View Full Version : .Orger Usergroup for Change
Kaishowing
12-Dec-06, 00:34
Just wondering...when is all this going to be settled??
I'm not trying to be funny, but are we all meant to keep going round and round until we either all agree or we're too fed up to continue?
I know that we all want the best for the site, and want to get all this sorted out as quickly as possible, but the longer this limbo state continues, the harder it will be for the forum to recover.
As it is the site is haemorrhaging members like they're going out of fashion.:confused
If someone's already decided a timetable, then I apologise for not seeing it.
As long as you're not paying for it, it is a private website.
Would you expect a bigger say than the owners in any website which carries advertisements..as many personal sites do?
There is no requirement to have a forum on here at all, and we'd do well to remember that. The rest of the site could quite happily exist without it.
Every time I click on an advertisement and maybe like what I see and decide to click on that website then I am Indeed paying, (in a small way), towards the running of this website.
porshiepoo
12-Dec-06, 00:52
Just wondering...when is all this going to be settled??
I'm not trying to be funny, but are we all meant to keep going round and round until we either all agree or we're too fed up to continue?
I know that we all want the best for the site, and want to get all this sorted out as quickly as possible, but the longer this limbo state continues, the harder it will be for the forum to recover.
As it is the site is haemorrhaging members like they're going out of fashion.:confused
If someone's already decided a timetable, then I apologise for not seeing it.
Well I'd suggested leaving it on here overnight as there are some members that don't get a chance to come on till late and I thought it only fair that they're all given the opportunity to volunteer.
If it's put to a vote then I guess thats gonna have to take another few days but there was even rumblings of a vote to decide whether we do in fact vote for the usergroup. Confused!!!!!!!!!
I don't know what the way ahead is anymore.
Not everybody can be pleased and whatever way this goes there is going to be discord among some that wanted it handled the other way.
Personally I think the forums days are numbered, if we as adults cannot agree on something such as a usergroup then we have no chance over the mod group.
Everyones got different opinions and while everybody's opinion is viable they can't all be pleased and that is what is going to cause the rumblings.
I meant to keep out of this thread because I didn't think it was appropriate for a moderator who was appointed under the current system to start telling angry people how that system should be changed. But the road to you-you-where is paved with good intentions and all that...
Last night, I tried to post a detached "historical" narrative of the events which led up to this situation. Tonight, I'll throw in a few of my own suggestions and opinions:
I don't think moderators (or ex-moderators) should be part of the new user group. New ideas should be thrashed out by new people and some kind of agreement reached on how to move things forward. Moderators could (and perhaps should?) be consulted or involved at a later stage. It would be great if much of this could be done in face-to-face meetings because this would avoid some of the problems of online discussion.
OK, how many are for the status quo then, with replacements for acameron and golach? Apart from those who have made their thoughts fairly obvious in respect of this suggestion?The Status Quo? Wouldn't that take us "down down deeper and down" into the mire? :cool:
Seriously:
I don't think the status quo is an option right now. Things need to change, and, just as importantly, they need to be seen to change. How much they need to change is open to debate and this should be thrashed out by the new user group.
i would like to nominate JU, Highlander, Piglet, Rockchick, Scorrie and Weeboyagee
Of what i have read recently they are all impartial, fair and not trouble makers.
good luck.I absolutely agree, and you can add a number of others to the list. But I think the group also needs a few people who have strongly-felt opinions already, and they should try to convince these impartial and fair people that their suggestions for change are good ones.
Come on Connie, volunteer for the group, you seem to have some good ideas!:)I support Rheghead's call. Come on connie, you have expressed many opinions and suggestions for change over the last year. Why not volunteer to join the group and try to convince a bunch of your fellow orgers that your ideas can improve things for you and those whose opinions you support? Yes, I'm being serious.
I don't know the best way to establish this group. Porshie has already discovered it's an impossible task for one person. There is no fair and open way to do it on a forum such as this, so we have to use what's available. More on that some other time.
Kaishowing
12-Dec-06, 01:07
If it's put to a vote then I guess thats gonna have to take another few days but there was even rumblings of a vote to decide whether we do in fact vote for the usergroup. Confused!!!!!!!!!
Er....perhaps that's down to me...I started a poll to see what users wanted to see happen in general. It was meant just to give everyone an idea about how things stood, and what sort of split within the site we were looking at.
It's set only to run for 24 hours.
Just for my two-penneth.....I think people should have 24 hours to put themselves forward, list all the candidates in a poll and give each user 12 votes to select his personal panel. That way you should have the User group ready to do business by the weekend at the latest.
As everyone agrees that you're good people you should organize it.
Right...off to Noddyblinkums for me.
highlander
12-Dec-06, 01:18
OK this is my last posting on here tonight, please you orgers out there, vote on this, there was plenty people to voice thier views when things went pear shaped, plz plzzzz try to sort this out, porshiepoo is trying her best to help to solve the problems, but if you dont vote, or if this does not resolve matters here, i can asure you, you are going to loose this message board, some may laugh that i am getting so het up about this, well yes i blooming well am, if something is worth fighting for, speak up now, some shouted that when we had moderators it was all a clique, well if you dont have your vote or say, it will be the same thing with this new group, admin will only stand for this for so long, do we want to be known as a group of people who cant come to a sensible decision, and go forward, okkkkkkkkk i will stop now, but come on, put your tuppence worth forward, before its all over.
Dreadnought
12-Dec-06, 01:20
We need a poll to be set up by someone who knows how.
porshiepoo
12-Dec-06, 01:36
Ok so what exactly are we voting for?
Are we voting to decide whether we actually vote for usergroup members? Or have you taken it upon yourself to decide that that's what the forum is doing regardless?
Dreadnought
12-Dec-06, 01:38
Highlander asked for people to get voting. I replied to his post.
But hey, feel free to jump on my case for no reason some more! :roll:
highlander
12-Dec-06, 01:40
When i said to get voting, i meant when the proper voting is put in place, and btw im a SHE not a he
do we need to vote for the user group members? i thought they were their to help porshie sort out the nominations for mods? surely (if my understanding of what they are to do is correct ...which it might not be) anyone willing to help out would be welcomed?
porshiepoo
12-Dec-06, 01:43
Highlander asked for people to get voting. I replied to his post.
But hey, feel free to jump on my case for no reason some more! :roll:
I wasn't aware that I was jumping on your case! Perhaps all the hype tonight has made you a tad paranoid. I was simply trying to figure out where we are at this point in time as there doesn't seem to be anything tangible on here that people can look at, it now seems to be spread all over the forum.
Hmmmmmm, I think this is gong to take much longer than expected, but hey at least it's constructive, people are 'doing' and it hopefully means we can all sleep a tad easier tonight.
Dreadnought
12-Dec-06, 01:45
Sorry. 'Highlander' is not exactly gender specific, lol! In my mind when I hear it i see:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Minitar1/CFtheseIMAGESareCOPYRIGHTED/highlander-christopher-lambert-9912.jpg
:D
Dreadnought
12-Dec-06, 01:47
Ok Porshie, so this is NOT jumping on my case?
Or have you taken it upon yourself to decide that that's what the forum is doing regardless?
Whatever, a poll does need to be set up so things can start moving.
Gogglebox
12-Dec-06, 01:55
I have tried to appeal for calm this last few days and a sense of perspective to recent events but there a some out there who are just spoiling for a fight and a sacrificial lamb
I point particulalry to Dreadnought and Angela5 but there are a few others .You need to take a look at the stuff you are posting it is just keeping this thing going and serving no purpose.
As far as i can see Angela5 you shout that Kingetter has not has his/her say but there is nothing stopping him, as far as the member list says hes not banned and free to come on and post his opinion should he want. Apologies have apparently been tendered
Dreadnought your negative approach to solving this problem and rehashing the events and looking for problems not solutions is ridiculous provocative and just stirring. You are not the only ones
The constant backlash posts whingeing and looking for a sacrificial lamb and blocking a way forward are annoying and putting people off and will be what will be the end of this forum if things are not looked at with a view to solution
Grow up, Get over it and maybe some of the people leaving might consider coming back
If you get the sacrificial lamb you are looking for the forum will be finished
So think on before you continue your pointless negative tirade in all these threads
Dreadnought
12-Dec-06, 01:57
Asking for a poll to be set up so we can move on is negative?
Gogglebox, read your own post before you point the finger of stirring up trouble at others.
Tiger Jones
12-Dec-06, 01:59
...As far as i can see Angela5 you shout that Kingetter has not has his/her say but there is nothing stopping him, as far as the member list says hes not banned and free to come on and post his opinion should he want. Apologies have apparently been tendered...
Kingetter has been away from home all week. I dread to think how overwhelmed he's going to feel over all of this when he gets back.
Gogglebox
12-Dec-06, 02:20
Asking for a poll to be set up so we can move on is negative?
Gogglebox, read your own post before you point the finger of stirring up trouble at others.
Dont know what your meaning but look at your posts over this thread and the others this last few days
Hardly constructive
Didnt think we had appointed you as Shop Steward or Manure stirrer
Metalattakk
12-Dec-06, 02:35
Sorry, I disagree. If it hadn't have been for people like Dreadnought and many others who shared his views, we'd now likely all be "enjoying" this 'Miserable User' plug-in.
I agree on many (but certainly not all) of the points that Dreadnought (and others who share some of his views) have, and the fact that he's not prepared to roll over and play dead is highly commendable in my eyes.
He wants the same thing that most people want: a usable and entertaining forum.
But, he also wants a modicum of accountability and responsibility to be shown by those in positions of power.
Sorry, I disagree. If it hadn't have been for people like Dreadnought and many others who shared his views, we'd now likely all be "enjoying" this 'Miserable User' plug-in.
I agree on many (but certainly not all) of the points that Dreadnought (and others who share some of his views) have, and the fact that he's not prepared to roll over and play dead is highly commendable in my eyes.
He wants the same thing that most people want: a usable and entertaining forum.
But, he also wants a modicum of accountability and responsibility to be shown by those in positions of power.
I agree with you Metal, He now has no option but roll over & play dead as suspended, Very convenient for some though
Metalattakk
12-Dec-06, 02:58
Just noticed. It's disgraceful if he's been suspended for simply voicing his opinions.
Gogglebox
12-Dec-06, 03:38
Just noticed hes been suspended - must have just happened
Nowt to do with me i can assure you, i might not agree with him but i would tell him directly as i did i wouldnt report him
If you look over his posts over the last few days they have been getting rash but i hope he gets back soon
But not just him a lot have got caught up and gotten over heated with their comments. THis is why i say to people to keep calm and a perspective or more and more are going to get whipped up and say things that will get them banned
Trying once more to stick to the matter at hand:
Ok, the list so far:
VOLUNTEERS:
Porshiepoo
Mr P Cannop
Ricco
Gogglebox
Weeboyagee
WeeBurd
Peedie
Elenna
JamieS
CrashBandicoot1979
Boozeburglar
IceBox
RockChick
Rheghead
Golach
Sam
Calish6
Praetorian
The following have been NOMINATED by various posters. If they would like to volunteer and be included please speak up:
Jings00
The Pepsi Challenge
Gleber2
PultneyTooner
Tristan
Cedric
ConnieB19
Angela5
Krieve
Kaishowing
Kingetter
Ju
Piglet
Scorrie
As Dreadnought said, that is the list for prospective members of the Usergroup Committee so far (thank you for that, Dreadnought, I think everyone would agree it was very helpful). I cant see that there was anyone wanting adding since he posted it, but if someone has gotten missed, or anyone else wishes to volunteer, give a shout!
I dont know when the deadline for volunteers should be set...would something like 5pm tomorrow (Tues) make sense to people? Then someone who is able to do so will need to set up the poll...to run from tomorrow night until sometime this weekend (?) as it seems that is the way the majority wants to use to choose 12 of the members from the list to serve on the Committee.
Just a thought, something like midnight might be better to allow those who only log on during the evening to see the time limit.
As I said, it's just a suggestion and other posters might have different ideas.
Metalattakk
12-Dec-06, 05:22
Why the rush?
This is an important matter, and should be treated as such. Give it a few days, so that those who don't log in every minute of every day can have a say as well.
I will put myself forward for the group.
Mr P Cannop
12-Dec-06, 08:32
so does that mean am not on the comittee ??
I dont' think the comittee has been decided yet.
Mr P Cannop
12-Dec-06, 09:01
ok when does that happen ??
That's what they are trying to decide.
They want a vote to nominate the group by voting in a poll for all the people who volunteered.
porshiepoo
12-Dec-06, 09:18
Well for what it's worth it wasn't me that made any formal complaint about Dread whatsoever, so I'm clueless there.
Mettalattak, you have a valid point there re the time scale for this however personally I feel that we have to draw a line on this somewhere, and quick, in order to bring the forum back to some sort of order.
I imagine that most people know by now what is going on and let's not forget that this first vote would be only for the user group, I think we'd all agree that a mod vote would obviously take more time, but let's get this thing going before the forum falls apart.
Kaishowing
12-Dec-06, 10:35
If people wanted to moderate Dreadnought, a yellow card would have made him aware to mind the tone of his posts. (IMO)
His tone may have been over the mark, but his general wish was for just a fair and open process in selection of the U.G. and future Modertors.
It makes me wonder what exactly he got a 3 month ban for? Was it soley his off-colour remarks or his vocal opposition to just paying lip-service to the 'clean sweep' promise?
Like I said, a yellow card would have reminded him to tone down his posts while still allowing a point of view from a minority standpoint.
For some it'll look just like an official gag to make life easy for them.
The sooner this U.G. is set up the better when people can judge matters on the examples set.
I have just appeared this morning to see what has happened and i have never seen such a load of squabbling iin my entire life. SIX pages since 6 o clock last night... What ON EARTH are some of you thinking of?
There is to be a group to take the forum forward - whether it includes moderators or not is immaterial.
Once in another life i was responsible for the set up and running of a key government programme, it involved including and working with a whole range of organisations and it wasnt as hard as this appears to be.
Like mad pict I have been a mod since August and a user since about 1999. I dont think i have done anything to be ashamed of nor to apologise for. Thats it. I am who i am and what you see on here is pretty much what you get folks - thats it.
Someone needs to make a decision and this squabbling needs to stop. Those of you squabbling should all read over your posts and frankly you should be feeling faintly ridiculous that you have made this so difficult for Porshiepoo.
Kaishowing
12-Dec-06, 11:09
Someone needs to make a decision and this squabbling needs to stop. You should all read over your posts and frankly you should be feeling faintly ridiculous that you have made this so difficult for Porshiepoo. This carry on needs to stop and stop now.
Are you saying that with your Moderator hat on, or your User hat?
Why is it everytime you post it sounds like a kindergarten teacher telling-off a scallywag or two?
I agree that a decision is needed soon, but the manner of making that decision is just as important (or even more so) than the outcome.
Nobody wants to delay the return to normal here, but unless things are done correctly the horrible mess of the last few days will have been pointless, and it'll just be a matter of time until it all happens again.
porshiepoo
12-Dec-06, 11:12
Originally I was going to choose 12 names from those interested and be done with it, however I've now put my name forward as an interested party so obviously can not take part in any way with the voting etc.
I guess we need someone - who isn't on the list - to step up and try to sort out some kind of voting system.
Kaishowing, if I've learnt anything over the last few days it's to not just see one side of the story as far as mods and banning etc are concerned.
Dreadnoughts opinions were as valid as the enxt persons, I don't think anyone is disputing that, however it just seemed that his way of getting them across was never ending and did in fact seem to antagonise and set us back. Not because we don't agree with his opinions but because he just seemed so set in the way that he wanted this to go that he wasn't open to any opinions that didn't reflect his own.
Rightly or wrongly I suspect that this may now go forward quite quickly and easily with the temporary abscence of Dreadnought, although I'm sure he'll have much to say when he gets back.
So guys, can we at least agree on a cut off time for volunteers? How does 8pm tonight sound?
Does anyone have any ideas about putting this to vote? How many votes do we all get?
Should we just have the people that have volunteered and not the ones that have been elected by others? Personally I think thats the only way to go, if a person wants to be counted then they should have themselves listed on here?
Quick guys, lets get this going while it's still quiet. :lol:
ok 2 things,
1 porshiepoo, remember you can NEVER please eveyone! you need to do what you feel is right in the way of who to pick. I am guessing Colin picked you because he feels you believe in doing what is right etc.. don't listen to too many people, you will get confused!
about dreadnought ban, again people remember we don't see everything. maybe he send a nasty pm? maybe who knows! just don't assume...
Colin Manson
12-Dec-06, 11:14
Like I said, a yellow card would have reminded him to tone down his posts while still allowing a point of view from a minority standpoint.
He was reminded nearly every second thread, he was reported by not one, not two but by four members for two different posts.
I made allowances until I posted my explanation but at the end of it I said
I will leave this post open for comments but I do ask that replies are measured and that you consider what I have said.
That clearly covered all threads on this topic yet Dreadnought decided to go out of his way to flame, troll and Insult other members. He was pulled up by some of his fellow members but still be didn't take heed.
Even after saying all that the points that I gave him for the two different posts wouldn't have put him over the limit but he already had points for swearing previously.
No matter what the U.G. does I will not allow that kind of posting on this forum, I'm sure that the vast majority of users would agree with me.
I dont have a moderator hat and maybe i sound like a kindergarten teacher cos maybe just maybe i am one!!!!;)
I post as a user - i moderate as a moderator. If i issue an infraction then i do it as a mod - if i post i do it as me and i said what you see is what you get - actually kaishowing i sound like my mother and thats even more scary than being a kindergarten teacher!!!!:eek:
To be honest the squabbling that has gone on here is worse than anything in a nursery playground!!!!
Quick guys, lets get this going while it's still quiet. :lol:
Youre so hopeful porshie.
I would go with the picking of the volunteers, If the group demands a vote then list the names and we get three votes each. The top 12 then get selected. 12 votes each is maybe a bit unwieldy.
weeboyagee
12-Dec-06, 11:21
Squidge, darling - with the greatest of respect I am not quite sure (probably for the frist time) quite how to take your lecture :confused:
There is obvious squabbling going on granted, but at the risk of tarring everyone with the same brush there are a few of us that stayed on here well into the small hours of the morning watching what was going on and making some sort of posting in a manner to steer this whole situation.
Like it or lump it there are members right now who are venting quite a lot of frustration that we have never seen quite the like of before. Some of us are involved trying to referee, some are down right annoyed and are fighting their case to various degrees and some have done so and then left.
With porshiepoo nominated but not at the helm for 6 pages whilst (like it or not) the members cascaded with on and off the topic posts the few of us that were here to watch got frustrated with an extreme lack of progress by any or all the "powers" that be.
Kaishowing eventually took the initiative and started the poll which for my money has been the best information provider in this whole situation so far.
No-one wants the squabbling to continue - and that most definitely includes me. But what have we got so far? No user group, no definitive list of volunteers considering people not wanting or wanting mods to be included - even though Colin has said they won't be included, we are aware that mods will be on a different side of the table in reviewing this whole thing and the rest of us will make representation through the user group which quite frankly rests uncomfortably with me not because of how I am personally persuaded but because of what I see in the postings and the vote that Kaishowing has made to date.
Lets see now. The poll at this moment shows that there is a split - with a fair amount not caring just wanting the whole thing to calm down. So I assume (rightly or wrongly) that they will be happy so long as the whole thing does calm down. That leaves the two other most voted for points as the remainder to consider for any resolve and unfortunately, whether Colin likes it or not, the confirmation of what I have been picking up here has been bourne out in the vote - the majority of the remaining options do not want mods included in the user group - I personally disagree with this but that's the vote, I think it is wrong because the mods like it or lump it do a thankless task and have a fair amount of representation to make as a user also.
Now if I were a politician I would bet my bottom dollar that these people would be equally uncomfortable with the continued "them and us" review that the two sides of the table representation is going to make if we go with the mods and user group coming at it from their different angles - better not to have the mods involved at all to save any retribution. If I were a mod and weren't included in the U.G. I would be reluctant to make any other form of representation - you were not designated as a mod to be put in a different boat on the org from the rest of us - mainly to help administrate the site.
And since the poll, for the record, there have continued to be lectures, tellings-off, reprimands, suspensions, people leaving and sod all progress to date.
How about someone now turning round and categorically stating a) are we going to use the poll (I say yes) to help with the next step, or not b) are we going to consider any of the representations made in these pages considering a lot of it is not what the admin want as the way forward and c) when is that next step going to take place (sooner rather than later I hope and certainly no later than the end of today.)?
I apologise if I have come over just a tad frustrated in this post but the lecturing can be as unhelpful as the one liners at times.
You know I really love you squidge - it's just that you haven't been in the Keg to support us recently ;)
Its ok
I already amended it to target it more effectively at those of us who have been the squabblers. SIX pages though WBG - SIX pages.
Its frustrating and difficult to make sense out of it but there are clearly those voices of reason and they need to be allowed to make calm and coherent points without being heckled
Colin Manson
12-Dec-06, 11:34
Now I'm confused what exactly are the options again?
Are we talking about the poll created by Kaishowing or the poll to vote in members of the usergroup?
Poll asks about mods included or not in the usergroup but does that cover them as part of the group or does it infer that they are incuded or not in the whole process?
Option C is down to Porshie and I think she has already stated a time.
Kaishowing
12-Dec-06, 11:37
.....Not because we don't agree with his opinions but because....
Sounds like you discussed Dreadnought's post with Moderators/Admin and made a decision yourselves to gag him.
Sorry, but that's the way it's looking.
I'd expect Mod's and Admin to wade in here.
Perception is everything.
....I suspect that this may now go forward quite quickly and easily with the temporary abscence of Dreadnought...
Funny how that happens when free speech is removed!
As for not allowing objectionable posts, fair enough. On a forum such as this above normal moderating levels should be in place, but I still think a yellow card would have served just as well as a ban. To exclude someone who was so vocal in the manner of the setting up of the U.G. looks bad.
That aside, using the same criteria used for Dreadnought's ban, some others should be joining him, but I guess it's all down to who you know.
Let me pose a question...If you believed something 100%, would you stay quiet even when the tide of opinion was against you?
If the answer is yes, then look to your own integrity.
And Fluff....I am assured no PM's were sent.
porshiepoo
12-Dec-06, 11:53
[quote=Kaishowing;171584]Sounds like you discussed Dreadnought's post with Moderators/Admin and made a decision yourselves to gag him.
Sorry, but that's the way it's looking.
This is the one and only time I intend to defend myself on this point.
The WE bit in my post meant myself and a few others.
Anyone who really knows me and how I've posted in the past will know that I'm gobby, opinionated and will argue with the rest of em (god, this is supposed to be a defence lol) but never have I made a complaint about anyones behaviour on this forum or for any other matter. If I have something to say I'll say it directly to them through the thread. (I've tried the pm thing but it just makes matter worse in my experience)
Now if anyone wants to convince themselves and others that I made a complaint against dreadnought then so be it, however, nothing could be further from the truth.
I'd expect Mod's and Admin to wade in here.
Perception is everything.
Please stop it! This is getting us nowhere. We have to pull the plug on the 'them and us' conspiracy theory sometime.
Funny how that happens when free speech is removed!
We all have the benefit of free speech, it's how we choose to use it that matters - constructively or distructively.
I'll say again Dreadnoughts opinions were valid but his constant posting of the same statement over and over and over again just wasn't getting us anywhere.
As for not allowing objectionable posts, fair enough. On a forum such as this above normal moderating levels should be in place, but I still think a yellow card would have served just as well as a ban. To exclude someone who was so vocal in the manner of the setting up of the U.G. looks bad.
Only if we want it to look bad.
I can see it for what it was. Dread was warned of his posting and he chose to ignore it - maybe he wanted this exact outcome - he wasn't getting himself heard in the thread so what better way to draw attention than to be a matyr to his cause?
I'm not accusing him of that I'm merely thinking aloud.
That aside, using the same criteria used for Dreadnought's ban, some others should be joining him, but I guess it's all down to who you know.
And after what I've seen the last few days, it should be down to you know who.
Let me pose a question...If you believed something 100%, would you stay quiet even when the tide of opinion was against you?
If the answer is yes, then look to your own integrity.
Let me pose you a question.... If you believed in something 100% would you do your damndest to upset the apple cart or you would you look constructively at ways of achieving that end that is in the best interests of everyone, rather than yourself.
.
weeboyagee
12-Dec-06, 12:00
Now I'm confused what exactly are the options again?
Are we talking about the poll created by Kaishowing or the poll to vote in members of the usergroup?
The vote created by Kaishowing following the posts that we had to endure pages 6-10 of this thread.
Don't care = 23 at the moment so they're happy so long as it gets sorted out and calms down, U.G. with no mods = 21, greated than the 15 that want the mods to be included.
Poll asks about mods included or not in the usergroup but does that cover them as part of the group or does it infer that they are incuded or not in the whole process?
The poll I believe was held to establish whether the mods should be in the user group or not. Colin, you clarified the mods involvement in your post that followed the creation of the poll. Since we are all clear about the fact that you wanted the mods involved on the "other side of the table" (I apologise for the crudeness of how I am putting that) I believe an understanding of how comfortable everyone would be with that would need to be ascertained. I voted for the mods to be included in the U.G. so I wouldn't be happy for them to be in a separate group, and that I believe is a good example of how a decision wouldn't be able to be made lightly on the mods being a separate review group but then again I am only one member.
Option C is down to Porshie and I think she has already stated a time.
How can porshie relinquish the task and yet undertake it. Porshie - can you clarify? Are you back leading this or not - if you are, then lead it. (In the nicest of ways ;)) You're bang on with the time - although the poll closes just after 9 tonight and I think that it would be at least courteous to consider what the members have said.
Colin Manson
12-Dec-06, 12:14
The setup as I see it....
There is no table.
The usergroup will decide what it wants to pursue not the admin or the mods.
Myself and Niall will try and be on hand to answer any questions about the forum system and to offer opinion should it be requested.
Once we have agreed the agenda we can progress onto the discussions. Example - Usergroup discussing rule changes with Admin, Admin + Moderators giving feedback on the problems or the system as it is and how it may be affected by the suggested changes.
Hopefully this process will lead to a refined set of rules that - Work for the users, are easier to apply by the Mods and make life a whole lot easier for the Admin.
Creating rules without having the experience of implementing them would be very difficult, that's what has happened since the beginning and you've seen how easy it is for things to break down in certain situations.
I long time ago I created a usergroup to help test out a beta version of phpBB, I learned and I think the users did as well that it's difficult to come up with workable suggestions when you don't know the ins and outs of moderating a forum. That is why I'm suggesting this hopefully improved method. You still need Users to find out what the problems are on their side but you also need mods to express the problems encountered from their side.
It's a bit rambling but I've been awake for a long time and I need to go to my bed, if only these guys would come with my replacement fridge freezer [evil]
What makes me laugh is admin and you porshie ask for the orgers views on the matter. Yet when we make our views know they are dismissed straight away.[disgust]
What makes me laugh is admin and you porshie ask for the orgers views on the matter. Yet when we make our views know they are dismissed straight away.[disgust]
Don't you think the problem is that everyone is giving pages of views on the matter, but accomplishing nothing.
Good grief.........all we are doing is trying to elect a user group!
If that is producing all this verbosity and arguing, how on earth are we ever going to come to any conclusions about the way the forum can be run to suit everybody?
Read Colin's post.......seems sensible to me.
Kaishowing
12-Dec-06, 12:25
[quote=porshiepoo;171593]
...The WE bit in my post meant myself and a few others...
And did those 'others' happen to be Moderators or Admin??
[quote=porshiepoo;171593]
Now if anyone wants to convince themselves and others that I made a complaint against dreadnought then so be it, however, nothing could be further from the truth.
I never said that you 'officially' complained...rather you griped in the chatroom about 'spheres of influence' to people who may have been more likely to drop a heavy ban upon him for a convenient reason. (Swearing I think the reason was......3 months for that? I hope these excessive penalties are discussed within the U.G. at some point.)
As for the comments of conspiracy theories...I'll leave that to those who are more paranoid to ponder with the voices....
For myself, I see a system in place where people who were installed as part of that system keep ignoring that only by a 100% clean sweep of the system can this be avoided in the future.
I'm sure that most have the best of intentions, but there are some who see this whole episode as nothing more than 'a storm in a teacup', and not the intergral issue of lack of trust of the system itself that it has become.
Those who continue to marginalise this are just as much a danger to the future of this forum as not setting up the new system 100% in the open and from scratch.
[quote=porshiepoo;171593]Let me pose you a question.... If you believed in something 100% would you do your damndest to upset the apple cart or you would you look constructively at ways of achieving that end that is in the best interests of everyone, rather than yourself.
It depends if the applecart needed upsetting or not....I'm trying not to say 'rotton apples' in reference to people as I belive that's a bit strong, but to carry on your analogy whats the point in repacking the applecart with rotton apples?
I still dont see what the problem is about running a poll to quickly elect the U.G. members to get this process up and moving. I'm not trying to be deliberately obstructive, I would have thought that as the U.G are to represent the users interests, then it should be the users who decide who represents them.
I would also mention about Moderators not being part of the U.G. but that's been covered by Colin on more than one post.
Don't you think the problem is that everyone is giving pages of views on the matter, but accomplishing nothing.
Good grief.........all we are doing is trying to elect a user group!
If that is producing all this verbosity and arguing, how on earth are we ever going to come to any conclusions about the way the forum can be run to suit everybody?
Read Colin's post.......seems sensible to me.
No the problem is that they only listen what they want to and don't like when people have a different opinion. :eek:
Davie MacLeod
12-Dec-06, 12:31
In the thread for the proposed UG to move forward there have been 54 individual members posted ( at the time of writing), maybe take away misters Fernie and Manson due to their position with CCWS and that’s 52 posters from 1,105 active members.
Wonder what the other 1,051 think or even the 1,951 registered inactive members.
Thankfully it would seem that the majority is for having a message board forum and when you study the various categories on the boards they are appreciated and used.
Therefore why not dispense with GENERAL and have the others used more.
I see the discussion/thread (the plug in) that started all this as being a technical subject anyway and maybe a better environment to have discussed it.
The present “thread” about user groups is that not discussable in Chat rooms category and maybe general chat, mod complains etc. could be discussed there after this.
Could recommendations cover subjects like where to put the next supermarket, who in .org would make the best wiffie Prime Minister? Or is it recommendable to have a women’s prison on the muckle skerries?
Could members have a not a buddy list so that their thread is discussed with like minded members. Instead of greetan cause your blocked just start your own thread with different views and contributions added by those you have not excluded. Of course this would be moderated!
I said them and us, well there are more of them watching than the puckle saying and the ones that have only made one contribution, some of which seems reasonable to bring into consideration has been lost in the continuous battle of the other posters arguing about the merits of their posts, and the single contribution lost like non entities whilst the big guns argue out the toss and every word enflamed to explanation and increasing mistrust.
What for? Is it not agreeable to have a moderated forum and the improvements considered and tested over the coming weeks/months so it runs to everyone’s likening and in an acceptable way for the CCWS?
Whatever way I hope the interest categories continue, where else on the net can you discuss religion, politics and mating other than in genealogy…………….
I’ll make no further statement (heard that on scotsport last night and thought it sounded right posh) and make no apology for any spellin mistakes, due to there being no spell checker on a commodore 64.
weeboyagee
12-Dec-06, 12:35
The setup as I see it....There is no table.
It was never my intention that Mods should be part of this group, they will be on the opposite side of the table....
There's the table.
The usergroup will decide what it wants to pursue not the admin or the mods.
and admin will listen to both sides
The idea being that the both sides can contribute to creating a system that works for the Mods (whoever may end up in that post) and that it satisfies the majority of the users.
In all those posts you talk about "sides" Colin, of a "table" you say doesn't exist. You are not going to achieve what you are trying to do by saying one thing and then saying you didn't say it. I am very much not trying to wind you up, better me pointing it out before the rest who are more irrate start picking on it. I used your own words in my previous post and I still apologise for the crudeness of the way I am putting it over.
Myself and Niall will try and be on hand to answer any questions about the forum system and to offer opinion should it be requested.
Given the result of the poll to date this is a great idea. However, I would allow our mods to take a rest and back seat from the flack that this will bring about - I have no doubt in my mind that until the user group presents, the mods will be the subject of many a silver nibbed pen yet (or computer keyboard), unfortuntately.
Once we have agreed the agenda we can progress onto the discussions. Example - Usergroup discussing rule changes with Admin, Admin + Moderators giving feedback on the problems or the system as it is and how it may be affected by the suggested changes.
Hopefully this process will lead to a refined set of rules that - Work for the users, are easier to apply by the Mods and make life a whole lot easier for the Admin.
Creating rules without having the experience of implementing them would be very difficult, that's what has happened since the beginning and you've seen how easy it is for things to break down in certain situations.
I long time ago I created a usergroup to help test out a beta version of phpBB, I learned and I think the users did as well that it's difficult to come up with workable suggestions when you don't know the ins and outs of moderating a forum. That is why I'm suggesting this hopefully improved method. You still need Users to find out what the problems are on their side but you also need mods to express the problems encountered from their side.
It's a bit rambling but I've been awake for a long time and I need to go to my bed, if only these guys would come with my replacement fridge freezer
Thoroughly agree with the rest of the post! And aye,... get to your bed right enough ;) You'll feel the better for it! Although I didn't get much sleep myself last night! :D
Treat the members and users like children and they will behave as children! [disgust] Treat them as equals and not like trash on the sole of your shoe and you may get somewhere! I am a teacher I am this I am that I for one am tired of hearing that rubbish. Someone who was a high standing person in the community used his letters after his name to over power me once all because I was right and he was wrong. I always respected him and looked up to him, but that day I turned around and told him "Do not talk down to me" then he said "were not going to fall out over this are we" we didnt fall out but he came to respect me more and I him as equals! After all that is what we are no one is lesser than and no-one is greater than! [disgust]
And did those 'others' happen to be Moderators or Admin??
Did she actually have to speak to anyone at all?
It was quite clear on the thread that many of us were unhappy with the way Dreadnought was repeating himself interminably........perhaps she was just meaning us.
I never said that you 'officially' complained...rather you griped in the chatroom about 'spheres of influence' to people who may have been more likely to drop a heavy ban upon him for a convenient reason. (Swearing I think the reason was......3 months for that? I hope these excessive penalties are discussed within the U.G. at some point.)
Do you know when the swearing points were applied to his account, or are you assuming that these have all been added since this furore started? Why should he be exempt from the moderation which applies to everyone else. From Colin's post, he appears to have had plenty warning of the path he was taking.
As for the comments of conspiracy theories...I'll leave that to those who are more paranoid to ponder with the voices....
For myself, I see a system in place where people who were installed as part of that system keep ignoring that only by a 100% clean sweep of the system can this be avoided in the future.
I'm sure that most have the best of intentions, but there are some who see this whole episode as nothing more than 'a storm in a teacup', and not the intergral issue of lack of trust of the system itself that it has become.
Those who continue to marginalise this are just as much a danger to the future of this forum as not setting up the new system 100% in the open and from scratch.
I'd have thought that is something to be discussed..........but in the meantime, moderators are still required, and the moderators' experience can only aid the user group in forming ideas which will work. No point in producing ideas which then prove to be unworkable/ unwieldy and generate a lot more of this same type of posting .
It depends if the applecart needed upsetting or not....I'm trying not to say 'rotton apples' in reference to people as I belive that's a bit strong, but to carry on your analogy whats the point in repacking the applecart with rotton apples?
I still dont see what the problem is about running a poll to quickly elect the U.G. members to get this process up and moving. I'm not trying to be deliberately obstructive, I would have thought that as the U.G are to represent the users interests, then it should be the users who decide who represents them.
I would also mention about Moderators not being part of the U.G. but that's been covered by Colin on more than one post.
Is there a problem that is not of our own 15 page making?
No the problem is that they only listen what they want to and don't like when people have a different opinion. :eek:
So what isn't sensible about Colin's way of doing it with the users group we set up.
Until we get one up and running, there is nothing for him to listen to, is there?
As far as I can see the moderators are advisory, as are Colin and Niall......because I, for one, wouldn't like willy-nilly change for change's sake!
Someone has to tell us what it is possible to accomplish!
I'd be surprised if any ideas are knocked back for any reason except that they are unworkable within this forum system.
Well said Oddquine, I think you spoke for many of us there. It seems to me that things are continuing in the right direction and we're going to end up with a board that anyone would be proud of.
Colin Manson
12-Dec-06, 12:55
I'm not worried about people picking me up for using different terminology during this thread.
As things evolve ideas change and the process becomes clearer, this isn't a novel, I haven't done a dozen drafts and nobody has proof read it for me. Always read the latest post because the rest is at best old news.
However, I would allow our mods to take a rest and back seat from the flack that this will bring about
Doing that would loose a great deal of experience that the mods have and there ideas about handling topics. I can't see how that would benefit anyone.
weeboyagee
12-Dec-06, 13:04
So what isn't sensible about Colin's way of doing it with the users group we set up.
Until we get one up and running, there is nothing for him to listen to, is there?
As far as I can see the moderators are advisory, as are Colin and Niall......because I, for one, wouldn't like willy-nilly change for change's sake!
Someone has to tell us what it is possible to accomplish!
I'd be surprised if any ideas are knocked back for any reason except that they are unworkable within this forum system.
You're spot on Oddquine. There's nothing wrong or not sensible with Colin's way of doing it with the users group, but we can all see (and the poll is currently detailing this) that there may be a problem if the way we "get it up and running" doesn't consider the members who may not be happy with the way it is proposed and are currently making representation to such an effect. Remember, this has all come about because of a fairly serious mishap. Like it or not, it will take some very careful consideration on how to implement action that will land up with the greater majority of all the orgs various colourful charaters (and less colourful characters ;)) to be happily back on board - I still re-iterate that there will always be those who will still niggle - it's in their nature but there is something more serious to be dealt with here. Whether I or you agree or not with their position and representations, they have a voice and as much as I agree with you about the sheer antagonism of reading and trawling dreadnoughts posts there are more than dreadnought with that (or varying degree of that) frame of mind.
Dave MacLeod - yip I take your point - but there are a lot of the membership who don't even bother with the forum, those who do but not on this thread and the greater majority who do not take part at all but watch and take it all in!
Kaishowing
12-Dec-06, 13:07
Do you know when the swearing points were applied to his account, or are you assuming that these have all been added since this furore started? Why should he be exempt from the moderation which applies to everyone else. From Colin's post, he appears to have had plenty warning of the path he was taking.
Considering that he was able to post here up until early this morning should tell you when the points were applied.
I don't suggest anyone should be exempt from moderation, but I do think that a 3 month ban is excessive...I won't harp on about the timing of the ban again, as I'll be accused of being a conspiracy theorist.
As for 'Dreadnought repeating himself interminably' he was stating a point of view, as were many others here. The only difference was that he alone (at that time,) seemed to be taking a particular standpoint in opposition to the proposed easy option in the method of setting up the U.G.
Perhaps he was repeating his standpoint over and over, but only because he was asked to justify his position so many times, or felt the need to remind people that they didn't have to follow the herd until a final decision is made.
That's all I'm saying on the subject of Deadnought, as he is more than capable of defending himself given the chance, and will happily do so if you track him down elsewhere.
I just hope people remember that this is a golden opportunity to shape the forum for the future, and that through decisions made now, users will create a forum that they truly deserve....for good or bad.
weeboyagee
12-Dec-06, 13:21
I'm not worried about people picking me up for using different terminology during this thread.
As things evolve ideas change and the process becomes clearer, this isn't a novel, I haven't done a dozen drafts and nobody has proof read it for me. Always read the latest post because the rest is at best old news.
Doing that would loose a great deal of experience that the mods have and there ideas about handling topics. I can't see how that would benefit anyone.
Colin,.... at the risk of landing up on the wrong side of the "argument", you may consider your post again. My opinion is that if you go ahead with including the mods then you risk a lot of resignations. If this doesn't bother you - say so now and let all those of that frame of mind leave now, be over and done with it and save us all a lot of time. The email I read was at best a poor reflection on communication and at worst exactly the kind of material that, after falling into the hands of someone who shouldn't have gotten it and shouldn't have done with it what they did with it, would spark the riot you ended up with.
The apologies were genuine, but it was clear that your problem was not going to go away. So your effective resolve had better be that - effective! (No threat intended).
I do not deny and fully uphold that our mods have great experience in the org - that is blatantly obvious in all my posts on this thread and I have had the joy of debating and becoming friends with most of them over the years. It therefore takes something for me to suggest that they take a back seat in this one. I am sure they would be quite happy to do so even though I would NOT be!
Include the mods if you wish, despite the poll. You will have your way and that is your privelege. For those of us who have stood the test of time with this thread because we believe it was serious enough to merit it, it is no Novel worth reading but to remember half of what we say goes a LONG way to helping us maintain an understanding of it. If you can't do that because you are busy (fully understandable) then consider the fact that those with the greater knowledge and yes, I would say understanding, are going to HELP you watch where others are going to pick you up with it when you post.
You're not under my fire by any means but a little appreciation for the help that some of us are offering would go a long way. I picked two points in general with your posts and offered 5 quotes to back up what I was saying - the rest of your post I referred to was great and I had no point to say other than to commend it. You have support, be sure that you keep it.
You're spot on Oddquine. There's nothing wrong or not sensible with Colin's way of doing it with the users group, but we can all see (and the poll is currently detailing this) that there may be a problem if the way we "get it up and running" doesn't consider the members who may not be happy with the way it is proposed and are currently making representation to such an effect. Remember, this has all come about because of a fairly serious mishap. Like it or not, it will take some very careful consideration on how to implement action that will land up with the greater majority of all the orgs various colourful charaters (and less colourful characters ;)) to be happily back on board - I still re-iterate that there will always be those who will still niggle - it's in their nature but there is something more serious to be dealt with here. Whether I or you agree or not with their position and representations, they have a voice and as much as I agree with you about the sheer antagonism of reading and trawling dreadnoughts posts there are more than dreadnought with that (or varying degree of that) frame of mind.
Dave MacLeod - yip I take your point - but there are a lot of the membership who don't even bother with the forum, those who do but not on this thread and the greater majority who do not take part at all but watch and take it all in!
I'm assuming that the user group will have members of all and varied opinions on it, and there can be compromise for the sake of the continuation of the forum.
For example, I can see the point of starting again with moderators, but I don't see that that should preclude any member from being nominated, and the current moderators are also members.
Colin,.... at the risk of landing up on the wrong side of the "argument", you may consider your post again. My opinion is that if you go ahead with including the mods then you risk a lot of resignations. If this doesn't bother you - say so now and let all those of that frame of mind leave now, be over and done with it and save us all a lot of time. The email I read was at best a poor reflection on communication and at worst exactly the kind of material that, after falling into the hands of someone who shouldn't have gotten it and shouldn't have done with it what they did with it, would spark the riot you ended up with.
The apologies were genuine, but it was clear that your problem was not going to go away. So your effective resolve had better be that - effective! (No threat intended).
I do not deny and fully uphold that our mods have great experience in the org - that is blatantly obvious in all my posts on this thread and I have had the joy of debating and becoming friends with most of them over the years. It therefore takes something for me to suggest that they take a back seat in this one. I am sure they would be quite happy to do so even though I would NOT be!
Include the mods if you wish, despite the poll. You will have your way and that is your privelege. For those of us who have stood the test of time with this thread because we believe it was serious enough to merit it, it is no Novel worth reading but to remember half of what we say goes a LONG way to helping us maintain an understanding of it. If you can't do that because you are busy (fully understandable) then consider the fact that those with the greater knowledge and yes, I would say understanding, are going to HELP you watch where others are going to pick you up with it when you post.
You're not under my fire by any means but a little appreciation for the help that some of us are offering would go a long way. I picked two points in general with your posts and offered 5 quotes to back up what I was saying - the rest of your post I referred to was great and I had no point to say other than to commend it. You have support, be sure that you keep it.
WBG, Aren't the mods simply in an advisory capacity to discuss the feasability of some of the moderating suggestions from the user group............or do you have a lot of people on your volunteer list who know how a forum is run/moderated and can calm down some of the more unrealistic aspirations?
porshiepoo
12-Dec-06, 13:29
Hopefully we've now all got that off our chests so once again can we make further steps toward progress?
Weeboyagee, whatever way we go there are going to be those that disagree, as you pointed out, so I'm happy to go with the majority and whichever way it goes I promise I won't be one of those that claim it's a fix.
You told me to 'lead' if thats what I'm here to do WBA, but you cannot lead someone who doesn't want to be led.
I stood down from the position of 'picking' 12 members and asked do be considered as a volunteer. As I am now on the volunteer list I do not think it would be just and fair for me to have any part in picking or starting a vote. I assume evryone agrees on this?
The whole thing is now too confusing. we are having to scroll back page after page to find out what the last general concensus was before the last argument, so perhaps someone could detail where we are at the moment so theres no need for endless back page reading?
Personally, I have no concern on the issue with current mods in the usergroup. I am happy to go with whatever is decided as it bothers me neither way. If this is off topic for this part as there is a vote elsewhere, I apologise.
I would suggest that someone who is not on the volunteer list should take the matter in hand and hopefully resolve it quickly, my sympathies go out to them.
If we don't sort this soon, I for one will be nagging Colin to do it for us.
This cannot continue
weeboyagee
12-Dec-06, 13:35
I'm assuming that the user group will have members of all and varied opinions on it, and there can be compromise for the sake of the continuation of the forum.
For example, I can see the point of starting again with moderators, but I don't see that that should preclude any member from being nominated, and the current moderators are also members.
Agreed absolutely. No problem with that one at all.
weeboyagee
12-Dec-06, 13:41
WBG, Aren't the mods simply in an advisory capacity to discuss the feasability of some of the moderating suggestions from the user group............or do you have a lot of people on your volunteer list who know how a forum is run/moderated and can calm down some of the more unrealistic aspirations?
The idea being that the both sides can contribute to creating a system that works for the Mods (whoever may end up in that post) and that it satisfies the majority of the users.
As I see it both mods and U.G. would be advisory. Admin would have final say - that's how it should be IMHO.
I have no volunteer list. I wouldn't know who would know how a forum would/should be run although I am sure one or two would have the same qualification as the current mods in terms of calming influence. And since I would dare to say that I know a lot of the mods and knew them at the time of their selection I don't think they would stop speaking to me if I said that some of them were as qualified as me or anyone else in being able to moderate a forum with the correct training from Colin and crew. :)
http://The email I read was at best a poor reflection on communication and at worst exactly the kind of material that, after falling into the hands of someone who shouldn't have gotten it and shouldn't have done with it what they did with it, would spark the riot you ended up with. (http://The%20email%20I%20read%20was%20at%20best%20a%20poo r%20reflection%20on%20communication%20and%20at%20w orst%20exactly%20the%20kind%20of%20material%20that ,%20after%20falling%20into%20the%20hands%20of%20so meone%20who%20shouldn%27t%20have%20gotten%20it%20a nd%20shouldn%27t%20have%20done%20with%20it%20what% 20they%20did%20with%20it,%20would%20spark%20the%20 riot%20you%20ended%20up%20with.)
Oh really and what would you have done with it? I could have said nothing and sat back and watched everything stagnate and members dissappear one by one as they were at the time. Most members that I know personally were saying before this all came to light "I cant be bothered with the org" I felt the same! Exactly the effect that the said plugins were supposed to create. And another thing even if the plugins werent being used the thoughts were there and being sent out phsycologically! What you think is what you get! I would suggest some positive thinking wouldnt go amiss! [disgust]
They created this all by themselves I just happened to be the unfortunate person who was in the right place at the right time or is that in the wrong place at the wrong time!
weeboyagee
12-Dec-06, 13:44
If we don't sort this soon, I for one will be nagging Colin to do it for us.
This cannot continue
Since you have qualified your position, Colin is the only one that can do it now. I trust he will take everything here into consideration. :)
We now wait.
As I see it both mods and U.G. would be advisory. Admin would have final say - that's how it should be IMHO.
I have no volunteer list. I wouldn't know who would know how a forum would/should be run although I am sure one or two would have the same qualification as the current mods in terms of calming influence. And since I would dare to say that I know a lot of the mods and knew them at the time of their selection I don't think they would stop speaking to me if I said that some of them were as qualified as me or anyone else in being able to moderate a forum with the correct training from Colin and crew. :)
Sorry, I put that badly...........I meant our volunteer list!
Admin should certainly have the final say, as they will have the work to implement any changes necessary.
If it's not too late, I'd like to throw my hat into the ring as a volunteer.
porshiepoo
12-Dec-06, 13:48
I think one of the big problems we have is that progress seems to be made but then a whole new bunch of people log on, have to quickly catch up with whats been said and then have to burn their fingers on the keyboard to get heard. So we end up back at square one.
Dare I say this - Eek! - someone in authority (sorry Colin) has to decide the way we ARE going to go forward. i.e. Tell us exactly what we're doing (voting etc), tell us the deadline and then that's it, the rest is up to us.
We're just never going to decide on what to do here. If we decide now that the deadline is 8pm, people will come on after and say thats not fair. So if we re-open it we'll just be back to the bickering and I for one cannot stand another 16 pages of this (Ineed me sleep).
If Colin opts for us to vote and tells us the deadline, end of, then surely it's only going to help?
Just a suggestion.
weeboyagee
12-Dec-06, 13:48
http://The email I read was at best a poor reflection on communication and at worst exactly the kind of material that, after falling into the hands of someone who shouldn't have gotten it and shouldn't have done with it what they did with it, would spark the riot you ended up with. (http://The%20email%20I%20read%20was%20at%20best%20a%20poo r%20reflection%20on%20communication%20and%20at%20w orst%20exactly%20the%20kind%20of%20material%20that ,%20after%20falling%20into%20the%20hands%20of%20so meone%20who%20shouldn%27t%20have%20gotten%20it%20a nd%20shouldn%27t%20have%20done%20with%20it%20what% 20they%20did%20with%20it,%20would%20spark%20the%20 riot%20you%20ended%20up%20with.)
Oh really and what would you have done with it? I could have said nothing and sat back and watched everything stagnate and members dissappear one by one as they were at the time. Most members that I know personally were saying before this all came to light "I cant be bothered with the org" I felt the same! Exactly the effect that the said plugins were supposed to create. And another thing even if the plugins werent being used the thoughts were there and being sent out phsycologically! What you think is what you get! I would suggest some positive thinking wouldnt go amiss! [disgust]
Sorry - not taking you up on this at all. Enough has been said - we're moving forward - my opinion has been aired. Mistakes were made all over the place and we are trying to resolve it not go back to the start of the whole issue. What happened before and after the email will be considered by the U.G. so that something like that doesn't happen again I'm sure. If you can't find comfort in that (which I hope you can) then I'm afraid I don't know what will be the resolve that will satsify you.
porshiepoo
12-Dec-06, 13:50
Since you have qualified your position, Colin is the only one that can do it now. I trust he will take everything here into consideration. :)
We now wait.
WBA we seem to be on the same wavelength at the mo.
I honestly didn't see that suggestion before I posted the exact same one. lol
All hail Colin! All hail Colin! :lol:
Ok, the list of VOLUNTEERS so far are:
Porshiepoo
Mr P Cannop
Ricco
Gogglebox
Weeboyagee
WeeBurd
Peedie
Elenna
JamieS
CrashBandicoot1979
Boozeburglar
IceBox
RockChick
Rheghead
Sam
Calish6
Tristan
Oddquine
Praetorian
I apologies if I missed anyone out!!
weeboyagee
12-Dec-06, 13:51
I think one of the big problems we have is that progress seems to be made but then a whole new bunch of people log on, have to quickly catch up with whats been said and then have to burn their fingers on the keyboard to get heard. So we end up back at square one.
Dare I say this - Eek! - someone in authority (sorry Colin) has to decide the way we ARE going to go forward. i.e. Tell us exactly what we're doing (voting etc), tell us the deadline and then that's it, the rest is up to us.
We're just never going to decide on what to do here. If we decide now that the deadline is 8pm, people will come on after and say thats not fair. So if we re-open it we'll just be back to the bickering and I for one cannot stand another 16 pages of this (Ineed me sleep).
If Colin opts for us to vote and tells us the deadline, end of, then surely it's only going to help?
Just a suggestion.
I agree. Earlier in the posts I suggested locking all the thread of this manner to "time out" and then move forward.
Seems like that's the only solution to stop the catch up and start again situation happening again,.....and again,.... and again,.......yawn.....
Metalattakk
12-Dec-06, 13:55
Ok, the list of VOLUNTEERS so far are:
Porshiepoo
Mr P Cannop
Ricco
Gogglebox
Weeboyagee
WeeBurd
Peedie
Elenna
JamieS
CrashBandicoot1979
Boozeburglar
IceBox
RockChick
Rheghead
Golach
Sam
Calish6
Tristan
I apologies if I missed anyone out!!
Yep, you missed Oddquine who volunteered just short ago.
Yep, you missed Oddquine who volunteered just short ago.
Have now added Oddquine.
Thanks Metalattakk
Sorry - not taking you up on this at all. Enough has been said - we're moving forward - my opinion has been aired. Mistakes were made all over the place and we are trying to resolve it not go back to the start of the whole issue. What happened before and after the email will be considered by the U.G. so that something like that doesn't happen again I'm sure. If you can't find comfort in that (which I hope you can) then I'm afraid I don't know what will be the resolve that will satsify you.
You shouldnt have said what you said then! [disgust] I happen to have an opinion also and I am not the one seeking comfort at all my conscience is quite clear! :roll:
weeboyagee
12-Dec-06, 14:07
You shouldnt have said what you said then! [disgust] I happen to have an opinion also and I am not the one seeking comfort at all my conscience is quite clear! :roll:
My apologies, I read the post again and have fallen into the same trap as I have been trying to avoid. I shouldn't have said it to avoid antagonising anyone including yourself regardless of my opinion or not. My apologies.
WBG
Ive changed my mind. Its not the U.N. thats needed round here its Super-nanny.
Colin can we please have a time table drawn up?
How does names put forward for the new group cut off time midnight tonight sound?
If colin or someone technical could then draw up a poll for users to vote on, say 4 votes per user as to who should be on this group? Deadline for this vote , say midnight saturday?
If a section could then be started for the lucky? chosen 12? to be able to use , but all members of the org be able to read ,to be set up as soon as possible after saturdays deadline?
If a chairperson/leader/spokesperson for this group is recquired let the 12 new members vote/sort it out themselves.
These are only my personal ideas , but the way i see it until a timetable is set up and action starts this is just gonna keep on going round in circles.
porshiepoo
12-Dec-06, 14:11
Ive changed my mind. Its not the U.N. thats needed round here its Super-nanny.
Colin can we please have a time table drawn up?
How does names put forward for the new group cut off time midnight tonight sound?
If colin or someone technical could then draw up a poll for users to vote on, say 4 votes per user as to who should be on this group? Deadline for this vote , say midnight saturday?
If a section could then be started for the lucky? chosen 12? to be able to use , but all members of the org be able to read ,to be set up as soon as possible after saturdays deadline?
If a chairperson/leader/spokesperson for this group is recquired let the 12 new members vote/sort it out themselves.
These are only my personal ideas , but the way i see it until a timetable is set up and action starts this is just gonna keep on going round in circles.
I think we're all waiting anxiously to hear from Colin.
But your suggestions are spot on. :) Yay!!!!!!!!
Kaishowing
12-Dec-06, 14:24
I think we're all waiting anxiously to hear from Colin.
But your suggestions are spot on. :) Yay!!!!!!!!
I think that's pretty much what was wanted from post #1
A fair open voting system.
Thats all.
Everything else was the cart before the horse.
Are you saying that with your Moderator hat on, or your User hat?
]
You forgot the common sense hat.
This thread is a serpent eating it's tail.
Kaishowing, many people felt uncomfortable at Dreadnoughts posting and expressed that publically. Several seem to have expressed that formally as well. As the saying goes, I will defend to the death his right to express himself ( and my right to disagree) as long as there is respect for the people reading those opinions and as long as they are within the rules of use of this forum. His right to expression does not superseed the way he was making so many feel. "Where one persons liberties/rights begin, those of another ends"
Praetorian
12-Dec-06, 18:51
I put my name forward - Who is actually running with this list?
I put my name forward - Who is actually running with this list?
Sorry praetorian i have put your name on the list now.
We are waiting for Colin to come and put up a poll for the voting to begin.
Boozeburglar
12-Dec-06, 19:32
Even after saying all that the points that I gave him for the two different posts wouldn't have put him over the limit but he already had points for swearing previously.
I am assuming the points you mention were incurred after you decided to declare an amnesty on all infractions?
I'm willing to forgive and forget even if some of the users aren't willing to do that.
I think one of the actions on our part would be an amnesty for all Infractions (I'll delete all the Infractions and warnings that have ever been issued) and I'd hope that those who left recently would consider coming back, they are more than welcome.
If not, hopefully we could see some of that generous spirit offered out to Dreadnought.
Its frustrating and difficult to make sense out of it but there are clearly those voices of reason and they need to be allowed to make calm and coherent points without being heckled
Perhaps there could be a per member limit for posts in some threads so each member would be minded to stick to the subject in hand lest they lose the chance to get their oar in?
Best wishes in steering the whole thing forward anyway.
Colin Manson
12-Dec-06, 20:52
The cutoff time for volunteering is 20:00, once that time has passed I'll close this thread.
There is an issue with the poll option I can create as many options as required but I only have the ability to turn on multiple voting, not to control how many votes a user may make.
I can make it public to ensure that everyone just votes for 12 out of the list but it's not a great method. I could do a PM vote but I'm sure that would just cause controversy if the vote doesn't come out as expected.
Colin Manson
12-Dec-06, 20:59
I am assuming the points you mention were incurred after you decided to declare an amnesty on all infractions?
It was never declared only suggested and if it happens it will occur when the new rules/moderators etc are being put in place. Until that point we need to have some rules in place or chaos will ensue.
If not, hopefully we could see some of that generous spirit offered out to Dreadnought.
I have no issue with removing his infractions, they will all be removed at the same time.
Perhaps there could be a per member limit for posts in some threads so each member would be minded to stick to the subject in hand lest they lose the chance to get their oar in?
No options to do that and I'm reluctant to even look for a plug in for obvious reasons. We'll just have to take it as it comes, or make a covering rule for Suggestions type threads that will used to pass everyones ideas to the new usergroup.
Best wishes in steering the whole thing forward anyway.
Thanks I'll probably need it, I didn't want this to have to be run by us but I can see why it probably needs to, I'll try and stay clear as much of the running as I can and only managed where required.
This is all getting a bit petty...............
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.