness.
Penelope Pitstop
09-Feb-07, 17:37
Thanks Flyermonkey
That's certainly food for thought.
I've had a wee look on the net about what folk are saying about it and they seem to think that it won't replace the fuel tax duty. (I don't know if this is correct tho.)
Flyermonkey
09-Feb-07, 17:57
I take your point;
The BBC have gone from reporting that the government would definitely replace the road and fuel tax (reported 2005)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4610901.stm
to this report in Dec 2006 where the government are saying they would if it was economically feasable
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6160877.stm
Only the Telegraph is saying that the government probably wouldn't replace them but it would significantly reduce the current taxes
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/12/nroads12.xml
Either way most of the reports seem to concede that rural drivers would be better off and city ones worse off - which is really the point of the whole excercise and why it wouldn't be in our rural interests to sign the petition!
Thanks Flyermonkey
That's certainly food for thought.
I've had a wee look on the net about what folk are saying about it and they seem to think that it won't replace the fuel tax duty. (I don't know if this is correct tho.)
I have read quite a bit about this too and I've never seen any indication that fuel tax would be removed. As far as I know it would just replace road tax, we would be taxed three times on each mile.
Penelope Pitstop
09-Feb-07, 20:20
Thanks Fred
It is a worrying thought.
I strongly suspect that HM Government will just make us pay the current level of duty or more on fuel, the current duty or more on VEL and the new road pricing system. They are not going to dispose of their golden goose that easily.
just wondering hows all this going to affect those folks with mobility.??:confused
Penelope Pitstop
09-Feb-07, 23:54
just wondering hows all this going to affect those folks with mobility.??:confused
Yeah Johno
That's also a worrying thought. Don't know if this proposed scheme mentions anything about disabled?
I am in principle in favour of a 'pay as you go' scheme but not like this. I am more in favour of a 'Domestic Carbon Token Scheme' where each of us is allotted so much carbon points per year in relation to not just transport but heating ad lecky use as well and we can use them up or buy or sell them if necessary. For those people that live in a county with lots of wind and who don't go anywhere then they would make lots of money...:roll:
j4bberw0ck
10-Feb-07, 10:45
The BBC have gone from reporting that the government would definitely replace the road and fuel tax (reported 2005)
The whole road pricing exercise is another lot of Government-gone-mad bollocks - can I say that :eek: ?
If they're serious about environment and roads there's a simple mechanism already in place - petroleum tax. I don't want to pay more for my motoring but anyone who believes they'll save £100 a week on their motoring is living in cloud cuckoo land and probably believes there are fairies at the bottom of the garden, too. Sure enough, that would be the BBC for starters.
I'll tell you now that if road duty and petrol taxes are done away with, and courtesy of road pricing I no longer have to worry about the price of petrol then the little and economical car I drive is away, replaced by a sodding great 4x4 like the Landie I used to have <sigh>. But no turbodiesel for me - oh no - it'll be a 3.5 V8 with a bit of poke in it and 12 to the gallon :lol:.
And all those motorway traffic queues on the M25 will consist of Range Rovers, BMW X5's, Merc 4x4s, Nissan pickups because if you don't have to worry about fuel costs any more, why not have one? They're comfortable and fun, and a mile in one of those'll cost the same as a mile in Toyota Priapus. Or was it a Toyota Pious? Oh no, Prius. That's right.
The utter, desperate, incredible stupidity of Government never ceases to astonish. 4x4 manufacturers must be praying for road pricing....
I am in principle in favour of a 'pay as you go' scheme but not like this. I am more in favour of a 'Domestic Carbon Token Scheme' where each of us is allotted so much carbon points per year in relation to not just transport but heating ad lecky use as well and we can use them up or buy or sell them if necessary. For those people that live in a county with lots of wind and who don't go anywhere then they would make lots of money...:roll:
And you create a commodity out of nothing, manufacture wealth, it's the philosophers stone.
But there is a catch, the rich would want to carry on living in the opulence they are accustomed to, the money they use to buy tokens from the poor person who needs it to feed and clothe his children they would take back by taking higher wages, the extra wealth is paid for by inflation, when the poor man goes to buy the food and clothes for his children he finds he is paying more for them. When the government works out how much they will give to pensioners, the disabled, the unemployed, when the supermarkets work out how much to pay the person who stacks the shelves will they look at the money they can get selling tokens as their bonus? Or will they take it into account and continue paying them as little as they can get away with?
It's rampant capitalism that got us into this mess, it isn't going to get us out of it.
So pleased to see this thread as I have also received one of these emails and treated it with the suspicion I always do with chain-mails as every one I've had in the past has been phony and just creating spam. This one looked worth investigating but no-one here seems to know exactly what is proposed. I thought I heard somewhere, once, that larger cars would be taxed more but maybe just another rumour. In Richmond, Surrey, thanks to a former neighbour of mine, you now have to pay more to park a large car so it would seem logical but who knows. When was our govt. ever logical?
Before we all get too excited, does anyone know the truth? Give us the facts, man.
j4bberw0ck
11-Feb-07, 01:10
It's rampant capitalism that got us into this mess, it isn't going to get us out of it.
I'd be interested to hear what will, if not capitalism. With all its faults it's the nearest thing to a working economic system anyone's ever found. Creating a personal market in carbon tokens would act in the same way as our wholly corrupt tax system in the UK, where the lowest earners pay the highest marginal rates of tax. To that extent, I agree Fred has a point, but Rheghead is totally up an economic gum tree.
Capitalism is the only thing that might have a chance of changing the world for the better. Let's start with shifting the tax burden from indirect taxes to direct taxes - at a flat rate with a tax-free allowance that lifts the poorest out of tax altogether.. That'll cut the Inland Revenue down from 70000 employees to a fraction of that number - tax evasion will be difficult and hardly worth it. Imagine running a company and calulating your PAYE; tax due = (total payroll - (number of employees x tax free allowance) x n %) where n is the flat rate of tax.
No allowances, no tax credits, no smoke and mirrors, no department full of people administering PAYE..... sounds good to me.
And you create a commodity out of nothing, manufacture wealth, it's the philosophers stone.
But there is a catch, the rich would want to carry on living in the opulence they are accustomed to, the money they use to buy tokens from the poor person who needs it to feed and clothe his children they would take back by taking higher wages, the extra wealth is paid for by inflation, when the poor man goes to buy the food and clothes for his children he finds he is paying more for them. When the government works out how much they will give to pensioners, the disabled, the unemployed, when the supermarkets work out how much to pay the person who stacks the shelves will they look at the money they can get selling tokens as their bonus? Or will they take it into account and continue paying them as little as they can get away with?
It's rampant capitalism that got us into this mess, it isn't going to get us out of it.
I think if you tried to convince me that communist regimes were any environmentally friendlier than capitalist ones then you will have a job on yer hands.[lol]
How is the commodity made out of nothing, the roads need to be funded some how.
Are you ashamed of making money?
I think if you tried to convince me that communist regimes were any environmentally friendlier than capitalist ones then you will have a job on yer hands.[lol]
Who said anything about Communism? Politics isn't a straight line between Fascism and Communism you know, it's a lot more complicated than that. But I don't think it is any coincidence that the the country which produces the most greenhouse gasses is the most capitalist.
How is the commodity made out of nothing, the roads need to be funded some how.
The roads already are funded, only a fraction of motoring taxes get spent on them. You wern't talking about a way of funding roads, you were talking about carbon rationing with the rich being able to buy the poor peoples ration books. The right to produce carbon becomes a commodity.
Are you ashamed of making money?
Making money is nothing to be ashamed of, it's greed that is the sin.
I'd be interested to hear what will, if not capitalism. With all its faults it's the nearest thing to a working economic system anyone's ever found. Creating a personal market in carbon tokens would act in the same way as our wholly corrupt tax system in the UK, where the lowest earners pay the highest marginal rates of tax. To that extent, I agree Fred has a point, but Rheghead is totally up an economic gum tree.
I said rampant capitalism, capitalism was a good idea for telecommunications, a disaster for trains. Problem is there are so many people so fixed on their own political ideologies they refuse to consider anything else, they see their system as the cure of all ills instead of picking the right tool for the job.
Capitalism is the only thing that might have a chance of changing the world for the better. Let's start with shifting the tax burden from indirect taxes to direct taxes - at a flat rate with a tax-free allowance that lifts the poorest out of tax altogether..
That would mean that the masses would actually know how much they pay in tax, no government would ever consider revealing that secret.
As it is they can take a good chunk of a man's pay packet, then when the man stops to fill up his car he pays 60% of the cost of the petrol in fuel duty then he pays 17% VAT and he doesn't stop and think that he's paying VAT on the fuel tax, he is even taxed on the taxes he pays.
Have you all been taken in by this fake propaganda
http://www.dcthomson.co.uk/mags/post/news.htm
While the roads pricing plan is purely in the governments "pending tray" the point is they are considering it. If no e-petition was started and signed then there is no doubt they will beaver away behind closed doors to bring this online.
The rogue e-mails state that not only does the Government want to introduce road pricing — which they are considering — but also charging drivers £200 to have tracking devices fitted to their cars so that their speed and exact location can be monitored.
If these devices cost £200 then there is every possibility that the motorist WILL have to pay for them in some form. Either as a one off payment or part payment. With somewhere between 25-30 million cars on the road that is a lot of money for the government to pay up...
A transport minister has dismissed the claims as “nonsense”.
Well of course he will....
One of the e-mails states, “On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times.
“They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit you can expect an additional fine with your monthly bill.
“It’s not limited to speeding. They also know where parking restrictions, etc, are located. And you!”
This is true - in my previous job the vehicles were being fitted with "black boxes" which could track the vehicles (and the drivers) every move. If the vehicle was static for any length of time the control room would know. This is not sci-fi, unfortunately it is all very possible...
“The circulating e-mails are misleading. They contain details of black boxes in cars, billing and charges, etc, which are based purely on assumption. They do not reflect the Government’s policy.”
Roads Minister Stephen Ladyman said, “The petition is so full of inaccuracies I would be tempted to sign it myself. I do not take it very seriously. There is a debate to be had. I said we have a long way to go to convince people.”
Once again, any minister is going to poo-poo the idea of the e-petition. Especially the man behind the governments roads policy...
From 2005 (my emphasis):
Drivers could pay up to £1.34 a mile in "pay-as-you go" road charges under new government plans.
The transport secretary said the charges, aimed at cutting congestion, would replace road tax and petrol duty.
Alistair Darling said change was needed if the UK was to avoid the possibility of "LA-style gridlock" within 20 years.
Every vehicle would have a black box to allow a satellite system to track their journey, with prices starting from as little as 2p per mile in rural areas.
Source: Blair Broadcasting Co. - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4610755.stm
It's not 'fake propaganda' Golach - while this government is involved in all the deceit and lying it has been, with the first PM in modern history being interviewed TWICE now by police (the second time was kept secret until just the other day) and the slease and corruption of recent years I would not believe a word that comes from the mouth of any minister or government spokesman.....
Maybe we need another mass protest like the fuel pickets to wake these arrogant politicians from their stupor.......
It's not 'fake propaganda' Golach - while this government is involved in all the deceit and lying it has been, with the first PM in modern history being interviewed TWICE now by police (the second time was kept secret until just the other day) and the slease and corruption of recent years I would not believe a word that comes from the mouth of any minister or government spokesman..........
MP on reading this, I came over all peculiar, I had a horrible vison of you being a sock puppet of fred or vica versa [lol]
I didn't post that!
Oh no, perhaps fred has taken me over...
j4bberw0ck
11-Feb-07, 13:21
Have you all been taken in by this fake propaganda
http://www.dcthomson.co.uk/mags/post/news.htm
Once again, any minister is going to poo-poo the idea of the e-petition. Especially the man behind the governments roads policy...
That's as neat a job of discrediting the petition as I'd ever have thought possible.
People "sign" the petition, feeling hopeful and angry and yet knowing deep down they don't have a prayer of changing anything.
Then along comes the Government minister and pooh-poohs the content of the information to the public and agrees that he too would sign it "if it were true".
So the petition is rubbished, and off the agenda. Looks as though I might get my 4x4 yet!
I didn't post that!
Oh no, perhaps fred has taken me over...
You just pander to the clique Madpict then you can have a nice easy time and not have them slinging mud at you all over the place. Don't bother having any opinions of your own, it's much easier to just go along with what they tell you.
Ah fred, I am my own man - and like many things mentioned on this forum, the "clique" is purely in the fevered imaginations of some members.
j4bberw0ck
11-Feb-07, 19:49
Who said anything about Communism? Politics isn't a straight line between Fascism and Communism you know, it's a lot more complicated than that. But I don't think it is any coincidence that the the country which produces the most greenhouse gasses is the most capitalist.
On a point of information, will my learned friend not accept that the doctrine of Fascism (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/fascism) is actually far more to do with Communism and Socialism than anything else? Also, that the Nazis (to whom it's most often applied) and Mussolini's lot were actually carrying on a great European tradition of socialism which is still in evidence today? They were, after all, National Socialists.
Making money is nothing to be ashamed of, it's greed that is the sin.
Amen.
I said rampant capitalism, capitalism was a good idea for telecommunications, a disaster for trains.
Yes, you did say "rampant" capitalism. And I have to agree with your conclusions about telecommunications and trains, too..... http://www.teddies.be/Forum/images/smiles/schiesbude.gif
Problem is there are so many people so fixed on their own political ideologies they refuse to consider anything else, they see their system as the cure of all ills instead of picking the right tool for the job.
Also true. The same extends to analysis of conspiracy theories... http://www.teddies.be/Forum/images/smiles/oops.gif
That would mean that the masses would actually know how much they pay in tax, no government would ever consider revealing that secret.
As it is they can take a good chunk of a man's pay packet, then when the man stops to fill up his car he pays 60% of the cost of the petrol in fuel duty then he pays 17% VAT and he doesn't stop and think that he's paying VAT on the fuel tax, he is even taxed on the taxes he pays.
Or that up here it means that we pay effectively a higher rate of fuel duty and VAT because fuel costs are higher. Transparency in taxation would be a wonderful way of keeping a government under a little more control and accountability.
On a point of information, will my learned friend not accept that the doctrine of Fascism (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/fascism) is actually far more to do with Communism and Socialism than anything else? Also, that the Nazis (to whom it's most often applied) and Mussolini's lot were actually carrying on a great European tradition of socialism which is still in evidence today? They were, after all, National Socialists.
Fascism is generally regarded as an extreme right wing party because they believe in corporatism and nationalism and because they are authoritarian. What Hitlers party called itself has nothing to do with it, New Labour call themselves socialist as well.
How it works in practice is something else entirely, as I said.
cuddlepop
13-Feb-07, 13:01
Headlines in today's Daily Mail..
PAY AS YOU DRIVE,BUT
ONLY IN
SCOTLAND.
SCots face crippling"poll tax on wheels"while minister admits plan may be axed down south.
Why am I not suprised.:mad:
Headlines in today's Daily Mail..
PAY AS YOU DRIVE,BUT
ONLY IN
SCOTLAND.
SCots face crippling"poll tax on wheels"while minister admits plan may be axed down south.
Why am I not suprised.:mad:
This is because some pillock of an MSP has decided that whatever the Westminster Wallys' decide, it would be a good idea for Scotland to go ahead anyway.
I have signed the No10 petition and I believe well over a million other people have.
j4bberw0ck
13-Feb-07, 17:19
Interesting read (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/business/yourmoney/11view.html?ex=1328850000&en=3190629eb83a26de&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss), with economics overlay. Enjoy!
This is because some pillock of an MSP has decided that whatever the Westminster Wallys' decide, it would be a good idea for Scotland to go ahead anyway.
I have signed the No10 petition and I believe well over a million other people have.
Rather similar situation with the Poll Tax, the Poll tax was coming but the Scottish MPs pushed it on to Scotland before the rest of the UK. The pay as you drive scheme will be UK wide eventually.
Valerie Campbell
14-Feb-07, 12:49
Anyone who has a car should sign this petition. Think of all the folk who have no choice but to drive to work. It's expensive enough as it is without the govenement forcing people to have black boxes fitted to their cars, probably at the motorists cost then paying per mile on a sliding scale. Is Wick to Thurso going to cost £2 a mile because it's a main route? Thankfully we can use all the back roads at quarter the price...
Flyermonkey
14-Feb-07, 16:50
Here we go again....
See my earlier posts on this subject - a number of reliable sources (specifically the BBC) state that this tax will be a replacement for current road tax and a whole or partial replacement for fuel tax. The whole point of changing the tax is to prevent or aleviate road congestion in urban / busy areas. The last time I checked (8.30am this morning) the Thurso - Wick road was neither busy nor congested and would therefore qualify for the lowest mileage charge (2p per mile).
I, for one, have long been upset about the amount of fuel tax we have to pay up here because of the amount of use we have to make of cars due to our rural location. The pay per mile tax seems to me by far the best way of solving this problem. At the moment we rural drivers are subsidising motorways / bypasses / road schemes down South which we can rarely use. On top of which a lot of these new roads are unneccesary because there are plenty of trains, buses and other transport available, unlike up here.
I am all for the road charging simply because, for once, it will reduce the costs for rural drivers while sensibly helping to reduce congestion and pollution in the cities where it is most damaging. I do think it is unfortunate that too many people have lept onto this scare mongering email (a lot of which is exagerated / untrue) without thinking through the idea sensibly. Although the government are generally incompetent they do occasionally come up with radical and sensible solutions to problems that have to be dealt with of which this is one.
I would be willing to reconsider if someone can think up a better way to charge for motoring that would cut back the costs for rural drivers and aleviate the nightmare congestion and grid lock that is coming to a city near (or nowhere near) you.
j4bberw0ck
14-Feb-07, 17:21
Still, I'll be interested to see how the environmental lobby are appeased if road pricing truly does replace fuel taxes and road duty licences. If a mile in a Range Rover costs the same as a mile in a Toyota Pious, it'll be 4x4's all round.
Therefore I question any assurances that road pricing will be a replacement. But then again, I'd question any government or BBC assurance about almost anything.[evil]
The BBC a reliable source? Well I suppose it is if you want dumbed down pro Blair reporting.....
Flyermonkey
14-Feb-07, 18:51
The BBC a reliable source? Well I suppose it is if you want dumbed down pro Blair reporting.....
In an earlier post I also quoted the Daily Telegraph as a source of the same information which, I am sure no matter how hard you try, is hardly known for 'pro-Blair reporting'!!
In referrence to 4x4s costing the same as a Toyota Prius I think we can be reasonably confident that in the final proposal the type of car you drive will be taken into consideration for the road pricing tax - for the very reasons stated. But even if they don't take it into consideration it is still going to cost the average 4x4 driver considerably more to fill up their tank than the average Toyota Prius driver (I am not saying that pay as you go road tax should replace fuel costs completely, only the approx. 60% tax element!).
I am still waiting for a valid reason why we, in rural Scotland, shouldn't support the idea of a pay as you go road tax instead of current levels of road tax & fuel duty?
Should we not be campaigning for it as a replacement for the two current taxes rather than just chucking the baby out with the bathwater?
I'm sure the government will be only too happy to trial their road pricing scheme in Scotland (without reducing the tax burden on fuel or the VEL).......
Muahahahahahahahahahaha.......
j4bberw0ck
14-Feb-07, 20:32
Well, here's something I posted in the National Identity Card thread in August last year, dealing with road pricing:
<snip> It's important because whenever governments put in a system to track / monitor / charge, the whole of human ingenuity is diverted into getting round it. Examples:
1. Governments charge tax on income. As tax rates go higher people resort to more and more elaborate ways of disguising their income or avoiding tax. "Is it cash?" is just the start.
2. Government sets limits on "duty free" goods or goods bought in an area of lower tax rates. Before you know it you have a sub-industry of people bring in alcohol and tobacco for resale.
3. Government introduces speed cameras. Result: an immediate market in camera detectors (legal or otherwise), laser jammers, RF jammers and simple Bowden cable devices which allow a motorcyclist to "flip" his rear numberplate up so it can't be photographed. Also sprays which allegedly mask your numberplate from the camera, fresnel lens numberplates - there is no limit to human ingenuity.
The government can't even make tagging of offenders work properly. How they'd make tracking the movements of 25 million vehicles from minute to minute work is beyond me.
Follow the logic above. Government decrees you'll pay by the mile and it's now compulsory to fit a black box to track movement. If black boxes go faulty at the rate of say 0.5%, then at any one time there'll be 125,000 faulty black boxes needing replacement. During that time they don't know whether you're using the car or not; there'd be a revolution if the box was also an immobiliser......
How long would it take, do you think, before instructions for sabotaging your black box appeared on the 'net? Before a sub-industry sprang up selling other black boxes that jam / fry / interfere with the government black box? I'd give it about 3 minutes........... the alternative would be to set up roadside cameras with a radio installed. As you drive past, the radio link interrogates the black box and if it gets no reply or a faulty checksum, it photos you. Cost? Huge. Weaknesses? Lots. Speed cameras have been bombed, burned, rammed, spraypainted.... and what's happened? Many have been removed because of the public's reaction. They turned ordinary law-abiding people into vandals. Big Brother cameras are a step too far, I think.
I stand by that summary. So, road pricing can't be made to work reliably is one good reason why.
Also, I know many people say "if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to be afraid of" when it comes to the government tracking your every move. That's fine, as far as it goes, and if you're gullible enough to believe it, or you believe the government is just too incompetent to manage such a tracking effort. But why would you, a free citizen, want to put in place a technological solution that would enable a future, less incompetent, government to know where you are and what you do? What happens if we end up with a 21st Century Stalin?
There's precedent for that sort of reasoning. Trident replacement - it'll take 25 years to replace Trident and the decision is taken to go ahead. "AAAAARRRGGGHHH" scream the SNP and various other halfwits - "we don't need Trident now".
True. But with Iran, India, Israel, Pakistan, China, North Korea, and lots of former Soviet states ending in -stan all holding nuclear weapons, who's to say we won't need it in 25 years time? And 25 year lead times mean that you can't just decide to do it and have it ready to go next day.
So road pricing and vehicle tracking is another, potentially particularly aggressive, genie let out of its bottle with no way of ever getting it back in. Just like Trident and nuclear weapons. Just like weapons exports. Just like Income Tax (introduced as a temporary expedient to fund a war). In principle if not in degree.
Keep governments small and in their place. As servants of the people, not as their masters, which is what they believe they are these days.
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