View Full Version : Inexperienced drivers
cuddlepop
22-Jan-07, 15:22
Today my daughter found out that a friend of a friend was killed lastnight in a road crash.:~(
This young girl was only 17 and had the whole of her life to look forward too.
There was no other car involved and she was alone at the wheel of the car.
whether or not it was road conditions or inexperince is irrelevent she has died.Yet another tragic statistic of young fatalities.
What do you think the answere is?
I think they should have advanced driving offered to them so they can experience and practice on black ice conditions before they get their license.
my daughter is learning to drive at the moment. she has already put her name down with her instructor for the pass plus and also skid driving. she will be taken out to a old aerodrome to be taught how to handle a car in icy and hazzardous conditions
sorry to hear about that,but even if you do get advanced training,what happens if there is another car coming towards at you at speed and you cant stop because its icy?there are millions of situations that are possible,i may add even proffesional racing drivers make errors and thats thousand of pounds worth of licenses!!! i do agree with you but will it really help doing advanced training?
cuddlepop
22-Jan-07, 16:28
sorry to hear about that,but even if you do get advanced training,what happens if there is another car coming towards at you at speed and you cant stop because its icy?there are millions of situations that are possible,i may add even proffesional racing drivers make errors and thats thousand of pounds worth of licenses!!! i do agree with you but will it really help doing advanced training?
My own daughter has failed her driving test and will resit it soon and she has told me that it came as quiet a shock to her the lack of driving skills for city driving she had.Learning to drive on Skye has its own difficulties,such as single track,but its the volume and speed of other drivers that came as a shock to her.:eek:
Maybe island kids should sit there tests in the towns and citys and likewise there should be experience of single track driving for city folks.
My own daughter has failed her driving test and will resit it soon and she has told me that it came as quiet a shock to her the lack of driving skills for city driving she had.Learning to drive on Skye has its own difficulties,such as single track,but its the volume and speed of other drivers that came as a shock to her.:eek:
Maybe island kids should sit there tests in the towns and citys and likewise there should be experience of single track driving for city folks.
also car drivers should have a shot on a motorbike, just to learn to be more observnat. the amount of car drivers that only look 5 feet in front of them or at the back of the car in front of them is scary. being a biker you learn to look so much further ahead at at every road coming of the road you are travelling on. i think being able to ride a bike makes me a far better car driver, but thats my opinion.
danc1ngwitch
22-Jan-07, 20:12
i am sorry to hear of the loss of a young life x the experience i suppose comes with driving even then u are not in control of the other drivers:(
I think they should raise the age to 21.I think 17 is far to young and immature to be driving.I was once 17 and immature and use to drive fast and stupiditly and was one of the lucky ones to get away with it.
Or even let them drive at 17 and restrict the times they are a loud to drive during the day or evening.
I think they should raise the age to 21.I think 17 is far to young and immature to be driving.I was once 17 and immature and use to drive fast and stupiditly and was one of the lucky ones to get away with it.
Or even let them drive at 17 and restrict the times they are a loud to drive during the day or evening.
Good idea about restricted times driving for youngsters. Jan x
connieb19
22-Jan-07, 20:28
Wouldnt it be better to restrict the size of engine they are allowed to drive?
One tip my Instructor gave me was leartn to look at everybody on or near the road within 50 meters and if possible try to understand what they are doing. its a hard task but if you can grasp it it gives you such an added confidence it wont illiminate all eventualities but it helps. like emszxr says a large number of people are so fixed on 5 feet in front of then they might as well be driving alone.
cuddlepop
22-Jan-07, 21:17
Wouldnt it be better to restrict the size of engine they are allowed to drive?
That sounds a better idea Connie,at least that way they wouldn't be able to speed the way some do.
My son has been a passenger in a car that crashed and roled and another passenger in a near miss in lochness side because of his mates stupidity at overtaking on corners[evil]
My son has lost his nerve when it comes to even learning and he's 19 :eek: ,so perhapse a controlled near miss would promote due care.?
caithness lad
22-Jan-07, 21:22
that is very very sad, i would like to see the age for starting to drive raised to 21:eek:
Bill Fernie
22-Jan-07, 21:31
I don't think restricting the size of the engine will help much. An 1100cc engine can do up to 100 mph these days.
Speed Kills used to be the slogan of TV ads on the topic and that remains true. The slower you go the less likely you are to be seriously hurt if you crash.
From most of what I have read and seen myself it is failure to anticipate due to lack of experience for younger drivers. Younger drivers are likley to have faster reactions in most cases but as they have not slowed down in advance for example when approaching a bend at a set of trees in icy conditions then no amount of fast reactions will help.
Suggestions have been made over the years for a one year plate following getting your license where speed restrictions apply but they have never been adopted.
But the answer for everyone of any age is to slow down all the time, leave earlier for journeys so you do not need to rush. The police are playing their part by adding evermoe speed cameras and point to the fact that they are slwoing folk down and saving lives over each year since they brought them in with more each year seemingly keeping the numbers coming down in the UK.
Anyone can go for advanced driving - you don't need to wait to have it offered. No one offers driving lessons - you book them yourself. So maybe more fok should thing about this.
Firstly, my deapest condolences for the loss of your friend.
As a driving instructor, I just have to add to this post. It pains me to hear of yet another loss of such a young life. No matter how much a learner is taught to appreciate the dangers there isn't a lot that can be done for the many accidents that take place involving the young. As with ALL the other driving instructors in this area, and I'm sure I speak for them ALL, It breaks our hearts to hear of yet another loss.
How can we prevent such losses? Sadly and obviously we can't avoid them all, experience or not, accidents will happen. Even the very best of drivers get it wrong, such is the humanistic side of such a dangerous act as driving. However, I do agree that restriction should be in place to, at least, limit the depressing statistics further. Restrictions as to the time of day a young driver can drive could be hard on those who work nights or who are simply safe and responsible on the roads. Of the many thousands of driving lessons I have conducted during the past 13 years, I have found that the vast majority do have a sence of responsibility and upkeep it. It's the minority group of the younger drivers that cause statistics to rise. I also agree that the level of experience of a young driver is limited, I just wish we driving instructors could teach experience. I'm sure that both I and my colleagues do everything we can to pass on the importance of 'Safe driving for life', but, sadly, experience only comes when the driver is on the road on their own.
When a driver passes their driving test they are at their highest standard of expertise when opporating the machine and following proceedures. It's only when they start to gain experiance of the highway with so called 'qullified drivers' that things go bad for a while. Often when the new driver has experienced the antics of other road users do they then start to faulter in their own skills in order to blend their skills with those already on the roads. How many 'qualified drivers' do you know who can pass a driving test now? Not many at my guess. How many times do you hear people say, "I'd never pass my test again with all my bad habbits". This is where part of the problem lies. The transition period of the newly qualified driver is often the most vulnerable stage. Getting to grips with the low standards of driving on todays roads and with the humanistic changes to the new driver who no longer have to follow the rules as they did whilst learning with their instructor. I my view, it takes the average driver about 6 months to drive like those already qualified. So should we driving instructors be teaching the high standards required by the DSA in order to pass a driving test or should we be teaching the lesser grade of 'qualified skills' in order to keep our younger drivers safer in the transition period? well... we do already, I do anyway, but we can only do this to a certain extent. Unfortunatley, it's down to the individual driver in the end.
There are many ways in which the government can help reduce accidenct statistics but it takes time and money.
How about a re-test for everyone every 5 or 10 years regardless of age?
How about a restriction of vehicle egine size, starting from 1000cc (1 ltr) and only going up by 100cc (.1 ltr ) per year of accident free driving?
Restricting the age to 21 as already sugested?
A time ago, when teaching in England, I gave a free 'after service' to all those who passed with me. Their first one would be after the first 3 months, then 6 months and then a year. I found that thouse who took part maintained their skills in order to ensure they reached the standards on the 'after service'. I found that their skills were very high and none had any accidents during their first two years. Perhaps the DSA should adopt such a idea in order for young drivers to remain on the road, as a continued assesment of relavent and safe driving.?
In the end though, it's down to driving attitudes of our younger motorists.
Accidents will happen though, no matter what. With great sadness.
If only ALL drivers would take serious consideration of the consequences of their actions while driving.
I don't think restricting the size of the engine will help much. An 1100cc engine can do up to 100 mph these days.
True but the acceleration is different, which I believe is more often a cause of loosing control.
Speed Kills used to be the slogan of TV ads on the topic and that remains true. The slower you go the less likely you are to be seriously hurt if you crash.
Speed doesn't kill, it is the sudden stop at then end.
Kidding aside, inexperienced drivers in powerful and fast cars is a recipe for disaster.
jinglejangle
22-Jan-07, 21:56
True but the acceleration is different, which I believe is more often a cause of loosing control.
Speed doesn't kill, it is the sudden stop at then end.
Kidding aside, inexperienced drivers in powerful and fast cars is a recipe for disaster.
tristan i know you were kidding but that is in bad taste considering what started the thread. :(
cuddlepop
22-Jan-07, 21:57
Sketch the idea of a refresher course on their driving skills sounds good.
Say in the first three months, then six and then perhapse every few years.
The advanced driving skills should I think be compulsory.My parner had his license already when he joined the police but as far as they were concerned he couldn't and was retaught.
One think I've noticed is that he really lookes at the road and notices things I completely miss:eek: .He also anticipate things eg car parked at the side of the road,loose passengers,views them like sheep..could pop up anywhere,usually with camera round neck:lol:
Bobinovich
22-Jan-07, 22:07
How about a re-test for everyone every 5 or 10 years regardless of age?
I would not have a problem with this - it might also remove from our roads some of the older drivers whose skills have likewise deteriorated. Unneccesarily slow drivers in the middle of the lane are almost as dangerous as fast ones!
How about a restriction of vehicle egine size, starting from 1000cc (1 ltr) and only going up by 100cc (.1 ltr ) per year of accident free driving?
As has been mentioned previously, even a 1000cc car can hit high speeds - you could put a restrictor on to make (say) 60mph the maximum but some nutter would still do 60mph in a 30mph zone and kill someone.
Restricting the age to 21 as already sugested?
Naah, I prefer your other idea, namely...
A time ago, when teaching in England, I gave a free 'after service' to all those who passed with me. Their first one would be after the first 3 months, then 6 months and then a year. I found that thouse who took part maintained their skills in order to ensure they reached the standards on the 'after service'. I found that their skills were very high and none had any accidents during their first two years. Perhaps the DSA should adopt such a idea in order for young drivers to remain on the road, as a continued assesment of relavent and safe driving.?
That is a very good idea IMHO and if it were charged at usual lesson rates it would be fine. Maybe the green L plate should be mandatory (I don't think it is at the moment) and should stay in place until the year lesson is over and passed, then it would cut down on a lot of accidents.
I know many accidents with young drivers also kill young passengers (or young drivers in other cars who are being raced). This is something which may have to be addressed - maybe green L plate 'cruisers' should not be allowed to carry passengers???
tristan i know you were kidding but that is in bad taste considering what started the thread. :(
You are right, I am sorry. Read the start of the thread earlier but when I responded to Bill I linked to his post so took it out it out of context.
My apologies.
My other point, fast and powerful cars and drivers don't mix.
bobnovich; Restricting the speed of vehicles can also have a detramental effect. As mentioned before, power is important in many cases. So to have vehicles retarded means all cars would need to have restrictions.
Bill's reply is correct in many ways of course, but I consider a vehicle to be like that of a knife. Its not the knife that kills, it the mind of the person behind it. The same with driving, the mindset of the driver needs to change if things are to improve. Mindsets will not change unless stricter changes are enforced.
I've been thinking about the 'after-service' quite a lot since I've been working in Wick and I think I may offer the service again. As the service sound it will be free but to those who have had lessons with me, I'll think about this first. I may well write to the DSA and sugest this approach, perhaps if more people did this we could make some changes to the system of driver education?
You cannot teach experience and it doesn't come automatically with either age or type of vehicle.
There are a lot of assumptions being made here, the main one being that because somebody is young they must be doing something silly to have caused their accident. Either that or they were in a 'super-dooper flying machine' that they could not handle.
If those were the only causes, or even the main causes, then older drivers in small cars would never get involved in serious injury accidents.
I'm sorry that another youngster has become statistic, They are not the first, and certainly will not be the last.
I firmly believe that anybody taught to drive well, will be able to survive on Britains roads. However, if you go into any town with a Driving Test Centre you will see car after car with L plates, on the test routes, as the drivers to be are taught to pass the driving test.
If the drivers to be are TAUGHT TO DRIVE, the test should not be a problem, and this will also help as they gain valuable experience for the future.
As an ex Driving Examiner, I can assure you that all the examiner wants is for the candidate to pass. It is the candidate that passes or fails.
Advanced driving training can be taken by anybody with a licence through RoSPA or The IAM.
To all you young drivers out there - take it easy - independence is fun - but see you live to enjoy it.
jaws;
I agree with you. Must point out though that statistics via insurance companies, RAC, DSA etc etc, have proven that the majority of accidents involving deaths or serious injuries are of those involving young/inexperienced drivers, tomorrows experienced drivers. I'm not sure we're assuming that all accidents belong to this group but more is needed to reduce the appauling stats in this area. Heaven knows there's a lot of crazy antics going on out there in all age catagories.
I firmly believe that anybody taught to drive well, will be able to survive on Britains roads. However, if you go into any town with a Driving Test Centre you will see car after car with L plates, on the test routes, as the drivers to be are taught to pass the driving test.
This is the one thing I've done in all my carrer to date and that it to teach the correct skills in order to drive to suit all situations in the UK, City or otherwise. One big mistake of any driving instructor is to teah test or test route. Test routes in Wick only exist in Wick and will serve no real service anywhere else. Every driving instructor should teach ALL aspects of driving in order for their client to stay alive.
May I also agree with you on another? Examiners would love to pass all candidates. However, their job is highly responsible, as you know, and no examiner would 'knowingly', put an unsafe driver on the roads. I wish the learners would understand this too.
North Rhins
22-Jan-07, 22:53
Another loss of such a young life.
I was on ‘L’ plates when I took my police driving course. My examiner was the Inspector in charge of the police driving school. The difference between my course and a ‘civvy’ course was the fact that we were taught to drive, not just to pass a test.
The trouble is and always has been that someone passes a test and they immediately think that they can drive. Wrong.
I totally agree with JimH, an advanced course is be it ROSPA or IAM is the way to learn about roadcraft.
The other post regarding riding a motorbike is very true. You suddenly become very aware of your surroundings when you are not sat in a tin box.
Bill's reply is correct in many ways of course, but I consider a vehicle to be like that of a knife. Its not the knife that kills, it the mind of the person behind it. The same with driving, the mindset of the driver needs to change if things are to improve. Mindsets will not change unless stricter changes are enforced.
Guns don't kill people it's husbands who go home early from work that kill people.
I think there is a lot in what you say, young people love thrill seeking, they enjoy exitement and danger, they like an adranalin buz. I don't see any way to legislate against it, some kids already break every law in the book stealing cars and joyriding I don't know that giving them more laws to break will make a lot of difference, could make things worse.
Totaly agree north rhins,
Perhaps ROSPA and IAM ought to be part of a continued assesment, at least, for all drivers, it's driver education again.
I think there is a lot in what you say, young people love thrill seeking, they enjoy exitement and danger, they like an adranalin buz. I don't see any way to legislate against it, some kids already break every law in the book stealing cars and joyriding I don't know that giving them more laws to break will make a lot of difference, could make things worse.
Again, re-educating the mindset would help. But yes, as you say nothing will solve the problem in full, but something must be done to reduce the statistics . Every little help, as my mother says crying in the sea. Seriously though, we all make mistakes behind the wheel at times but how many of us think twice about the true outcome of a serious error?
North Rhins
22-Jan-07, 23:14
There were a number if countries that used to leave smashed up vehicles at the side of the road as a wakeup call. If the root cause of the problem cannot be addressed by education, then let’s show the public the consequences of inappropriate driving. Show actual footage of accidents, the aftermath and the consequences. Shock tactics, no pussyfooting around show it like it is. The scene of a major road traffic accident is a very sobering experience.
Lets not forget all those young driver who do drive well though. Most of them do and a lot of them can drive very well indeed. Like I said, accidents will happen, even to the best drivers. Take care and please drive with care. x
also car drivers should have a shot on a motorbike, just to learn to be more observnat. the amount of car drivers that only look 5 feet in front of them or at the back of the car in front of them is scary. being a biker you learn to look so much further ahead at at every road coming of the road you are travelling on. i think being able to ride a bike makes me a far better car driver, but thats my opinion.
I read this earlier and felt that it was such a shame that a young life ended so tragically and so early. My sincere condolences to your daughters friend's family and to all who knew and cared for the poor lass.
I agree that riding a motorbike teaches you so much more than you could possibly learn in a car. My early days on the road were spent on a motorbike, 70%+ of that time was spent driving through the centre of London and I also did a considerable number of long journeys. You have to take the attitude on a bike that most people can't see you or they don't really take in the fact that you're there, and vulnerable at a conscious level. Basically you need to figure on the basis that everyone around, even pedestrians are capable of killing you so you have to antipate, read the road ahead and interpret what might happen if 'she opens that car door', 'he steps out', 'the dog runs across the road', 'that football goes the wrong way' and so forth.
Such skills are not taught as part of basic driving instruction - although they are taught as part of 'advanced driving' instruction. I think many more people would still be alive if more 'advanced' techniques were taught by default.
North Rhins
22-Jan-07, 23:40
emb123, riding a motorbike in London? I take my hat off to you, a true hero. Me? no chance, at least a Kamikaze pilot got a drink before he took off.
emb123, riding a motorbike in London? I take my hat off to you, a true hero. Me? no chance, at least a Kamikaze pilot got a drink before he took off.
It's not so bad, but you cannot lose concentration even for a second. I was very nervous at first but it was something of a baptism of fire.
I was knocked off twice - first time I was two thirds of the way round a roundabout in Southgate turning right and a car pulled into me - I was broadside to him - how he 'didn't see me' I just don't know. Second time I was sitting stationary at a roundabout and Jaguar came up and booted me up the rear end sending me flying. Fortunately the driver of the artic coming round the roundabout towards me saw it all - and stopped!
Didn't do my right knee any favours though and it still plays up now in bad weather - occasionally it buckles under me completely.
You obviously hadn't been taught the correct method of driving, or riding.
"Make sure they know you are coming then drive straight at them. That way they will make sure they get out of your way!"
The correct term for that method of driving is called, "Make them have it!" and is essential in order to exist in any city. [lol]
North Rhins
23-Jan-07, 00:29
To drive with the merest hint of courtesy in London is immediately taken as a sign of weakness and it’s god help you. Dog eat dog.
George Brims
23-Jan-07, 02:35
Various states in the USA, including California where I live, introduced rules for newly qualified young drivers a few years ago and cut mortality rates quite a bit. Restrictions included a night-time curfew, and the younger driver not being allowed to drive with other young people in the car unless an adult (21+) was also present. That cut out a lot of the "showing off for your mates and driving too fast for your skills" kind of accident. I believe so many states have shown these restrictions to be effective that the federal highway people are trying to make it nationwide.
As far as riding a motorcycle, I have decided recently I just do not like those things at all. In the last 18 months I have seen 5 dead motorcyclists on various roads and freeways. Recently published statistics here show that you are, mile for mile, 32 times more likely to die riding a motorcycle than driving a car. Some of those were the fault of other drivers, some of the motorcyclist. Fault is kind of irrelevant when you're dead; the problem is your utter vulnerability when the accident happens.
I did a police driving course which was very good, especially on awareness. You need to drive with your eyes to the front, and the sides, and the back. road markings and signposts can make you aware of a need to slow down in the distance and plan ahead as you drive. this course was so helpful and taught me a great deal even after driving for years all over Britain.
cuddlepop
23-Jan-07, 10:12
Various states in the USA, including California where I live, introduced rules for newly qualified young drivers a few years ago and cut mortality rates quite a bit. Restrictions included a night-time curfew, and the younger driver not being allowed to drive with other young people in the car unless an adult (21+) was also present. That cut out a lot of the "showing off for your mates and driving too fast for your skills" kind of accident. I believe so many states have shown these restrictions to be effective that the federal highway people are trying to make it nationwide.
thosethe accident happens.
George this looks like an excellent idea.I know the Scottish Executive are looking at the road fatalities in the north east of Scotland,i wonder if they'll be looking at this excellent practice in the States.
Wait a minute its not Scandanavian so we'll not adopt it:eek: as HC seems to want us to do as they do......apart from the drinking as its worse.
The assumption seems to be that all young drivers will be foolish with speed, from experience this is not the case - I see many young drivers driving sensibly and many older drivers 30+ driving with a lot less care. To pass a law that only allows a young driver to carry young passengers if accompanied by someone over 21 is ludicrous IMO. We are living in an era where a couple may be 18 & 19 and have 2 children, yet can't travel anywhere by car without dragging along a 21 year old friend!!
I think the standards of driving these days are pretty shocking, yes some young drivers drive fast, but most of the crazy overtaking manouvers I see are done by people over 30 that think because they have a powerful car and 'years of experience' that its ok to scare the daylights out of the person in the oncoming car. :roll:
Lolabelle
23-Jan-07, 10:37
Various states in the USA, including California where I live, introduced rules for newly qualified young drivers a few years ago and cut mortality rates quite a bit. Restrictions included a night-time curfew, and the younger driver not being allowed to drive with other young people in the car unless an adult (21+) was also present. That cut out a lot of the "showing off for your mates and driving too fast for your skills" kind of accident. I believe so many states have shown these restrictions to be effective that the federal highway people are trying to make it nationwide.
As far as riding a motorcycle, I have decided recently I just do not like those things at all. In the last 18 months I have seen 5 dead motorcyclists on various roads and freeways. Recently published statistics here show that you are, mile for mile, 32 times more likely to die riding a motorcycle than driving a car. Some of those were the fault of other drivers, some of the motorcyclist. Fault is kind of irrelevant when you're dead; the problem is your utter vulnerability when the accident happens.
We have something very similar in Australia. At the moment new drivers are put on to a Probationary licence and have to display red "P" plates, with speed restrictions and then for the next 2 years they have green "P" plates with no alcohol and slightly higher speeds. Now they are going to have P platers no night driving and no passengers. As much as I imagine they won't like it much, they should atleast be around to grumble.
The assumption seems to be that all young drivers will be foolish with speed, from experience this is not the case - I see many young drivers driving sensibly and many older drivers 30+ driving with a lot less care. To pass a law that only allows a young driver to carry young passengers if accompanied by someone over 21 is ludicrous IMO. We are living in an era where a couple may be 18 & 19 and have 2 children, yet can't travel anywhere by car without dragging along a 21 year old friend!!
I think the standards of driving these days are pretty shocking, yes some young drivers drive fast, but most of the crazy overtaking manouvers I see are done by people over 30 that think because they have a powerful car and 'years of experience' that its ok to scare the daylights out of the person in the oncoming car. :roll:
Very true, maybe if we could enforce the laws we already have it might be time to think about passing new ones, maybe it wouldn't be neccessary.
I was reading a while back about a spate of accidents caused by middle aged men going through a mid life crisis buying themselves powerful motorbikes. I wonder if they considered making it illegal for anyone over the age of 45 to ride a bike without a teenager on the pillion.
The Labour government's plans to tame and subdue the youth of Britain with the ASBO well and truly backfired, kids are committing crimes just so they can get one, you don't have any street cred if you don't have an ASBO these days.
There were a lot of fatalities with horse powered transport before cars were ever invented, the most dangerous sports in Britain today are equine sports. Is the answer just to make riding a horse illegal? Then wait a while and look to see what is top of the list next and legislate against that too. Before long it will be easier for the government to just give us a list of things we can do it will be shorter than the list of things which are illegal.
I would just like to add that its not only the young drivers that cause accidents, or a necessarily inexperienced! on a few occasions i have been in a car driving along a road when an elderly man/woman drives out of there driveway and keeps going without looking in there mirrors while reversing and nearly causes an accident. Also while coming out of parking spaces in the co-op dont look behind to see if any cars are there and when straight into the back of them. Also on motorways while changing lanes to overtake lorries dont indicate or look in there mirrors and cause accident .Granted young people do this also but so do older so called "experienced drivers"
cuddlepop
23-Jan-07, 15:19
I would just like to add that its not only the young drivers that cause accidents, or a necessarily inexperienced! on a few occasions i have been in a car driving along a road when an elderly man/woman drives out of there driveway and keeps going without looking in there mirrors while reversing and nearly causes an accident. Also while coming out of parking spaces in the co-op dont look behind to see if any cars are there and when straight into the back of them. Also on motorways while changing lanes to overtake lorries dont indicate or look in there mirrors and cause accident .Granted young people do this also but so do older so called "experienced drivers"
These are all very valid points buts its the lack of experience in horrendous driving conditions that appears to have cost this young girls life.:~(
We have something very similar in Australia. At the moment new drivers are put on to a Probationary licence and have to display red "P" plates, with speed restrictions and then for the next 2 years they have green "P" plates with no alcohol and slightly higher speeds. Now they are going to have P platers no night driving and no passengers. As much as I imagine they won't like it much, they should atleast be around to grumble.
I applaud the Australian idea about new drivers, just two little things I would add.......Ban the use of mobile phones completely whilst driving, and a TOTAL drink driving ban, one drink DO NOT drive.
cuddlepop
23-Jan-07, 15:34
I applaud the Australian idea about new drivers, just two little things I would add.......Ban the use of mobile phones completely whilst driving, and a TOTAL drink driving ban, one drink DO NOT drive.
I agree with everything you say Golach,and I'm sure I'm not alone.
I would just like to add that its not only the young drivers that cause accidents, or a necessarily inexperienced! on a few occasions i have been in a car driving along a road when an elderly man/woman drives out of there driveway and keeps going without looking in there mirrors while reversing and nearly causes an accident. Also while coming out of parking spaces in the co-op dont look behind to see if any cars are there and when straight into the back of them. Also on motorways while changing lanes to overtake lorries dont indicate or look in there mirrors and cause accident .Granted young people do this also but so do older so called "experienced drivers"
Never had an accident in their lives but seen thousands in their rearview mirrors.
In N.Ireland you have to display an R plate on your car for the first year after passing your test. You are restricted to 45mph for the first year. I think the R plate is good as it at least lets other drivers know you may not have the same driving experience as them.
When a driver passes their driving test they are at their highest standard of expertise when opporating the machine and following proceedures. It's only when they start to gain experiance of the highway with so called 'qullified drivers' that things go bad for a while. Often when the new driver has experienced the antics of other road users do they then start to faulter in their own skills in order to blend their skills with those already on the roads. How many 'qualified drivers' do you know who can pass a driving test now? Not many at my guess. How many times do you hear people say, "I'd never pass my test again with all my bad habbits". This is where part of the problem lies. The transition period of the newly qualified driver is often the most vulnerable stage. Getting to grips with the low standards of driving on todays roads and with the humanistic changes to the new driver who no longer have to follow the rules as they did whilst learning with their instructor. I my view, it takes the average driver about 6 months to drive like those already qualified.
Absolute rubbish, to pass your test surely you just have to be at the minimum standard to pass, then the more experiance you have the better you will get. Passing your test and being a good driver are different things, most people who have just passed are not the best. The driving test is crap too, what does it teach you, just the basics! Especially up here in caithness, no dual carraigeway, no motorway, no huge roundabouts, no real volume of traffic. Oh and since i mentioned roundabouts, when are people in wick going to figure out how to work the things![evil]
I applaud the Australian idea about new drivers, just two little things I would add.......Ban the use of mobile phones completely whilst driving, and a TOTAL drink driving ban, one drink DO NOT drive.
No no golach Five and drive the rule.
George Brims
23-Jan-07, 21:00
The assumption seems to be that all young drivers will be foolish with speed, from experience this is not the case - I see many young drivers driving sensibly and many older drivers 30+ driving with a lot less care. To pass a law that only allows a young driver to carry young passengers if accompanied by someone over 21 is ludicrous IMO. We are living in an era where a couple may be 18 & 19 and have 2 children, yet can't travel anywhere by car without dragging along a 21 year old friend!!
I think the standards of driving these days are pretty shocking, yes some young drivers drive fast, but most of the crazy overtaking manouvers I see are done by people over 30 that think because they have a powerful car and 'years of experience' that its ok to scare the daylights out of the person in the oncoming car. :roll:
Well the whole topic of this thread is how to keep the younger drivers alive until they can gain some experience.
How to stop the arrogant middle-aged driver from causing accidents is another issue entirely.
One poster mentioned young drivers being at the peak of their abilities - but this is not true in all respects. When the Ford dealership in Thurso celebrated their 50th anniversary they had a show of various Ford-powered racing cars, old Ford road cars etc. Part of that show was a mock-up car that you sat in and looked at a set of blinking lights. When the lights stopped blinking you had to take your foot offf the accelerator pedal and hit the brake. All the local young hot-shots were keen to have a go, but the people who posted all the best times were not the 19 year old boy racers, but the 40 to 45 year old "geezers". As someone who was about to get his licence the following year that stuck in my mind.
Being a learner driver myself im 22 now and was never really interested at the age of 17 but now with 2 kids i feel i need to b able to drive. I was learning with an instructor in Wick who i think didnt do much for my confidence. I then took an intensive course in Inverness and i love driving in the city far btr than Wick, I feel that the city people have more respect for learners and have patience for them (eg if you stall the car they dont blast the horn and swear at you like they do in Wick) I failed my test but it was nerves that got me. but im still learning. A few friends my age have died in car accidents and it has put me off driving but it shouldnt. I realise i will be inexperienced in the snow and icy weather but taking my time and watching the roads should help. What bugs me more is when taxi drivers are right up the back of your car and tail you until they need to turn off. They should add an extra few mins to the journey after all its on a meter price. Please all Wickers give learners a break they pay to b on the road like everyone else.
Yes i do agree with refresher courses and doing pass plus
Any one got ny tips on how to overcome nerves on your test day.
Absolute rubbish, to pass your test surely you just have to be at the minimum standard to pass, then the more experiance you have the better you will get. Passing your test and being a good driver are different things, most people who have just passed are not the best. The driving test is crap too, what does it teach you, just the basics! Especially up here in caithness, no dual carraigeway, no motorway, no huge roundabouts, no real volume of traffic. Oh and since i mentioned roundabouts, when are people in wick going to figure out how to work the things![evil]
Must say I disagree with much of what you've said. When you pass your test you do have a high standard of skills. What you lack is obviously experience, which takes time to build up. And in the meantime you start to pick up bad habits. How many of us still keeps our hands at the 10 to 2 position, and if we were to resit the driving test now - with no refresher lessons - how many would actually pass it again?
Sadly many take driving for granted and fail to appreciate what a dangerous weapon a car can be, if it's not driven responsibly. :~(
I also knew of a lad who passed his test at 17 and the very same day killed himself in a terrible accident, all due to his lack of experience. Sadly these accidents seem to happen all too frequently.
Absolute rubbish, to pass your test surely you just have to be at the minimum standard to pass, then the more experiance you have the better you will get. Passing your test and being a good driver are different things, most people who have just passed are not the best. The driving test is crap too, what does it teach you, just the basics! Especially up here in caithness, no dual carraigeway, no motorway, no huge roundabouts, no real volume of traffic. Oh and since i mentioned roundabouts, when are people in wick going to figure out how to work the things![evil]
What makes you think the driving test is the minimum standard when over 87% of 'qualified drivers' couldn't pass it without getting rid of bad habbits first.?
Passing you test and being a good driver are not different things, they are one of the same. You have to be good to pass it! SO how good are those who can't?
The experience achieved after passing the test is that of picking up bad habbits in order to stay safe while surrounded by bad drivers.
Most people who have just passed a driving test are at their best until habbits start occuring and then they start driving as they like or as they think is right, not as they were taught.
The Driving test, by-enlarge is not c**p and it doesn't teach you anything it's an assesment of driving skill and ability, not the course it self. If people drive as they were taught then perhaps the roads would be far safer than they are now.....if people don't know how to negociate roundabouts then perhaps going back to their driving instructor or re-reading the highway code would answer the problems there. There isn't a driving instructor in Caithness that doesn't or hasn't taught the art of driving safely or how to follow simple proceedure at roundabouts, your comment, sadly, highlights my point. Must point out though and stress that your thoughts are quite widespread and with the greatest of respect is not quite right.
A point to add, Who teaches the Pass Pluss and why? Shouldn't the contents of the pass pluss be taught as part of the routine of learning to drive, as the pass pluss is taught by the driving instructors anyway and there is no pass or fail to it? Passing a driving test is like the old 'GCSE' - 'IAM's and 'ROSPA's are the equivalent of the old 'O' levels - the standards of driving skills the driving instructor has to reach is the DEGREE and even they get it wrong now and again, there isn't a driver who doesn't make mistakes.
This is and always will be a very sensitive subject, one that will never be cured in full because the art of driving involves humans who make mistakes. For as long as we are alowed the 'freedom' of the open roads bad driving will always exist.
One of my bestest drivers !!! Safe as houses!! ;)
How is the PassPlus taught up here as part of it is dual carriageways and on motorways. ? Our nearest being 100 miles away and further for motorways.
What makes you think the driving test is the minimum standard when over 87% of 'qualified drivers' couldn't pass it without getting rid of bad habbits first.?
The experience achieved after passing the test is that of picking up bad habbits in order to stay safe while surrounded by bad drivers.
Most people who have just passed a driving test are at their best until habbits start occuring and then they start driving as they like or as they think is right, not as they were taught.
The Driving test, by-enlarge is not c**p and it doesn't teach you anything it's an assesment of driving skill and ability, not the course it self. If people drive as they were taught then perhaps the roads would be far safer than they are now.....if people don't know how to negociate roundabouts then perhaps going back to their driving instructor or re-reading the highway code would answer the problems there. There isn't a driving instructor in Caithness that doesn't or hasn't taught the art of driving safely or how to follow simple proceedure at roundabouts, your comment, sadly, highlights my point. Must point out though and stress that your thoughts are quite widespread and with the greatest of respect is not quite right.
Glad to hear someone talking sense on this thread!
Couldn't agree with you more!! :D
Whitewater
24-Jan-07, 13:12
My sympathy goes to the family of the young girl who lost her life in such a tragic manner. No matter what we all think about young or old drivers, experienced or otherwise, a death like this always serves to remind us of the dangers on our roads today.
I have to agree 'Lolabell' and the Australian system, it was introduced in the late 1960s when I spent some time in the country. It was introduced because so many young drivers were killing themselves in old cars with massive V8 and V12 engines. They could pick these old cars up for a few dollars, they were more than capable of reaching 100mph + in a few seconds. The youngsters used to buy them and on occasions race them. Unfortunately, although the cars were powerful they were not always in the best of condition regarding brakes etc. The Australian government was forced to introduce the "P" plate system and it worked, it greatly reduced the number of young deaths. At the same time they also introduced the compulsory wearing of seat belts, which was only introduced in Britain recently (don't remember the date) There is absolutely no reason a similar system would not work here, but we always seem to miles behind when it comes to introducing common sense safety systems.
I don't think young drivers are any worse now then they were in my young days. Youngsters will always push the limits, it's part of growing up and becoming a man or woman. It is up to us as responsible citizens to try and
force the government to introduce sensible safety systems which will protect our youngsters from themselves until such time as they are fit and become "Experienced", and this does not happen overnight. I also know many older drivers who are not "Experienced"
When I go out driving now I'm always wary of the drivers that drive too close behind, and then suddenly decide to overtake several cars in a row, who all happen to be driving at the speed limit.
We will never be able to stop accidents happening. There are too many unaccountable reasons i.e. punctures, brake failure, steering malfunction engine malfunctions, etc. etc. But we must eliminante as many of the known causes as we can, otherwise we are failing in our responsibilities to our fellow citizens.
Today my daughter found out that a friend of a friend was killed lastnight in a road crash.:~(
This young girl was only 17 and had the whole of her life to look forward too.
There was no other car involved and she was alone at the wheel of the car.
whether or not it was road conditions or inexperince is irrelevent she has died.Yet another tragic statistic of young fatalities.
What do you think the answere is?
I think they should have advanced driving offered to them so they can experience and practice on black ice conditions before they get their license.
If you ask what the answer is (with suggestions such as advanced driving and experience)........... then you are kind of prescribing what the cause was, surely?
I don't know if it is more noticible in small towns, or whether fatal crashes do occur more often with young and inexperienced drivers at the wheel in those communities, but there certainly seems to be a lot of them. Maybe there are more open roads for young drivers to reach dangerous speeds than in built-up areas?
How do you cut down the number of young fatalities on the roads? No idea!
If you ask what the answer is (with suggestions such as advanced driving and experience)........... then you are kind of prescribing what the cause was, surely?
I don't know if it is more noticible in small towns, or whether fatal crashes do occur more often with young and inexperienced drivers at the wheel in those communities, but there certainly seems to be a lot of them. Maybe there are more open roads for young drivers to reach dangerous speeds than in built-up areas?
How do you cut down the number of young fatalities on the roads? No idea!
I remember when they made crash helmets compulsory. So many of us took to the road to protest against it they had the army standing by with armoured cars just in case. Just about all of us wore helmets anyway, I did, all my mates did but just occasionally there would be a hot summers day when you could shed the leather and take to the road in t-shirt and jeans and feel the wind in your face and the freedom in your veins and to us that was what the government was legislating away from us.
I never forgave them.
I remember when they made crash helmets compulsory. So many of us took to the road to protest against it they had the army standing by with armoured cars just in case. Just about all of us wore helmets anyway, I did, all my mates did but just occasionally there would be a hot summers day when you could shed the leather and take to the road in t-shirt and jeans and feel the wind in your face and the freedom in your veins and to us that was what the government was legislating away from us.
I never forgave them.
Wow Fred, your little rebel........you cannot blame that on the Zionists, Bush or Blair, I think that was a Tory government that introduced that, but no doubt you will correct us all
Wow Fred, your little rebel........you cannot blame that on the Zionists, Bush or Blair, I think that was a Tory government that introduced that, but no doubt you will correct us all
You didn't think I was a Tory because I criticise Blair did you?
Why do so many people on this forum have to try and explain away truth by saying "well he would say that he's a...". Did it never enter your head that I might criticise Zionists, Bush and Blair for their crimes against humanity not for which party they represent?
You didn't think I was a Tory because I criticise Blair did you?
Where did I say you were a Tory? I only mentioned the Tory Party as I think they introduced the compulsory wearing of helmets, but I could be proved wrong [lol]
Where did I say you were a Tory? I only mentioned the Tory Party as I think they introduced the compulsory wearing of helmets, but I could be proved wrong [lol]
And your point is?
I don't know if it is more noticible in small towns, or whether fatal crashes do occur more often with young and inexperienced drivers at the wheel in those communities, but there certainly seems to be a lot of them. Maybe there are more open roads for young drivers to reach dangerous speeds than in built-up areas?
How do you cut down the number of young fatalities on the roads? No idea!
wish i knew 2 would still have a few mates of mine!
highlander2222
25-Jan-07, 23:22
How is the PassPlus taught up here as part of it is dual carriageways and on motorways. ? Our nearest being 100 miles away and further for motorways.
On Pass plus the DRIVERS are taken down to INVERNESS to do it Thy drive down to inverness around the cITY then drive back
i drove to inverness and back yesterday and the worst driving i seen was from a woman in her fifties. she was trying to overtake me on the dornoch bridge with oncoming traffic. then she over took 3 cars on the tain by-pass whilst coming up to some road works when the traffic lights were red. and all that silly overtaking got her no faster to her destination as i came up behind her on the dual heading over the kessock bridge into inverness.
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.