View Full Version : If the bible was fake....
I know this is a bit random but what do you think would happen if the bible was discovered to be nothing but a very good novel? Would we have wars or singing and dancing? Or something in between? I think there would be global outrage for the christians. And all the other religions would laugh.... Lol. Would be nice to hear your views though.
I think religious factions would go crazy trying to deny it and there would be absolute outrage. Personally I don't know how I would take it, I am not religious but I think it would change my views a lot and would affect me in a many ways. It would be like someone pulling the rug out from beneath your feet.
I'm not religious either but i can see the consequences being huge for the ones who are. Whole countries could collapse!!! (ok mabey only the vatican but its still a thought.) What about other religions? How would they react? Christianity would lie (quite ironic when you think about it) of course but would others back it up as being fake?
I suppose they would have to back it up as false as their whole religious infrastructure would also collapse after all we all believe in the same god just in different forms (does that make sense) my brain isn't working so good got the flu yuck.
Yeah that makes perfect sense!!! I have tried to convey that thought to my friends for ages but they have never understood. But since we aren't religious then wouldnt this change our view on how we see god in different religions. If we were a specific religion then we would have a bias opinion?
Murdina Bug
04-Nov-06, 11:42
I think that anyone with a bit of common sense can understand that some 'expansion of the facts' (i.e. fiction) must have been involved in a collection of documents of this size and in the time period they were compiled. Add to that the various warpings made by individual relogious sects to make the 'rules' fit their doctrine and it becomes obvious that through time the bible, in whatever form, can not possibly be accurate. Even if there was a grain of truth in it to start with it is not something that I could personally ever base my life values on.
So, it already is fiction, but it suits those in charge of religion to keep it going.
Does that mean you dont think religious people have a bit of common sense? Lol. I fail to see why people feel so strongly about a book? They get all worked up when people say it isnt true. They even kill because of it? Its taking literature to the extreme.....
I think that anyone with a bit of common sense can understand that some 'expansion of the facts' (i.e. fiction) must have been involved in a collection of documents of this size and in the time period they were compiled. Add to that the various warpings made by individual relogious sects to make the 'rules' fit their doctrine and it becomes obvious that through time the bible, in whatever form, can not possibly be accurate. Even if there was a grain of truth in it to start with it is not something that I could personally ever base my life values on.
So, it already is fiction, but it suits those in charge of religion to keep it going.
Bible is a novel - an historical novel.
There is more than a grain of truth in it but also a lot of use of story telling to enable simpler forms of society in earlier times to understand the ideas.
Surprised Murdina Bug cannot personally base life values on the bible - as with all philosophies there will be aspects different individuals cannot adhere to but also most of the values are widely held - those values are held by virtually all religions and buy most people with no religion. And do not forget Christains, Jews and Moslems all worship the same God just that the son of God has not yet come for the Jews and the Moslems see Jesus as a prophet rather than the son of God.
The bible is good historical read even for the non-believer.
celtic 302
04-Nov-06, 13:03
Mr Me19, surely more than just the vatican (the whole countries post) will colapse. Many countries these days are based on there religous beliefs. I personally couldn't care less is they found out the bible was fake, ive been saying that all along...
There is some archaeological evidence to support certain events in the Bible, but these correlations tend to be restricted to the Old Testament. The Old Testament is a valuable historical resource for any historian who wants to research the history of the Middle East but it has to be remembered that it has been edited to support a religious ethos so some parts will have been changed over the millenia. Suffice to say, it is a history rather than the history of Palestine.
danc1ngwitch
04-Nov-06, 18:53
Everyone for their own, whatever helps to get u through this life as happy as possible. To find that the bible was false would ruin other religions and the people who depend on them. People do depend on them, but aslong as u give it ur all and beleive who can say IT'S false.
Kaishowing
04-Nov-06, 19:05
I dunno if it would have such an impact as all that to be honest..... Oh there may well be quite a few tsunami sized ripples around the world, but I think in the end Christians would just put it all down to a gigantic but literal test of faith.
There is even good reason to believe that by going right back to the Genesis even the location of Eden can be traced.
Remember, Troy was just the fairy tale told by the Ancient Greeks until somebody went and dug it up. And the more they dig up the more likely the basis for the Helen of Troy story appears to be.
OK, Helen of Troy and Adam and Eve may be just like some of the Characters and storylines in Brave Heart, put there to change a basic set of facts into an exciting and memorable tale.
Heroes and Villains? It depends on who “Spins” the Story and the way they want to present things.
There is even good reason to believe that by going right back to the Genesis even the location of Eden can be traced.
Remember, Troy was just the fairy tale told by the Ancient Greeks until somebody went and dug it up. And the more they dig up the more likely the basis for the Helen of Troy story appears to be.
OK, Helen of Troy and Adam and Eve may be just like some of the Characters and storylines in Brave Heart, put there to change a basic set of facts into an exciting and memorable tale.
Heroes and Villains? It depends on who “Spins” the Story and the way they want to present things.
Troy wasn't in the Bible. Just because Troy has been discovered that doesn't mean Eden will be.
Troy wasn't in the Bible. Just because Troy has been discovered that doesn't mean Eden will be.It won't be, certainly not in it's original form, it's under an urban area which is in the East of Turkey near to the borders with Iraq and Syria close to the sources of the Tigris and Euphrates. It is also near the sources of two other rivers one of which if I remember correctly flows into the Caspian Sea and the other into the Black Sea.
There is also fairly reasonable Archaeological back-up the locations in the story of Moses, who is in the Bible. There is a strong probability that they have found the Store Cities of the Pharaoh which are described in the Book of Moses.
Nineveh certainly exists and Babylonian texts confirm that the Jews were there at the time of Nebuchadnezzar.
The more sites that are found which are mentioned in the Old Testament, the more confirmation there is of at least the basis for the stories.
OK, there are no Blue Plaques saying “Moses slept here” to confirm that he himself existed, but as with Babylon, Egyptian History confirms the background to many of the Bible Stories in which they are involved.
I would make no claim that the details of some of the people named in the Bible or the detailed description of their actions has or ever will be proved because many were the stories of ordinary people.
Having said that, to go back to the idea behind the original question, Religious Beliefs are an act of Faith and by their very nature are not reliant on material things.
Even those who worship physical objects are expressing their Faith in the power they believe the object can exert.
So if there is overwhelming evidence to support the OT then that must mean that the NT is bunkum. Personally the jealous, mischievous, sado masochistic Yahweh seems more in keeping with what I see to be right.
Alice in Blunderland
04-Nov-06, 23:14
Ahhh so if the bible were to be considered a good story then would this not also make some of the Qu'ran to be a good story too.Are there not areas of similarity in both books?:confused So this would not only be a test of faith to the Christians :cool:
Ahhh so if the bible were to be considered a good story then would this not also make some of the Qu'ran to be a good story too.Are there not areas of similarity in both books?:confused So this would not only be a test of faith to the Christians :cool:
Islam is an offshoot of Judaism.
Not necessarily, Rheghead, YHWH, like any good parent or teacher, was demanding of obedience at the beginning but became less so as the need reduced. He was only harsh when his children strayed and would not heed His warnings not to go into danger. If I remember correctly He taught them at a very early stage that things such as Human Sacrifice were not acceptable. I rather think he was most severe when they strayed back in the direction of gods who still demanded such things.
Islam is an offshoot of Judaism.Steady, Rheghead, that's a bit dangerous even for me. Such talk could start World War Three! :lol:
Cedric Farthsbottom III
04-Nov-06, 23:43
Religion is in the eye of the beholder.The bible to some is true,to others fake.A neverending topic amongst others.Faith is strong,but if ye strike me doon Darth I shall become more powerful than ye could possibly imagine.
Alice in Blunderland
05-Nov-06, 00:02
Islam is an offshoot of Judaism.
Maybe but both books carry the same stories (if I can use that word) at the start and have simmilarities.:eek:
Dreadnought
05-Nov-06, 02:06
There is also fairly reasonable Archaeological back-up the locations in the story of Moses, who is in the Bible. There is a strong probability that they have found the Store Cities of the Pharaoh which are described in the Book of Moses.
Nineveh certainly exists and Babylonian texts confirm that the Jews were there at the time of Nebuchadnezzar.
The more sites that are found which are mentioned in the Old Testament, the more confirmation there is of at least the basis for the stories.
OK, there are no Blue Plaques saying “Moses slept here” to confirm that he himself existed, but as with Babylon, Egyptian History confirms the background to many of the Bible Stories in which they are involved.
You might find A Test Of Time: Pharoahs And Kings by David M Rohl an interesting read. It shows the archaeological evidence for the existence of Moses.
Steady, Rheghead, that's a bit dangerous even for me. Such talk could start World War Three! :lol:
Nevertheless, it is true. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all originate from the original religion of Abraham.
Kingetter
05-Nov-06, 02:08
I know this is a bit random but what do you think would happen if the bible was discovered to be nothing but a very good novel? Would we have wars or singing and dancing? Or something in between? I think there would be global outrage for the christians. And all the other religions would laugh.... Lol. Would be nice to hear your views though.
Discovered by whom?
What would you accept as proof?
If you were to class the Bible as Fiction, what would you replace it with?
Why would other religions laugh? The same might occur with their doctrines.
If you disregard the Bible, what would you turn on next to disprove?
The problem with hypotheses is that that is all they are. If is such a small word yet is a well used one.
Lastly, if you had it 'proved' to you that
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i102/OpenandShut/Fun/nonsensepigs0ra.jpg
what difference would it make?
Discovered by whom?
What would you accept as proof?
If you were to class the Bible as Fiction, what would you replace it with?
Why would other religions laugh? The same might occur with their doctrines.
If you disregard the Bible, what would you turn on next to disprove?
A more fundamental question would be, "What happens when rationality wins over superstition?"
Kingetter
05-Nov-06, 10:25
A more fundamental question would be, "What happens when rationality wins over superstition?"
And there will be more such questions. But hypothetical questions can only be answered with hypotheses - nothing will be proved or disproved in such cases.
Islam is an offshoot of Judaism.
The only thing Islam is an offshoot of is mans ability to keep deluding himself.
And there will be more such questions. But hypothetical questions can only be answered with hypotheses - nothing will be proved or disproved in such cases.
Yes, but all things can be proved possible or extremely improbable as in the case of superstition. For example if we pose a question of prove/disprove religion v science, we shamelessly imply a 50% agnostic parity, iow, we are already defaulting to an extremely elevated probability of superstition and religion.
Kingetter
05-Nov-06, 11:08
Yes, but all things can be proved possible or extremely improbable as in the case of superstition. For example if we pose a question of prove/disprove religion v science, we shamelessly imply a 50% agnostic parity, iow, we are already defaulting to an extremely elevated probability of superstition and religion.
Well I won't ask you to prove your statement for sure. I'm happy for folk to believe or not, but unhappy with a constant undermining without something to replace - which seems to me how this and a number of other threads seem to be about.
but unhappy with a constant undermining without something to replace.
IMO, the hole left by the previous occupant is more than filled by the application of rationality.
Kingetter
05-Nov-06, 11:23
IMO, the hole left by the previous occupant is more than filled by the application of rationality.
previous occupant ?:confused
Ah well, back to my cave of apathy.
I know this is a bit random but what do you think would happen if the bible was discovered to be nothing but a very good novel? Would we have wars or singing and dancing? Or something in between? I think there would be global outrage for the christians. And all the other religions would laugh.... Lol. Would be nice to hear your views though.
Would many even care or notice if it was proven to be false? IMO it would not be earth shattering, that is MY personal view, in this day and age I have to say that I respect all the views of Christians who hold the Bible as the true book. Though I dont agree with them.
I know this is a bit random but what do you think would happen if the bible was discovered to be nothing but a very good novel? Would we have wars or singing and dancing? Or something in between? I think there would be global outrage for the christians. And all the other religions would laugh.... Lol. Would be nice to hear your views though.
Since a lot of the major religions are based on the old testament - no, I don't think they would be laughing!
Would many even care or notice if it was proven to be false? IMO it would not be earth shattering, that is MY personal view, in this day and age I have to say that I respect all the views of Christians who hold the Bible as the true book. Though I dont agree with them.
But what is the defination of true? The bible is SO open to interpretation which is proved by so many denominations, all reading it differently, all thinking their version is TRUE.
Ok, so can someone tell me how on earth Adam and Eve were supposed to have started mankind.......Did'nt they have two sons...and even if they had a daughter...would that not have been either incest or child abuse !!!!!
What about all the archaeological finds that have shown different stages in human and animal evolution!!
I believe that the bible IS just a story, brought about by a group of people who chose Jesus, (who i believe was possibly a magician like David Blane) to be there hero....just like superman.
It will never be proved to be just a story, as the powers that created it have followers who will never wain in their beliefs...and hey..if it comforts them or gives them purpose in life..where's the harm...but it has caused more wars than any other subject.
I prefer to side with the scientists who have proven evidence of evolution....as opposed to the bibliographers who have only showed possibilities of existence.
Saffy100
martin macdonald
05-Nov-06, 16:34
ive read all the replies in the thread. all so differend yet all so sincere.let me add my tuppence worth.i am a christian not always so, infact i was an athiest for a long time. untill i read the bible. i said then i still say today that no man could have devised such a great book.:Razz
Dreadnought
05-Nov-06, 16:38
i said then i still say today that no man could have devised such a great book.:Razz
Oh I dunno... Tolkien had a pretty good stab at it with the Silmarillion.
Since a lot of the major religions are based on the old testament - no, I don't think they would be laughing!
Actually, the OT and the NT is a plaguarisation of other religions. Many of the miracles that were performed by Jesus, Moses et al can be traced back to the religion of the pagans, Egyptians, and Sumerians. Even the notion of polytheism, with the Trinity and Saints etc.
You could say loosely that the Christian and Jewish world is still worshipping Osiris and Isis, what's in a name? [lol]
Nevertheless, it is true. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all originate from the original religion of Abraham.
True, definitely. But saying so in the wrong place can put you right in the middle of a Family Dispute and that's always a bit risky!" :)
Unfortunately that is one particular truth that unfortunately becomes lost.
It's like relatives who just don't speak any more. When you pin one of them in a corner and force a confession out of them about the reason you discover the reason has been completely forgotten.
The only reason that the still don't speak is that they are absolutely certain that the reason must be so diabolical that they should never speak again!
oldmarine
06-Nov-06, 04:51
Steady, Rheghead, that's a bit dangerous even for me. Such talk could start World War Three! :lol:
Jaws you may be on to something there. In fact, I believe that Islam is close to starting WWIII if things continue to go as they have been going.
Dreadnought
06-Nov-06, 09:15
Jaws you may be on to something there. In fact, I believe that Islam is close to starting WWIII if things continue to go as they have been going.
I don't. I believe the US and its idiotic President are.
Ok, so can someone tell me how on earth Adam and Eve were supposed to have started mankind.......Did'nt they have two sons...and even if they had a daughter...would that not have been either incest or child abuse !!!!!
Read the old testament. It's full of incest. And Adam and Eve had many children, Cain and Able were just the first. and anyway, who said it was meant to be taken literally?
What about all the archaeological finds that have shown different stages in human and animal evolution!!
Saffy100
They've never found the missing link!
They've never found the missing link!
Come on Katarina, use yer noggin. A missing link is basically called a gap in the fossil record, so if one day (as has already happened) we find a fossil hominid that fits into a mid point between two other established stages in human evolution then to the palaeontologists we have come closer to understanding human evolution. To a creationist, the fossil finders have created two more missing links or gaps in the fossil record either side of the fossil in question that needs to be found, for them to be convinced in evolution. So palaeontologists are on a loser which falls into the hands of the evangalist's rhetoric.
Read the old testament. It's full of incest. And Adam and Eve had many children, Cain and Able were just the first. and anyway, who said it was meant to be taken literally?
They've never found the missing link!
So the point is what?......that the Bible shouldn't be taken literally...ok...so its a good book to live by...!!..full of incest!!!.....they had many children...doesn't matter how many children there were...it's still incest or abuse...whether number one or number nine!!
I know everyone has there own interpretation....this was simply my view.
Missing link or no missing link....the FACT is that this is evidence that species have EVOLVED not created.
saffygirl
Dreadnought
06-Nov-06, 10:54
... and anyway, who said it was meant to be taken literally?
People like Pastor Ted Hagard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmNjfpoRZpE&eurl=), leader of 30,000,000 evangelical christians in the US. Although he seems to have now gone the way of most extremely pious people (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6119226.stm)... in reality they are all 'do as i say, not as I do' hypocrites.
They've never found the missing link!
I thought the missing link ape/caveman wore the number 8 shirt for Manchester United...
Tom Cornwall
07-Nov-06, 01:05
what about the stuff that the Vatican is supposed to be holding, because perhaps it didn't fit in with the stuff they were trying to get across. The new testament was written many years after what supposedly happened, so that may have been changed by time and peoples memory. I always have arguments with the Mormons who come around the door. If you argue with them and put up a good argument, they always go away.
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