Farage oats

[secrets in symmetry]

Did he make a critical mistake by not standing himself? Would he have won it?

[squidge]

I hope not but just in case im glad he didnt.

[billmoseley]

is he related to porridge oats? :lol:

[secrets in symmetry]

is he related to porridge oats? :lol:Yes, and he's just as thick and stodgy. :cool:

[M Swanson]

Can't agree with that one SiS. Now if we were talking about Johnny Jags Prescott, I could go along with that. :lol:

[secrets in symmetry]

The question in this thread is deadly serious.

I think Nige might have won Eastleigh if he'd been the UKIP candidate. It's the best chance he's had so far, and he may never get a better one.

Has he blown it?

[Flynn]

The question in this thread is deadly serious.

I think Nige might have won Eastleigh if he'd been the UKIP candidate. It's the best chance he's had so far, and he may never get a better one.

Has he blown it?


He doesn't want to stand as an MP. He's an MEP, he's too busy milking the Brussels cow and actively supporting extreme far-right groups in other European countries (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/27/ukip-far-right).

[M Swanson]

So, it's all right for us to be governed from Brussels, by the far left, but democracy should be denied other legal political parties, who challenge it? Yes, that'd be about right, Flynn in your authoritarian State. As Nigel said to the EU Parliament, "Oh! I know democracy doesn't mean much to you lot ...... " He was right, imo. Anyway, this gentlemen explains Nigel's stance much better than I could:-

'Democracy is the will of the people, not the will of those who "know best" for the people. The moment that only those parties who fit a prescribed, allowable "norm" becomes the rule, there is no democracy. If the EU is democratic, then it must acknowledge the will of all its citizens, not just those who subscribe to its elitist, corporist agenda.
There should be no preconception of what it means to be "European". To demand acquiescence to the elite's self serving diktats is autocracy. UKIP's stance is consistent with freedom and liberty. All ideologies, no matter how personally obnoxious, have to be accepted in order to maintain a real, functioning democracy. To censor is to deny freedom.'

[Flynn]

Nigel Farage's UK Independence party has told its MEPs not to oppose a package that would fund some of Europe's most extreme parties. The Alliance of European National Movements, a grouping of far-right MEPs, is looking to get £340,000 from the European commission, with a similar amount for a possible thinktank.

The alliance includes Nick Griffin's British National party, Hungary's neo-fascist Jobbik party, Bulgaria's far-right National Democratic party and the Front National in France.

A petition among MEPs that could halt the funding has attracted broad support, yet it has emerged that Ukip has instructed its MEPs not to support it. Godfrey Bloom, once ejected from the European parliament after directing a Nazi slogan at a German colleague, wrote to his fellow Ukip MEPs saying: "We consider that this proposal is both dangerous and undemocratic."


We learned the lesson of such politics in the '30s and '40s. That M Swanson is outraged that the extreme far-right should not be supported is no surprise, and exposes the ugly fascist underbelly of UKIP and their supporters. As I said elsewhere, UKIP are a middle-class BNP.

[M Swanson]

And more of the same old nonsense from you, Flynn. Show me anywhere on the Org where I have ever stated that I support any far rightwing party? Why would I, when I don't! You can twist and turn to fit your agenda anytime you like. I know the tactics, backwards. More desperation from you, but a little advice. This mantra, so favoured by the far left has run its' course and people are no longer being duped into believing much of the utter rubbish, you and your ilk spout. It worked so well once, but it needs something a little fresher to put on the table in the way of propaganda. The opinion I quoted is valid and I agree with it. But then again, I'm a great believer in democracy. That's where we part company!

BTW. Where do you come on the political compass, Flynn? I don't think you've ever said.

[Flynn]

You're UKIP supporter. UKIP are a far-right party.

[M Swanson]

Rubbish! I've never voted for UKIP, or ever said I have. What I did say, is I rate Nigel Farage. They're not the same thing, but don't have to be in you authoritarian world do they? UKIP are not a far-right party, imo, but they are most certainly democratic.

Political compass, Flynn?

[secrets in symmetry]

He doesn't want to stand as an MP. He's an MEP, he's too busy milking the Brussels cow and actively supporting extreme far-right groups in other European countries (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/27/ukip-far-right).He tried hard to get elected to Westminster in the 2010 general election.


As I said elsewhere, UKIP are a middle-class BNP.That's a rather good description of UKIP. :cool:

[M Swanson]

:lol: It's all turning out as you hoped it would when you raised the thread SiS, isn't it? [lol]

[secrets in symmetry]

I think it would have been in his (and his party's) interest if he'd stood. I do think he may have missed his best opportunity to get an MP at Westminster. It was undoubtedly his best opportunity so far - and I think he blew it....

[secrets in symmetry]

Nigel Porage could surely have stood for UKIP in the by-election for David Miliband's old seat in South Shields. Has he blown it yet again?

[ducati]

I don't know whether he has 'blown it' but it seems to demonstrate there is an appitite for right wing politics. Far from reacting to the coalition's policies by surging left, the voters appear to be indicating an impatience to get on with it.

[PantsMAN]

Let's just all try to keep this poison out of Scotland as much as possible.

I like to think we are reasonably tolerant and accepting up here. (Apart from right-wing hate-mongers that is :confused )

[ducati]

Let's just all try to keep this poison out of Scotland as much as possible.

I like to think we are reasonably tolerant and accepting up here. (Apart from right-wing hate-mongers that is :confused )

Really? My experience is they (the Scots) don't much like each other, never mind anyone else. [lol]

[shazzap]

I'll be voting UKIP. Sick of all the others.

[PantsMAN]

Really? My experience is they (the Scots) don't much like each other, never mind anyone else. [lol]

Does your Scottish blood help with that?

[ducati]

Does your Scottish blood help with that?

Why I don't know. Is it important?

[PantsMAN]

Why I don't know. Is it important?

Well you're the one making the negative comments about us.

[ducati]

Well you're the one making the negative comments about us.

Not really. Just debating your assertion, and letting you know your rose tinted glasses need cleaning. :eek: If you want examples you only need to look at the desperation shown by the SNP Gov. in legislating that Catholics and Protestants should get on or they'll go to gaol.

[Flynn]

I'll be voting UKIP. Sick of all the others.


Here's what you're voting for:

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q672/Forumstufftoo/EchoStuff/UKIP1_zps7ab88819.jpg

Here's another:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-nazi-storm-candidate-mocks-1864749

Here's another UKIP candidate:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-22349676

[secrets in symmetry]

Here's what you're voting for:

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q672/Forumstufftoo/EchoStuff/UKIP1_zps7ab88819.jpg

Here's another:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-nazi-storm-candidate-mocks-1864749

Here's another UKIP candidate:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-22349676
Reposting to turn the links into links.

Potential voters for Porage's party should see them.

[PantsMAN]

Not really. Just debating your assertion, and letting you know your rose tinted glasses need cleaning. :eek: If you want examples you only need to look at the desperation shown by the SNP Gov. in legislating that Catholics and Protestants should get on or they'll go to gaol.

Surely that's a bit like telling children they must get on or they'll be sent to the headmaster. Is it not the case that this particular bit of legislation is designed to defuse conflict? It's efficacy will be judged in the fullness of time.

I see that you feel we don't get on with each other and if that's your perception - fair enough.

However, my assertion was in response to the previous posts about the increasing right-wing flavour of 'British' politics and the alleged desire for stricted immigration policies and the possible introduction of some kind of repatriation policy. Plus the 'British' politicians desire to sever ties with Europe. I still believe that we are more tolerant and accepting up here (apart from tolerating other natives [smirk])

[ducati]

Surely that's a bit like telling children they must get on or they'll be sent to the headmaster. Is it not the case that this particular bit of legislation is designed to defuse conflict? It's efficacy will be judged in the fullness of time.

I see that you feel we don't get on with each other and if that's your perception - fair enough.

However, my assertion was in response to the previous posts about the increasing right-wing flavour of 'British' politics and the alleged desire for stricted immigration policies and the possible introduction of some kind of repatriation policy. Plus the 'British' politicians desire to sever ties with Europe. I still believe that we are more tolerant and accepting up here (apart from tolerating other natives [smirk])

I didn't mention any of the above apart from the right wing bit. If you watch the vox pops asking people about immigration, the ones wanting a hard line don't appear to me to be right wing types. (commin' over 'ere taking our jobs, kind of thing).

[PantsMAN]

I didn't mention any of the above apart from the right wing bit. SNIP
to be right wing types. (commin' over 'ere taking our jobs, kind of thing).

Interesting turn of phrase - please define 'right wing types'.

Just so we can all spot them in the street .

[ducati]

Interesting turn of phrase - please define 'right wing types'.

Just so we can all spot them in the street .

Surrey housewife?

[PantsMAN]

Surrey housewife?

Wouldn't know how to spot one of them, distinctive are they?

[ducati]

Wouldn't know how to spot one of them, distinctive are they?

Like an ordinary housewife but with more money.

[Flynn]

Oh dear, another UKIP bigot bites the dust:

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/10415621.New_UKIP_councillor_facing_the_sack_for_r acist_rants_online/

[ducati]

They're all like that. Just some are better at keeping their gobs shut. In the end, the voters that were protesting will go back to the Conservatives and we will all live happily ever after.

[secrets in symmetry]

They're all like that. Just some are better at keeping their gobs shut. In the end, the voters that were protesting will go back to the Conservatives and we will all live happily ever after.You're probably right about the protest voters going home, but the electoral success of UnKowns In Porage has prompted the nasty wing of the Tory Party to wave its world cup willies loudly in public for the first time since they tried to bring down John Major - they've made more noise in the last week than they made in the last decade.

Going off on a slight tangent (because the man is a waver)....

I discovered today that Michael Gove is Scottish.

[PantsMAN]

I discovered today that Michael Gove is Scottish.


Ah, the joys of a parochial mind...

Well done, try to keep up eh? :lol:

[secrets in symmetry]

Surrey housewife?My old friend Jackie Bissell lives in Surrey, and she's a housewife - at least in some sense - but she takes Tory iconoclasm to levels never before seen in that County! :cool:

[Flynn]

In the words of the immortal Freddie Mercury, "And another one bites the dust…"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eric-kitson-resigns-after-12-days-as-ukip-county-councillor-over-offensive-antimuslim-postings-on-facebook-page-8616863.html

One thing I will say for UKIP, they're going to give us all a right good laugh for the next couple of years. :lol:

[secrets in symmetry]

In the words of the immortal Freddie Mercury, "And another one bites the dust…"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eric-kitson-resigns-after-12-days-as-ukip-county-councillor-over-offensive-antimuslim-postings-on-facebook-page-8616863.html

One thing I will say for UKIP, they're going to give us all a right good laugh for the next couple of years. :lol:At this rate, there won't be any Porage Party councillors left by the time they're up for re-election! :cool:

As you suggested previously, the Porage Party is a BNP for the middle classes. One or two of the Porage supporters on this forum exemplify that hypothesis rather well....

We shouldn't forget there is also working class Porage, just like there are working class Tory nasties.

[Rheghead]

In the words of the immortal Freddie Mercury, "And another one bites the dust…"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eric-kitson-resigns-after-12-days-as-ukip-county-councillor-over-offensive-antimuslim-postings-on-facebook-page-8616863.html

One thing I will say for UKIP, they're going to give us all a right good laugh for the next couple of years. :lol:

It seems to back up the Cameron accusation that they are all closet racists.

[Flynn]

This one was last year:

http://hurryupharry.org/2012/05/31/ukip-councillor-resigns-for-saying-jewish-race-is-endemically-racist/

[Phill]

Seems Faragemania was rocking Edinburgh today:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2325679/Nigel-Farage-bundled-police-van-barricaded-inside-pub-going-promote-Scottish-election-candidate.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[secrets in symmetry]

Seems Faragemania was rocking Edinburgh today:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2325679/Nigel-Farage-bundled-police-van-barricaded-inside-pub-going-promote-Scottish-election-candidate.html?ito=feeds-newsxmlLol!

Cracking article by the Fail. It ends with


Mr Farage was accused of being a ‘racist’ and likened to BNP leader Nick Griffin by the angry mob. The politician defended his policies, before peace was briefly restored and a press conference was held with journalists.

But 15 minutes later, the anti-racism activists started chanting again and – with no apparent sense of irony - shouted at Mr Farage to ‘go home’.

A bar manager ordered protesters, journalists and ‘you too Mr Farage’ to leave the pub.

But the UKIP leader was surrounded by campaigners on the street outside, with chants including: 'UKIP scum off our streets.'
The headline could have been

Racist scum chant "Racist Scum!" at racist scum!

I love the bit about irony. :cool:

How does one distinguish secessionist racist scum from unionist racist scum?

[macadamia]

Nigel Farage appears to be an elected MEP and leader of a legal political party which has some following in parts of the UK

Edinburgh used to be known as the Athens of the North.

Today we learnt the Pictish (I won't say Scottish, because I know lots of Scots, who are intelligent and reasonable people) for "democracy".

It is a contorted, thuggish, bull-necked face almost straining with pure visceral hatred yelling "Scum! Scum! Scum!"

Thank you, Picts, for today's contribution to the "No!" vote next year.

[secrets in symmetry]

I doubt many of them were (descended from) Picts.

Indigenous Edinburgh folk are as likely descended from the original Scots as from the Picts, but perhaps most likely from neither.

[macadamia]

Sorry, Picts. I stand well corrected. I'm sure you were all more civilised than the barking underclass responsible for taking democracy to new heights today, wherever they came from . But, whoever you were, thanks for showing the rest of the UK how to practice democracy.

[secrets in symmetry]

Sadly, I know of someone involved in this yobbery - he's American!

[Aaldtimer]

SiS..."I doubt many of them were (descended from) Picts.

Indigenous Edinburgh folk are as likely descended from the original Scots as from the Picts,"...

The Picts were here long before the Scotti!

[squidge]

Im glad he was sent home with a flea in his ear. He got his chance to have his say, he had his meeting, then he faced a noisy protest. I am sorry if passers by were alarmed, I had some friends who were booked in for food and had to leave.But no one was hurt, they didnt see any violence either. Farage is the pseudo respectable face of the far right and It should be shown the door .... He was and loudly.

[Flynn]

Farage is the pseudo respectable face of the far right and It should be shown the door .... He was and loudly.


This shown in the English county council elections. Everywhere UKIP made gains saw a complete collapse of whatever BNP vote had been there previously.

There's also this: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/04/04/edls-tommy-robinson-endorses-ukip-_n_3014019.html

[M Swanson]

The BNP collapsed long before the by-elections Flynn. It wouldn't surprise me if the result of yesterday's hooliganism was an increase in UKIP membership. The sad thing, is that the English commentators I've read, thus far, see such moronic behaviour as a Scots trait now, instead of apportioning blame for the display of thuggish, anti-democratic bullying to the tiny minority of rent-a-mob. I'm sure they were not applauded by the vast majority of decent Scots. Another defeat for the usual Commies, Trots and anarchists, then.

[John Little]

Commies, Trots and anarchists! Now there's a blast from the past! Can't remember their last tour. And Rentamob staged the gig! This is really retro stuff.

[Flynn]

I am getting so sick and tired of not being able to rep anyone until I've 'spread it around a bit'.

Consider yourself 'repped' for that last post John Little.

[secrets in symmetry]

Commies, Trots and anarchists! Now there's a blast from the past! Can't remember their last tour. And Rentamob staged the gig! This is really retro stuff.It's not retro stuff - it's true! Some of the most vocal protesters were indeed communists, and at least one is a revolutionary communist in the style of Trotsky. He's a fan of North Korea and its dynasty of great leaders. He wants to see a North Korean style state in this country! He's also English lol.

[M Swanson]

It's not retro stuff - it's true! Some of the most vocal protesters were indeed communists, and at least one is a revolutionary communist in the style of Trotsky. He's a fan of North Korea and its dynasty of great leaders. He wants to see a North Korean style state in this country! He's also English lol.

ROFL. My word, I think you may well be describing Comrade Flynn here, Sis. :lol: See Little, you learn something new everyday!

Repped

[John Little]

It's not retro stuff - it's true! Some of the most vocal protesters were indeed communists, and at least one is a revolutionary communist in the style of Trotsky. He's a fan of North Korea and its dynasty of great leaders. He wants to see a North Korean style state in this country! He's also English lol.

Yay!

Nut jobs of the world unite!

You have nothing to lose but your frontal lobes!

Was the Scottish Standard bearer there too?
Where would the Right be without all those lovely juicy Leftie stereotypes?

Can there be a Right without a Left?

A Yin without a Yang?

A UKIP without 'them'?

Are you one of THEM SiS?

[John Little]

ROFL. My word, I think you may well be describing Comrade Flynn here, Sis. :lol: See Little, you learn something new everyday! Repped

Yes I do.

I think you already know everything though.

[M Swanson]

[lol] Unfortunately, nowhere near everything Little. But I've got the SP on you, bro. Mum's the word! :lol:

[secrets in symmetry]

Yay!

Nut jobs of the world unite!

You have nothing to lose but your frontal lobes!

Was the Scottish Standard bearer there too?
Where would the Right be without all those lovely juicy Leftie stereotypes?

Can there be a Right without a Left?

A Yin without a Yang?

A UKIP without 'them'?

Are you one of THEM SiS?Radical Independence is indeed a home for nut jobs of the world. It's a haven for commies, Trots, anarchists, and various other brands of failures and self-proclaimed fruitcakes. Its more sensible wing boasts a number of Greens, Trade Unionists, and even our County's very own Kevin Wiliamson.

I don't know whether the two people I know are involved with Radical Independence. I suspect not, but that's just a guess.

[secrets in symmetry]

SiS..."I doubt many of them were (descended from) Picts.

Indigenous Edinburgh folk are as likely descended from the original Scots as from the Picts,"...

The Picts were here long before the Scotti!Yes, the Picts were in this country long before the Scots, but Edinburgh was largely populated by Northumbrians - which is perhaps not the best name for them, but they weren't Picts. My knowledge of Scottish ethnic/cultural history is a bit hazy, but there may also have been large numbers of Britons in the Edinburgh area.

[John Little]

Was that before they Pict whether to be Scotti or Geordii?

[macadamia]

Whoever they were, they were bullies and cowards. Whoever they were, I thank them again for their much-publicised contribution to the "no" vote. To allow people like that to run their own affairs would be dereliction of duty, and, at the moment, the SNPeanuts are busy feeding them a diet of misinformation, bile and hatred of "Wastemonster", which is totally engaged in "scaremongering", and who won't "see common sense" and hand a lot of things over to Scotland. I will be so delighted to watch the Scottish people turn on Salmond and Co. once this hugely expensive farce is over.

[Flynn]

ROFL. My word, I think you may well be describing Comrade Flynn here, Sis. :lol: See Little, you learn something new everyday!

Repped

Clearly you don't learn. I'm from Coleraine, Londonderry. I live in England. I don't vote tory, my politics are - obviously - left of centre. Seems to me you equate advocates of compassion and equality with 'Communists, Troskyites, and North Koreans'. That tells the forum an enormous amount about you, your mentality, and your level of intelligence.

I'll leave you now to continue your ad hominem ravings.

[secrets in symmetry]

Clearly you don't learn. I'm from Coleraine, Londonderry. I live in England.What was it like growing up in Londonderry during the Troubles? The sort of behaviour seen in Edinburgh yesterday must seem minor compared with what you've experienced. Do you worry that Scotland's secessionist versus unionist "fight" could go the same way as Northern Ireland did?

[Flynn]

What was it like growing up in Londonderry during the Troubles? The sort of behaviour seen in Edinburgh yesterday must seem minor compared with what you've experienced. Do you worry that Scotland's secessionist versus unionist "fight" could go the same way as Northern Ireland did?

It wasn't fun, but people got on with living. The sectarianism is why I now live in England, I got sick to the back teeth with it. I don't think Scotland would go the same way, mostly because geographically and politically Scotland is not divided the way Ireland is. There is no Scottish north/south, catholic/protestant, loyalist/unionist divide to the same degree as there was/is across the Irish sea.

[John Little]

[lol] Unfortunately, nowhere near everything Little. But I've got the SP on you, bro. Mum's the word! :lol:

Sicherheitsprüfung (SP) Hmmm - I might just scrape through - but I would fail on the emissions probably.

[Flynn]

Farage throws a tantrum and hangs up the phone when asked questions by BBC interviewer:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22566180#TWEET758757


UKIP: The comedy gift that keeps on giving! :lol:

[secrets in symmetry]

It wasn't fun, but people got on with living. The sectarianism is why I now live in England, I got sick to the back teeth with it. I don't think Scotland would go the same way, mostly because geographically and politically Scotland is not divided the way Ireland is. There is no Scottish north/south, catholic/protestant, loyalist/unionist divide to the same degree as there was/is across the Irish sea.Thanks for that. I think (and hope) you're right.

Sectarianism can be pretty bad in Glasgow and the surrounding areas, and also in many other parts of the central belt (including quite far east). There's a fairly strong connection between protestantism and Unionism (especially amongst supporters of a certain football club), but I'm not aware of a significant connection between secessionism and catholicism. I could be wrong there though.

[Humerous Vegetable]

Nigel Farage, like most politicians, is a chancer, who will go anywhere and do anything for publicity. Unfortunately for UKIP he is not very bright and has not learned that he has to be able to answer criticism without slamming the phone down and storming out of challenging situations. He appears to have become so used to the fawning and adulation of his English supporters that he is unprepared for anyone who might criticize his party's policies.
UKIP appears to have made no effort to understand the difference between the Scottish and English political agenda and to believe that "one size fits all" Wrong

[macadamia]

My sincere apologies. My opinions on the Farage incident were restrained by the BBC masking out the bit from the young enthusiastic Scottish democracy protesters when they said (thank you Channel 4 for leaving it in) "Stick the Union Jack up your (word beginning with "a"). This level of intellectual debate from the bullet-headed rentamob "students" gives me the unalloyed pleasure of realising that once the Cybernats and the SNPeanuts have pursued this level of "debate" much further, the "NO" vote is a done deal. Even Salmond will realise with friends like these, the international community is going to regard the possibility of Scottish Independence with some concern. The"Yes" camp strategy of attempting to silence any and every word or demonstration of opposition is a sign of both immaturity and weakness. They don't just do this to Nigel Farage - just read the SNP's pages on FB to see the litany of thuggery and hatred against anyone daring to suggest staying in the Union might be the best call.

[Flynn]

More racist behaviour from UKIP:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/18/ukip-councillors-anti-racism-pledge-lincoln-_n_3297890.html

[M Swanson]

More racist behaviour from UKIP:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/18/ukip-councillors-anti-racism-pledge-lincoln-_n_3297890.html

Grow up Flynn. There's racism in every political party, race, creed and colour. Do I have to link to the Labour officials who have been fingered? Boring. Yawn!

[Flynn]

Grow up Flynn. There's racism in every political party, race, creed and colour. Do I have to link to the Labour officials who have been fingered? Boring. Yawn!

Please list all the Labour MPs and councillors who have been expelled for racism.

Meanwhile racists come out from under their rocks in UKIP on a daily basis.

[M Swanson]

http://www.leftfutures.org/2011/09/labour-party-must-pay-123000-compensation-to-sacked-asian-councillor/

(http://www.leftfutures.org/2011/09/labour-party-must-pay-123000-compensation-to-sacked-asian-councillor/)Labour refuse to sack Diane Abbott for 'racist' Twitter comments | UK | News | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/293692/Labour-refuse-to-sack-Diane-Abbott-for-racist-Twitter-comments) - Disgraceful. White people have been sacked for much less.TOWER HAMLETS LABOUR AGENT MAKES ISLAMOPHOBIC COMMENTS | Socialist Unity
(http://socialistunity.com/tower-hamlets-labour-candidate-makes-islamophobic-comments/#.UZUZbrWG2rM)
There's three found in under 5 minutes. ;)

[Flynn]

Three? And one of them, Diane Abbot. an extremely questionable case. Three in over 100 years of the Labour party existing. Compare that with the daily occurrences of racism within UKIP.

[Keyser_soze]

Well we werent very tolerant of Farage the other day in Edinburgh were we ?? What an embarrasment, And the irony of them clowns calling him a racist while at the same time tellin him ti f back to england with the next breath !!!

Nationalists ? embarrasment to this country

[M Swanson]

Three? And one of them, Diane Abbot. an extremely questionable case. Three in over 100 years of the Labour party existing. Compare that with the daily occurrences of racism within UKIP.

So you think Diane Abbot is a questionable case then Comrade Flynn? I suppose that instead of her claiming, "white people love playing divide and rule," it had been Theresa May saying the same about black people, then it would have been "questionable," too? Absolute nonsense! You and your ilk would have been baying for her blood and ........... got it! Another example of the wretched positive discrimination?

"Three?" In a pigs' ear.

Birmingham Labour Party found guilty of racism - West Midlands News - News - Birmingham Post

BBC News - Paul Flynn MP apologises for Jewish ambassador remarks

'I don't debate with Israelis': George Galloway accused of racism after walking out of Middle East debate at Oxford - UK Politics - UK - The Independent (http://www.birminghampost.net/news/west-midlands-news/2007/11/22/birmingham-labour-party-found-guilty-of-racism-65233-20142677/)

[macadamia]

In the world of the politically correct, there is only one route to the truth. No other ways are tolerated, while whatever the current fashion in thinking dictates what is "appropriate", or "best practice".

This in itself is a mockery of democratic thought and action. It is closer to extremism.

Facts speak for themselves. When a group of people crowd a single man on a pavement and say "your policies are rotten", this is legitimate protest.

When a group of people say to that man "stick your Union Jack up your etc." and "go back to England" these people are demeaned, have become extreme, are hateful, and are harmful to any cause they try to represent.

When the First Minister makes a mealy-mouthed half apology for this outrage, and dismisses the incident as "not exactly the Dreyfuss trial", he has laid down a marker as to what he and his party is prepared to tolerate.

This one man, Nigel Farage, whatever anyone may think of him, has changed the direction of Scottish politics as much as he has done in England, without perhaps winning a single vote.

There is an upside. From now on, any unfairness done to the Secessionist cause can be dismissed as "legitimate protest", and "not exactly the Dreyfuss case".

Potential trading partners will be able to see how the possible future Scottish parliament condones certain behaviours from its own citizens.

The more England, which holds many sanctions in the future, and especially for the future of Scotland, is insulted by Salmond's stormtroopers, the less favourable a settlement they're likely to get.

In some ways, I wish the opinions of the REAL secessionists can be exposed to a greater, international audience. It may well cause more than raised eyebrows, and will certainly encourage an even more enhanced "no" vote when the time comes.

[Flynn]

So you think Diane Abbot is a questionable case then Comrade Flynn? I suppose that instead of her claiming, "white people love playing divide and rule," it had been Theresa May saying the same about black people, then it would have been "questionable," too? Absolute nonsense! You and your ilk would have been baying for her blood and ........... got it! Another example of the wretched positive discrimination?

"Three?" In a pigs' ear.

Birmingham Labour Party found guilty of racism - West Midlands News - News - Birmingham Post

(http://www.birminghampost.net/news/west-midlands-news/2007/11/22/birmingham-labour-party-found-guilty-of-racism-65233-20142677/)BBC News - Paul Flynn MP apologises for Jewish ambassador remarks

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-16070880)'I don't debate with Israelis': George Galloway accused of racism after walking out of Middle East debate at Oxford - UK Politics - UK - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/i-dont-debate-with-israelis-george-galloway-accused-of-racism-after-walking-out-of-middle-east-debate-at-oxford-8505232.html)

That's two, one rather weak case, and one strongly disputed. The third, George Galloway, is not a Labour MP.

Still got a looooong way to go to match the regiments of UKIP racists exposed - and fully expelled from UKIP for outright undisputed racism - in the last couple of months.

Let's also look at UKIP's allies in Brussells, the parties UKIP regularly votes in agreement with:

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/ukip/allies

[squidge]

Jeeeezo. It was a bunch of students throwing metaphorical eggs at the mouthpiece of a somewhat unpleasant pompous nonentity of a political part. It was NOT an SNP party conference!!!!

This determination to link anti english sentiment to the Independence campaign is risible. The Better Together campaign is supported by the Orange Order, BNP, the National Front(Yes I thought they had gone away too but they are quite lively in certain parts of The UK and scotland) and the delightful SDA. I would never suggest this highly unpleasant lunatic fringe defines the NO campaign.Some of these nasty folk have a facebook page which posts photos they have taken of people at YES events and demos and asks for the names and addresses of the people they have targetted.

Last night I was at a ceilidh for the North Rising, a more nationalistic, independence focused event it would be hard to imagine. There was not one scrap of Anti english sentiment. Not one iota, not a sneer, not a dismissal, not a rude word, not a "im sorry but". The only mention of "Braveheart" was in a song called "where's the river Mel" which was very very funny.This situation is not unusual. I have been to meetings all over the place. Openly English and quietly English often assumed to be Scottish as the wife of my husband and never once have I come across anti english attitudes within a pro independence context. Nonsense.

[Flynn]

Meanwhile here's today's trio of UKIP racists:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-councillors-racist-rants-more-1897414


I (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-councillors-racist-rants-more-1897414) make that at least 22 UKIP councillors proven racist in the space of one week.

[Flynn]

And within an hour there's another one!

Oh dear.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/ukip-face-fresh-right-wing-row.21068665

[Keyser_soze]

So you think that behaviour was acceptable ??????? I think it was disgraceful . Stop moving the goalposts, im not mentioning the BNP SNP SDA OO or the NF , im mentioning those clowns the other day , that was seen all around the world. Makes me ashamed to be Scottish, people like that in my country , were supposed to be one country many cultures arent we ?

[squidge]

They were protesting. I dont necessarily agree with their methods but. I absolutely believe they should have the right to do so. There is plenty of evidence to show that it was an anti racist protest. I have friends who were having a meal in the pub and were well annoyed that they had to put up with the carry on but even they said it was not anti english. Nigel Farage is a pompous self publicist whos attempts to label this as a racist attack insult those who live with racism on a regular basis. You would think it was the end of civilisation as we know it with the howling and gnashing of teeth thats going on. It was a protest, a politician got shouted at. Nothing was thrown, no one was hurt and a politician was sent away with his tail between his legs. Hardly rocking the very foundations of society!

[macadamia]

OK, so ignoring the maturity of their protest, no great harm done. Wait till Mr. Salmond finds himself in London, surrounded by hostile students yelling "You can stick your Saltire up your etc! and "Go back to Scotland", before requiring police protection in a democracy to be taken to a place of safety. Will he be so chipper about such a situation being "no Dreyfuss trial", I wonder......

Och, what a ridiculous thought. He'd never dare go out without a bodyguard.

[Flynn]

OK, so ignoring the maturity of their protest, no great harm done. Wait till Mr. Salmond finds himself in London, surrounded by hostile students yelling "You can stick your Saltire up your etc! and "Go back to Scotland", before requiring police protection in a democracy to be taken to a place of safety. Will he be so chipper about such a situation being "no Dreyfuss trial", I wonder......Och, what a ridiculous thought. He'd never dare go out without a bodyguard.Wouldn't happen. No-one in London cares or knows who Salmond is.

[macadamia]

Agreed, Flynn. The real brains behind the UK have long since calculated the "noises off " from Scotland can be dealt with by calling in a few favours, and making the real cost of Independence so brutally high that even the lowest of Salmond's troopers, counting on their fingers, will be able to work out secession isn't worth the candle.

And yes, I know that's not really fair. But when you've had this bunch of See You Jimmys banging on about terrible tories, Wastemonster, scaremongering, and other democratic concepts, the offended party has the right to withdraw goodwill and kick the opposition where it hurts - in the pocket!

So, bring on the sophistry, the smoke and mirrors, the centuries of misrule, and the unique drift to victimhood, and the scenario will play out to the UK's ultimate satisfaction.

Thanks for your contribution!

[squidge]

Sophistry.... You couldnt make it up. Scotland can afford to be an independent country

If there is a YES vote the whole WORLD will be watching and the rest of the UK will fall over itself to be seen to be doing the right thing. Negotiation and compromise will be the way forward.

Tories are not terrible but this tory government is appalling. Bedroom tax and MPs pay rises are todays "all in this together" story.

The referendum offers an Opportunity for change for the better and for a government which we vote for and which has the needs and priorities of Scotland at its heart. Because as you said, the westminster government take no notice whatsoever of the "noises off". The thing is that its the noises off which are actually the voices of the electorate. They ignore them at their peril.

[Flynn]

I was 't talking about the Westminster government, I was talking about the average person in the street. People in England don't give a leprechaun's fart whether Scotland stays or leaves. No-one talks about it outside of TV debates, no-one knows who Salmond is, and no-one cares.

[macadamia]

So according to you no-one in England knows who Salmond is, what he stands for, and what Scotland might or might not do when they vote in a referendum next year? Try trawling through the many mainstream BBC/ITV/Channel Four News bulletins, watched by millions of UK viewers, in which the Big Scottish Story regularly appears, and is usually well-placed in the hierarchy of the UK news agenda. (That's the bit BEFORE Jackie Bird comes on). You don't half come up with some arrant tosh.

[secrets in symmetry]

The anti-Porage protest was organised by Radical Independence, many of whom are vehemently anti-English. Many of the demonstrators in the street were evidently vehemently anti-English.

I know two people who were at the demo.

One has been mentioned in the press several times (although not by name, as far as I know). He is English, and is he not anti-English - as far as I know lol!

[secrets in symmetry]

I was 't talking about the Westminster government, I was talking about the average person in the street. People in England don't give a leprechaun's fart whether Scotland stays or leaves. No-one talks about it outside of TV debates, no-one knows who Salmond is, and no-one cares.I agree with that, at least to a first approximation. Many know who Salmond is, but they know little about him.

[macadamia]

Hmmm. You have a point, SiS. Maybe even a selling point for the flailing "back of a fag packet" exercise in "please, miss, I done me sums" just released on the greater public.

Sorry, I meant the learned paper on "The Way Ahead", which, in 70 pages reveals

a) If it wasn't for Westminster, we'd be chest high in spare lolly

b) So vote for a free Scotland, because it'll all turn out lovely.

I can just see it. "He rode in from nowhere. He now stands astride the country like a Colussus. But who is Salmond? What drives him? What goes on behind those big panda eyes? Nobody really knows. So make sure YOU vote for Salmond - Man of Mystery"

At the end of the day, it's STILL all arrant tosh.

[squidge]

When were you at a radical Independence Meeting lately Secrets and where is the evidence that they are vehemently anti english. That is like most of the rest of the stuff you post - utter sh ----- rubbish#

From Their Facebook page


We stand for a vision of Scotland that is:
• Green and environmentally sustainable.
• Internationalist and opposed to Trident and war
• For a social alternative to austerity and privatisation
• A modern republic for real democracy
• Committed to equality and opposition to discrimination on grounds of gender, race or sexuality

We want this campaign to belong to everyone who holds a radical vision of an independent Scotland.

[secrets in symmetry]

Sorry, I meant the learned paper on "The Way Ahead", which, in 70 pages ...
Are they still counting oil taxation twice lol?

There was a time when they told us they would use it to create an oil fund, and to reduce debt. Yes, they planned to use the same pot of money twice!

[squidge]

Why cant you use some to set up an oil fund and some to pay off debts?

[macadamia]

Squidge, it's words like "some" in anything to do with cash which renders such considerations dubious and thus hard to believe in.

Also , with regard to the Radical Independence people, who had sought out Mr Farage to deliver their protest of disapproval, I repeat my opinion that "take the Union Jack and stick it up your etc. " is pretty offensive on several levels, and, given that this well recorded (Channel 4 News carried it, even if the BBC didn't very much) shout was aimed at no-one other than Mr Farage, I think it would be fair to say that they were being rather anti-English.

But we forgive them. They must have added tens of thousands to the "no" vote. At the end of the day, would YOU want to live in a country where you are subjected to indecent and personal attacks, and whose leader dismisses it as "not the Dreyfuss trial?" How many miles of column inches, radio and TV commentary and over the fence conversations have put this in the spotlight? No, I think most people who value civilisation will be moved to see better behaviour all round.

[squidge]

But can you not take a sum of money and use part of it for an oil fund and part for paying off the debt? Is that impossible or ridiculous? I dont really know whether there is a plan to do that but it seems the lip curling is a bit over the top.

My position on the farage nonsense has already been stated. The fuss over a bunch of protesting students is bonkers and boring and their behaviour was no more representative of the nationalist viewpoint than the disgusting insults that i get when I publish a pro independence piece are representative of the whole unionist viewpoint. Although maybe secrets is saving some of the worst and more erm .... imaginative suggestions for his "traitors" if it is a NO vote. The whole thing has been hysterical nonsense. He HELD his press conference, he wasnt silenced, he wasnt hurt or racially abused. I didnt like their behaviour and I wouldnt choose to behave like that but you are acting like it was the end of civilisation as we know it.

Get a grip!

[Rheghead]

When were you at a radical Independence Meeting lately Secrets and where is the evidence that they are vehemently anti english. That is like most of the rest of the stuff you post - utter sh ----- rubbish#

From Their Facebook page


We stand for a vision of Scotland that is:
• Green and environmentally sustainable.
• Internationalist and opposed to Trident and war
• For a social alternative to austerity and privatisation
• A modern republic for real democracy
• Committed to equality and opposition to discrimination on grounds of gender, race or sexuality

We want this campaign to belong to everyone who holds a radical vision of an independent Scotland.

Very noble goals. Here is the rub, if Scotland goes independent then the maximum population that can be affected is 5 million. I think bigger fish can be caught by rolling out such political aspirations for the rest of the UK. The YesCampaign is just political escapism just for those that have a means to do so ie independence.

[secrets in symmetry]

What you read on Facebook isn't what I've seen in practice Rheghead. I have encountered Radical Independence campaigners and their supporters at several events. Most of them were anti-English extreme-left-wing fanatics. They spoke a language that was barely recognisable, and they looked as if they hadn't washed for a month. I didn't get close enough to smell them - thank God!

[macadamia]

Oooh Squidge, you're so funny when you're angry! My criticism stands, as does yours. You live with your version of La La Land, I will with mine. I'm still a bit hacked off with the suggestion re the Union Jack, but as I said, it'll be worth all those "No" votes. And also cheered up plenty to see the acres of coverage Channel 4 news gave to the Portentous Panda's 70 Page "How We Will Win" Docket tonight! That'll be 0 minutes and 0 seconds. Quite right, for a work of fiction in a news bulletin!

[Rheghead]

What you read on Facebook isn't what I've seen in practice Rheghead. I have encountered Radical Independence campaigners and their supporters at several events. Most of them were anti-English extreme-left-wing fanatics. They spoke a language that was barely recognisable, and they looked as if they hadn't washed for a month. I didn't get close enough to smell them - thank God!

I was merely commenting on the quoted bullet points. I'll go along with 90% with them, it doesn't make me anti English though. Though if I see the likes of the EDL, BNP and UKIP then I'd want to heckle them as well.

[secrets in symmetry]

I'm beginning to see you as a supporter of Radical Independence Rheghead. Am I right?

Perhaps you're only a potential supporter, but you do seem to fit in well with the stated aspirations of their Green wing.

[squidge]

What you read on Facebook isn't what I've seen in practice Rheghead. I have encountered Radical Independence campaigners and their supporters at several events. Most of them were anti-English extreme-left-wing fanatics. They spoke a language that was barely recognisable, and they looked as if they hadn't washed for a month. I didn't get close enough to smell them - thank God!

Utter rubbish AGAIN

[squidge]

Oooh Squidge, you're so funny when you're angry! My criticism stands, as does yours. You live with your version of La La Land, I will with mine. I'm still a bit hacked off with the suggestion re the Union Jack, but as I said, it'll be worth all those "No" votes. And also cheered up plenty to see the acres of coverage Channel 4 news gave to the Portentous Panda's 70 Page "How We Will Win" Docket tonight! That'll be 0 minutes and 0 seconds. Quite right, for a work of fiction in a news bulletin!

Lol Im not angry Macademia - Im just baffled as to why you live in Scotland and you are happy for a UK wide news channel to completely ignore issues affecting Scotland. Im not surprised like - see Flynns comments above but why would you not want developments in this debate covered.

[macadamia]

Squidge - sometimes my fingers type quicker than my brain. I guess I was trying to be a bit clever with that "fiction" remark! My main and only beef was that Channel 4 carried a true audio account of what was being shouted, while the BBC very carefully cut the "Union Jack & where to put it" remark, clearly because to have included it would not have suited their agenda. I'm all for good and wide reporting, but I prefer it accurate in its narrative, not partial. Otherwise, long may the debate continue, preferably without the knuckletrailers - on either side!

[Rheghead]

I'm beginning to see you as a supporter of Radical Independence Rheghead. Am I right?

Perhaps you're only a potential supporter, but you do seem to fit in well with the stated aspirations of their Green wing.

Well the question was Would you vote for independence? Yes but it depends on certain criteria. If it was Are going to vote for independence? Then I would say no.

You are right that my green aspirations are fulfilled by their Green wing. So I can see how the green agenda could be firmed up by independence otherwise the greensceptic politics from the south will always hamper any green aspirations in the north. One thing that won't be a part of my voting intention is my own personal circumstances, my vote will definitely be in the interests of my family and for Scotland as a whole.

[secrets in symmetry]

Although Radical Independence seems to have a Green Wing, my experience of them is of neanderthal socialists from the SSP, Solidarity and a range of other extreme left fruitcakes, most of whom wouldn't be capable of recognising a green agenda if you hit them on the head with it. The RI clowns I've encountered have mostly been dirty, uneducated career scroungers and wasters. They're anti-everything except themselves! I don't think you'd fit in very well there lol!

[secrets in symmetry]

Getting back to Nigel Porage's followers - aka Oatcakes... They would be a fine match for the hard-left fruitcakes of the Radical Independence Campaign - I'd predict a draw after 5 rounds of hard combat, but I'd hate to be the person charged with clearing up the blood!

[squidge]

Why cant you use some to set up an oil fund and some to pay off debts?

I asked this question earlier in the thread and as SIS must have me on ignore he never answered the question - well today I found the answer and it is that you can and this is how it could work.

“An attractive approach in the short term would be to plan the

government’s spending plans on the basis of a cautious forecast of
oil revenues produced by an independent fiscal commission. Then, if
oil revenues exceed the forecasts, the excess could be transferred
into a stabilisation fund.”


Drawing on Scotland’s financial strengths relative to the UK, such an

approach would offer a credible way to ensure predictability in the budget
process and in the setting of policies and spending programmes.

http://scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0042/00422987.pdf

[secrets in symmetry]

Nigel Porage is a tax dodger, but he's sorry, so that makes it ok - apparently....

Nigel Porage admits offshore tax 'mistake' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23001529)

[Keyser_soze]

hes no got cod eyes or looks like Odd Bodd fa the carry on films - does this mean he can be a leader ? wish all the thugs who go and harass him would go and harass Abu Hamza with as much vigour.....

[PantsMAN]

wish all the thugs who go and harass him would go and harass Abu Hamza with as much vigour.....

Aye, just as soon as he turns up in a pub on the Royal mile...

[secrets in symmetry]

Nigel has been waist-deep in stale and sticky porage this week. With ladies of ill repute not cleaning spilt oats behind the fridge, and the taxpayer spluttering about coughing up for his friends in bongo bongo land, he surely needs to keep his spirtles under control.