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percy toboggan
10-Nov-06, 16:53
...much has been made today of Channel 4 newshound Jon Snow's refusal to wear a poppie onscreen.
He complains of a 'fascist regime' amongst broadcasting networks to force their presenters into wearing poppies.
This is nonsense. The wearng of a poppie is not compulsory and should always be seen as a visible marker of a voluntary gesture of giving. Snow says he wears one off screen, and contributes
to the British Legion fund. Enough said.
All our soldiers, especially the ones who sacrificed their lives for the good of us all did so to keep decisions like this a matter of personal choice.
I have a deep sense regard for fallen servicemen, and the wounded, and all those who survive unscathed and I owe them a debt. I always stick a quid or three in the tin and don the poppie, until it falls off.
There is no case whatsoever for making poppy's compulsory. It is unworkable anyway. Someone might suggest to so 'British'
muslims that the wearing of one is a good idea cause I've never seen one with the symbol pinned to their gear.Have you?
Perhaps I should re-phrase that to 'never noticed' one.
Sikhs wear them and Hindu's, and I know they shared many a battlefield with our lads in the past.
White or Red? It doesn't matter, either is a symbol that the wearer is a thinker, rather than a mere believer.
Anyone who enjoys British society and life the way it is now owes a debt to those who, often bravely, gave their lives to the cause of freedom.
The least any of us can do is lob a quid in a tin. Compulsory displays though are out of order. In my 'umble opinion.
(poppy or poppie? - I'm not sure.)
j4bberw0ck
10-Nov-06, 17:06
I think it could be argued that people in the public eye and especially those, like Jon Snow, being paid a huge amount of money for reading the news, should lead by example and so wear a poppy. Perhaps what he really objects to is being told he WILL do something; I don't know, of course.
But I do think that for something so important he should consider swallowing his pride and wearing one.
...much has been made today of Channel 4 newshound Jon Snow's refusal to wear a poppie onscreen.
He complains of a 'fascist regime' amongst broadcasting networks to force their presenters into wearing poppies.
This is nonsense. The wearng of a poppie is not compulsory and should always be seen as a visible marker of a voluntary gesture of giving. Snow says he wears one off screen, and contributes
to the British Legion fund. Enough said.
All our soldiers, especially the ones who sacrificed their lives for the good of us all did so to keep decisions like this a matter of personal choice.
I have a deep sense regard for fallen servicemen, and the wounded, and all those who survive unscathed and I owe them a debt. I always stick a quid or three in the tin and don the poppie, until it falls off.
There is no case whatsoever for making poppy's compulsory. It is unworkable anyway. Someone might suggest to so 'British'
muslims that the wearing of one is a good idea cause I've never seen one with the symbol pinned to their gear.Have you?
Perhaps I should re-phrase that to 'never noticed' one.
Sikhs wear them and Hindu's, and I know they shared many a battlefield with our lads in the past.
White or Red? It doesn't matter, either is a symbol that the wearer is a thinker, rather than a mere believer.
Anyone who enjoys British society and life the way it is now owes a debt to those who, often bravely, gave their lives to the cause of freedom.
The least any of us can do is lob a quid in a tin. Compulsory displays though are out of order. In my 'umble opinion.
(poppy or poppie? - I'm not sure.)
Agree totally with your message. See title for singular and plural!!
I find White poppies distasteful......and by the way where does the money go to from the sales of white poppies.
The white poppy business is simply silly and I suspect someone just wanting to make the news. Red poppies are a symbol of remembrance, nothing to do with glorifying war which is what the white poppy people are claiming. In fact just the opposite if they could be bothered to think about it.
There was another explanation for them on Question Time last night which I didn't know. Apparently poppies like ground that has been churned up which of course happened all over France in the war and is why, when the fighting stopped, masses of poppies suddenly appeared so they are seen also as a symbol of rebirth.
Jon Snow should swallow his pride.
Jon Snow should swallow his pride.
Why? Because you he should wear a poppy? As an ex-serviceman, I wear my poppy with pride but I also believe that what the men in WWI and II were ultimately fighting for was freedom from oppression. They were fighting so we could live our lives as free-thinking people.
I might not agree with Snow's decision to not wear a poppy but I respect his right to make his own decision.
Why? Because you he should wear a poppy? As an ex-serviceman, I wear my poppy with pride but I also believe that what the men in WWI and II were ultimately fighting for was freedom from oppression. They were fighting so we could live our lives as free-thinking people.
I might not agree with Snow's decision to not wear a poppy but I respect his right to make his own decision.
If he had some strong objection to wearing a poppy I might agree but he doesn't - he says it wears it privately so to refuse to wear it on air just because they're told to seems a bit childish. He also objects to Fiona Bruce wearing a cross so he's hardly standing up for freedom. I actually think it's not something that should be dictated as it's probably unnecessary. Most people wear one (although I always lose at least one because they're so badly made these days) and it certainly means more if it's voluntary. They all need to get over themselves.
There's a simple solution to his problem, let him join his non-displayed Poppy.
I might not agree with Snow's decision to not wear a poppy but I respect his right to make his own decision.
I am with you on this one, Midi, if the broadcasting company insists he wears it, why? What right have they to dictate to him, if your employer insisted you wear one, all hell would break out.
As long as he gives something towards the RBL and wears a poppy when he's not on screen who cares. I don't wear mine around the house. Is that any different really?
As long as he remembers those who fell in order that he has the choice to not do something then all is well. Perhaps he's worried it would clash with his tie?....
Famous for his colourful silk ties Jon now has to co-ordinate the colour of his socks too since the studio and set were introduced in January 1999.
I think it could be argued that people in the public eye and especially those, like Jon Snow, being paid a huge amount of money for reading the news, should lead by example and so wear a poppy. Perhaps what he really objects to is being told he WILL do something; I don't know, of course.
But I do think that for something so important he should consider swallowing his pride and wearing one.
Agree totally - and Jon Snow should be astute enough to realise what public reaction would be, before he took his stand........... which makes his decision all the more strange (and reprehensible)
Right........ a bit off-topic, but I have an issue with news reporters in war:
Look at how much coverage they give journalists/cameramen etc in the media if they are unfortunate enough to lose their life in conflict. They are even (in some instances) alloted a complete 30 min TV program in their honour.
Compare that with our armed forces personnel in the same situation.
Comments?
(I'll get my coat)
Maybe this needs to be run once a night.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtl5kmWrFLg
sassylass
10-Nov-06, 22:40
What a powerful tribute, it brought tears to my eyes.
pultneytooner
10-Nov-06, 22:43
Jon snow should have the choice to wear the poppy at a time of his choosing not others, it shouldn't be any other way.
Jon snow should have the choice to wear the poppy at a time of his choosing not others, it shouldn't be any other way.
No, his whole career is based upon "exposure" (he will have an agent that drums that into him). He should realise that in addition to checking the ratings to see how many people tune-in to see him, he has a duty (yes - duty) to maximise the effect of wearing a poppy............ In front of as big an audience as is possible.
If he refuses to wear a poppy but donates say, £1000 to the Earl Haig Fund - how does that compare to the exposure of him proudly wearing the poppy?
I would suggest that the latter is more effective.
As an analogy:
Bob Geldoff sits silent and personally donates £100,000 to alleviate the starving in Africa.
Bob Geldoff inspires/coerces/embarasses 5 million people to donate £1 each.
pultneytooner
10-Nov-06, 23:00
No, his whole career is based upon "exposure" (he will have an agent that drums that into him). He should realise that in addition to checking the ratings to see how many people tune-in to see him, he has a duty (yes - duty) to maximise the effect of wearing a poppy............ In front of as big an audience as is possible.
If he refuses to wear a poppy but donates say, £1000 to the Earl Haig Fund - how does that compare to the exposure of him proudly wearing the poppy?
I would suggest that the latter is more effective.
As an analogy:
Bob Geldoff sits silent and personally donates £100,000 to alleviate the starving in Africa.
Bob Geldoff inspires/coerces/embarasses 5 million people to donate £1 each.
If people don't realise what wearing the poppy is all about then you can hardly blame jon snow, try the education system, they are obviously not doing their job.
Bob geldof along with all the other obcenely paid stars should give all their millions to help various charities, okay I'd let them keep 1 million each to keep them going but thats all.
If people don't realise what wearing the poppy is all about then you can hardly blame jon snow, try the education system, they are obviously not doing their job.
Bob geldof along with all the other obcenely paid stars should give all their millions to help various charities, okay I'd let them keep 1 million each to keep them going but thats all.
Yes - I'd agree, there is the story that Princess Diana left nothing to charity in her will, only the use of her name.
It appears (publicly at least) that celebrities are loathe to part with actual wealth and a cynic might even say that it is seen as beneficial to them that they get associated with causes rather than silently donating sizable wealth.
Back to Jon Snow - I don't expect him to "educate" people, just to "remind" them.
I would like to defend Jon Snow's decision not to wear a poppy on television as it his freedom of choice to choose. However, I am not too clear as to his motives, one that I would favour was that newsreading should be a position of neutrality, whether real or perceived. To wear a poppy removes that neutrality even if it is to the extent of favoring one charity over another, in contrast with the popular view that it may be due to some political correctness. To be honest, I think it was a rebellious move by him towards his employer who it is widely believed to push the issue on to their employees.
Either way, it is his choice, his motives are his own and he isn't harming anybody by doing so.
As you can see, on the otherhand, I have the greatest pride in displaying my poppy as a sign of remembrance.
I believe something as important as thy symbol of the poppy should not be hijacked for personal, political or corporate means.
I don't agree with many (if any) of the political motives behind wars and especially the politicians who make those decisions.
However. the men and women who served and serve deserve our utmost respect for what they do: a poppy is for remembrance.
In Flanders Fields
In Flanders Fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)
Canadian Army
willowbankbear
11-Nov-06, 10:55
Jon Snow is being paid huge money & behaving like a spoiled brat, get him told or get him sacked. A disgrace[evil] [evil]
To me, it would make more sense if Jon Snow were to wear the Poppy at work and then exercise his freedom of choice by not wearing it away from work.
Many people have to wear a uniform, or have a dress code to follow, as part of their job. It is simply being professional to adhere to that as a mark of respect to the employer who is paying your wages. I cannot see how that affects your ability to express your true feelings, in any way you see fit, outwith the hours of "business"
A TRUE professional would be big enough to put internal squabbles to one side and think about what many other employees have to put up with in order to earn little over £5 an hour!!
(poppy or poppie? - I'm not sure.)
Poppiecock?
Is this similar to Tennis Elbow? ;o)
Just saw Jon Snow in the Lord Mayors Parade walking in support of Voluntary Service Overseas. Apparently he went to Africa and did such service. He is also involved in many other charitable causes at home and abroad. Wearing the opoppyis easy but living up to the sentiments is more difficult.
One can hardly call a popy a part of a work dress code. When signs up to a job they may need to accept a dress code but that certainly would not have happened in Jon Snow's case.
I alaways but a poppy, indeed ususally quite a few, but I seldom wear one. My father, mother and grandfather all served in WW11 and my Grandfather in WW!. I am named after an uncle killed in WW11. Still I take no offence at someone not wearing a poppy and I do not go myself to the local rememberance service but I remember and respect those who served and those who died.
Just like Christians who flaunt their Christianity wearing the popy does not make a person a better citizen and nor does not going to church make one a poorer Christian nor not wearing a poppy less of a good citizen.
Jon Snow has gone out there and done something for the World so maybe some of his critics should get of their bottoms and do likewise.
Wearing the opoppyis easy but living up to the sentiments is more difficult.
One can hardly call a popy a part of a work dress code.
Wearing the Poppy IS easy, that is why it is not asking much to expect someone to do it!!
If your employer asks you to wear a Poppy, in what way does that differ at all to them asking you to wear a tie?
When Jon Snow is on screen, he is representing the Channel and not himself. I said nothing about his stance making him less of a "good citizen", it simply makes him a less professional employee.
Wearing the Poppy IS easy, that is why it is not asking much to expect someone to do it!!
I'm sorry but your words sound like like a diktat with no brook for reason.
When Jon Snow is on screen, he is representing the Channel and not himself. I said nothing about his stance making him less of a "good citizen", it simply makes him a less professional employee.
I disagree, he shouldn't be representing anything, he is there to present the news, hopefully in a fair and impartial manner. Once you start representing something then your impartiality is compromised.
Wearing the Poppy IS easy, that is why it is not asking much to expect someone to do it!!
If your employer asks you to wear a Poppy, in what way does that differ at all to them asking you to wear a tie?
When Jon Snow is on screen, he is representing the Channel and not himself. I said nothing about his stance making him less of a "good citizen", it simply makes him a less professional employee.
If you really think that wearing a tie is the same as wearing a poppy it says it all and there is not point in continuing with this debate!
j4bberw0ck
11-Nov-06, 14:59
Once you start representing something then your impartiality is compromised.
Ouch. That's the BBC in a deep hole, then. :lol:
If you really think that wearing a tie is the same as wearing a poppy it says it all and there is not point in continuing with this debate!
Get a grip on yourself and stop trying to sound superior. I am talking about a contract between employer and employee here.
I am pretty sure that you do not know what is contained within Jon Snow's contract with his employer. It may well state that he has to wear a suitable standard of attire, potentially black ties, poppies etc could be deemed to be necessary for occasions where they are thought to be appropriate.
If you cannot follow your employer's instructions then you are not being professional, it is that simple.
I'm sorry but your words sound like like a diktat with no brook for reason.
I disagree, he shouldn't be representing anything, he is there to present the news, hopefully in a fair and impartial manner. Once you start representing something then your impartiality is compromised.
Mmm, I can't follow your logic Rheghead. He MUST be representing something and I consider it to be the Channel. THEY are paying the wages of all those reporters, writers, editors etc that prepare the script that Snow is reading out. The ideal of impartiality exists only in the imagination and perhaps in fairystories. Can you seriously believe that the Independent newspaper is truly representative of its title and that Independent candidates are totally impartial.
You miss my point on Snow and his poppy> He wears it outwith his work, so the actual poppy is obviously not something he has a problem with. I think HE is acting like a Diktat on this one ;o)
When getting ready for school this morning, my oldest lassie (she will be 7 on 22nd November) asked me about poppy day, as there was a bit on the tv news about it. So I gave her a quick 2 minute explanation, and of course she came back with all the questions about war, and why people had to fight and die etc. Anyway I told her about my Great Uncle who died at the Somme in the 1st World War (and whose body was never found), and my Granddad who lost his leg at Dunkirk. Anyway she came in crying after school because her mam never put money in her bag to allow her to buy a poppy, she also said that the school had a minutes silence at 1100hrs and they were told to think about soldiers etc that died – she told me she thought about her Great-Great Uncle…….I had to fight to hold back the tears.
Lest we forget. RIP.
pultneytooner
12-Nov-06, 21:17
When getting ready for school this morning, my oldest lassie (she will be 7 on 22nd November) asked me about poppy day, as there was a bit on the tv news about it. So I gave her a quick 2 minute explanation, and of course she came back with all the questions about war, and why people had to fight and die etc. Anyway I told her about my Great Uncle who died at the Somme in the 1st World War (and whose body was never found), and my Granddad who lost his leg at Dunkirk. Anyway she came in crying after school because her mam never put money in her bag to allow her to buy a poppy, she also said that the school had a minutes silence at 1100hrs and they were told to think about soldiers etc that died – she told me she thought about her Great-Great Uncle…….I had to fight to hold back the tears.
Lest we forget. RIP.
'Lest we forget', that's what it's all about, as long as there are people like yourself passing on information about the wars this country has fought in and reminding our young folk how much we owe these people then it matters little if jon snow wears a poppy for the cameras or not.
"favoring one charity"
As you can see, on the otherhand, I have the greatest pride in displaying my poppy as a sign of remembrance.
I am sure that you have merely mis-typed, but I would like to reinforce that Rememberence Day is not about a charity - it is about paying tribute to those that gave everything and allowed us to maintain the life that we enjoy today.
I think the two are tied together - without the Poppy Appeal the RBL would be short by about a third of their seventy five million pounds required each year to help those, affected by war and conflict, whilst in the service of their country. And the RBL is a charity.
The act of remembrance, buying a poppy and wearing it, observing the two minutes silence and by all of this, helping to support the worlds largest charity organisation, shows you are paying tribute.
I think the two are tied together - without the Poppy Appeal the RBL would be short by about a third of their seventy five million pounds required each year to help those, affected by war and conflict, whilst in the service of their country. And the RBL is a charity.
The act of remembrance, buying a poppy and wearing it, observing the two minutes silence and by all of this, helping to support the worlds largest charity organisation, shows you are paying tribute.
yes, I would agree - but Jon Snow does not show favouritism to a charity by wearing a poppy - he shows recognition for the sacrifices made.
A distinction that he is more than able to make, if challanged
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